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Globalists: how do we respond to resurgent nationalism?

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Post War America
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Postby Post War America » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:44 am

Kerbodine wrote:I'm by no means a globalist, but to the globalists here (since I think this is a very open discussion): don't be too overly optimistic about the future being more 'pro-globalist'. The youngest generation shows some very interesting trends, many of which are non-globalist.


The youngest generation also shows many traits that could be considered globalist. Insofar as I can tell our generation isn't okay with economic globalism, but more okay with cultural globalization.
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Community Values
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Ex-Nation

Postby Community Values » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:19 am

Kerbodine wrote:I'm by no means a globalist, but to the globalists here (since I think this is a very open discussion): don't be too overly optimistic about the future being more 'pro-globalist'. The youngest generation shows some very interesting trends, many of which are non-globalist.


Interesting trends that are found where? I mean, I live in the most Republican town in my state, and I can say a lot about the political trends in my school.
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South Park Labourite
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Ex-Nation

Postby South Park Labourite » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:22 am

I care more about socialism then globalism. If you can't beat them, join them. Brexit Britannia here we come!

Things will fix themselves once millennials control the leavers of power anyway.
Last edited by South Park Labourite on Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Stormwrath
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Ex-Nation

Postby Stormwrath » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:43 am

Yeah, throw away the concept of the nation-state and unite the world as one species.

What could possibly go wrong?

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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:45 am

Stormwrath wrote:Yeah, throw away the concept of the nation-state and unite the world as one species.

What could possibly go wrong?

Nothing worth doing was ever easy.
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Luziyca
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Postby Luziyca » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:49 am

The Lone Alliance wrote:The problem is that the symbol of globalism isn't nice happy people singing "It's a small world after all" but multinational corporations making everyone their bitch.

That is true. While globalism seems nice in theory, the problem is that capitalists has decided to exploit the shit out of the world and spread their values and ideas across the globe.

The Lone Alliance wrote:There's also the false image that all cultures and people can get along with one another.

Honestly, I think the reason why they can't get along with one another is that many people are douchebags to one another. There's a reason why Romans said that Homo homini lupus, and why Hobbes still has a wide appeal after a few centuries.
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Dai Heiwa
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Ex-Nation

Postby Dai Heiwa » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:56 am

Stormwrath wrote:Yeah, throw away the concept of the nation-state and unite the world as one species.

What could possibly go wrong?

Keep the nation-states under the whim of irrational plebeians what could possibly go wrong??
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Stormwrath
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Postby Stormwrath » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:58 am

Alvecia wrote:
Stormwrath wrote:Yeah, throw away the concept of the nation-state and unite the world as one species.

What could possibly go wrong?

Nothing worth doing was ever easy.

It's gonna end up like the Greek city-states more than the Ottoman Empire if it actually happens.

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Great Nepal
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Ex-Nation

Postby Great Nepal » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:58 am

Stormwrath wrote:Yeah, throw away the concept of the nation-state and unite the world as one species.

What could possibly go wrong?

Throw away arbitrarily drawn lines determined by whose great grandfather had the biggest penis? That sounds like an entirely reasonable suggestion.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Stormwrath
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Postby Stormwrath » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:01 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Stormwrath wrote:Yeah, throw away the concept of the nation-state and unite the world as one species.

What could possibly go wrong?

Throw away arbitrarily drawn lines determined by whose great grandfather had the biggest penis? That sounds like an entirely reasonable suggestion.

That's assuming the whole world is like Africa post-colonialism.

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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:02 am

Stormwrath wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Nothing worth doing was ever easy.

It's gonna end up like the Greek city-states more than the Ottoman Empire if it actually happens.

I don't think they're quite analogous.
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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:04 am

Stormwrath wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Throw away arbitrarily drawn lines determined by whose great grandfather had the biggest penis? That sounds like an entirely reasonable suggestion.

That's assuming the whole world is like Africa post-colonialism.

Nope it applies to all nationstates; simply at differing points in time.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Stormwrath
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Postby Stormwrath » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:13 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Stormwrath wrote:That's assuming the whole world is like Africa post-colonialism.

