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Trump MAGAThread IV: Twixt Scylla & Some Bad Hombres

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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:44 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:So apparently Police are guarding the Obama care replacement bill and actively barring anyone from reading it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/rand-paul-blocked-reading-secret-draft-obamacare-repeal-article-1.2986995

Nope, not suspicious at all.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:47 pm

Shofercia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I've left the goalposts where I found them. You said "Considering all of the leaks, if there was anything that would make Trump look like a traitor in his tax returns, it would've been leaked by now." A lot of things could make Trump look like a traitor, even if they wouldn't constitute the crime of treason.


Really? Because earlier you said this:

Ifreann wrote:So what you're telling me is that the IRS would definitely leak Trump's tax returns if there was anything in them that would damage Trump, unless it's just Trump avoiding taxes as far as he possibly can...


Which is a far cry from betrayal. Maybe Trump doesn't want to release his taxes because he doesn't want to show how little he made? Would releasing that damage Trump? Maybe. Is that Trump betraying anyone? Nope. But sure, the goalposts stayed exactly where they are, uh-huh:

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Yes, I took you saying "make Trump look like a traitor" to mean "make Trump look bad". I didn't think that your defence of Trump would amount to "We can be reasonably confident that he hasn't literally committed treason".
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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:49 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
Really? Because earlier you said this:



Which is a far cry from betrayal. Maybe Trump doesn't want to release his taxes because he doesn't want to show how little he made? Would releasing that damage Trump? Maybe. Is that Trump betraying anyone? Nope. But sure, the goalposts stayed exactly where they are, uh-huh:

Image

Yes, I took you saying "make Trump look like a traitor" to mean "make Trump look bad". I didn't think that your defence of Trump would amount to "We can be reasonably confident that he hasn't literally committed treason".


My defense of Trump? Where was I defending Trump? Show me, where? Stop bullshitting Ifreann.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:49 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
Really? Because earlier you said this:



Which is a far cry from betrayal. Maybe Trump doesn't want to release his taxes because he doesn't want to show how little he made? Would releasing that damage Trump? Maybe. Is that Trump betraying anyone? Nope. But sure, the goalposts stayed exactly where they are, uh-huh:

Image

Yes, I took you saying "make Trump look like a traitor" to mean "make Trump look bad". I didn't think that your defence of Trump would amount to "We can be reasonably confident that he hasn't literally committed treason".


i am confident that, given the strict definition in the constitution, he has not committed treason

I'm not 100% sure he isn't in some kind of cahoots with the Russians.
whatever
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St Salvador
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Postby St Salvador » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:38 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:So apparently Police are guarding the Obama care replacement bill and actively barring anyone from reading it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/rand-paul-blocked-reading-secret-draft-obamacare-repeal-article-1.2986995

Damn they won't even let other Republicans read it.
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Postby Camicon » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:46 pm

St Salvador wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:So apparently Police are guarding the Obama care replacement bill and actively barring anyone from reading it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/rand-paul-blocked-reading-secret-draft-obamacare-repeal-article-1.2986995

Damn they won't even let other Republicans read it.

Probably because there's nothing to read.
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Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:56 pm


Too bad her campaign convienently never bothered to use that.
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AiliailiA
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Postby AiliailiA » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:34 am

Shofercia wrote:
Galloism wrote:I never knew before that the IRS was the last line of defense against tyranny.


The things you learn on NSG :P

Seriously though, I honestly think that if the IRS thought that the president was a traitor, and had proof, they'd disclose it.


This is weirdest defense of Trump I've seen yet. As if we now live in a world where leaks are the norm and ... this is literally your argument ... that lack of leaks, is evidence that there is nothing to leak.

"Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack" ring any bells?

It is illegal to disclose tax records (without permission of the taxpayer involved) and the leaker wouldn't be a hacker under the protection of the Russian security services. They'd be a US federal employee, they'd very likely be caught, and if caught they'd be prosecuted.



I think if we just wait a year or so, all of Trump's tax returns will be examined ... by House Judiciary, in the impeachment investigation. Then another time, by the Senate in a conviction trial. Though that doesn't mean we ever get to see them.
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AiliailiA
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Postby AiliailiA » Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:10 am

It's perfectly true that as Indiana Governor, Pence would not regularly deal with classified matters. The way a Secretary of State is assumed to. The private email server, versus the AOL email server, aren't mistakes on the same scale.

