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The NationStates Feminist Thread III

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:41 pm

https://archive.is/9mxeK

Mothers interact more vocally with daughters than with sons.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/boys-do ... -1.4693208

Mothers, but not fathers, encourage boys to suppress emotions.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00670/full

Mothers talk more about emotions with daughters than sons and use more emotional vocabulary words.

https://academic.oup.com/jpepsy/article ... 56/2579803

After a trip to the emergency room, parents are four times more likely to caution a daughter against the same activity again than to caution their son.
The same study shows that parents offer directives (orders) to boys to accomplish tasks, while offering girls detailed explainations of the task.

https://archive.is/fIAjn

Colleged aged women prefer men who talk the least, use the least number of words, and use shorter words.


Dr. Tronick notes that canadian mothers curtail the emotional expression of male infants far more so than female infants, and this is achieved through physical withdrawal from the infant. (They set crying baby boys down more often and more quickly than girls, for instance.). This aligns with the more active form in the Indian "Boys must be beaten" study, which found mothers and female teachers believed they should beat male children when they show emotion, because emotion in boys is a sign they will grow up to be violent men. (I.E, if your boy is sad or angry, you need to punish them. This also applies if the boys are laughing or having fun by roughhousing, as usual punishing boys for not being girls, whom are treated as default.). They steadfastly rejected the idea that men should beat boys, or that girls should be beaten.

https://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/view ... 0beaten%22

The problem is, and has always been, gynocentrism and womens distrust and hatred of men. Blaming the damage women do to their infants on patriarchy is a way of them avoiding responsibility and confronting the harm they have done and its impacts on society.

Bordering on gender separatist, but I perhaps think primary custody should be afford on the basis of gender, and don't really believe single mothers are fit to raise male children except in exceptional circumstances.

The reason fatherlessness is a problem is that it's akin to removing the only non-destructive influence on the boys psychology from the household in most cases. Moreover, studies have shown that without a father, girls grow up to become less empathetic and more selfish. (Suggesting that selflessness and empathy arise from male influence.).

Feminism is a series of rationalizations, excuses, and frameworks to avoid confronting reality and present women with an alternative to taking responsibility and bettering themselves. They often choose to believe it because the alternative is confronting their privilege, while feminism offers a convenient set of ideas that benefit them, and so they are more receptive to them. (Much like how historically, people who sailed around the world to sell goods were very enthusiastic about the ideology of free trade when it was articulated as an alternative to mercantilism and believed it far more than people in workshops did.) In much the same way as one could cling to, for instance, an anarcho-capitalist worldview in order to justify and ignore the problems caused by anarcho-capitalism by simply referring back to the moral justifications and excuses for the harm it causes ("I don't want poor people to suffer, they just need to work harder" and so on and so on), feminism is a series of rationalizations, excuses, justifications and so on for women to ignore the harm they have done and continue to do, as well as warrant for further harm. The application of the framework resulting in worse outcomes for males and an escalating level of female privilege is the only measure by which it should be judged, not by its own internal justifications and rationalizations.

Male feminists, whole different topic. (See that mensrights thread where we shake our heads sadly at menslib talking about how feminist spaces mess with male feminists psychology but that's their fault for being too misogynist).
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:04 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:27 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:Which is to say, I dominate them against their will, control every aspect of their existence, and while I'm not using them, I keep them in a little corner somewhere where they won't bother me much.

I mean I am an introvert.
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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:04 am

Albrenia wrote:
Forsher wrote:Why was this thread gravedug for a completely unnecessary comment? Why after more than a week did that get a response?

Let this useless piece of trash thread die, guys. That the mods have this perverse interest in keeping it alive doesn't mean we have to be stupid enough to bend to their will.

The relationship of organised religion to feminism and/or women ought to be its own completely separate thread. That kind of topic is something more than the half a dozen people who post in this thread are interested in.


Teeechnically it's not gravedigging if it's only been one week. :p


That wasn't the gravedig.
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Riria
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Postby Riria » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:58 am

Forsher wrote:The relationship of organised religion to feminism and/or women ought to be its own completely separate thread. That kind of topic is something more than the half a dozen people who post in this thread are interested in.


I fully support this initiative while at the same time being too lazy to be the OP of that thread myself.
Last edited by Riria on Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Auze » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:27 pm

Just 50 pages left until this thread can finally be put down like a horse with 3 broken legs.
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Postby Albrenia » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:43 pm

Auze wrote:Just 50 pages left until this thread can finally be put down like a horse with 3 broken legs.


