NATION

PASSWORD

"anarcho" communism is an oxymoron

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Libertarian nationalist
Secretary
 
Posts: 35
Founded: Jan 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

"anarcho" communism is an oxymoron

Postby Libertarian nationalist » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:57 am

Merranium-Webster defines communism as:

a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production

Anarchy is the complete lack of government. How can government be abolished under communism if communism is when the state controls the economy?

Usually less government regulation would lead to a CAPITALIST, FREE MARIET SYSTEM, NOT A REGULATED COMMUNIST ONE.

These "anarcho" communists don't understand how anarchy work. Who are you to tell people they can't voluntarily live under a wage system? What right does "the community" have to dictate what people should do?

I just can't wrap my head around it.

User avatar
Herrebrugh
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15216
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
New York Times Democracy

Postby Herrebrugh » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:01 am


User avatar
Socialist Nordia
Senator
 
Posts: 4275
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Socialist Nordia » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:05 am

Anarchism emerged from the left wing, and had always been a left wing ideology until the relatively recent advent of anarcho-capitalism.

The entire original point of anarchism was to create a society without hierarchies, and if anything, the capitalist system of having people work for wages from others really violates this ideal.

Also, I'm not an anarchist, just pointing stuff out.
Last edited by Socialist Nordia on Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Internationalist Progressive Anarcho-Communist
I guess I'm a girl now.
Science > Your Beliefs
Trump did 11/9, never forget
Free Catalonia
My Political Test Results
A democratic socialist nation located on a small island in the Pacific. We are heavily urbanised, besides our thriving national parks. Our culture is influenced by both Scandinavia and China.
Our Embassy Program

User avatar
Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:07 am

interestingly enough the dictionary isn't the boss of anarchism or communism.
whatever

User avatar
Lautrec-
Envoy
 
Posts: 350
Founded: Sep 01, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Lautrec- » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:08 am

At least it's not "Libertarian Nationalism"
Greek, social democrat, atheist.

Political compass

Economic Left/Right: -1.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.85

General description: In short, it's a human, FTL, space-faring civilization. Think of Halo's UNSC
RP population: About 500 million, spread throughout many space colonies. Some have more, some less
Civilization index: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p29724780

Hey Dark Souls players. Want to extinguish a bonfire? Get rid of a troublesome firekeeper? Don't hesitate to make the call. Me and my squad will take care of it in no time at the low price of a firekeeper soul.

User avatar
Petrokovia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7703
Founded: Jul 07, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Petrokovia » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:14 am

Libertarian nationalist wrote:Merranium-Webster defines communism as:

a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production

Obviously, Merriam-Webster disagrees with Karl Marx's definition of Communism, because that's a Single-Party State Socialist system, not a Communist one.

Communism is a stateless society (i.e., no government), which is perfectly in line with anarchy. In fact, it is a type anarchy.
Last edited by Petrokovia on Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Communist from Philly living with multiplicity; We literally are Petrokovia. We are very spiritual adherents to our religion.
Pro: AES, Juche, communism, armed revolution, God (Mikotorma), reappropriating monarchical terms for socialist things (what's in a name?), the ethereal spaceship polycule sent by Allah to guide us, freedom of expression and religion
Anti: Fascism, absolute monarchy, capitalism, imperialism, Demiurge/Saklas, bigotry of any kind
Note: I do not use NS Stats, NS Tracker, etc. I only use my own factbooks and written information; The main canon used is the Democratic Socialist Vesperist Realms of Petrokovia (DSVRP)
من خلال الشدائد وسفك الدماء إلى المجد نسير بنور قلوبنا على طريق ميكوتورماه
National Anthem: Our Country!
National Religion: Vesperism

*Communist and Proud!*

User avatar
Bakery Hill
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11973
Founded: Jul 03, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Bakery Hill » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:15 am

oh shit he got out merriam webster

the game is up comrades
Founder of the Committee for Proletarian Morality - Winner of Best Communist Award 2018 - Godfather of NSG Syndicalism

User avatar
Elepis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8963
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Elepis » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:17 am

the definition is wrong, communists generally believe that the State is meaningless and will soon dissolve. Thus any definition of communism that has the word "state" in it is well, wrong
"Krugmar - Today at 10:00 PM
Not sure that'll work on Elepis considering he dislikes (from what I've observed):
A: Nationalism
B: Religion being taken seriously
C: The Irish"

User avatar
Marxistische Republik von Deutschland
Attaché
 
Posts: 96
Founded: Jan 16, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Marxistische Republik von Deutschland » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:19 am

"anarcho" communism is an oxymoron" Said the person with an Anarcho-Capitalist Flag.

