The NationStates Feminist Thread III

[The Huskar Social Union]

Wow, I just read her Polygon interview, and she doesn’t even recognize she did anything sexist and wrong.

Company statement was reasonable, but it was prepared by a lawyer - I can tell.

She went off on a complete tangent on someone for no justified reason and then tried to take a sexist defense with it, i read that guys tweets, there was nothing in it trying to tell her how to do her job, he was just discussing and commenting on an aspect of character development. She deserved to be fired for creating such a PR nightmare for that company and she was in the wrong.

edit: And he did it in a very respectful way as well, he even said he appreciated her thread and everything else she said.

[Neutraligon]

Wow, I just read her Polygon interview, and she doesn’t even recognize she did anything sexist and wrong.

Company statement was reasonable, but it was prepared by a lawyer - I can tell.

She went off on a complete tangent on someone for no justified reason and then tried to take a sexist defense with it, i read that guys tweets, there was nothing in it trying to tell her how to do her job, he was just discussing and commenting on an aspect of character development. She deserved to be fired for creating such a PR nightmare for that company and she was in the wrong.

edit: And he did it in a very respectful way as well, he even said he appreciated her thread and everything else she said.

Previously Derior was raving about her (as in he really liked her stuff). He even tried to back off, it was Jessica who kept bringing it back up, over and over again. She has attempted to make this into an industry issue by the way.

[The Huskar Social Union]

She went off on a complete tangent on someone for no justified reason and then tried to take a sexist defense with it, i read that guys tweets, there was nothing in it trying to tell her how to do her job, he was just discussing and commenting on an aspect of character development. She deserved to be fired for creating such a PR nightmare for that company and she was in the wrong.

edit: And he did it in a very respectful way as well, he even said he appreciated her thread and everything else she said.

Previously Derior was raving about her (as in he really liked her stuff). He even tried to back off, it was Jessica who kept bringing it back up, over and over again. She has attempted to make this into an industry issue by the way.

Yeah, he seemed to be a big fan of hers and the team she was a part of, she was completely in the wrong to go at him like that, even if it ws the build up of a lot of pent up rage and frustration, he was not the target that she should have went after. And then trying to turn it around as an example of sexism in the industry against women was just bollocks, nothing that man said was sexist.

[The New Sea Territory]

Some great news in UK for women's rights: Jeremy Corbyn, there are good chances that he'll be pm in the next years, has changed his position about prostitution and he's now backing the Nordic Model

Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn declared his full support for Britain to look at changing our prostitution laws by criminalising the purchase of sex, also referred to as the ‘Nordic model’.

In an interview with Sophie Ridge on Sky, Corbyn said the Government should look to Sweden and other countries where they have successfully brought in laws that make buying sex illegal.

He said: “The Nordic model essentially moves the blame and responsibility onto those promoting the sex industry rather than those that are working in it and I think that’s a direction we should think about going.”

Sweden was the first country to adopt this approach and since then Norway, Iceland, Canada, Northern Ireland, France and the Republic of Ireland have all followed suit.

Evidence from Sweden shows that the law has been successful in driving down demand for paid sex making the country a far more hostile place for traffickers.

Corbyn also highlighted the need to support women who have been sexually exploited through prostitution: “There are women who have been criminalised… because they’ve been… into prostitution and grotesquely exploited, they’re not criminals they’re victims.”

For women wanting to leave prostitution the process is rarely easy. Many have a criminal record and finding new employment is difficult. Funding services that provide them with support and the tools they need to rebuild their lives is a vital way of helping them make a clean break.

Corbyn’s comments coincide with a recent debate in Westminster last week where MPs from across the House told the Government that paying for sex should be made illegal in Britain.

Sources:
https://www.feministcurrent.com/2018/07 ... dic-model/
https://care.org.uk/news/latest-news/co ... ploitation

How will criminalizing the purchase of sex, as opposed to sex work altogether, not still worsen the conditions of sex workers? In what ways is this a better alternative to, say, decriminalized sex work with strong unionization and the ability for sex workers to collectively bargain?

[The New Sea Territory]

Feminists are inherently bourgeois and self-centered as they seek equality with men, when we know the genders are biologically different.

Looks like you've never heard of Marxist feminism. Look at Anuradha Ghandy, a member of the guerrilla group in India called the Communist Party of India (Maoist) aka the Naxalites, who are thoroughly a working class and peasant movement. She wrote a lot about women's liberation and tried to put these ideas into practice.

Similar things can be seen by the PKK in Kurdistan and the PYD in Rojava, which have made women's liberation an integral part of their broader working-class Kurdish revolution.

