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Trump MAGAThread IV: Twixt Scylla & Some Bad Hombres

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:11 pm

Gauthier wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
We did the same thing in Colombia and Panama.

Trump is a hell of a lot more impulsive and reckless than Clinton. Bush or Obama. More likely than not significant troop movement would be involved.

I just want to remind everyone what kind of a bar that is to be more reckless than bush.
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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:12 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Pimps Inc wrote:He threatened to send troops into Mexico to "fight narco-traffickers". That's it. Trump is an idiot in world politics. It's one idiotic thing to ban people from countries in civil war or that we have military intervention in, but to threaten to invade a regional ally and neighbor?

Congress would never approve going to war with Mexico.

Congress has the balls to stand up to him and his internet fanboys?
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Uxupox
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Postby Uxupox » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:12 pm

Gauthier wrote:
Uxupox wrote:
Mexico has never been an american regional ally.

Trump inspiring the cartels and Daesh to team up against the U.S. Absolutely brilliant.


Daesh and Cartels teaming up? I distinctly remember that the Mexican Cartels told ISIS to fuck off and threatened to behead them a couple of times.
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Lady Scylla
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Posts: 15291
Founded: Nov 22, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Lady Scylla » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:13 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
Gauthier wrote:Trump inspiring the cartels and Daesh to team up against the U.S. Absolutely brilliant.


We still out-gun both, and anything, that is even more incentive t secure our border.


By creating a threat, and then hiding from it. Brilliant.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:13 pm

Gauthier wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Congress would never approve going to war with Mexico.

Congress has the balls to stand up to him and his internet fanboys?

You really think they would approve going to war with Mexico? If they did the entire military should defy the order.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:13 pm

Betoni wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
Daesh CALLS for attacks. Trump hasn't. Nice try though.


Trump calls for his military to attack the same as ISIS. In all honesty I don't see much difference in the targets either, not that Obama did any better.


Trump also called for people to assassinate Hillary. Or are we trying to pretend that never happened?
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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:13 pm

Uxupox wrote:
Sarigen wrote:I don't like many of his policy ideas, and worry about what his plans for trade will do to Canada; with Canada being my own Country.

It also seems candidly strange that all the Christians and conservatives are supporting trump. He's had multiple divorces, made crude comments while married, couldn't think of a favourite part of the Bible. It's just really strange to me.

I doubt the world will end, but I'll be surprised (although perhaps pleasantly so), if Trump is a good president that is loved enough to be re-elected.


Religious folk are not a hive mind.


Most religions damn sure try to enforce a hive-like conformity on every one they can.
Last edited by Big Jim P on Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kravanica
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Postby Kravanica » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:13 pm

It still sounds surreal to say it: Donald Trump is our president.
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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:14 pm

Uxupox wrote:
Gauthier wrote:Trump inspiring the cartels and Daesh to team up against the U.S. Absolutely brilliant.


Daesh and Cartels teaming up? I distinctly remember that the Mexican Cartels told ISIS to fuck off and threatened to behead them a couple of times.

And if Trump sends in the military into Mexico they'd probably reconsider rather convincingly.
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
The probability of one's participation in homosexual acts is directly proportional to one's public disdain and disgust for homosexuals.
If a political figure makes an accusation of wrongdoing without evidence, odds are probable that the accuser or an associate thereof has in fact committed the very same act, possibly to a worse degree.
Where is your God-Emperor now?

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Uxupox
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Postby Uxupox » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:14 pm

Socialist Nordia wrote:
Uxupox wrote:
Mexico has never been an american regional ally.