It seems like the source you got for the definition of Communism glossed over the entire ideology in less than 2 sentences. Obviously there is more depth to the entire ideology other than that.
Methinks you are using the dictionary to stroke your political ego rather than educating yourself on how politics work, which I find unfortunate.

I suggest reading up on the ideology you're criticizing before you actually criticize it.

Current Wars: |None|
Population: ~69,314,000
National Religion: State Church of Prussia
Government: Communist State (under a Federal Constitutional Monarchy).
National Anthem
Map
Political Spectrum
Leader

My nation is set in 1940!

Recent News Articles: || Molotov-Kaulitzmann Pact results in bad deal for the Baltics, as each nation is claimed by the USSR and the Reich. Memelland is ceded to the Prussian State, Reverting them to very similar borders to their 1914 equivalency, whilst the Soviets claim Estonia, Latvia, and the Majority of Lithuania, as well as towering amounts of Polish Territory. Much political unrest in Poland devolves into major rioting, and the Polish Government has yet to comment officially on any of this news despite the recent bombings. ||

User avatar
Libertarian nationalist
Secretary
 
Posts: 35
Founded: Jan 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Libertarian nationalist » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:29 am

Elepis wrote:the definition is wrong, communists generally believe that the State is meaningless and will soon dissolve. Thus any definition of communism that has the word "state" in it is well, wrong

Tell that to Comrade Stalin, who was responsible for 62 million deaths.

User avatar
Catochristoferson
Diplomat
 
Posts: 554
Founded: Dec 19, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Catochristoferson » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:34 am

The source you are using (Merriam Webster) actually has multiple definitions under communism:

1
a : a theory advocating elimination of private property
b: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed

2
capitalized
a : a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the U.S.S.R.

b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production

c: a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably

d : communist systems collectively
I'm depressed.

User avatar
Petrokovia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7703
Founded: Jul 07, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Petrokovia » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:35 am

Libertarian nationalist wrote:
Elepis wrote:the definition is wrong, communists generally believe that the State is meaningless and will soon dissolve. Thus any definition of communism that has the word "state" in it is well, wrong

Tell that to Comrade Stalin, who was responsible for 62 million deaths.

The USSR wasn't communist. It was a socialist nation run by communists. People who wanted to bring about communism over time.

The ideology basically breaks down into: In order to achieve communism, one must create a socialist state first, and push for the development of socialism in other nations (these socialist nations are 'transitional states'). Once society is ready, the process can begin to transform the socialist nations into one large communist society, without government.

Different terms exist for people who have different views of how these transitional states should be run, or if they should even exist at all, instead jumping strait into communism. Anarcho-Communism is one of many different terms, and describes a more libertarian/minarchist view of how to achieve a communist society, rather than the totalitarian views Stalin had.
Communist from Philly living with multiplicity; We literally are Petrokovia. We are very spiritual adherents to our religion.
Pro: AES, Juche, communism, armed revolution, God (Mikotorma), reappropriating monarchical terms for socialist things (what's in a name?), the ethereal spaceship polycule sent by Allah to guide us, freedom of expression and religion
Anti: Fascism, absolute monarchy, capitalism, imperialism, Demiurge/Saklas, bigotry of any kind
Note: I do not use NS Stats, NS Tracker, etc. I only use my own factbooks and written information; The main canon used is the Democratic Socialist Vesperist Realms of Petrokovia (DSVRP)
من خلال الشدائد وسفك الدماء إلى المجد نسير بنور قلوبنا على طريق ميكوتورماه
National Anthem: Our Country!
National Religion: Vesperism

*Communist and Proud!*

User avatar
Libertarian nationalist
Secretary
 
Posts: 35
Founded: Jan 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Libertarian nationalist » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:37 am

Catochristoferson wrote:The source you are using (Merriam Webster) actually has multiple definitions under communism:

1
a : a theory advocating elimination of private property
b: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed

2
capitalized
a : a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the U.S.S.R.

b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production

c: a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably

d : communist systems collectively


Who are you to tell me I should be FORCED to share my resources with other people?. And who are you to tell me that we shouldn't have private property?

User avatar
Petrokovia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7703
Founded: Jul 07, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Petrokovia » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:39 am

Libertarian nationalist wrote:
Catochristoferson wrote:The source you are using (Merriam Webster) actually has multiple definitions under communism:

1
a : a theory advocating elimination of private property
b: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed

2
capitalized
a : a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the U.S.S.R.

b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production

c: a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably

d : communist systems collectively


Who are you to tell me I should be FORCED to share my resources with other people?. And who are you to tell me that we shouldn't have private property?