[Torrocca]

Feminists are inherently bourgeois and self-centered as they seek equality with men, when we know the genders are biologically different.

Y'know, I'm almost surprised to see a pro-Fascist Nationalist use leftist terminology to paint Feminists as their enemy and to peddle a sexist idea that women can't be equal to men just because they're biologically different.

Almost.

[Zapato]

Anyone paying attention to the Jessica Price incident (gaming)

ArenaNet was right to react, because her tweets were out of line. Their reaction, however, was disproportionate.

And they fired Peter Fries for absolutely no reason.

In fact, this should be known as the "Peter Fries incident", because ANet fucked up royally. I wouldn't be surprised if other devs are making plans to leave now.

The fact that they're now effectively held hostage by their own fans (I'm no longer among that particular group) is their own problem of their own making.

---

[Proctopeo]

Some great news in UK for women's rights: Jeremy Corbyn, there are good chances that he'll be pm in the next years, has changed his position about prostitution and he's now backing the Nordic Model



Sources:
https://www.feministcurrent.com/2018/07 ... dic-model/
https://care.org.uk/news/latest-news/co ... ploitation

How will criminalizing the purchase of sex, as opposed to sex work altogether, not still worsen the conditions of sex workers? In what ways is this a better alternative to, say, decriminalized sex work with strong unionization and the ability for sex workers to collectively bargain?

Honestly, that's a far better solution, especially if you're going to claim to be about "women's rights". At least try to pretend.

[Petrasylvania]

Anyone paying attention to the Jessica Price incident (gaming)

ArenaNet was right to react, because her tweets were out of line. Their reaction, however, was disproportionate.

And they fired Peter Fries for absolutely no reason.

In fact, this should be known as the "Peter Fries incident", because ANet fucked up royally. I wouldn't be surprised if other devs are making plans to leave now.

The fact that they're now effectively held hostage by their own fans (I'm no longer among that particular group) is their own problem of their own making.

---

Fries tried to stand up for Price, which makes him a gender traitor obviously.

[Hirota]

Anyone paying attention to the Jessica Price incident (gaming)

ArenaNet was right to react, because her tweets were out of line. Their reaction, however, was disproportionate.

And they fired Peter Fries for absolutely no reason.

In fact, this should be known as the "Peter Fries incident", because ANet fucked up royally. I wouldn't be surprised if other devs are making plans to leave now.

The fact that they're now effectively held hostage by their own fans (I'm no longer among that particular group) is their own problem of their own making.

---

For proper context, the post and it's -4 status on Reddit before it was deleted.

https://www.removeddit.com/r/Guildwars2 ... an/e1vnkwr

The "fans" collectively did not hold that position,as evidenced by the voting position of disagreement.

It's probably not voted down further as negative karma posts are often hidden. We also do not know how long the post was up before being deleted.

Edit: turns out it was a troll post trying to get enough people to bite to show the world how supposedly shitty they are

http://archive.is/UIZ5N

Of course, did that matter for the gaming press and the people who believe then? Doubt it, see if zapato responds ;-)

[Galloism]

ArenaNet was right to react, because her tweets were out of line. Their reaction, however, was disproportionate.

And they fired Peter Fries for absolutely no reason.

In fact, this should be known as the "Peter Fries incident", because ANet fucked up royally. I wouldn't be surprised if other devs are making plans to leave now.

The fact that they're now effectively held hostage by their own fans (I'm no longer among that particular group) is their own problem of their own making.

---

Fries tried to stand up for Price, which makes him a gender traitor obviously.

Well, it’s hard to tell from the news whether he was defending her sexist customer hating aggressive tweets, or trying to defend her from the backlash therefrom.

The former is implicitly or explicitly endorsing the hateful sexist speech she engaged in, while the latter is not. That would necessarily imply two different actions.

I probably wouldn’t wholesale fire either one, but I’d require her to apologize for her sexist remarks to keep her job, and depending on exactly what Fries did, it might also be appropriate to do the same, or it might not be. I can’t say for sure. No one is quoting what he did. Very few even quote her.

[Zapato]

ArenaNet was right to react, because her tweets were out of line. Their reaction, however, was disproportionate.

And they fired Peter Fries for absolutely no reason.

In fact, this should be known as the "Peter Fries incident", because ANet fucked up royally. I wouldn't be surprised if other devs are making plans to leave now.

The fact that they're now effectively held hostage by their own fans (I'm no longer among that particular group) is their own problem of their own making.

---

For proper context, the post and it's -4 status on Reddit before it was deleted.

https://www.removeddit.com/r/Guildwars2 ... an/e1vnkwr

The "fans" collectively did not hold that position,as evidenced by the voting position of disagreement.