It absolutely has.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-31699344
Mexico

During an official visit by President Enrique Pena Nieto in January, Mr Obama called Mexico "one of our closest allies, neighbours and friends".
Mexico was the US's third largest trading partner in 2014 and more than $20bn (£13.6bn) in remittances is directed back to Mexico each year from families working in the US.
Mexico wants the US to reform its immigration laws, which will impact on millions of Mexicans living in the US, and the US has put some pressure - critics say not enough - on Mexico to combat organised crime and violence.
The Cuba thaw has also won Mr Obama accolades from Mexico.
Personal relationship with Obama: Mr Pena Nieto and Mr Obama seem to get along well. Amid their own political troubles at home, they have used bilateral meetings to focus on the "good news" of economic exchange between the two countries.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... b566b7853f


So is every country that we currently trade with our ally? There is absolutely no mutual defense agreement between the United States and Mexico.
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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:14 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Betoni wrote:
Trump calls for his military to attack the same as ISIS. In all honesty I don't see much difference in the targets either, not that Obama did any better.


Trump also called for people to assassinate Hillary. Or are we trying to pretend that never happened?

By "Second Amendment People" he meant people using their guns to vote against Hillary Clinton, duh.
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
The probability of one's participation in homosexual acts is directly proportional to one's public disdain and disgust for homosexuals.
If a political figure makes an accusation of wrongdoing without evidence, odds are probable that the accuser or an associate thereof has in fact committed the very same act, possibly to a worse degree.
Where is your God-Emperor now?

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:15 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
Galloism wrote:Does that include detaining people without charge and denying them access to an attorney in direct defiance of a federal court order?


Are you talking about violtors of the legal (and precedented) travel ban?


Well, do you agree detaining dual citizens, permanent residents, and other visa holders and denying them access to an attorney in direct defiance of a federal court order to halt a travel ban that affects these people because of how hamfisted the measure was? Oh, and let's not forget the kicker: detaining these people without due process is against the 14th amendment's due process clause.
Last edited by Soldati Senza Confini on Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lady Scylla
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Founded: Nov 22, 2015
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Postby Lady Scylla » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:16 pm

Kravanica wrote:It still sounds surreal to say it: Donald Trump is our president.


Eh, not really.
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Camicon
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Camicon » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:16 pm

Gauthier wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Trump also called for people to assassinate Hillary. Or are we trying to pretend that never happened?

By "Second Amendment People" he meant people using their guns to vote against Hillary Clinton, duh.

Second Amendment guarantees the right of every firearm to vote. Doesn't everyone know that?
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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:16 pm

Gauthier wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Trump also called for people to assassinate Hillary. Or are we trying to pretend that never happened?

By "Second Amendment People" he meant people using their guns to vote against Hillary Clinton, duh.


Still clinging to that bullshit? :rofl:

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Blakk Metal
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Postby Blakk Metal » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:16 pm

The post I'm responding to.

You're ignoring the context. I was saying banning all Muslims was a better idea than killing tons of people in Afganistan.

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Lady Scylla
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Founded: Nov 22, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Lady Scylla » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:17 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
Gauthier wrote:By "Second Amendment People" he meant people using their guns to vote against Hillary Clinton, duh.


Still clinging to that bullshit? :rofl:


To be fair, that statement of his was plenty ambiguous enough for it to be construed that way.
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Seangoli
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Seangoli » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:17 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
Galloism wrote:Does that include detaining people without charge and denying them access to an attorney in direct defiance of a federal court order?


Are you talking about violtors of the legal (and precedented) travel ban?


It was not legal, hence the court challenges to barring those with the legal right of entry into the United States. Equally, I fail to find how the Jordanian kid who was detained under the ban, who was an actual US citizen, and who's heritage was not from one of the fore-named countries (And was not traveling from said countries), was "violating" the ban.

Just because the President signs an EO does not in and of itself make the order legal - particularly when it violates the rights afforded to legal residents of the United States. Barring those who have legal right of entry from enterring the United States is unprecedented, and unconstitutional.
Last edited by Seangoli on Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:17 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
Galloism wrote:Does that include detaining people without charge and denying them access to an attorney in direct defiance of a federal court order?


Are you talking about violtors of the legal (and precedented) travel ban?

No. I'm talking about people who were in no violation of any law and just happened to be in the air when trump signed something stupid.

In any case, are you saying that you are in agreement in Trump defying a federal court, detaining people without trial, and deliberately denying them the right to an attorney?