Nope it applies to all nationstates; simply at differing points in time.

And I'm pretty sure it also applies to other groups that mark their territory, like clans, tribes, and city-states. Should we get rid of those too?

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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:14 am

Stormwrath wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Nope it applies to all nationstates; simply at differing points in time.

And I'm pretty sure it also applies to other groups that mark their territory, like clans, tribes, and city-states. Should we get rid of those too?

Sure, although I'm not entirely sure impact of tribalism among surviving clans, tribes or city-states is anything as large as that of nationstate.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Stormwrath
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Postby Stormwrath » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:18 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Stormwrath wrote:And I'm pretty sure it also applies to other groups that mark their territory, like clans, tribes, and city-states. Should we get rid of those too?

Sure, although I'm not entirely sure impact of tribalism among surviving clans, tribes or city-states is anything as large as that of nationstate.

But fundamentally they are all the same: they have territory that they mark. Let's be honest, like many animals, humans are a territorial species and we aren't just gonna give that up because we have the same blood running through our veins or because the modern age has allowed us access to goods and resources from all over the world in great amounts.

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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:24 am

Stormwrath wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Sure, although I'm not entirely sure impact of tribalism among surviving clans, tribes or city-states is anything as large as that of nationstate.

But fundamentally they are all the same: they have territory that they mark. Let's be honest, like many animals, humans are a territorial species and we aren't just gonna give that up because we have the same blood running through our veins or because the modern age has allowed us access to goods and resources from all over the world in great amounts.

Sure they are the same hence I'm all for removing clan based tribalism too, however given clans generally aren't prominent - it's not really as major issue as nation based tribalism. We're not going to give up the arbitrary nations based tribalism yet, after all it has been ingrained in psyche for centuries - but there is no reason to suggest this'd be impossible long term after all we went from treating clans as founding bloc to feudal lords as founding bloc to nations as a founding bloc for tribalism - there is no reason why this progression would necessarily stop arbitrarily at nations.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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The Texan Union
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Postby The Texan Union » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:28 am

Alvecia wrote:Nationalistic resurgence is, I think, just a knee jerk reaction. The Migrant Crisis was a bit too much too quickly.
Given time it'll die down. Just stay the course.

I don't think it will. We certainly don't have any plans to go away.
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:29 am

The Texan Union wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Nationalistic resurgence is, I think, just a knee jerk reaction. The Migrant Crisis was a bit too much too quickly.
Given time it'll die down. Just stay the course.

I don't think it will. We certainly don't have any plans to go away.

No-one ever plans to go away. Doesn't stop it from happening.
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Stormwrath
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Postby Stormwrath » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:31 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Stormwrath wrote:But fundamentally they are all the same: they have territory that they mark. Let's be honest, like many animals, humans are a territorial species and we aren't just gonna give that up because we have the same blood running through our veins or because the modern age has allowed us access to goods and resources from all over the world in great amounts.

Sure they are the same hence I'm all for removing clan based tribalism too, however given clans generally aren't prominent - it's not really as major issue as nation based tribalism. We're not going to give up the arbitrary nations based tribalism yet, after all it has been ingrained in psyche for centuries - but there is no reason to suggest this'd be impossible long term after all we went from treating clans as founding bloc to feudal lords as founding bloc to nations as a founding bloc for tribalism - there is no reason why this progression would necessarily stop arbitrarily at nations.

Not saying it's impossible--we wouldn't get our Unified Earth Federation if it is--just that it's gonna be hard af to get there. At the moment, I don't think globalist thought as understood today is ideal for that. You're gonna have to get rid of the idea that they're English, French, Germans, etc. if it's going to work, and that's not something they're gonna take sitting down for another few decades.

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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:32 am

Stormwrath wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Sure they are the same hence I'm all for removing clan based tribalism too, however given clans generally aren't prominent - it's not really as major issue as nation based tribalism. We're not going to give up the arbitrary nations based tribalism yet, after all it has been ingrained in psyche for centuries - but there is no reason to suggest this'd be impossible long term after all we went from treating clans as founding bloc to feudal lords as founding bloc to nations as a founding bloc for tribalism - there is no reason why this progression would necessarily stop arbitrarily at nations.