It's probably not voted down further as negative karma posts are often hidden. We also do not know how long the post was up before being deleted.

Edit: turns out it was a troll post trying to get enough people to bite to show the world how supposedly shitty they are

http://archive.is/UIZ5N

Of course, did that matter for the gaming press and the people who believe then? Doubt it, see if zapato responds ;-)

Thanks for the info. I won't delete what I wrote before, so the context shows I was wrong.

That doesn't change the main point of my post however.

[Zapato]

Fries tried to stand up for Price, which makes him a gender traitor obviously.

Well, it’s hard to tell from the news whether he was defending her sexist customer hating aggressive tweets, or trying to defend her from the backlash therefrom.

The former is implicitly or explicitly endorsing the hateful sexist speech she engaged in, while the latter is not. That would necessarily imply two different actions.

I probably wouldn’t wholesale fire either one, but I’d require her to apologize for her sexist remarks to keep her job, and depending on exactly what Fries did, it might also be appropriate to do the same, or it might not be. I can’t say for sure. No one is quoting what he did. Very few even quote her.

https://archive.fo/CQ5BB#selection-5631.0-5631.97

[Hirota]

For proper context, the post and it's -4 status on Reddit before it was deleted.

https://www.removeddit.com/r/Guildwars2 ... an/e1vnkwr

The "fans" collectively did not hold that position,as evidenced by the voting position of disagreement.

It's probably not voted down further as negative karma posts are often hidden. We also do not know how long the post was up before being deleted.

Edit: turns out it was a troll post trying to get enough people to bite to show the world how supposedly shitty they are

http://archive.is/UIZ5N

Of course, did that matter for the gaming press and the people who believe then? Doubt it, see if zapato responds ;-)

Thanks for the info. I won't delete what I wrote before, so the context shows I was wrong.

That doesn't change the main point of my post however.

To be clear, my criticism is directed at your naivety in believing the press journos. You are not the only one I'm sure :-)

Of course, you should be asking yourself if the mainstream gaming media is caught spreading an obvious our like this I can source as false in a few minutes, what else have they lied about?

And for the record, I also do not believe they should have been fired, but rather made to apologise, much like Gallo said.

[Zapato]

Thanks for the info. I won't delete what I wrote before, so the context shows I was wrong.

That doesn't change the main point of my post however.

To be clear, my criticism is directed at your naivety in believing the press journos. You are not the only one I'm sure :-)

Sorry, but my error was of my own making. I didn't get the screenshot from any journalists, but from a gamer on Twitter.

[Galloism]

Well, it’s hard to tell from the news whether he was defending her sexist customer hating aggressive tweets, or trying to defend her from the backlash therefrom.

The former is implicitly or explicitly endorsing the hateful sexist speech she engaged in, while the latter is not. That would necessarily imply two different actions.

I probably wouldn’t wholesale fire either one, but I’d require her to apologize for her sexist remarks to keep her job, and depending on exactly what Fries did, it might also be appropriate to do the same, or it might not be. I can’t say for sure. No one is quoting what he did. Very few even quote her.

https://archive.fo/CQ5BB#selection-5631.0-5631.97

Seems pretty mild based on the sample you gave me. I also liked how he gave a good, succinct, rational response to the same criticism she flipped out on. Even though he was in his backyard on his day off.

See, if she had done that in the beginning, or maybe didn't answer at all, there would be no issue now. But, instead,

Anyway, based on the sample you showed me, I'd probably talk with him about cognitive biases and how men tend to dismiss slights against them while not doing the same for slights against women, and it's very hard to determine if men or women really have it worse because of these social biases, and to think a little harder before wading in, but ultimately, we value you as an employee and we really need you to finish <that project>.

[Conserative Morality]

Wow, I just read her Polygon interview, and she doesn’t even recognize she did anything sexist and wrong.

Company statement was reasonable, but it was prepared by a lawyer - I can tell.

"God, it's so sexist to be called out"

Never change.

[Galloism]

Wow, I just read her Polygon interview, and she doesn’t even recognize she did anything sexist and wrong.

Company statement was reasonable, but it was prepared by a lawyer - I can tell.

"God, it's so sexist to be called out"

Never change.

She didn't "call him out" for being sexist. He approached her in an eminently reasonable manner in response to her complaint that there seems to be "no way" to do something, whereupon he suggested a way. Dude's a huge fan, and a feminist, trying to help, and here's her tweets that raised the ire (which she doesn't even have the sense of shame to delete):

Today in being a female game dev:

"Allow me--a person who does not work with you--explain to you how you do your job."

like, the next rando asshat who attempts to explain the concept of branching dialogue to me--as if, you know, having worked in game narrative for a fucking DECADE, I have never heard of it--is getting instablocked. PSA.

