The NationStates Feminist Thread III

[Galloism]

Or rather, it's only part of the story.

Sort of like if you lived on an island and determined the world is a small piece of land surrounded by water. From your perspective you're not wrong, and that certainly is part of the world, but there's so much more to the world than that.

For that to be accurate you'd have to have another island clearly visible, off in the distance, and for them to routinely assert that's merely this island from behind, while also going apeshit and destroying any boat that attempts to sail to it.

Your analogy is too charitable.

Heh, well, not all of us can see the other island. You're being too harsh.

Here's the thing - I had the same ideological blind spot for many years, even for a few years after I was raped by that woman - I didn't KNOW it was rape for a woman to drug me and have sex with me while I didn't know what was going on. That's how strong the social blind spot is. You'd think I'd have at least recognized it as a crime of some sort, but I didn't - because I was told for many years that women don't do that and men don't suffer that, so even staring me in the face it wasn't recognizable.

One of things that I struggle with is how long I lived in that blind spot, and how many things I missed. And here I am, trying to point out the blind spot for others and... often I see them do the same things I did at first. Double down, refuse to accept the data, get angry and make excuses for why the original view was correct.

Some have dubbed this the backfire effect.

[Sernarbia]

The case in Israel was womens groups warning that the purposed bill could make it easier for men accused of rape to counter claim against their victims. The concerns are that the law will be misused, not that it it was purposed at ball. So your argument that feminists are pro rape falls flat on it's ass. Similar for India.

No, it's pro-rape.

Yeah, we're done here.

[Galloism]

No, it's pro-rape.

Yeah, we're done here.

Bye. Have fun hanging out with people who want to make sure rape isn't a crime when the "right" sort of people do it.

[Sernarbia]

Yeah, we're done here.

Bye. Have fun hanging out with people who want to make sure rape isn't a crime when the "right" sort of people do it.

Republicans? Nah, those guys suck.

[Galloism]

Bye. Have fun hanging out with people who want to make sure rape isn't a crime when the "right" sort of people do it.

Republicans? Nah, those guys suck.

I dislike the Republican party as much as the next guy, provided the next guy is Bernie Sanders. There's lots of reasons for that, and they mostly align with why I dislike feminism as a movement - reactionary and not interested in equality or equal protection of the law de facto.

[Giovenith]

Bye. Have fun hanging out with people who want to make sure rape isn't a crime when the "right" sort of people do it.

Republicans? Nah, those guys suck.

No, you.

When a person literally explains to you that they themselves are a rape victim and the actions you're defending prevents them from ever seeking justice, and your response is to backspace that entire explanation and cut it all down to a nebulous, unspecific assertion that you can just project whatever sort of meaning you want onto in order to avoid having to actually answer anything and instead rely on a self-righteous fail sassy act, feminism's reputation dies a little more.

So goodbye, so long, you are indeed most useful to the movement being "done here."

[Wysten]

Republicans? Nah, those guys suck.

No, you.

When a person literally explains to you that they themselves are a rape victim and the actions you're defending prevents them from ever seeking justice, and your response is to backspace that entire explanation and cut it all down to a nebulous, unspecific assertion that you can just project whatever sort of meaning you want onto in order to avoid having to actually answer anything and instead rely on a self-righteous fail sassy act, feminism's reputation dies a little more.

So goodbye, so long, you are indeed most useful to the movement being "done here."

Wait feminism still had a credible reputation?

[Giovenith]

No, you.

When a person literally explains to you that they themselves are a rape victim and the actions you're defending prevents them from ever seeking justice, and your response is to backspace that entire explanation and cut it all down to a nebulous, unspecific assertion that you can just project whatever sort of meaning you want onto in order to avoid having to actually answer anything and instead rely on a self-righteous fail sassy act, feminism's reputation dies a little more.

So goodbye, so long, you are indeed most useful to the movement being "done here."

Wait feminism still had a credible reputation?

Well you can kill a zombie, can't you?

[Luminesa]

Bye. Have fun hanging out with people who want to make sure rape isn't a crime when the "right" sort of people do it.

Republicans? Nah, those guys suck.

Incredibly clever and insightful comment about Israeli politics, tell me more about how Israeli Republicans want to keep those Israeli Democrats from passing laws about rape. And don’t forget to mention those Indian Republicans and how they are keeping the Indian Republicans from passing progressive anti-rape laws.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Some women have stupid views, therefore all feminists are evil and support rape.

