Trump MAGAThread IV: Twixt Scylla & Some Bad Hombres

[Gauthier]

Oh yes, you can foster chaos. But note how you basically said that the chaos-maker wants to be in control by throwing others into disarray, not by throwing his own plans into disarray.

In other words, even the chaos-maker's disorder has an order he follows and he just doesn't do things randomly and haphazardly. He has a reason for every calculated move. Trump doesn't seem to have calculated moves and his style centers more around rolling with the punches.

Which is another issue. I'd describe his plan so far as throwing different types of goo at the wall, and seeing what sticks.

And to pull off the chaos bit, you'd need to be calculating and reserved with a full understanding of the system you're toying with. Trump has none of these.

Trump is playing Connect Four but his hardcore worshippers point to it and say he's the master of 4-D chess.

[Ashmoria]

Which is another issue. I'd describe his plan so far as throwing different types of goo at the wall, and seeing what sticks.

And to pull off the chaos bit, you'd need to be calculating and reserved with a full understanding of the system you're toying with. Trump has none of these.

Trump is playing Connect Four but his hardcore worshippers point to it and say he's the master of 4-D chess.

he does have a certain genius for bullshit and manipulation. that's how he got elected and its not going away now.

it will be a disaster unless the media and congress get their act together to insist on things that are GOOD for the country.

[Herskerstad]

And at that point I think the disagreements reached a place where we are simply communicating over each-other. Although I think we have established that you imagine Trump, the billionaire POTUS, to be incompetent whereas I dissent, I never communicated that Trumps future appointments would not be important. In fact, they will form part of the basis for his power and it is not as if he would not fill said positions.

You're thinking that competence is defined by how much money you have in your bank account by the fact you keep calling him "billionaire POTUS".

He's not as competent as you make him seem by repeating the same line over and over about his fortune. And the more you do repeat the same line about his wealth, the more incompetent you make him seem because apparently to you that's his only redeeming quality, that he made lots of money.

Do not elevate your opinion of yourself to the point that you feel comfortable ascribing the internal metrics of how others reach their conclusions. While I am fine with pointing out the external aspects of our disagreements, I would never pretend ascribe what you're thinking. I might raise the question if or even go against that principle for a short moment if I am frustrated, but I imagine you as a principled individual whom on review see how condescending that sounds.

On the point itself, competence is if anything a multifaceted and nuanced concept and I'd be the first to say that Trump has a number of deficits. Childlike optimism, lack of Charisma, lack of just about any academic presentation, clearly not educated well on history, willingness to bring things into a scorched earth policy if need be in order to win. However, if there were two qualities which as of now I would seem as irrational to ascribe to Trump. It would be the likes of unsuccessful and a failure. His record and life as a whole seem to contradict these two time and time again and the ventures he have that are successful outnumber those which are not, and we are not talking small stakes or minor achievements either. The dealings, people hired, methods, situations, turnarounds and general MO of the man is more intriguing than it is not and certainly does not spell singular incompetence throughout, particularly considering his place in our modern times. I do ultimately believe Trump's qualities in running an organisation and joint strategizing is of greater impact than his twitter tantrums. Although I will admit for having a weakness for a politician that so easily reveals what is on his mind.

[Great Franconia and Verana]

Anyone else watch Bill Maher's new rule last night about the "Magic (R)" and actually realize he was basically right?

[Migdal Bavel]

The poverty rate at the end of 2015 was actually 13.5%. Meanwhile, Venezuela's poverty rate is 76%. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/06/09/world/social-issues-world/dumpster-diving-hunger-venezuela-economy-tanks-76-people-poverty-line/

Oh, I was pulling from 2013, so thanks for the correction.

Still doesn't change the fact that that mean that 43+ million Americans are living in poverty (Slightly less than 45 million), which is still larger than Venezuela's entire population (31 million).

I just noticed this going through the thread: Venezuala's poverty line isn't actually the same as the USA's. Comparing them is pretty much meaningless. Also, the absolute number in poverty is a meaningless statistic (New Jersey has more people in poverty than Mississippi), and China is richer than the USA depending on your measure.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

On the point itself, competence is if anything a multifaceted and nuanced concept and I'd be the first to say that Trump has a number of deficits. Childlike optimism, lack of Charisma, lack of just about any academic presentation, clearly not educated well on history, willingness to bring things into a scorched earth policy if need be in order to win. However, if there were two qualities which as of now I would seem as irrational to ascribe to Trump. It would be the likes of unsuccessful and a failure. His record and life as a whole seem to contradict these two time and time again and the ventures he have that are successful outnumber those which are not, and we are not talking small stakes or minor achievements either. The dealings, people hired, methods, situations, turnarounds and general MO of the man is more intriguing than it is not and certainly does not spell singular incompetence throughout, particularly considering his place in our modern times. I do ultimately believe Trump's qualities in running an organisation and joint strategizing is of greater impact than his twitter tantrums. Although I will admit for having a weakness for a politician that so easily reveals what is on his mind.