I'd disagree with that if they were all serial killers much less innocent travelers trying to see their families or get home.
Last edited by Galloism on Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Seangoli
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Seangoli » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:18 pm

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
Are you talking about violtors of the legal (and precedented) travel ban?


Well, do you agree detaining dual citizens, permanent residents, and other visa holders and denying them access to an attorney in direct defiance of a federal court order to halt a travel ban that affects these people because of how hamfisted the measure was? Oh, and let's not forget the kicker: detaining these people without due process is against the 14th amendment's due process clause.


Oh, you see, the Courts have no place to determine the legality of issues. If the President says so, it's legal.

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Socialist Nordia
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Postby Socialist Nordia » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:19 pm

Uxupox wrote:
Socialist Nordia wrote:It absolutely has.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-31699344
Mexico

During an official visit by President Enrique Pena Nieto in January, Mr Obama called Mexico "one of our closest allies, neighbours and friends".
Mexico was the US's third largest trading partner in 2014 and more than $20bn (£13.6bn) in remittances is directed back to Mexico each year from families working in the US.
Mexico wants the US to reform its immigration laws, which will impact on millions of Mexicans living in the US, and the US has put some pressure - critics say not enough - on Mexico to combat organised crime and violence.
The Cuba thaw has also won Mr Obama accolades from Mexico.
Personal relationship with Obama: Mr Pena Nieto and Mr Obama seem to get along well. Amid their own political troubles at home, they have used bilateral meetings to focus on the "good news" of economic exchange between the two countries.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... b566b7853f


So is every country that we currently trade with our ally? There is absolutely no mutual defense agreement between the United States and Mexico.

There was until 2002, but mutual defence agreements are by no means the single determining factor of whether two nations are "allies".
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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:20 pm

Seangoli wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Well, do you agree detaining dual citizens, permanent residents, and other visa holders and denying them access to an attorney in direct defiance of a federal court order to halt a travel ban that affects these people because of how hamfisted the measure was? Oh, and let's not forget the kicker: detaining these people without due process is against the 14th amendment's due process clause.


Oh, you see, the Courts have no place to determine the legality of issues. If the President says so, it's legal.


Apparently, the constitution doesn't matter in cases of due process either, so we can just plant evidence for gun owners to have their guns revoked *nods*
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Big Jim P
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53087
Founded: Antiquity
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Postby Big Jim P » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:20 pm

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
Are you talking about violtors of the legal (and precedented) travel ban?


Well, do you agree detaining dual citizens, permanent residents, and other visa holders and denying them access to an attorney in direct defiance of a federal court order to halt a travel ban that affects these people because of how hamfisted the measure was? Oh, and let's not forget the kicker: detaining these people without due process is against the 14th amendment's due process clause.



Detaining dual citizens or permanent residents I disagree with. Visas however can be revoked.

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Paddy O Fernature
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Posts: 9146
Founded: Sep 30, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Paddy O Fernature » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:20 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Pimps Inc wrote:He threatened to send troops into Mexico to "fight narco-traffickers". That's it. Trump is an idiot in world politics. It's one idiotic thing to ban people from countries in civil war or that we have military intervention in, but to threaten to invade a regional ally and neighbor?

Congress would never approve going to war with Mexico.


Good thing nobody said anything of the sort.

Again.

:roll:

Big Jim P wrote:
Gauthier wrote:By "Second Amendment People" he meant people using their guns to vote against Hillary Clinton, duh.


Still clinging to that bullshit? :rofl:


You expected anything less?
Last edited by Paddy O Fernature on Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Uxupox
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Postby Uxupox » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:21 pm

Socialist Nordia wrote:
Uxupox wrote:
So is every country that we currently trade with our ally? There is absolutely no mutual defense agreement between the United States and Mexico.

There was until 2002, but mutual defence agreements are by no means the single determining factor of whether two nations are "allies".


And ultimately words are wind with no binding clauses that obligates us to help and contribute to each other.
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