The Berkeley Incident and Free Speech

[Vassenor]

What civil rights are feminists fighting for?

Female supremacy and gender studies jobs that are more plentiful and better paying than engineering jobs, etc.

[Saint Marguerite Academy]

Female supremacy and gender studies jobs that are more plentiful and better paying than engineering jobs, etc.

...Uh... Vassenor, Picard Facepalm has been initiated.

They want Gender Study jobs that pay more than an Engineer? I can imagine the HR discussion.

"So, Mr. Matthews, the Marketing Department want better pay since they want to set up a Gender Studies Group."
"We're obliged to do that. Let's downsize the Financing Department."

[Republic of the Roman Nations]

As far as I'm concerned Milo has the freedom of speech as do his opposition, this however does not mean that his opposition can light fires, vandalize buildings, and assault his supporters in the streets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCN0R2HDxH8

If you only support speech that you agree with you are not for free speech, plain and simple.

Also important to note is that he wasn't going to dox anyone, some asshat just made that up on twitter and no one bothered to fact check it.

[Vassenor]

...Uh... Vassenor, Picard Facepalm has been initiated.

They want Gender Study jobs that pay more than an Engineer? I can imagine the HR discussion.

"So, Mr. Matthews, the Marketing Department want better pay since they want to set up a Gender Studies Group."
"We're obliged to do that. Let's downsize the Financing Department."

If people are going to engage in strawmanning about what Feminism actually is then I reserve the right to abuse the cranked eyebrow.

[Saint Marguerite Academy]

...Uh... Vassenor, Picard Facepalm has been initiated.

They want Gender Study jobs that pay more than an Engineer? I can imagine the HR discussion.

"So, Mr. Matthews, the Marketing Department want better pay since they want to set up a Gender Studies Group."
"We're obliged to do that. Let's downsize the Financing Department."

If people are going to engage in strawmanning about what Feminism actually is then I reserve the right to abuse the cranked eyebrow.

I was agreeing with you. XD

[Patridam]

...Uh... Vassenor, Picard Facepalm has been initiated.

They want Gender Study jobs that pay more than an Engineer? I can imagine the HR discussion.

"So, Mr. Matthews, the Marketing Department want better pay since they want to set up a Gender Studies Group."
"We're obliged to do that. Let's downsize the Financing Department."

I was being sarcastic(ish) and am nothing resembling a feminist, I hope you both realize.

In all honesty there is very little reason for modern feminism in developed countries.

[Liriena]

To be more accurate, he's a self-hating gay man who believes that his sexual orientation is an aberration and wishes he could be cured, and is only Jewish insofar as he has matrilineal Jewish ancestry, but was actually raised Catholic.

He's also proudly misogynistic and anti-LGBT rights (insofar as he only seems to care about the human rights of LGBT people when it's Muslims oppressing us), and likes to use his influence as a public figure to harass others, including both fellow public figures and private individuals.

In what is he against the rights of LGBwhatever? Or do you only thing he's against them because he hasn't drank the leftist kool aid?

The fact that you act like "LGBT" is too complicated an acronym, and so you give up after getting three of the four letters in it right, is adorable.

I do not appreciate your overtly hostile wording and thereby choose not to treat your questions seriously. Consider rephrasing.

[Vassenor]

Is this another one of those "there's no gender discrimination in society because the wage gap don't real" things or something?

[Saint Marguerite Academy]

...Uh... Vassenor, Picard Facepalm has been initiated.

They want Gender Study jobs that pay more than an Engineer? I can imagine the HR discussion.

"So, Mr. Matthews, the Marketing Department want better pay since they want to set up a Gender Studies Group."
"We're obliged to do that. Let's downsize the Financing Department."

I was being sarcastic(ish) and am nothing resembling a feminist, I hope you both realize.

In all honesty there is very little reason for modern feminism in developed countries.

I'm all for gender equality myself. but the Feminists are, ah...not very encouraging.

[Republic of the Roman Nations]

I was being sarcastic(ish) and am nothing resembling a feminist, I hope you both realize.

In all honesty there is very little reason for modern feminism in developed countries.

I'm all for gender equality myself. but the Feminists are, ah...not very encouraging.

I'm much more of a egalitarian myself, third wave feminism is just kinda eh.

[Liriena]

Feminism is a civil rights movement.

"Identity politics" is just a right-wing buzzword used to disparage contemporary civil rights movements.


Not quite.

What civil rights are feminists fighting for?

Depends on which feminists and where. Feminists like Malala Yousafzai fight for women's right to seek an education (a right that is constantly violated in some nations). Others fight for women's right to medical privacy and bodily sovereignity (particularly, in terms of access to contraception and abortion). Others fight for women's right to not be blackmailed into not pressing charges against their rapists in exchange for said rapists not suing for custody of the children conceived in the rape. Others perceive a disparity in the pay that men and women receive for the same work, and fight against this perceived disparity. Others fight for the rights of trans women. Others fight for the rights of sex workers.

And others are just TERFs. TERFs are horrible.

[PaNTuXIa]

So exactly how is Milo, a gay, Jewish man who dates a black man an alt-rightist? And how does he promote hate speech?

[Liriena]

So exactly how is Milo, a gay, Jewish man who dates a black man an alt-rightist? And how does he promote hate speech?