Actually, Anarcho-Communists recognize the need to respect personal property (just not private property). So if you're worried about the collective saying "oh, someone needs your car, so we'll just take that from you now," you wouldn't have to worry.

EDIT: Do note, I myself am an Anarcho-Communist.
Last edited by Petrokovia on Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
Communist from Philly living with multiplicity; We literally are Petrokovia. We are very spiritual adherents to our religion.
Pro: AES, Juche, communism, armed revolution, God (Mikotorma), reappropriating monarchical terms for socialist things (what's in a name?), the ethereal spaceship polycule sent by Allah to guide us, freedom of expression and religion
Anti: Fascism, absolute monarchy, capitalism, imperialism, Demiurge/Saklas, bigotry of any kind
Note: I do not use NS Stats, NS Tracker, etc. I only use my own factbooks and written information; The main canon used is the Democratic Socialist Vesperist Realms of Petrokovia (DSVRP)
من خلال الشدائد وسفك الدماء إلى المجد نسير بنور قلوبنا على طريق ميكوتورماه
National Anthem: Our Country!
National Religion: Vesperism

*Communist and Proud!*

User avatar
Marxistische Republik von Deutschland
Attaché
 
Posts: 96
Founded: Jan 16, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Marxistische Republik von Deutschland » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:40 am

Libertarian nationalist wrote:
Elepis wrote:the definition is wrong, communists generally believe that the State is meaningless and will soon dissolve. Thus any definition of communism that has the word "state" in it is well, wrong

Tell that to Comrade Stalin, who was responsible for 62 million deaths.

That old go-to? Figured you woulda had some kind of argument other than buzzwords, but here goes.

Stalin is arguably not a communist. I don't like to think so. His ideals are more on the level of disrupting communism, if anything. He took the Leninist system, a thriving communist society that of which was fair and mighty - and absolutely destroyed it, turning Russia back into an authoritarian super-state like the one the working class had been fighting for so long before.

Not to mention how he was responsible for killing all of the Bolsheviks, the actual communists.
If you're trying to assert Stalin as a communist, then why would he purposefully silence and politically cleanse the USSR of the Original Bolsheviks, which are undoubtedly the first Communists to fully create a functioning Soviet Society?

Current Wars: |None|
Population: ~69,314,000
National Religion: State Church of Prussia
Government: Communist State (under a Federal Constitutional Monarchy).
National Anthem
Map
Political Spectrum
Leader

My nation is set in 1940!

Recent News Articles: || Molotov-Kaulitzmann Pact results in bad deal for the Baltics, as each nation is claimed by the USSR and the Reich. Memelland is ceded to the Prussian State, Reverting them to very similar borders to their 1914 equivalency, whilst the Soviets claim Estonia, Latvia, and the Majority of Lithuania, as well as towering amounts of Polish Territory. Much political unrest in Poland devolves into major rioting, and the Polish Government has yet to comment officially on any of this news despite the recent bombings. ||

User avatar
Marxistische Republik von Deutschland
Attaché
 
Posts: 96
Founded: Jan 16, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Marxistische Republik von Deutschland » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:41 am

Libertarian nationalist wrote:Who are you to tell me I should be FORCED to share my resources with other people?. And who are you to tell me that we shouldn't have private property?

There is a huge divide between private property and personal property.

The clothes on your back is not the same as the factory that produces them.
The means of production are the priority in basic communism - not your cat.

Current Wars: |None|
Population: ~69,314,000
National Religion: State Church of Prussia
Government: Communist State (under a Federal Constitutional Monarchy).
National Anthem
Map
Political Spectrum
Leader

My nation is set in 1940!

Recent News Articles: || Molotov-Kaulitzmann Pact results in bad deal for the Baltics, as each nation is claimed by the USSR and the Reich. Memelland is ceded to the Prussian State, Reverting them to very similar borders to their 1914 equivalency, whilst the Soviets claim Estonia, Latvia, and the Majority of Lithuania, as well as towering amounts of Polish Territory. Much political unrest in Poland devolves into major rioting, and the Polish Government has yet to comment officially on any of this news despite the recent bombings. ||

User avatar
Philjia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12615
Founded: Sep 15, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:44 am

There is no such thing as anarchism. Removal of the state would in no case end tyranny; rather it would exacerbate it, either by the power of the majority or by the power of the wealthy. Luckily, any society under anarchy wouldn't last long, as power would, as usual, centralise.
"I had nightmares I thought were really horrible until I woke up and remembered what reality was at the moment." - Iain M Banks, Consider Phlebas

