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2017 New Zealand General Election Thread

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Who do you support in the 2017 General Election?

National
14
17%
Labour
22
27%
Greens
15
18%
New Zealand First
12
15%
ACT
6
7%
United Future
4
5%
Maori
6
7%
Opportunities Party
2
2%
Other
1
1%
 
Total votes : 82

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Costa Fierro
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2017 New Zealand General Election Thread

Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:01 pm

Now that Prime Minister Bill English has confirmed the date for this year's general election, campaigning is soon to begin. And this year should be interesting.

First off, we have National aiming to secure a fourth term in power, which is unprecedented in the era of MMP politics as Helen Clark and Labour only managed three terms before being voted out in 2008. Despite the resignation of the very popular John Key and Bill English's less than stellar leadership record (he had previously led National to one of its worst ever defeats in the 2002 general election), support for National remains high, with the latest Roy Morgan poll showing National with a comfortable support base of 46%. However, National has been criticized recently for its handling of the housing affordability crisis, with Auckland ranked as one of the most unaffordable housing markets in the world as well as questions regarding New Zealand's immigration policies and handling of foreign property buyers. English himself has also been questioned for his perceived "lack of leadership" regarding his lukewarm response to President Trump's immigration policies and not wishing to attend Waitangi this year.

Looking to change the status quo is Labour who have been struggling with leadership issues after the departure of Helen Clark following her defeat at the 2008 general election. Currently Labour is polling at 27%, down 1.5% from December 2016. Current leader Andrew Little is looking to turn around the three straight losses to National but with polls over the last two years showing two occasions where polling managed to break 30%, he is going to face a tough challenge ahead of him. Joining him in an unofficial coalition are then Green Party who have been increasing in support for a while now and are quickly becoming a good alternative to Labour, who have largely moved away from the centre-left era under Helen Clark and are moving back to its traditional role as a left-wing party, catering to traditional Labour voters, many of whom can be surprisingly conservative with their views on immigration. This was on show last year when Little claimed to have a list of house buyers with "Chinese sounding names".

New Zealand First has been seeing an unsurprising increase in support regarding the talk of housing affordability and immigration. Although the party has 9% support, it is enough support to put party leader Winston Peters into the role of kingmaker, something which he hasn't done in just over two decades. And the last time he was in this position, he went fishing for two weeks before he decided on a coalition. Expect him to drive home immigration restriction policies, something which could split the left-wing vote.

With regards to the minor parties, I don't expect much to change. United Future and the ACT Party are going to remain as strategic safe seats for National in the form of the current coalition and the Maori Party will also remain coalition partners. One minor party to look out for is The Opportunities Party currently lead by philanthropist Gareth Morgan who is seeking to change the government and launch a number of original and interesting policies, such as a levy on tourists entering New Zealand and a push for the creation of a written constitution. Kim Dotcom is also looking to come back and try to go for Parliament again. However, to do this he needs citizenship and given he was placed under investigation by police and arrested, it's very unlikely he will actually be able to run in this election.

I will also give a brief summary of the current parties:

National: Roughly left of the Democrats in the United States and analogous with the Conservatives in the United Kingdom.
Labour: Generic center-left to left-wing party analogous with Labour in the United Kingdom and Labor in Australia.
Greens: Broadly left-wing environmentalist party that has abandoned most of its anti-science hippy politicians and is probably the most sane and most mature of its kind in the Anglosphere.
New Zealand First: Broadly nationalistic party that is very conservative on immigration and Maori issues.
ACT: Somewhat vaguely libertarian right wing party that is pro- free market.
United Future: Centrist party that is only really known as being a one man show run by Peter Dunne.
Maori Party: Special interest party to represent Maori interests in Parliament.

And here is a cherry picked list of the websites for political parties for further investigation:
National
Labour
Greens
New Zealand First
ACT
United Future
Maori
Opportunities

And for a list of political parties that I haven't mentioned, see this Wikipedia link.

So Kiwis and non-Kiwis of NSG, which party do you support? If you are able to vote here, who will you vote for? If not, who would you vote for if you could? Personally as someone who has voted for National in the last two elections, I am currently on the fence about supporting National again. I have considered the Greens as they have decent policies (save for their continued anti-scientific stance on GMO's).
Last edited by Costa Fierro on Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:03 pm

Labor I suport.

But really, I would like PM Gandalf. :P
Last edited by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp on Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:08 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Labor I suport.

But really, I would like PM Gandalf. :P


Unfortunately we already have an an official wizard.
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Socialist Nordia
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Postby Socialist Nordia » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:12 pm

Labour and Greens both look good imo.
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:12 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Labor I suport.

But really, I would like PM Gandalf. :P


Unfortunately we already have an an official wizard.


:D That. Is. AWESOME!

You guys should vote him in.

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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:16 pm

tfw no mana feelsbadman

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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:17 pm

Socialist Nordia wrote:Labour and Greens both look good imo.