I never said he was unsuccessful or a failure. I did say he is average, which I do think he is average.

In so far as his record of successes and failures, he's just like any other person born in a rich family: he had a bunch of successes, but for every success there are failures along the way. In that sense, he is nothing but average, and I ascribe to him nothing but average features of success in that regard.

While there were "big stakes" and "big achievements", that's something anyone inheriting a fortune like the one his father left him can do for themselves. The more money you have, the more you can fuck up. That's just how it is. To pretend otherwise is a fallacy.

His record and life as a rich man are nothing but the record and life of an average rich investor raised be a rich investor who knew how to play the real estate market. Nothing more, nothing less. That doesn't make him nearly prepared to deal with a position like president. That simply makes him an average rich guy. And to say he is competent at one thing while being competent at another is disingenuous. He is competent at real estate, but he hasn't shown the same sort of competency in politics so far. And while his MO doesn't show incompetence throughout, he has shown he is incompetent at the presidency nevertheless, regardless of how competent he is at running his organization.

I am not saying he is a failure, but that the myth that he is a genius and successful, transformative businessman who understands the presidency and has some sort of overarching agenda for his presidency is just that, a myth. He's average as a businessman, and not that competent at understanding and administrating a position of public power like the presidency.

[Lady Scylla]

On the point itself, competence is if anything a multifaceted and nuanced concept and I'd be the first to say that Trump has a number of deficits. Childlike optimism, lack of Charisma, lack of just about any academic presentation, clearly not educated well on history, willingness to bring things into a scorched earth policy if need be in order to win. However, if there were two qualities which as of now I would seem as irrational to ascribe to Trump. It would be the likes of unsuccessful and a failure. His record and life as a whole seem to contradict these two time and time again and the ventures he have that are successful outnumber those which are not, and we are not talking small stakes or minor achievements either. The dealings, people hired, methods, situations, turnarounds and general MO of the man is more intriguing than it is not and certainly does not spell singular incompetence throughout, particularly considering his place in our modern times. I do ultimately believe Trump's qualities in running an organisation and joint strategizing is of greater impact than his twitter tantrums. Although I will admit for having a weakness for a politician that so easily reveals what is on his mind.

I never said he was unsuccessful or a failure. I did say he is average, which I do think he is average.

In so far as his record of successes and failures, he's just like any other person born in a rich family: he had a bunch of successes, but for every success there are failures along the way. In that sense, he is nothing but average, and I ascribe to him nothing but average features of success in that regard.

While there were "big stakes" and "big achievements", that's something anyone inheriting a fortune like the one his father left him can do for themselves. The more money you have, the more you can fuck up. That's just how it is. To pretend otherwise is a fallacy.

His record and life as a rich man are nothing but the record and life of an average rich investor. Nothing more, nothing less. That doesn't make him nearly prepared to deal with a position like president. That simply makes him an average rich guy. And to say he is competent at one thing while being competent at another is disingenuous. He is competent at real estate, but he hasn't shown the same sort of competency in politics so far. And while his MO doesn't show incompetence throughout, he has shown he is incompetent at the presidency nevertheless, regardless how competent he is at running his organization.

I'd have far more respect for him if he started with nothing. His investments were by no means genius, luck was the only thing that gave him his 'empire', luck and the propensity to be ruthless. And being ruthless is not a sign of intelligence, nor competence.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'd have far more respect for him if he started with nothing. His investments were by no means genius, luck was the only thing that gave him his 'empire', luck and the propensity to be ruthless. And being ruthless is not a sign of intelligence, nor competence.

For the most part, luck really had nothing to do with it.

His dad loaned him a million dollars to buy real estate in New York. His dad was a real estate investor.

In that sense he simply followed his dad's footsteps because he thought it was easy to do.

That doesn't make him a genius, or lucky, that simply is the practical thing to do. If your dad was a computer repairperson, you're more than likely to be one if he lets you participate in the company. If your dad is an investor and you pay attention to what he does and hang around him, you learn how to be a decent investor and you become an investor. Not because you think you can strike a fortune through luck, but because you know you can already make one in that field since you know how to work and make money in that field and is easy for you. That's not luck, that pragmatic thinking.