A lot of people really dislike this thread, eh?

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:02 am

Neanderthaland wrote:
Sundiata wrote:This thread reminds me of the lovely women of my parish community.

There's something about a relationship with Christ that makes a woman glow. Anyway, I think that the best guarantor of women's rights is the influence of the Catholic Church. The church has opposed divorce, polygamy, and female objectification for centuries. The church is a friend of women.

In the same way in which I am a friend to my pokemon.

Which is to say, I dominate them against their will, control every aspect of their existence, and while I'm not using them, I keep them in a little corner somewhere where they won't bother me much.


He's getting a self-satisfied, exalted halo each time he posts that.
Last edited by Nakena on Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:29 am

Sundiata wrote:This thread reminds me of the lovely women of my parish community.

There's something about a relationship with Christ that makes a woman glow. Anyway, I think that the best guarantor of women's rights is the influence of the Catholic Church. The church has opposed divorce, polygamy, and female objectification for centuries. The church is a friend of women.

Firstly, in what way does the Catholic Church oppose divorce and how does divorce hurt women in particular? Secondly, in what way does the Catholic Church oppose female objectification?
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:02 am

Albrenia wrote:
Auze wrote:Just 50 pages left until this thread can finally be put down like a horse with 3 broken legs.


A lot of people really dislike this thread, eh?

People don't like it when a topic is not a mere echo chamber.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:28 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Sundiata wrote:This thread reminds me of the lovely women of my parish community.

There's something about a relationship with Christ that makes a woman glow. Anyway, I think that the best guarantor of women's rights is the influence of the Catholic Church. The church has opposed divorce, polygamy, and female objectification for centuries. The church is a friend of women.

Firstly, in what way does the Catholic Church oppose divorce and how does divorce hurt women in particular? Secondly, in what way does the Catholic Church oppose female objectification?

The church doesn't consider divorce valid because a sacramental marriage between a man and woman properly done can't be undone.

Women are typically left with less wealth after divorce than they were in marriage. Imagine then what the fate is of the world's poorest women. Then think of the impact upon her soul. The church encourages married couples to work through difficulties in virtue rather than abandon their cross.

However, the church does allow "marriages" to be annulled if the sacrament wasn't performed or performed wrongly. The church opposes female objectification by encouraging men and women to chastity.
Last edited by Sundiata on Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Auze
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Postby Auze » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:38 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
A lot of people really dislike this thread, eh?

People don't like it when a topic is not a mere echo chamber.

I dislike it more because the thread is for the most part vestigial, though I'm glad that it is not an echo chamber. There just isn't much left to discuss, and the thread series will most likely die with this one. It is just too inactive to even be reliable entertainment, and there isn't much of a feminist or MRA presence on NSG for that much interesting debate to happen more often than once in a while.
Hello, I'm an Latter-day Saint kid from South Carolina!
In case you're wondering, it's pronounced ['ɑ.ziː].
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:39 am

Auze wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:People don't like it when a topic is not a mere echo chamber.

I dislike it more because the thread is for the most part vestigial, though I'm glad that it is not an echo chamber. There just isn't much left to discuss, and the thread series will most likely die with this one. It is just too inactive to even be reliable entertainment, and there isn't much of a feminist or MRA presence on NSG for that much interesting debate to happen more often than once in a while.

I walk back what I said then.

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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:17 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
A lot of people really dislike this thread, eh?

People don't like it when a topic is not a mere echo chamber.


This thread practically defines echo chamber.

The problem with it is that it serves to hide away all sorts of interesting topics that go no-where because exactly the same people talk about it. The only reason why it doesn't consist of everyone going "yeah, that's what I think" is that Ostro and/or Costa occasionally say something completely insane... which is why we've spent way too much time talking about the validity of comparing Nazism and feminism.

If you're lucky Chess comes along and says something, but this thread's a complete waste of space that should never have been unlocked. Given that we've had three incarnations and all of them have had this exact character it's remarkable we made this one, actually. Although, it must be said this version has been even more stop start.

Feminist threads on NSG used to be actually interesting: exciting and dynamic threads with an evolving collection of people and perspectives. Yeah, sure, some of them were... extremely toxic but NSG at the time was more toxic as a whole then.

I mean, we're coming up to the third year anniversary of this thread. Three years for a megathread!? It's a classic demonstration that this should never have been a megathread to start with.