I like the Greens but they've basically tied themselves to a cement block with their strategic partnership with Labour. Andrew Little is really struggling to garner public support as his polling for preferred Prime Minister in recent months has been in single figures.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:18 pm

MERIZoC wrote:tfw no mana feelsbadman


yass
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The Shining Purple Light
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Postby The Shining Purple Light » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:22 pm

The Maori Party won my love when they sang a political version of Santa Baby.
Every week, month and year of accepting
The chronic dismissal of your body is wrong
Cause you have earned the little pieces of poetry
Inscribed across you, you're home.


They come in waves.
Kamikaze planes or
lovely flowers and sweet lullabies.
Blood boils,
slapping against my skin,
Sometimes.
My love is seasonal,
It won't stay.
Don't expect anything from me.
You will be bitterly disappointed.

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Radiatia
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Postby Radiatia » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:26 pm

Former National voter, I'm doing what I should have done a long time ago and voting for Winston this year.

Previously I've voted National mainly because I oppose Labour and the Greens than because I supported National.
Last edited by Radiatia on Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Collatis
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Postby Collatis » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:30 pm

Kim Dotcom 4ever

I would support Labour, although the NZ Greens certainly have an appeal to me that most other Green parties don't.

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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:44 pm

So is Labour going back to its roots?

Green are too hippy for me. Mana seems weird, but if they're comrades I'd support them.

Your local Social Credit party looks dead in the water, but interesting.
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Postby Atlanticatia » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:00 pm

I think that Labour is the right choice for this election. Andrew Little is ready to be a Prime Minister that will get things done that need to be done. Labour will invest in health, education, and jobs by reversing National's cuts to public services. We need to make sure that we have strong policies to protect public services, raise wages, protect the environment and fight climate change, and

National is no longer the party it was under John Key. It's not a liberal party, it's a right-wing party now. Bill English is socially conservative, who called refugees 'Middle East leftovers', voted against same-sex marriage, against prostitution reform, and has refused to forcefully condemn Trump's Muslim ban. In addition, Bill English has had a horrible record as finance minister: tax cuts for the rich paid for by higher debt, cuts to health and education, and slow movement on wage increases. Not to mention little action on child poverty.

A Labour-Green government will bring a fairer New Zealand that is more inclusive and prosperous. I also think that Jacinda Ardern should be appointed as Deputy Leader to complement Little after she wins the Mt Albert by-election.
Last edited by Atlanticatia on Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:17 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:A Labour-Green government will bring a fairer New Zealand that is more inclusive and prosperous. I also think that Jacinda Ardern should be appointed as Deputy Leader to complement Little after she wins the Mt Albert by-election.


There's also the Green Party and the TOP to watch out for in Mt Albert to and for TOP at least it's going to be a very good litmus test of popular support or awareness for the party.
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Atlanticatia
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Postby Atlanticatia » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:32 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
Atlanticatia wrote:A Labour-Green government will bring a fairer New Zealand that is more inclusive and prosperous. I also think that Jacinda Ardern should be appointed as Deputy Leader to complement Little after she wins the Mt Albert by-election.


There's also the Green Party and the TOP to watch out for in Mt Albert to and for TOP at least it's going to be a very good litmus test of popular support or awareness for the party.


lol the opportunities party needs to go away

remember when gareth morgan wanted to have a cat genocide?
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Pros: social democracy, LGBT+ rights, pro-choice, free education and health care, environmentalism, Nordic model, secularism, welfare state, multiculturalism
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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:42 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
There's also the Green Party and the TOP to watch out for in Mt Albert to and for TOP at least it's going to be a very good litmus test of popular support or awareness for the party.


lol the opportunities party needs to go away

remember when gareth morgan wanted to have a cat genocide?


I do indeed. But having looked at his proposed policies, some of them are quite interesting, if a little flawed. I'd be interested to see how far it gets. That and the fight between him and Winston Peters at Ratana was entertaining, so I want to see more of that.
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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:45 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
Socialist Nordia wrote:Labour and Greens both look good imo.


I like the Greens but they've basically tied themselves to a cement block with their strategic partnership with Labour. Andrew Little is really struggling to garner public support as his polling for preferred Prime Minister in recent months has been in single figures.


That's because people recognise that Little's labour is just waiting for the moment to turn on the foreigners the Asians the Chinese.

Voting for the Greens tacitly endorses the same, of course, but comes without the disadvantages of rewarding Labour or chucking one's lot in with the parties which either have no policies or bad ones.

As to the Opportunities Party... we can avoid more of the same re: immigration... the fewer such parties around, the better. However, cats are bad...

Atlanticatia wrote:remember when gareth morgan wanted to have a cat genocide?


Cats are an environmental disaster, ought not to be defended and if you let dogs roam around like cats are, you would be shot. That cats aren't microchipped in the way dogs are is not only illogical it actively denies the realities of their existence (they spread disease and indiscriminately slaughter native wildlife).
Last edited by Forsher on Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tsaraine
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Postby Tsaraine » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:46 pm

Cat genocide man will never have my vote. I'll probably vote Green for the first time ever - I used to vote Labour but they've been incredibly uninspiring and uninspired since Helen Clark left, I'm not sure they can organize their way out of a damp paper bag with the help of GPS and an orienteering club. Still, I guess the key to defeating Bill English and booting National out is a Labour/Greens coalition, as it has always been; I'll just be voting for the other half of it this time.