Not saying it's impossible--we wouldn't get our Unified Earth Federation if it is--just that it's gonna be hard af to get there. At the moment, I don't think globalist thought as understood today is ideal for that. You're gonna have to get rid of the idea that they're English, French, Germans, etc. if it's going to work, and that's not something they're gonna take sitting down for another few decades.

I honestly don't think it'll happen within my lifetime.
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That's not happening
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Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:36 am

Stormwrath wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Sure they are the same hence I'm all for removing clan based tribalism too, however given clans generally aren't prominent - it's not really as major issue as nation based tribalism. We're not going to give up the arbitrary nations based tribalism yet, after all it has been ingrained in psyche for centuries - but there is no reason to suggest this'd be impossible long term after all we went from treating clans as founding bloc to feudal lords as founding bloc to nations as a founding bloc for tribalism - there is no reason why this progression would necessarily stop arbitrarily at nations.

Not saying it's impossible--we wouldn't get our Unified Earth Federation if it is--just that it's gonna be hard af to get there. At the moment, I don't think globalist thought as understood today is ideal for that. You're gonna have to get rid of the idea that they're English, French, Germans, etc. if it's going to work, and that's not something they're gonna take sitting down for another few decades.

Of course I'm not suggesting it'll happen at present or even for decades (perhaps even centuries if the nativism takes hold) to come, hence the need for globalism as a long term policy and why international projects like EU are absolutely crucial - only by slowly altering people's vision from being 'German' to being 'European' will it be possible to eventually alter it to be 'Human'.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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The Texan Union
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Postby The Texan Union » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:36 am

Dai Heiwa wrote:
Stormwrath wrote:Yeah, throw away the concept of the nation-state and unite the world as one species.

What could possibly go wrong?

Keep the nation-states under the whim of irrational plebeians what could possibly go wrong??

My God, it's as if both ideas have problems and difficulties.
:roll:
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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:38 am

The Texan Union wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Nationalistic resurgence is, I think, just a knee jerk reaction. The Migrant Crisis was a bit too much too quickly.
Given time it'll die down. Just stay the course.

I don't think it will. We certainly don't have any plans to go away.

Dont worry the future voters do have that plan for the nationalists. ;)
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Luziyca
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Luziyca » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:49 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Stormwrath wrote:Not saying it's impossible--we wouldn't get our Unified Earth Federation if it is--just that it's gonna be hard af to get there. At the moment, I don't think globalist thought as understood today is ideal for that. You're gonna have to get rid of the idea that they're English, French, Germans, etc. if it's going to work, and that's not something they're gonna take sitting down for another few decades.

Of course I'm not suggesting it'll happen at present or even for decades (perhaps even centuries if the nativism takes hold) to come, hence the need for globalism as a long term policy and why international projects like EU are absolutely crucial - only by slowly altering people's vision from being 'German' to being 'European' will it be possible to eventually alter it to be 'Human'.

Yes, but it would not help if we only go halfway. But still, it could be possible that one day, Asia, Europe, Africa, the Americas, and Australia can become united, and then they create a stronger union.

But I think it'd take centuries or millennia before Earth can be united, if it ever gets to that point.
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Great Nepal
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Ex-Nation

Postby Great Nepal » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:52 am

Luziyca wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Of course I'm not suggesting it'll happen at present or even for decades (perhaps even centuries if the nativism takes hold) to come, hence the need for globalism as a long term policy and why international projects like EU are absolutely crucial - only by slowly altering people's vision from being 'German' to being 'European' will it be possible to eventually alter it to be 'Human'.

Yes, but it would not help if we only go halfway. But still, it could be possible that one day, Asia, Europe, Africa, the Americas, and Australia can become united, and then they create a stronger union.

But I think it'd take centuries or millennia before Earth can be united, if it ever gets to that point.

I don't think it'll necessarily be that long, out of our lifetimes sure but even feudalism lasted few centuries and that was in an era where change occurred much slower than it does currently. In any event I do think it is certainly plausible that within our lifetime we see organisations like EU adopting more federal structure, or at the very least these organisations getting more competence over the national governments.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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