1. Being a (self-hating) gay man, having Jewish ancestry (but actually being raised Catholic) and gloating about having sex with black men does not preclude being far right. Pointing to his sexual orientation, religious ancestry and the supposed ethnicity of his lovers does not constitute proof that he cannot possibly be far right.
2. He openly identifies with the alt-right and co-authored a piece that was, for all purposes, a defense and a manifesto for the alt-right.
3. Here's an example of him incurring in hate speech towards trans people. And here is an example of him combining said hate speech with the doxxing of a trans person.

[Conserative Morality]

So exactly how is Milo, a gay, Jewish man who dates a black man an alt-rightist?

Wow, you're really attached to identity politics to think that such labels matter in an individual's political preferences.

[Republic of the Roman Nations]

So exactly how is Milo, a gay, Jewish man who dates a black man an alt-rightist?

Wow, you're really attached to identity politics to think that such labels matter in an individual's political preferences.

I think the point was to shove identity politics back into the people who normally use it.

Kinda like how many far left people have the mentality that black people can't be racist.

[Republic of the Roman Nations]

Anyrate, I'm going to dinner. Will be back to argue in two hours.

[Conserative Morality]

I think the point was to shove identity politics back into the people who normally use it.

Honestly, I think that it shows that the opposition many alt-right sympathizers have against identity politics actually has nothing to do with principles and everything to do with opportunism.

[Vassenor]

Kinda like how many far left people have the mentality that black people can't be racist.

Not something I've seen outside of tumblr. Calling poe on that.

[PaNTuXIa]

So exactly how is Milo, a gay, Jewish man who dates a black man an alt-rightist?

Wow, you're really attached to identity politics to think that such labels matter in an individual's political preferences.

No, I don't. However, I do not think that the alt-right would idolize a Jewish gay man.

Milo is part of what the white nationalist fringe alt-right call the "alt-lite." The mainstream alt-right that consists of Paul Joseph Watson, Alex Jones, Breitbart, Milo, and Rebel Media. These groups are more focused on being anti-PC and anti-SJW, as well as pro-West than being white nationalist Nazis.

tl;dr Richard Spencer =/= Milo

[PaNTuXIa]

So exactly how is Milo, a gay, Jewish man who dates a black man an alt-rightist? And how does he promote hate speech?

1. Being a (self-hating) gay man, having Jewish ancestry (but actually being raised Catholic) and gloating about having sex with black men does not preclude being far right. Pointing to his sexual orientation, religious ancestry and the supposed ethnicity of his lovers does not constitute proof that he cannot possibly be far right.
2. He openly identifies with the alt-right and co-authored a piece that was, for all purposes, a defense and a manifesto for the alt-right.
3. Here's an example of him incurring in hate speech towards trans people. And here is an example of him combining said hate speech with the doxxing of a trans person.

All right. But did his hate speech need to be met with violent action?

[Conserative Morality]

No, I don't. However, I do not think that the alt-right would idolize a Jewish gay man.

Then you haven't been paying attention. The alt-right isn't the traditional far-right.

Milo is part of what the white nationalist fringe alt-right call the "alt-lite." The mainstream alt-right that consists of Paul Joseph Watson, Alex Jones, Breitbart, Milo, and Rebel Media. These groups are more focused on being anti-PC and anti-SJW, as well as pro-West than being white nationalist Nazis.

tl;dr Richard Spencer =/= Milo

So what you're saying is the alt-right gets to dissociate itself from its most extreme members even if its more moderate members are part of the mainstream movement, openly identify with the movement, and have a huge following in the movement?

Good one.

[Conserative Morality]

All right. But did his hate speech need to be met with violent action?

No, and I think you'll find that the general consensus of Milo's opponents is the same. I'm not real up-to-date on the details of the Berkeley situation, but black flag anarchists have been taking recent opportunities to try to turn protests violent. Most of us liberals are either principled, pussies, or powerless.

[PaNTuXIa]

No, I don't. However, I do not think that the alt-right would idolize a Jewish gay man.

Then you haven't been paying attention. The alt-right isn't the traditional far-right.

Milo is part of what the white nationalist fringe alt-right call the "alt-lite." The mainstream alt-right that consists of Paul Joseph Watson, Alex Jones, Breitbart, Milo, and Rebel Media. These groups are more focused on being anti-PC and anti-SJW, as well as pro-West than being white nationalist Nazis.

tl;dr Richard Spencer =/= Milo

So what you're saying is the alt-right gets to dissociate itself from its most extreme members even if its more moderate members are part of the mainstream movement, openly identify with the movement, and have a huge following in the movement?

Good one.

No, I just think there is a difference between the libertarian, anti-PC, anti-SJW "alt-lite" and the white supremacist, anti-semitic, and sexist alt-right.

PJW is despised by most of the hardcore alt-right, and Rebel Media barely even makes it to alt-lite. Alex Jones is, well, Alex Jones, and Breitbart and Milo defend Israel, which I'm pretty sure the alt-right opposes.

[PaNTuXIa]

All right. But did his hate speech need to be met with violent action?

No, and I think you'll find that the general consensus of Milo's opponents is the same. I'm not real up-to-date on the details of the Berkeley situation, but black flag anarchists have been taking recent opportunities to try to turn protests violent. Most of us liberals are either principled, pussies, or powerless.

I have absolutely no problem with the protests, provided they aren't violent.

[Conserative Morality]

No, I just think there is a difference between the libertarian, anti-PC, anti-SJW "alt-lite" and the white supremacist, anti-semitic, and sexist alt-right.

Running the gamut from 'racist' to 'openly white supremacist' isn't really enough of a distinction in my book to warrant a separate label. Also, anti-semitic? Shit man, even traditional far-right groups haven't been uniformly anti-semitic for years.