It's not that some "stupid women" have stupid views.

Is that some "stupid women" make a large portion of the vocal discourse and are shaping the views on how we deal with many topics in regards of gender issues.

But of course, I am probably the only asshole anti-feminist misogynist noticing that. You, as a saint and an authority on all things feminism, probably know better.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Bye. Have fun hanging out with people who want to make sure rape isn't a crime when the "right" sort of people do it.

Republicans? Nah, those guys suck.

The partisanship is strong on this one.

Did you know that even your political rivals can be right at times, and you shouldn't judge ideas by the side saying it, but rather on its own merits?

Or did I forget to receive the memo in rhetoric and philosophy courses that the truth doesn't matter anymore as long as it is the right side saying it?

[Galloism]

Did you know that even your political rivals can be right at times, and you shouldn't judge ideas by the side saying it, but rather on its own merits?

This might be considered heresy nowadays. On many sides.

Or did I forget to receive the memo in rhetoric and philosophy courses that the truth doesn't matter anymore as long as it is the right side saying it?

Feelings are as important as facts.

[New Edom]

Republicans? Nah, those guys suck.

No, you.

When a person literally explains to you that they themselves are a rape victim and the actions you're defending prevents them from ever seeking justice, and your response is to backspace that entire explanation and cut it all down to a nebulous, unspecific assertion that you can just project whatever sort of meaning you want onto in order to avoid having to actually answer anything and instead rely on a self-righteous fail sassy act, feminism's reputation dies a little more.

So goodbye, so long, you are indeed most useful to the movement being "done here."

I imagine it is difficult to be a thoughtful feminist--much as it would have been difficult to be a thoughtful Christian during the revival craze from the 1980s to the early 2000s. Having some knowledge of what the ideology is about, familiar with its literature, only to have ignorant people rushing forward to show their zeal, egged on by more powerful zealots.

[Wysten]

No, you.

When a person literally explains to you that they themselves are a rape victim and the actions you're defending prevents them from ever seeking justice, and your response is to backspace that entire explanation and cut it all down to a nebulous, unspecific assertion that you can just project whatever sort of meaning you want onto in order to avoid having to actually answer anything and instead rely on a self-righteous fail sassy act, feminism's reputation dies a little more.

So goodbye, so long, you are indeed most useful to the movement being "done here."

I imagine it is difficult to be a thoughtful feminist--much as it would have been difficult to be a thoughtful Christian during the revival craze from the 1980s to the early 2000s. Having some knowledge of what the ideology is about, familiar with its literature, only to have ignorant people rushing forward to show their zeal, egged on by more powerful zealots.

thoughtful feminist are not feminist they are called egalitarians because they realize that both genders need some help.

[Giovenith]

Some women have stupid views, therefore all feminists are evil and support rape.

It's not that some "stupid women" have stupid views.

Is that some "stupid women" make a large portion of the vocal discourse and are shaping the views on how we deal with many topics in regards of gender issues.

But of course, I am probably the only asshole anti-feminist misogynist noticing that. You, as a saint and an authority on all things feminism, probably know better.

This is the part your post gets cut down to before being responded to with a snide "Yes you are!" and a victorious strut.

[Crysuko]

I imagine it is difficult to be a thoughtful feminist--much as it would have been difficult to be a thoughtful Christian during the revival craze from the 1980s to the early 2000s. Having some knowledge of what the ideology is about, familiar with its literature, only to have ignorant people rushing forward to show their zeal, egged on by more powerful zealots.

thoughtful feminist are not feminist they are called egalitarians because they realize that both genders need some help.

B-B-BUT MUH PATRIARCHY

[New Edom]

I imagine it is difficult to be a thoughtful feminist--much as it would have been difficult to be a thoughtful Christian during the revival craze from the 1980s to the early 2000s. Having some knowledge of what the ideology is about, familiar with its literature, only to have ignorant people rushing forward to show their zeal, egged on by more powerful zealots.

thoughtful feminist are not feminist they are called egalitarians because they realize that both genders need some help.

Well, certainly they get called out for being anti-feminist, rape apologists, etc. Idiot celebrities and corrupt journalists join in the hue and cry and further poison the well.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

It's not that some "stupid women" have stupid views.

