The Berkeley Incident and Free Speech

[Alvecia]

What one person considers useful, profitable, or beneficial, another may not.
Useful and beneficial in particular are context and perspective dependant

I can agree with that to a point, but there are still more objective measures, relatively speaking of course.

The ability to attract talent, for instance. If you can't attract talent, you can't run a state.

That's not necessarily true. You can run a state incompetently
I get your point but I don't see its relevance to free speech

[Balochistan and New York]

If Trump gets to say the shit he wants, Milo should to.

And if people get to protest against what the president says, they should here too.

Over here they aren't protesting, they were rioting......

[Shen Tao]

That's not necessarily true. You can run a state incompetently
I get your point but I don't see its relevance to free speech

Reject useless speech to encourage useful speech

[Alvecia]

That's not necessarily true. You can run a state incompetently
I get your point but I don't see its relevance to free speech

Reject useless speech to encourage useful speech

My point being that what is consider useful or useless could depend entirely on your personal opinions, and what you consider to be important.

[Liriena]

And if people get to protest against what the president says, they should here too.

Over here they aren't protesting, they were rioting......

As has been repeatedly said, it was a bit of both. Some protested peacefully while others rioted. Don't lump all of them in the same bag just because it suits your narrative.

[Hirota]

Except this was a riot, not a protest.

Actually, it was a bit of both. Some antifa people "rioted", while the rest peacefully protested.

The problem is that some elements have decided that the actions of a minority represent the whole. We've seen smearing of Trump supporters as disproportionately racist Nazi hate mongers. It's the same tactics in play here.

[Shen Tao]

My point being that what is consider useful or useless could depend entirely on your personal opinions, and what you consider to be important.

we've already been over how that isn't the case.

[Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories]

No platform for fascists. Letting people spew propaganda without proper critical response is what's landed the world with a Trump presidency, and is looking like it'll define the next four years.

[Balochistan and New York]

Over here they aren't protesting, they were rioting......

As has been repeatedly said, it was a bit of both. Some protested peacefully while others rioted. Don't lump all of them in the same bag just because it suits your narrative.

Vassenor was putting them all in the same bag, so I did as well.

[Vassenor]

As has been repeatedly said, it was a bit of both. Some protested peacefully while others rioted. Don't lump all of them in the same bag just because it suits your narrative.

Vassenor was putting them all in the same bag, so I did as well.

When did I do that?

[Liriena]

Actually, it was a bit of both. Some antifa people "rioted", while the rest peacefully protested.

The problem is that some elements have decided that the actions of a minority represent the whole. We've seen smearing of Trump supporters as disproportionately racist Nazi hate mongers. It's the same tactics in play here.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeh, while referring to all Trump supporters as "racist Nazi hate mongers" would be very unfair, statistics don't paint a very flattering picture of them.

[Liriena]

As has been repeatedly said, it was a bit of both. Some protested peacefully while others rioted. Don't lump all of them in the same bag just because it suits your narrative.

Vassenor was putting them all in the same bag, so I did as well.

And if Vassenor jumped off a cliff you'd do the same?

Seriously, that's a child's excuse.

[MERIZoC]

Protesters are giving him too much attention. If there hadn't been protests, a couple hundred people see his speech. Now the story is on CNN. Good job.

[Oil exporting People]

You do not have a right to riot.

[Hirota]

The problem is that some elements have decided that the actions of a minority represent the whole. We've seen smearing of Trump supporters as disproportionately racist Nazi hate mongers. It's the same tactics in play here.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeh, while referring to all Trump supporters as "racist Nazi hate mongers" would be very unfair, statistics don't paint a very flattering picture of them.

Do we have a statistic for how many people were assaulted at Berkeley? I'm sure those statistics paint a flattering picture of of these protesters

[Alvecia]

My point being that what is consider useful or useless could depend entirely on your personal opinions, and what you consider to be important.

we've already been over how that isn't the case.

By bringing up a situation entirely irrelevant to speech

[Liriena]

You do not have a right to riot.

Someone better build a time machine and go tell the Sons of Liberty and the sans-culottes.

Also... thanks for reminding me that Reagan was a horrible human being.

[Liriena]

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeh, while referring to all Trump supporters as "racist Nazi hate mongers" would be very unfair, statistics don't paint a very flattering picture of them.

Do we have a statistic for how many people were assaulted at Berkeley? I'm sure those statistics paint a flattering picture of of these protesters

Perhaps.

Now, what was the point of you attempting an equivalency here?

[The Grene Knyght]

No matter the source of news, an incident happened last night on the University of California campus at Berkeley. In response to a scheduled talk by Milo Yiannopoulos, crowds assembled to shut down the talk. Not to listen to what Milo was going to say, not to ask him questions after the talk, and certainly not to make sure that people interested in listening to an opinion had a chance to consider other points of view.

As Milo himself has said in the past, if somebody is wrong talk about it. Shine the light on it. But apparently those outside the venue couldn't afford to have any lights shown on opinions they disagree with.

On the other side, the protesting side, they apparently take the Noam Chomsky position; "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....” If an opinion is unacceptable, you apparently have license to limit it.

Whatever one's opinion of Milo is, does that opinion really validate the decision to shut down free speech? Especially on a campus meant for higher education?

Is the modern University not the last place where free speech should knuckle under to the rule of the brick? Or is that a dreadfully 20th-century opinion?

conversely, an acquaintance of mine was recently arrested at an anti-milo protest...

[Dai Heiwa]

Good job Antifa, you gave a bigger podium to the hack.

[Liriena]

Good job Antifa, you gave a bigger podium to the hack.

To be fair, the opportunistic hack would try to spin even a peaceful protest in his favor.

[Oil exporting People]

You do not have a right to riot.

Someone better build a time machine and go tell the Sons of Liberty and the sans-culottes.

Also... thanks for reminding me that Reagan was a horrible human being.

Whataboutism is not, nor has even been, a valid defense.

[Dai Heiwa]

Good job Antifa, you gave a bigger podium to the hack.

To be fair, the opportunistic hack would try to spin even a peaceful protest in his favor.

Without doubt, but he wouldn't get a higher ground.

[Liriena]

Someone better build a time machine and go tell the Sons of Liberty and the sans-culottes.

Also... thanks for reminding me that Reagan was a horrible human being.

Whataboutism is not, nor has even been, a valid defense.

Fair enough.

Besides, if you're going to be violent, don't be violent towards an inanimate object. Punch an actual, living nazi. It's what Mr Rogers would have wanted.

[Oil exporting People]

Besides, if you're going to be violent, don't be violent towards an inanimate object. Punch an actual, living nazi. It's what Mr Rogers would have wanted.

If I am understanding this line correctly, you are advocating for violent action against Milo and his followers, yes?