But what Clinton did wrong struck me from the start as incompetence. As details emerged, it was aggravated by her refusal to take expert advice (specifically from the NSA). Knowingly endangering classified information ... not really. Deliberately disclosing it to persons without clearance (what Petraeus did) ... definitely not. Her email server, after all the fuss, turned out to be no worse than what it first appeared: an unwise choice, ie incompetence, and a bit worse than that when she disregarded professional advice.

Pence's AOL account was "hacked" two years after AOL publicly announced that their password database had been compromised (which I and I'm sure many of you also remember from the news). Of course, AOL also emailed every account holder advising them to change their passwords.

So weight up on one hand, that Pence's AOL account wasn't as critical as Clinton's private account. Call a draw on whether a dedicated server for only one account, is more secure than AOL's server (the FBI could not tell if Clinton's server had ever been hacked ... AOL's we know by their own admission, was hacked). And on the other hand ... what level of fuddy-duddy IT incompetence is it to be informed by the admins of the server that your password may now be in the hands of unknown hackers and you should change your password ... and then not do that?

Pence's account was NOT just for his private stuff. For the FOI demand which revealed that his account was hacked, many of his emails were withheld for being "sensitive" to state government business. Sensitive might not mean classified (or it actually might) but it's certainly not just Pence's private stuff.

AOL are famous for dumbing down the internet so anyone can use it. Apparently they didn't dumb it down enough for Mike Pence.


EDIT: By the way:

US Code 32 / 154.16 wrote:(4) State governors do not require personnel security clearances. They may be granted access to specifically designated classified information, on a “need-to-know” basis, based upon affirmation by the Secretary of Defense or the head of a DoD Component or single designee, that access, under the circumstances, serves the national interest. Staff personnel of a governor's office requiring access to classified information shall be investigated and cleared in accordance with the prescribed procedures of this part when the head of a DoD Component, or single designee, affirms that such clearance serves the national interest. Access shall also be limited to specifically designated classified information on a “need-to-know” basis.


(bolding mine)

Which, if I'm reading it right, means that Governors can be granted access to classified information without a personal background check.

In any case, it does not follow from the fact that Governors do not need security clearance, that Governors never have access to classified information. Considering that every state has a some kind of Federal military facility in it, and logistic details of those facilities would likely be classified ...
Last edited by AiliailiA on Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:24 am

Ailiailia wrote:It's perfectly true that as Indiana Governor, Pence would not regularly deal with classified matters.


Not entirely true. With the rise of terrorist threats, information about security and first response actions after an attack would be topic of discussion frequently.
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AiliailiA
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Postby AiliailiA » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:25 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Ailiailia wrote:It's perfectly true that as Indiana Governor, Pence would not regularly deal with classified matters.


Not entirely true. With the rise of terrorist threats, information about security and first response actions after an attack would be topic of discussion frequently.


Was there a terrorist incident in Indiana during Pence's term? I don't remember one.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:49 am

Ailiailia wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Not entirely true. With the rise of terrorist threats, information about security and first response actions after an attack would be topic of discussion frequently.


Was there a terrorist incident in Indiana during Pence's term? I don't remember one.


Nope. But there were plans to prevent one; plans what to do when one did occur etc.
All matters of national security.
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AiliailiA
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Postby AiliailiA » Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:42 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Ailiailia wrote:
Was there a terrorist incident in Indiana during Pence's term? I don't remember one.


Nope. But there were plans to prevent one; plans what to do when one did occur etc.
All matters of national security.


Yeah OK.

It's mentioned in the Indiana Star article that Pence had a "homeland security advisor". Not much point in that unless Pence and his adviser were free to discuss classified matters, I think.

The Indiana Star also claimed that Pence and the homeland security advisor (whose name was John Hill) exchanged emails, but those were not among the emails released under FOI.

