The Berkeley Incident and Free Speech

[PaNTuXIa]

No, I just think there is a difference between the libertarian, anti-PC, anti-SJW "alt-lite" and the white supremacist, anti-semitic, and sexist alt-right.

Running the gamut from 'racist' to 'openly white supremacist' isn't really enough of a distinction in my book to warrant a separate label. Also, anti-semitic? Shit man, even traditional far-right groups haven't been uniformly anti-semitic for years.

The alt-lite aren't racist.

[Conserative Morality]

The alt-lite aren't racist.

No? They just engage in harassment campaigns using racist slurs against people and openly cheer racist bullshit and mock people of different races. "It's just a joke bro."

[PaNTuXIa]

The alt-lite aren't racist.

No? They just engage in harassment campaigns using racist slurs against people and openly cheer racist bullshit and mock people of different races. "It's just a joke bro."

When has Alex Jones, PJW, or Rebel Media ever done that?

[Liriena]

1. Being a (self-hating) gay man, having Jewish ancestry (but actually being raised Catholic) and gloating about having sex with black men does not preclude being far right. Pointing to his sexual orientation, religious ancestry and the supposed ethnicity of his lovers does not constitute proof that he cannot possibly be far right.
2. He openly identifies with the alt-right and co-authored a piece that was, for all purposes, a defense and a manifesto for the alt-right.
3. Here's an example of him incurring in hate speech towards trans people. And here is an example of him combining said hate speech with the doxxing of a trans person.

All right. But did his hate speech need to be met with violent action?

Given that the violent action did not involve him getting his jaw broken, but instead property being vandalized and attendees being assaulted in a seemingly indiscriminate fashion, I'd dare say it did not.

[Conserative Morality]

When has Alex Jones, PJW, or Rebel Media ever done that?

Milo certainly has. Alex Jones engages in more mainstream Tea-Party style racism. PJW and Rebel Media I'm unfamiliar with.

[PaNTuXIa]

When has Alex Jones, PJW, or Rebel Media ever done that?

Milo certainly has. Alex Jones engages in more mainstream Tea-Party style racism. PJW and Rebel Media I'm unfamiliar with.

Alex Jones isn't racist.

[Conserative Morality]

Alex Jones isn't racist.

Right, Mr. "I've been jumped by black people 35 times", "Whites are the new Al-Qaeda", "They will rob you" isn't racist.

[PaNTuXIa]

Alex Jones isn't racist.

Right, Mr. "I've been jumped by black people 35 times", "Whites are the new Al-Qaeda", "They will rob you" isn't racist.

He may have been jumped by blacks. How is that racist?

[Conserative Morality]

He may have been jumped by blacks. How is that racist?

If you believe he's been jumped 35 times by black people (and 5 times by Hispanics), I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you. If you don't believe that, then he is, necessarily, lying on his show, inflating or outright fabricating these incidents to get a 'scarier' number of crimes he can link to black people. But he followed up with "But I'm not racist!" all the while his site peddles in petty-level racist bullshit like that infamous Trump retweet.

So clearly, since he said he wasn't racist while doing all of this, he's not racist.

[Republic of the Roman Nations]

Kinda like how many far left people have the mentality that black people can't be racist.

Not something I've seen outside of tumblr. Calling poe on that.

Really? I've seen it a lot on Facebook and Twitter, mostly idiots who try to redefine racism as power + prejudice instead of an irrational hatred of a specific race.

Perhaps we have different spheres of influence.

[Republic of the Roman Nations]

When has Alex Jones, PJW, or Rebel Media ever done that?

Milo certainly has. Alex Jones engages in more mainstream Tea-Party style racism. PJW and Rebel Media I'm unfamiliar with.

Alex Jones is but a humble water filter salesman.

[Conserative Morality]

Really? I've seen it a lot on Facebook and Twitter, mostly idiots who try to redefine racism as power + prejudice instead of an irrational hatred of a specific race.

Perhaps we have different spheres of influence.

It's using an academic definition for common usage. I've seen it before, though the influence of the conflation on the liberal side of the spectrum is often much exaggerated.

[Conserative Morality]

Alex Jones is but a humble water filter salesman.

Natch.

