The Berkeley Incident and Free Speech

[Jamzmania]

I wouldn't "replace" anyone. That's sick. His ideas are his own, and he has the right to express them.

Again even if it means advocating bullying people into different sex marriages?

Yes.

[Hyggemata]

Well, stop him from being heard. People will find better stories to latch onto.

Ah yes, the try to stop Milo from speaking route, because that has gone over so well for the thousands upon thousands of people who have tried before.

It's not worth it, you're only shooting your own cause in the foot (well, probably the pelvis by now since the 2016 election gnawed off your legs). I've listened to Milo's speeches. They're nothing impressive, the only reason he's famous and has any power is because of people like you.

I don't agree. I am exposing the fallacies that are evident in his public relations work.

[The Texan Union]

A number of things, but above all it's a really stupid tactic. Especially when the guy you're trying to silence constantly talks about how liberals try to silence conservatives. You're just tossing fuel on the fire. People naturally want to read stuff that a lot of people don't want them to read.

Well, stop him from being heard. People will find better stories to latch onto.

How about we stop you from you from being heard. We'll just convince the mods to delete you, and then all will be good.

Because we think you're dangerous, for some reason.

[Uiiop]

To elaborate i don't actually think being "Ist" is enough to be kicked out of university.
I also don't think those who get kicked out can't be discussed in the university. Just that they don't need to be there.

[Hyggemata]

Well, I can see through his ploy. It's a fine line between what he was insinuating and what is actually true, but the difference is there.

It's a fine line only you can see because you're imagining it.

It isn't. I know that in reality he has very little substance, but he is rather good at exploiting the American obsession with the notion of freedom.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Look, I'm a tranwoman who hates Milo, but the man was going through all the proper channels and earned the timefor him to talk. Peaceful protests outside, good. Debating with him, better. Godamn riots to shut him up, bad

[Hyggemata]

Well, stop him from being heard. People will find better stories to latch onto.

How about we stop you from you from being heard. We'll just convince the mods to delete you, and then all will be good.

Because we think you're dangerous, for some reason.

Well you can do that, but I don't think they appreciate being compelled to delete someone.

[Patridam]

It's a fine line only you can see because you're imagining it.

It isn't. I know that in reality he has very little substance, but he is rather good at exploiting the American obsession with the notion of freedom.

Oh yes, god forbid anyone care about freedom. Saying things like "obsession with freedom" like freedom is somehow a bad thing is exactly what convinces me the left has gone down the regressive rabbit hole.

[Internationalist Bastard]

How about we stop you from you from being heard. We'll just convince the mods to delete you, and then all will be good.

Because we think you're dangerous, for some reason.

Well you can do that, but I don't think they appreciate being compelled to delete someone.

But people like having to kick out speakers because of riots?

[Uiiop]

Well you can do that, but I don't think they appreciate being compelled to delete someone.

But people like having to kick out speakers because of riots?

No. But kicking out speakers because of support for harassment? yes.

Damn shame it wasn't the case here.

[Hyggemata]

It isn't. I know that in reality he has very little substance, but he is rather good at exploiting the American obsession with the notion of freedom.

Oh yes, god forbid anyone care about freedom. Saying things like "obsession with freedom" like freedom is somehow a bad thing is exactly what convinces me the left has gone down the regressive rabbit hole.

Freedom is neither good or bad by itself. Excessive freedom is injurious. In any organized society, there can never be or should be any form of absolute freedom, except the freedom of thought. Human society is a tradeoff between the benefits of communal living and individual freedom. At the one end, we have robotic hiveminds, and at the other end, no society at all. We are somewhere in between.

[Internationalist Bastard]

But people like having to kick out speakers because of riots?

No. But kicking out speakers because of support for harassment? yes.

Damn shame it wasn't the case here.

Believe me, I can't stand the man, and I get he encourages abuse towards the LGBT community. But as it is, umless somebody wants to press criminal charges, he's just talking

[The Texan Union]

I wouldn't "replace" anyone. That's sick. His ideas are his own, and he has the right to express them.

Again even if it means advocating bullying people into different sex marriages?

Let me put it this way:

I'd let Hitler publish Mein Kampf.

Why? Because if I tried to silence him, or treat people like children and give them a "replacement" Nazi, they'd get pissed and think "Well, this Hitler dude must have something important to say if these guys want to shut 'em up!".

Also, this is America and even Hitler has the right to free speech. I'm not sure citizens should be allowed to take that right from other citizens. Just uh, you know, that seems a tad un-American to me.

[Patridam]

Oh yes, god forbid anyone care about freedom. Saying things like "obsession with freedom" like freedom is somehow a bad thing is exactly what convinces me the left has gone down the regressive rabbit hole.

Freedom is neither good or bad by itself. Excessive freedom is injurious. In any organized society, there can never be or should be any form of absolute freedom, except the freedom of thought. Human society is a tradeoff between the benefits of communal living and individual freedom.

And what I'm hearing is "Freedoms are only good when THE PARTY decides that they are good"

I'm surprised there hasn't been a Great American Novel depicting a social justice warrior run dystopian future. Oh wait, you'd just bully the publisher into not producing it.

[The Texan Union]

But people like having to kick out speakers because of riots?

No. But kicking out speakers because of support for harassment? yes.

Damn shame it wasn't the case here.

He wasn't supporting harassment, for Christ's sake. He just said something mean to one person in public. Boo-hoo.