To be certain, I have nothing against Trump and his fortune. He did the practical thing to do which is to inherit his dad's empire and grow it. I'm not gonna knock him for that, even I would have done the same if I was in his shoes. I have a problem with people who romanticize it to make a point that he's going to be a good president.

[Gauthier]

Anyone else watch Bill Maher's new rule last night about the "Magic (R)" and actually realize he was basically right?

IOKIYAR is stronger than ever.

[Ifreann]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/832950628750127106

What.

Donald Trump is clearly donating his properties to the state for the use of future presidents.

---

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/832950628750127106

What.

So that Golf Club he loves so much is now a second white house.

Third. Mar-A-Lago is the Winter White House. No word on whether his tower in New York is another White House yet.

[Valrifell]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/832950628750127106

What.

Donald Trump is clearly donating his properties to the state for the use of future presidents.

---

So that Golf Club he loves so much is now a second white house.

Third. Mar-A-Lago is the Winter White House. No word on whether his tower in New York is another White House yet.

I vote we call it the "Really Tall White House"

[Ifreann]

Donald Trump is clearly donating his properties to the state for the use of future presidents.

---

Third. Mar-A-Lago is the Winter White House. No word on whether his tower in New York is another White House yet.

I vote we call it the "Really Tall White House"

I like it.

[Cattle Mutilators]

They don't call you, you go directly to them and then go to MEPS.

And if you're too old to join the military...?

[Uiiop]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/us/p ... C1&gwt=pay
voicing complains to the press can now get you fired.
*Sigh*

[Jamzmania]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/us/politics/shermichael-singleton-housing-urban-development.html?mtrref=thehill.com&gwh=9CFDF86155DE25CCD23EE1F8069548C1&gwt=pay
voicing complains can now get you fired.
*Sigh*

To be accurate, this was not a case of voicing complaints, but opinion pieces critical of Trump which surfaced.

[Fartsniffage]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/us/politics/shermichael-singleton-housing-urban-development.html?mtrref=thehill.com&gwh=9CFDF86155DE25CCD23EE1F8069548C1&gwt=pay
voicing complains can now get you fired.
*Sigh*

To be accurate, this was not a case of voicing complaints, but opinion pieces critical of Trump which surfaced.

To be more accurate, the opinion piece surfaced a while ago and the guy was employed anyway.

Just a guess but I imagine Trump only heard about it now.

[Vassenor]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/us/politics/shermichael-singleton-housing-urban-development.html?mtrref=thehill.com&gwh=9CFDF86155DE25CCD23EE1F8069548C1&gwt=pay
voicing complains can now get you fired.
*Sigh*

To be accurate, this was not a case of voicing complaints, but opinion pieces critical of Trump which surfaced.

Is it normal to fire people for their opinions?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/us/politics/shermichael-singleton-housing-urban-development.html?mtrref=thehill.com&gwh=9CFDF86155DE25CCD23EE1F8069548C1&gwt=pay
voicing complains to the press can now get you fired.
*Sigh*

I love the dig of the NY Times when they tell you that you reached your free article limit:

"Truth. Is grounded in facts. Discover it with us."

[Camicon]

I vote we call it the "Really Tall White House"

I like it.

Not the "Yuge White House"?

[Tekeristan]

I vote we call it the "Really Tall White House"

I like it.

70 floors!

[Ifreann]

To be accurate, this was not a case of voicing complaints, but opinion pieces critical of Trump which surfaced.

Is it normal to fire people for their opinions?

For Donald Trump? Probably.

[Pimps Inc]

So Roe of "Roe v Wade" died. Is that a premonition for the future?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

So Roe of "Roe v Wade" died. Is that a premonition for the future?

Perhaps a shimmer of hope. Law outlives man, and no matter how long a man lasts, the law with outlast him. 'Roe v. Wade' lives on.

[Eol Sha]

So Roe of "Roe v Wade" died. Is that a premonition for the future?

I decided to look her up. Norma McCorvey, or "Jane Roe", had a very complex relationship with the court case she was party to. Long story short, she ended up opposing Roe v. Wade and even tried to get the Supreme Court to reverse the 1973 ruling back in '05.

[Hittanryan]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/us/politics/shermichael-singleton-housing-urban-development.html?mtrref=thehill.com&gwh=9CFDF86155DE25CCD23EE1F8069548C1&gwt=pay
voicing complains can now get you fired.
*Sigh*

To be accurate, this was not a case of voicing complaints, but opinion pieces critical of Trump which surfaced.

Yes, lèse-majesté is a very serious offense in our culture. Wait...