Since we've got a lot of hurt manfeels today, lemme make something clear: this is my feed. I'm not on the clock here. I'm not your emotional courtesan just because I'm a dev. Don't expect me to pretend to like you here.

Where she argued that a dedicated fan, and customer, is a "rando asshat", that feelings don't matter as long as they come from men, and that she only pretends to like them when she's on the clock because she's getting paid. That's a damn good way to get fired - to flat out tell the customer that even when you're at the office, you don't give one fucking shit about them, and argue that because they're men their feelings literally don't matter due to having a penis.

That's not calling someone out. That's being sexist and blowing up your own job by telling the customers they don't matter.

[Conserative Morality]

"God, it's so sexist to be called out"

Never change.

She didn't "call him out" for being sexist. He approached her in an eminently reasonable manner in response to her complaint that there seems to be "no way" to do something, whereupon he suggested a way. Dude's a huge fan, and a feminist, trying to help, and here's her tweets that raised the ire (which she doesn't even have the sense of shame to delete):

Today in being a female game dev:

"Allow me--a person who does not work with you--explain to you how you do your job."

like, the next rando asshat who attempts to explain the concept of branching dialogue to me--as if, you know, having worked in game narrative for a fucking DECADE, I have never heard of it--is getting instablocked. PSA.

Since we've got a lot of hurt manfeels today, lemme make something clear: this is my feed. I'm not on the clock here. I'm not your emotional courtesan just because I'm a dev. Don't expect me to pretend to like you here.

Where she argued that a dedicated fan, and customer, is a "rando asshat", that feelings don't matter as long as they come from men, and that she only pretends to like them when she's on the clock because she's getting paid. That's a damn good way to get fired - to flat out tell the customer that even when you're at the office, you don't give one fucking shit about them, and argue that because they're men their feelings literally don't matter due to having a penis.

That's not calling someone out. That's being sexist and blowing up your own job by telling the customers they don't matter.

Wow, that's quite a stretch of the English language. Anything to be a victim, huh?

I'll never understand how you lot can be so thin-skinned. It's like dealing with Trump.

[Galloism]

She didn't "call him out" for being sexist. He approached her in an eminently reasonable manner in response to her complaint that there seems to be "no way" to do something, whereupon he suggested a way. Dude's a huge fan, and a feminist, trying to help, and here's her tweets that raised the ire (which she doesn't even have the sense of shame to delete):



Where she argued that a dedicated fan, and customer, is a "rando asshat", that feelings don't matter as long as they come from men, and that she only pretends to like them when she's on the clock because she's getting paid. That's a damn good way to get fired - to flat out tell the customer that even when you're at the office, you don't give one fucking shit about them, and argue that because they're men their feelings literally don't matter due to having a penis.

That's not calling someone out. That's being sexist and blowing up your own job by telling the customers they don't matter.

Wow, that's quite a stretch of the English language.

It's exactly what she said. Verbatim.

Anything to be a victim, huh?

That's her mantra yes. She did this to herself. If I had an employee, with my company's name in their twitter, and thousands of followers who follow them BECAUSE of my company name being in their twitter, go out in public and scream on twitter that "I'm off the clock so I don't have to pretend you matter" (implying that you're only pretending when you're ON the clock to boot) and hurl sexist slurs everywhere, we'd be having a very strong discussion, at the minimum, about what it means to maintain a positive company image.

I'd definitely call in HR on this one too. It's bad enough to warrant a visit from HR.

I'll never understand how you lot can be so thin-skinned. It's like dealing with Trump.

I despise sexism. It's a thing. Sorry that upsets you.

EDIT: What's more, I am disappointed you're ok with it. I thought you wanted to eliminate sexism.

EDIT2: I wanted to expand on the "your feelings don't matter because you're a man" thing, as that may be not obvious to everyone. "Manfeelz" is a sexist term to attempt to trap men into heternormative assumptions of masculinity regarding stoicism - namely, that no matter what happens, you should never, ever be upset about it because you're a man. If you ever DO get upset over something, or even point out 'it's not right', especially if it was a woman who took the action, then you need to buck up, grow a pair, "man up", and stop engaging in "manfeelz". If you don't do that, you lose all right to any sympathy or any action because you dared to complain. This is a social trend - when a man asks for help, he loses all right to it. When a man shows feelings (outside of very particular "allowable" cases, like losing a spouse or a comrade in arms), he loses all rights to have them.