[Republic of the Roman Nations]

Really? I've seen it a lot on Facebook and Twitter, mostly idiots who try to redefine racism as power + prejudice instead of an irrational hatred of a specific race.

Perhaps we have different spheres of influence.

It's using an academic definition for common usage. I've seen it before, though the influence of the conflation on the liberal side of the spectrum is often much exaggerated.

Much like how the influence of the alt-right is over stated.

[Conserative Morality]

Much like how the influence of the alt-right is over stated.

I would've agreed before the election of Trump. Now their influence is vastly disproportionate to their numbers.

[Republic of the Roman Nations]

Much like how the influence of the alt-right is over stated.

I would've agreed before the election of Trump. Now their influence is vastly disproportionate to their numbers.

I somewhat agree with Michael Moore on the topic of Trump, it's not that we as a nation like him, it's just that we wanted to give the biggest middle finger to the establishment in history.

[Alvecia]

Not something I've seen outside of tumblr. Calling poe on that.

Facebook and Twitter

Well there's your problem right there

[Sack Jackpot Winners]

When has Alex Jones, PJW, or Rebel Media ever done that?

Milo certainly has. Alex Jones engages in more mainstream Tea-Party style racism. PJW and Rebel Media I'm unfamiliar with.

I'm not familiar with Alex Jones other than he's a general dick (not necessarily racist), but are you confusing racism with anti-immigration, anti-Affirmative Action, and anti-your opinion? Thats what it sounds like.

[Wallenburg]

Milo certainly has. Alex Jones engages in more mainstream Tea-Party style racism. PJW and Rebel Media I'm unfamiliar with.

I'm not familiar with Alex Jones other than he's a general dick (not necessarily racist), but are you confusing racism with anti-immigration, anti-Affirmative Action, and anti-your opinion? Thats what it sounds like.

Somebody hasn't been following the conversation.

Wow, you're really attached to identity politics to think that such labels matter in an individual's political preferences.

No, I don't. However, I do not think that the alt-right would idolize a Jewish gay man.

Milo is part of what the white nationalist fringe alt-right call the "alt-lite." The mainstream alt-right that consists of Paul Joseph Watson, Alex Jones, Breitbart, Milo, and Rebel Media. These groups are more focused on being anti-PC and anti-SJW, as well as pro-West than being white nationalist Nazis.

tl;dr Richard Spencer =/= Milo

They don't, though. They look at him as a tool with which to attack the left. Their real idols are Alex Jones, Steve Bannon, Richard Spencer, and the orange man currently working on dismantling the federal government down to the military and border control.

[Sack Jackpot Winners]

I'm not familiar with Alex Jones other than he's a general dick (not necessarily racist), but are you confusing racism with anti-immigration, anti-Affirmative Action, and anti-your opinion? Thats what it sounds like.

Somebody hasn't been following the conversation.

Somebody doesn't have to.

Moreover, when you're accusing the Tea Party of racism (which is pretty baseless) and saying that is the racism that Alex Jones practices, then I'm lead to believe he isn't racist.

[Republic of the Roman Nations]

Again, Alex Jones is but a humble water filter salesman.

[Patridam]

Again, Alex Jones is but a humble water filter salesman.

A water filter salesman with more followers than the Young Turks, despite their claims otherwise.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

So apparently the Berkley paper published Op Ed's defending violence as a means of suppressing speech.

http://www.dailycal.org/2017/02/07/viol ... f-defense/

[Republic of the Roman Nations]

So apparently the Berkley paper published Op Ed's defending violence as a means of suppressing speech.

http://www.dailycal.org/2017/02/07/viol ... f-defense/

I saw that, bunch of violent extremist.

[Liriena]

So apparently the Berkley paper published Op Ed's defending violence as a means of suppressing speech.

http://www.dailycal.org/2017/02/07/viol ... f-defense/

Or rather, violent action as a form of self-defense against hate speech. In the case of speakers who would use their platform to endanger others by doxxing individual people or encouraging harassment and abuse towards entire groups, I could see the point in such an argument.

The individual op-eds are fairly nuanced and thoughtful. While I am unsure as to whether I could in fact agree with them, I can appreciate the fact that they are taking this seriously and are not speaking in bad faith, but out of genuine concerns.