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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:59 pm

Forsher wrote:That's because people recognise that Little's labour is just waiting for the moment to turn on the foreigners the Asians the Chinese.


I don't think he's been waiting if his "Chinese sounding names list" is anything to go by.

Cats are an environmental disaster, ought not to be defended and if you let dogs roam around like cats are, you would be shot. That cats aren't microchipped in the way dogs are is not only illogical it actively denies the realities of their existence (they spread disease and indiscriminately slaughter native wildlife).


IIRC cats are also microchipped.
Last edited by Costa Fierro on Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:07 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
Forsher wrote:That's because people recognise that Little's labour is just waiting for the moment to turn on the foreigners the Asians the Chinese.


I don't think he's been waiting if his "Chinese sounding names list" is anything to go by.


Well, the Opposition, almost by definition, have to wait.

Cats are an environmental disaster, ought not to be defended and if you let dogs roam around like cats are, you would be shot. That cats aren't microchipped in the way dogs are is not only illogical it actively denies the realities of their existence (they spread disease and indiscriminately slaughter native wildlife).


IIRC cats are also microchipped.


I don't believe so...

Quite possibly just in Wellington.

In any case, it remains that the only difference between rats and cats is that more people keep cats as pets. They are a pest species and tighter regulations need to be implemented... I don't want your cat in the bush or on my property.
Last edited by Forsher on Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stop making shit up, though. Links, or it's a God-damn lie and you know it.

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:37 pm

Tsaraine wrote:Cat genocide man will never have my vote.


New Zealand politics now officially the most interesting thing ever.

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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:42 pm

Forsher wrote:Quite possibly just in Wellington.


I think it's a bylaw thing. I know both of my cats are microchipped.

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Tsaraine wrote:Cat genocide man will never have my vote.


New Zealand politics now officially the most interesting thing ever.


Not really. Gareth Morgan is known as a bit of an outlier in New Zealand politics and his comments regarding cats in New Zealand are controversial. He can come across sometimes as a bit of at attention seeker. After all, this is the man who rode the entire length of North Korea on a motorcyle and then drove through the DMZ.
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Bhikkustan
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Postby Bhikkustan » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:08 am

Forsher wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
I don't think he's been waiting if his "Chinese sounding names list" is anything to go by.


Well, the Opposition, almost by definition, have to wait.



IIRC cats are also microchipped.


I don't believe so...

Quite possibly just in Wellington.

In any case, it remains that the only difference between rats and cats is that more people keep cats as pets. They are a pest species and tighter regulations need to be implemented... I don't want your cat in the bush or on my property.

Those cats in Wellington are still out of control. I see them outside their owners houses hunting. Unsurprisingly, there are a lot of dead birds on the footpaths as well. Gareth Morgan gets my vote for that reason. (Or would if I was old enough)
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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:01 am

ACT, but I concur with Gandalf being the PM.

He can just shout "you shall not pass" whenever he vetos something.
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Radiatia
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Postby Radiatia » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:41 am

The Liberated Territories wrote:ACT, but I concur with Gandalf being the PM.

He can just shout "you shall not pass" whenever he vetos something.


As hilarious as that would be Prime Ministers don't have veto power.

Atlanticatia wrote:I think that Labour is the right choice for this election. Andrew Little is ready to be a Prime Minister that will get things done that need to be done. Labour will invest in health, education, and jobs by reversing National's cuts to public services. We need to make sure that we have strong policies to protect public services, raise wages, protect the environment and fight climate change, and


:rofl:

Really!? Are you sure you're not getting the NZ Labour Party confused with another, overseas Labour Party? Labour don't have a plan, or a clue, and they still don't even have a united Caucus.

Andrew Little is far too weak and indecisive to ever be Prime Minister - although I'll concede that he looks okay given that Bill English is just as terrible.

National is no longer the party it was under John Key. It's not a liberal party, it's a right-wing party now. Bill English is socially conservative, who called refugees 'Middle East leftovers', voted against same-sex marriage, against prostitution reform, and has refused to forcefully condemn Trump's Muslim ban.


Obviously I'm going to differ as I am social conservative on most things myself, in fact I welcome this compared to John Key who turned National into Labour-lite. However on economics, Bill English is actually a lot more centrist than John Key was, and this is emphasised by him getting rid of some of the more neo-liberal members of Cabinet.


In addition, Bill English has had a horrible record as finance minister: tax cuts for the rich paid for by higher debt, cuts to health and education, and slow movement on wage increases. Not to mention little action on child poverty.


I agree with this, but his policies are no different to those of Labour when they were in power last. They also had a housing bubble, didn't support exporters and had no ideas on how to increase productivity. They still don't - they're so unsure as to where jobs come from that they had to create a taskforce to find out.

A Labour-Green government will bring a fairer New Zealand that is more inclusive and prosperous. I also think that Jacinda Ardern should be appointed as Deputy Leader to complement Little after she wins the Mt Albert by-election.


Yeah, no.

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