[Philjia]

Some great news in UK for women's rights: Jeremy Corbyn, there are good chances that he'll be pm in the next years, has changed his position about prostitution and he's now backing the Nordic Model

Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn declared his full support for Britain to look at changing our prostitution laws by criminalising the purchase of sex, also referred to as the ‘Nordic model’.

In an interview with Sophie Ridge on Sky, Corbyn said the Government should look to Sweden and other countries where they have successfully brought in laws that make buying sex illegal.

He said: “The Nordic model essentially moves the blame and responsibility onto those promoting the sex industry rather than those that are working in it and I think that’s a direction we should think about going.”

Sweden was the first country to adopt this approach and since then Norway, Iceland, Canada, Northern Ireland, France and the Republic of Ireland have all followed suit.

Evidence from Sweden shows that the law has been successful in driving down demand for paid sex making the country a far more hostile place for traffickers.

Corbyn also highlighted the need to support women who have been sexually exploited through prostitution: “There are women who have been criminalised… because they’ve been… into prostitution and grotesquely exploited, they’re not criminals they’re victims.”

For women wanting to leave prostitution the process is rarely easy. Many have a criminal record and finding new employment is difficult. Funding services that provide them with support and the tools they need to rebuild their lives is a vital way of helping them make a clean break.

Corbyn’s comments coincide with a recent debate in Westminster last week where MPs from across the House told the Government that paying for sex should be made illegal in Britain.

Sources:
https://www.feministcurrent.com/2018/07 ... dic-model/
https://care.org.uk/news/latest-news/co ... ploitation

Glad I'm supporting the much more liberal greens, who recognise that the nordic model is harmful to sex workers while purporting to support them, since they still have to conduct their business out of sight and mind of the public.

[The New Sea Territory]

Some great news in UK for women's rights: Jeremy Corbyn, there are good chances that he'll be pm in the next years, has changed his position about prostitution and he's now backing the Nordic Model



Sources:
https://www.feministcurrent.com/2018/07 ... dic-model/
https://care.org.uk/news/latest-news/co ... ploitation

Glad I'm supporting the much more liberal greens, who recognise that the nordic model is harmful to sex workers while purporting to support them, since they still have to conduct their business out of sight and mind of the public.

Yeah, I think half-way criminalizing the industry still harms any worker attempts at organizing and collective bargaining.

The Nordic Model seems still really moralistic.

[Galloism]

Glad I'm supporting the much more liberal greens, who recognise that the nordic model is harmful to sex workers while purporting to support them, since they still have to conduct their business out of sight and mind of the public.

Yeah, I think half-way criminalizing the industry still harms any worker attempts at organizing and collective bargaining.

The Nordic Model seems still really moralistic.

I wonder if a prostitute union rep would be considered a pimp...

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Wow, I just read her Polygon interview, and she doesn’t even recognize she did anything sexist and wrong.

Company statement was reasonable, but it was prepared by a lawyer - I can tell.

She went off on a complete tangent on someone for no justified reason and then tried to take a sexist defense with it, i read that guys tweets, there was nothing in it trying to tell her how to do her job, he was just discussing and commenting on an aspect of character development. She deserved to be fired for creating such a PR nightmare for that company and she was in the wrong.

edit: And he did it in a very respectful way as well, he even said he appreciated her thread and everything else she said.

She truly deserved to get fired. In her expression, she pretty much said that the company she represents doesn't really care about the gamers's experiences or suggestions. Implied ''we just play pretend that we care about what you have to say when on the clock''. Even if she spoke about herself in that moment of unjustified anger, she lets others know, in her titles, publicly, that she is the developer of Guild Wars and works, therefore, for this company. What she said carried weight and the company can't have itself seen as one that doesn't care about its costumers. Particularly when its been around only for what, 4 years or so? She could have potentially put other people's jobs in that company at risk, if fans of Guild Wars were to take away their backing of the company by not buying the game.

I'll be the first to admit that she has gotten unjustified hate online too. However, this guy wasn't harassing her, wasn't insulting her, wasn't telling her how to do her job. He merely gave suggestions of things he, as a gamer, has seen and suggestions that, AFAIK, most game developer companies usually welcome.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Wow, that's quite a stretch of the English language. Anything to be a victim, huh?

I'll never understand how you lot can be so thin-skinned. It's like dealing with Trump.

I'll never understand how you lot jump at defending women even when they getting fired is deserved.

If I had an employee like that, she'd be fired the same day she made that post on whatever social platform she has.

You're not entitled to shit on my company's name and fuck with my sources of income just because you feel entitled as a liberal to shit on my clients "off the clock".