[Gauthier]

No. But kicking out speakers because of support for harassment? yes.

Damn shame it wasn't the case here.

Believe me, I can't stand the man, and I get he encourages abuse towards the LGBT community. But as it is, umless somebody wants to press criminal charges, he's just talking

What's disingenuous is the right conflating Black Bloc shitbaggery with some overarcing plot to silence Yannoupolis.

[Uiiop]

Again even if it means advocating bullying people into different sex marriages?

Let me put it this way:

I'd let Hitler publish Mein Kampf.

Why? Because if I tried to silence him, or treat people like children and give them a "replacement" Nazi, they'd get pissed and think "Well, this Hitler dude must have something important to say if these guys want to shut 'em up!".

Also, this is America and even Hitler has the right to free speech. I'm not sure citizens should be allowed to take that right from other citizens. Just uh, you know, that seems a tad un-American to me.

Not that is disproves but this means most online forums are un-american.
Cause all i'm saying is that some places have good reasons not allowing some people to use them as a soapbox.

[Uiiop]

No. But kicking out speakers because of support for harassment? yes.

Damn shame it wasn't the case here.

He wasn't supporting harassment, for Christ's sake. He just said something mean to one person in public. Boo-hoo.

"I will close with this advice. Never feel bad for mocking a transgender person. It is our job to point out their absurdity, to not make the problem worse by pretending they are normal. Much like fat-shaming, if our mockery drives them to get the help they need, we may save their life. "

[Hyggemata]

Freedom is neither good or bad by itself. Excessive freedom is injurious. In any organized society, there can never be or should be any form of absolute freedom, except the freedom of thought. Human society is a tradeoff between the benefits of communal living and individual freedom.

And what I'm hearing is "Freedoms are only good when THE PARTY decides that they are good"

No. Freedoms are good when people agree that they are good. We think there should not be a freedom to shout "fire" in crowded movie theatres when there is no fire, so there is not such a freedom.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a Great American Novel depicting a social justice warrior run dystopian future. Oh wait, you'd just bully the publisher into not producing it.

It's not up for me to decide. The publishers ultimately decide whether to publish or not, probably on the basis of the potential sales of the work, not on whether the contents agree with their private political beliefs or not.

[Patridam]

He wasn't supporting harassment, for Christ's sake. He just said something mean to one person in public. Boo-hoo.

"I will close with this advice. Never feel bad for mocking a transgender person. It is our job to point out their absurdity, to not make the problem worse by pretending they are normal. Much like fat-shaming, if our mockery drives them to get the help they need, we may save their life. "

A person recognizing gender dysphoria as a mental health issue does not equate to harassment. I know NationStates has arbitrarily chosen to recognize doing so as trolling, but the laws of the USA are not the moderation rules of NS, thankfully. I won't say I agree with Milo, because I would get censored if I did, but that opinion, valid or not, is not harassment, not in the slightest.

[Internationalist Bastard]

"I will close with this advice. Never feel bad for mocking a transgender person. It is our job to point out their absurdity, to not make the problem worse by pretending they are normal. Much like fat-shaming, if our mockery drives them to get the help they need, we may save their life. "

A person recognizing gender dysphoria as a mental health issue does not equate to harassment. I know NationStates has arbitrarily chosen to recognize doing so as trolling, but the laws of the USA are not the moderation rules of NS, thankfully. I won't say I agree with Milo, because I would get censored if I did, but that opinion, valid or not, is not harassment, not in the slightest.

Mockery is harrasment. That's like, the literal definition

[Uiiop]

"I will close with this advice. Never feel bad for mocking a transgender person. It is our job to point out their absurdity, to not make the problem worse by pretending they are normal. Much like fat-shaming, if our mockery drives them to get the help they need, we may save their life. "

A person recognizing gender dysphoria as a mental health issue does not equate to harassment. I know NationStates has arbitrarily chosen to recognize doing so as trolling, but the laws of the USA are not the moderation rules of NS, thankfully. I won't say I agree with Milo, because I would get censored if I did, but that opinion, valid or not, is not harassment, not in the slightest.

And viewing it as a mental illness is not why i think it's advocating harassment. Supporting Shaming of it is.

[Patridam]

A person recognizing gender dysphoria as a mental health issue does not equate to harassment. I know NationStates has arbitrarily chosen to recognize doing so as trolling, but the laws of the USA are not the moderation rules of NS, thankfully. I won't say I agree with Milo, because I would get censored if I did, but that opinion, valid or not, is not harassment, not in the slightest.

Mockery is harrasment. That's like, the literal definition

No. Intimidation and threats are harassment, that's the actual definition. If mockery is harassment, hundreds of millions of people have harassed Donald Trump and should be arrested.

[Hyggemata]

Mockery is harrasment. That's like, the literal definition

No. Intimidation and threats are harassment, that's the actual definition. If mockery is harassment, hundreds of millions of people have harassed Donald Trump and should be arrested.

Mockery is grounds for civil litigation. Freedom of speech is not immunity from civil suit.

[Patridam]

And what I'm hearing is "Freedoms are only good when THE PARTY decides that they are good"

No. Freedoms are good when people agree that they are good. We think there should not be a freedom to shout "fire" in crowded movie theatres when there is no fire, so there is not such a freedom.

No. The United States, and most other democracies, have freedoms guaranteed as inalienable rights to prevent what you are proposing; tyranny by majority. If 51% of the country up and greed that expressing leftist opinions was not a good freedom for people to have, you would not approve.