User avatar
Ayanka
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 112
Founded: Apr 05, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Ayanka » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:45 am

Both anarchists and communists want a moneyless, stateless, classless society. But communists (or at least marxist) think that a transitional stage is necessary to reach that society: this stage is what we call "socialism". That's what the USSR and the rest of the states of the Warsaw Pact were, and nowadays Cuba is (Don't confuse "socialism" with "social democracy": that last one is the system that some scandinavian countries have).
★ Народная.Республика Аянка ★
The People's Republic of Ayanka
A bright red star at the edge of the world
[National Factbook]|[Flag]|[Map]

User avatar
Internationalist Bastard
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24520
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:47 am

Well I don't think anarchism is even really possible, and I think communism needs some kind of organizational structure to work outside of a small group, so, yeah, I'd say so
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
“Whatever you are, be a good one” Abe Lincoln

User avatar
Ayanka
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 112
Founded: Apr 05, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Ayanka » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:47 am

Philjia wrote:There is no such thing as anarchism. Removal of the state would in no case end tyranny; rather it would exacerbate it, either by the power of the majority or by the power of the wealthy. Luckily, any society under anarchy wouldn't last long, as power would, as usual, centralise.

"Anarchism" and "the power of the wealthy" in the same sentence?
I see a problem here.
★ Народная.Республика Аянка ★
The People's Republic of Ayanka
A bright red star at the edge of the world
[National Factbook]|[Flag]|[Map]

User avatar
Internationalist Bastard
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24520
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:48 am

Ayanka wrote:
Philjia wrote:There is no such thing as anarchism. Removal of the state would in no case end tyranny; rather it would exacerbate it, either by the power of the majority or by the power of the wealthy. Luckily, any society under anarchy wouldn't last long, as power would, as usual, centralise.

"Anarchism" and "the power of the wealthy" in the same sentence?
I see a problem here.

Why? Things still have value without a government
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
“Whatever you are, be a good one” Abe Lincoln

User avatar
Malaguenia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 383
Founded: Sep 22, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Malaguenia » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:49 am

Communism does not work without a big government.
I don't use NS Stats, but if the stats make sense for my nation then go ahead and stop complaining about the fake taxes
Pro: Punishing corporations that commit crimes, Nuclear Power, , Switzerland, Science, Singapore's cleanliness and conduct policies, Space exploration, Cultural nationalism, moderate capitalism

Anti: , Mass immigration/refugees, Justin Trudeau, Diesel in cars, Equal wages, Crony capitalism Welfare for lazy people, Artificial additives, EU, Bombing Countries Without a good reason, Chavs, Jeremy Corbyn, Internet Surveillance, Regressive Leftism, Safe Spaces, Pseudoscience, Hillary Clinton, Hard-drugs, Bill Nye, Non-binary genders,
Antifa
Economic 1.63
Social -2.87
Looking for a MT region that has good detailed map and friendly players? Then try Greater Olympus

User avatar
Philjia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12615
Founded: Sep 15, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:51 am

Ayanka wrote:
Philjia wrote:There is no such thing as anarchism. Removal of the state would in no case end tyranny; rather it would exacerbate it, either by the power of the majority or by the power of the wealthy. Luckily, any society under anarchy wouldn't last long, as power would, as usual, centralise.

"Anarchism" and "the power of the wealthy" in the same sentence?
I see a problem here.


Anarcho capitalists have an equal claim to the anarcho prefix, since both ideals are equally unattainable and awful.
"I had nightmares I thought were really horrible until I woke up and remembered what reality was at the moment." - Iain M Banks, Consider Phlebas

User avatar
Philjia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12615
Founded: Sep 15, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:52 am

Malaguenia wrote:Communism does not work without a big government.


Heck, communism doesn't work in practice with big government, although it can just about work on paper.
"I had nightmares I thought were really horrible until I woke up and remembered what reality was at the moment." - Iain M Banks, Consider Phlebas

User avatar
Ayanka
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 112
Founded: Apr 05, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Ayanka » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:54 am

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Ayanka wrote:"Anarchism" and "the power of the wealthy" in the same sentence?
I see a problem here.

Why? Things still have value without a government

Because an anarchist society would be a moneyless society.
★ Народная.Республика Аянка ★
The People's Republic of Ayanka
A bright red star at the edge of the world
[National Factbook]|[Flag]|[Map]

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Hwiteard, Tlaceceyaya

Advertisement

Remove ads