Correction... actually, the first thread lasted only a couple of months. But the second lasted fifteen months so I stand by that characterisation.

FFS this thread was locked for two whole months. And should have been locked the other week but, as I said, it's got friends in high places. Ridiculous that people who don't ever post in this thread. who refuse to post in it actually, and offered no evidence for their claims were able to get it unlocked.

And before anyone gets touchy... I've been here since iteration 1.
Last edited by Forsher on Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Stop making shit up, though. Links, or it's a God-damn lie and you know it.

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We won't know until 2053 when it'll be really obvious what he should've done. [...] We have no option but to guess.

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Riria
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Postby Riria » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:25 am

We could always donate to get it blocked again no :rofl:
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NS stats used, except population is 20 mil.
Freedom is the second greatest value. The first is whatever works best.

"All I know is that I know nothing." - beta Socratic mindset
"I will stay true to my beliefs to the bitter end." - beta Conservative mindset
"I WILL draw conclusions given the data available, but I am willing to update my beliefs when provided new information." - chad Bayesian mindset

The most prevalent cognitive bias of our times is the Golden Mean Fallacy.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can convince me that I deserved it.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:17 pm

Like many feminists, the church also opposes pornography.

Porn kills love. It promotes unrealistic and degrading expectations of sex, relationships, and women's bodies. It should be gotten rid of altogether, made illegal.

The Catholic Church is a friend of women.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:20 pm

Sundiata wrote:Like many feminists, the church also opposes pornography.

Porn kills love. It promotes unrealistic and degrading expectations of sex, relationships, and women's bodies. It should be gotten rid of altogether, made illegal.


I worked in the industry.

It's not supposed to be real.

Sundiata wrote:The Catholic Church is a friend of women.


:roll:

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Postby Hirota » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:59 pm

Sundiata wrote:The Catholic Church is a friend of women.
If the Catholic Church is a friend to women, it's one of those really creepy friends who seems to spend far too much time obsessing over what does or doesn't come out of their vagina.
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Postby Third ZSeparatists » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:01 pm

Hirota wrote:
Sundiata wrote:The Catholic Church is a friend of women.
If the Catholic Church is a friend to women, it's one of those really creepy friends who seems to spend far too much time obsessing over what does or doesn't come out of their vagina.


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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:35 pm

Nakena wrote:I worked in the industry.

Whatever you may or may not have done in the past, God loves you. That said, he's seeking your love too. It's not too late to reciprocate.
Last edited by Sundiata on Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:37 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Nakena wrote:I worked in the industry.

Whatever you may or may not have done in the past, God loves you. That being said, he's seeking your love too. It's never too late to reciprocate.

Awfully presumptive of you to assume they have not. Judgmental much?
Last edited by Neanderthaland on Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:45 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Whatever you may or may not have done in the past, God loves you. That being said, he's seeking your love too. It's never too late to reciprocate.

Awfully presumptive of you to assume they have not. Judgmental much?

Judgemental? No, I definitely have my own sins to confess. There are times I think I should have suffered on that cross in his place.
Last edited by Sundiata on Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:47 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Awfully presumptive of you to assume they have not. Judgmental much?

Judgemental? No, I definitely have my own sins to confess. There are times I think I should have suffered on that cross.


:blink:

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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:53 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Awfully presumptive of you to assume they have not. Judgmental much?

Judgemental? No, I definitely have my own sins to confess. There are times I think I should have suffered on that cross.

Well good for you, but the rest of us don't appreciate this, "you're soooo awful, but god loves you!" routine.
Ug make fire. Mod ban Ug.

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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:55 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Judgemental? No, I definitely have my own sins to confess. There are times I think I should have suffered on that cross.

Well good for you, but the rest of us don't appreciate this, "you're soooo awful, but god loves you!" routine.


Particularly if that love comes loaded with threats of eternal torture to those who don't reciprocate.

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Postby Luminesa » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:00 pm

Albrenia wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Judgemental? No, I definitely have my own sins to confess. There are times I think I should have suffered on that cross.


:blink:

He's not saying that he wants to be crucified, but rather he feels sometimes his sins should have garnered his death in the place of Jesus. I feel agony at my own sinfulness at times, when I think of what good Jesus has done in my life. And I am very lucky that He has blessed me as He has. But no, he's not saying he wishes to be crucified, if that's what you're thinking.
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