Is that some "stupid women" make a large portion of the vocal discourse and are shaping the views on how we deal with many topics in regards of gender issues.

But of course, I am probably the only asshole anti-feminist misogynist noticing that. You, as a saint and an authority on all things feminism, probably know better.

This is the part your post gets cut down to before being responded to with a snide "Yes you are!" and a victorious strut.

Alright that made me laugh

[New Edom]

thoughtful feminist are not feminist they are called egalitarians because they realize that both genders need some help.

B-B-BUT MUH PATRIARCHY

What are you saying? Are you saying that there is fair discussion and debate when popular feminist assertions are challenged? Such as, for instance, the campus rape crisis hoax that the media got people stirred up about and which feminist activists and politicians insisted needed enormous funding and response? Or the blackballing of feminists who proposed different responses to concerns about sexual assault than urging awareness of rape culture?

It is interesting, isn't it, that one of the assertions of popular feminist leaders is 'believe women' but when women say things that are unpopular in the movement that they are treated as though they are liars and delusional? Are you saying that you find the treatment of such women acceptable?

[The Grene Knyght]

From the content of the recent posts, one could be forgiven for thinking (as many new posters seem to do) that this thread would be more aptly named the anti-feminist thread

[Giovenith]

thoughtful feminist are not feminist they are called egalitarians because they realize that both genders need some help.

Well, certainly they get called out for being anti-feminist, rape apologists, etc. Idiot celebrities and corrupt journalists join in the hue and cry and further poison the well.

We get called out for being moles sent out by the patriarchy to masquerade as the enemy and bring down feminism from within, which somehow feels more insulting to me, personally. Probably because the people doing so were the type of girls who rolled their eyes at me whenever I talked about feminism before going back to gabbing about hair and boys, up until we all went to college where suddenly they became all super-woke-enlightened and now want to lecture me like I'm the one who was living in the dark the whole time.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Well, certainly they get called out for being anti-feminist, rape apologists, etc. Idiot celebrities and corrupt journalists join in the hue and cry and further poison the well.

We get called out for being moles sent out by the patriarchy to masquerade as the enemy and bring down feminism from within, which somehow feels more insulting to me, personally. Probably because the people doing so were the type of girls who rolled their eyes at me whenever I talked about feminism before going back to gabbing about hair and boys, up until we all went to college where suddenly they became all super-woke-enlightened and now want to lecture me like I'm the one who was living in the dark the whole time.

Did you happen to go to the same school I did? Because I swear I've had this happen to me before.

[New Edom]

From the content of the recent posts, one could be forgiven for thinking (as many new posters seem to do) that this thread would be more aptly named the anti-feminist thread

That's ironic, since when you really think about it the MRM is actually not saying that feminism' as a movement should not exist at all, but rather that it should fulfill its promises without lashing out at anyone who questions its policies. No ideology or organization should be above being questioned or having its ideas debated.

[Crysuko]

B-B-BUT MUH PATRIARCHY

What are you saying? Are you saying that there is fair discussion and debate when popular feminist assertions are challenged? Such as, for instance, the campus rape crisis hoax that the media got people stirred up about and which feminist activists and politicians insisted needed enormous funding and response? Or the blackballing of feminists who proposed different responses to concerns about sexual assault than urging awareness of rape culture?

It is interesting, isn't it, that one of the assertions of popular feminist leaders is 'believe women' but when women say things that are unpopular in the movement that they are treated as though they are liars and delusional? Are you saying that you find the treatment of such women acceptable?

you may over overthought this a lot little. I am mocking the misandrists who look at society ills, put a "PATRIARCHY!1!" sticker on it and call it a day

[New Edom]

Well, certainly they get called out for being anti-feminist, rape apologists, etc. Idiot celebrities and corrupt journalists join in the hue and cry and further poison the well.

We get called out for being moles sent out by the patriarchy to masquerade as the enemy and bring down feminism from within, which somehow feels more insulting to me, personally. Probably because the people doing so were the type of girls who rolled their eyes at me whenever I talked about feminism before going back to gabbing about hair and boys, up until we all went to college where suddenly they became all super-woke-enlightened and now want to lecture me like I'm the one who was living in the dark the whole time.

How often have you found that such people actually read any feminist theory to any degree? To what extent have they read any feminist science fiction even?