The administration back home in Indiana will cover Pence's ass, but I wouldn't want to be Pence just now. Out there are some small time criminals who may-or-may-not have all his emails up until 2016. They haven't leaked them, probably means they didn't keep them (just went the short con on his contact list) ... but not for sure. The hackers might still have them, just trying to find a buyer. They might give up on selling them, or decide it's too risky, and leak them for nothing. Pence will never know for sure ... I wouldn't want to be him.
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Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
Ethel mermania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
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What are the colons meant to convey here?
In my experience Colons usually convey shit
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:37 am

Shofercia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Yes, I took you saying "make Trump look like a traitor" to mean "make Trump look bad". I didn't think that your defence of Trump would amount to "We can be reasonably confident that he hasn't literally committed treason".


My defense of Trump? Where was I defending Trump? Show me, where? Stop bullshitting Ifreann.

"Considering all of the leaks, if there was anything that would make Trump look like a traitor in his tax returns, it would've been leaked by now."
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Corrian
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Postby Corrian » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:14 am


She's probably facepalming so hard.
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Corrian
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Postby Corrian » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:36 am

Oh my god, this comment my sister found:
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:37 am

y'all are so behind the curve.

TODAY"S scandal is that trump has spent the morning accusing Obama of wiretapping trump tower. these are his tweets of the last 2 hours, oldest first
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The first meeting Jeff Sessions had with the Russian Amb was set up by the Obama Administration under education program for 100 Ambs......



Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!



Just out: The same Russian Ambassador that met Jeff Sessions visited the Obama White House 22 times, and 4 times last year alone.



Is it legal for a sitting President to be "wire tapping" a race for president prior to an election? Turned down by court earlier. A NEW LOW!



I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!


How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!


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13 minutes ago

Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't voluntarily leaving the Apprentice, he was fired by his bad (pathetic) ratings, not by me. Sad end to great show


the one i love most is the suggestion that a GOOD LAWYER could make something out of the wire tapping. did he forget that he is president and his "good lawyer" is the attorney general backed up by the freaking FBI?
whatever
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Corrian
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Postby Corrian » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:42 am

My god, does he ever not act ridiculous? Does he ever realize there are bigger issues, like the fact his Attorney General may be shit? Deflecting I'm sure.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:43 am

Ashmoria wrote:y'all are so behind the curve.

TODAY"S scandal is that trump has spent the morning accusing Obama of wiretapping trump tower. these are his tweets of the last 2 hours, oldest first
Donald J. Trump‏
Verified account
 @realDonaldTrump 2h
2 hours ago



The first meeting Jeff Sessions had with the Russian Amb was set up by the Obama Administration under education program for 100 Ambs......



Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!



Just out: The same Russian Ambassador that met Jeff Sessions visited the Obama White House 22 times, and 4 times last year alone.



Is it legal for a sitting President to be "wire tapping" a race for president prior to an election? Turned down by court earlier. A NEW LOW!



I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!


How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!


Donald J. Trump‏
Verified account
 @realDonaldTrump 13m
13 minutes ago

Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't voluntarily leaving the Apprentice, he was fired by his bad (pathetic) ratings, not by me. Sad end to great show


the one i love most is the suggestion that a GOOD LAWYER could make something out of the wire tapping. did he forget that he is president and his "good lawyer" is the attorney general backed up by the freaking FBI?

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:52 am

Just out: The same Russian Ambassador that met Jeff Sessions visited the Obama White House 22 times, and 4 times last year alone.

"Congratulations, Great One. We have uncovered the mysteries of Diplomacy. What shall our wise sages busy themselves with now?"
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:53 am

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 5818287106

Trump is claiming Obama pulled a Nixon and wiretapped Trump before his election victory.

Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:53 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Just out: The same Russian Ambassador that met Jeff Sessions visited the Obama White House 22 times, and 4 times last year alone.

"Congratulations, Great One. We have uncovered the mysteries of Diplomacy. What shall our wise sages busy themselves with now?"

he is so astoundingly stupid.
whatever
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:54 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/837989835818287106

Trump is claiming Obama pulled a Nixon and wiretapped Trump before his election victory.

Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!


but how did he find out? breitbart?
whatever
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:55 am

Camicon wrote:
St Salvador wrote:Damn they won't even let other Republicans read it.

Probably because there's nothing to read.

If there's nothing to read why not let people see it has nothing in it?
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