I hate cars. Ban them!

[Vesser]

Please fill me in with what I can do with my lolwut.

Will it involve shouting one thing, and then immediately saying your words were taken out of context when there is no context? Because if so, I would rather not.

No, it involves shoving it up your rectum... Apparently you were not competent enough to divine that...

I was. I just wasn't expecting such immaturity.

"You don't agree with me, so I demand you shove your own words up your ass and take pleasure from it."

That's brilliant.

[Sdaeriji]

I couldn't agree less! Banning cars is like banning penicillin, you do that and your kicking humanity in the throat and taking away the most important discovery ever.

The printing press is the most important invention in human history. Mass dissemination of knowledge is what has made every single thing since possible.

Oh pish. If we hadn't invented sex, there would BE no human history!

Discovery =/= invention.

[New Ziedrich]

wow who are you? God? Who are you that you can set standards which humans must meet in order to deserve to exist?

How have they thrown away all of their potential anyway?

Because they fail to use the one thing that they have. Elephants have strength, birds can fly, gazelles have speed and agility.

Humans lack these things. They have the power to know and understand, and the power to create. They squander these abilities so much that, if anything can be called a sin, it is the degree to which such potential is wasted.

They could understand. Instead they embrace ignorance, superstition, and irrationality. They could create. Instead, most of them chose to destroy. They destroy their minds and the world. Destruction is easy. Fucking waste.

Those statistics were pretty shocking. Scary actually. I can't tell you how many times people have waited for my family's car to be right in front of the cross-walk and then sprint across. And after last year, I can't get the image out of my mind, when I was on my way home from school and saw a dog get hit by a car. The past, though has shown humanity has squandered their abilities and traded them for destruction. People have become reliant on the technology. We've become part of a lazy existence. Today's problems have made me paranoid.

I think that if we could teach current and future generations to be better, and keep them away from the destructive, shortsighted idiots, we could eventually reach a point where we could turn things around. It doesn't even have to be a majority of people, really. Just enought dedicated, hard working, intelligent people to keep things rolling.

Yeah, I tried apathy once. Idiots were still idiots, and I was still annoyed by them.

[Kisia]

In case anyone was wondering, the latest figure of pedestrian deaths from Neesika's NTSB-related source puts pedestrian deaths related to automobile incidents in the year of 2006 at 99, which is about a third of homocide-related deaths that Neesika referred to in the OP. A cursory glance at the statistics provided in the report show that it's about the mean value of deaths per year in LA, though an increase from 83 in 2004 and 96 in 2005.

If that report shows me anything, it's that local governments need to step up and design better roads that increase visibility to the driver between the hours of 6pm and 9pm.

Another thing the boroughs here do is try to force drivers to slow the fuck down. Stop signs and pedestrian crosswalks don't really do this, they are apparently just mere suggestions. So a lot of residential roads have large speed bumps. Other areas force cars to sort of weave down the road by setting up large concrete blocks to create a bit of an obstacle course, making it impossible to speed. I think that is also massively helpful.

What I like more though are the alleyways that have been closed to vehicular traffic by the nifty process of putting trees in the way. My neighbourhood petitioned to have this done, and it's quite a lovely place to walk now:

Even cooler however, are the days when entire swaths of streets get closed to cars completely for whatever festival is going on. It's so fucking nice to have people walking in the streets and using the space as a community that you really wonder why we don't make more spaces like this permanently.

I will admit, that is pretty cool. In our area, when parades go on, they usualy stop cause somebodys so angry they'll try to run the fuck over someone. I rember, I almost got hit like that. I threw a brick at his window, and it hit. That was real funny!

[Natapoc]

School busses already serve most rural areas. So public transit actually exists at least twice a day for most rural areas. It is just restricted to the population that attends public schools.

I want to go from here to the next nearest town 12 miles away. Somebody else wants to go to the next nearest semi-city, 45-50 miles away. Solution? Cars or an ungodly inconvenient bus route.

First of all the nearest town is 12 miles away right? That is 30 minutes by bike. One would need to know the exact details of how many people live in your area and where they tend to want to go to develop an ideal solution based on public transit.

I would fully expect that they could build a train station within a couple miles of where you live such that it took less then 10 minutes by bike to get there.

[Neesika]

Ironically the public bus system in Orlando is enormously inconvenient because traffic is so terrible. Walking anywhere is downright dangerous, too.

Getting stuck in traffic while on a bus is incredibly frustrating. Especially when people will not give the bus the right of way.

Edmonton started a system where there are dedicated lanes for buses and taxis to get past traffic...the lanes don't go all the way, but pop in and out enough that these forms of transport can bypass rush hour traffic. Fines for driving in those lanes when not a bus or taxi are so incredibly high that it really does keep them clear. It's also an excellent way to ensure emergency vehicles can get through.

[United Nukia]

The very thought that cars are bad is an insult to the intelligence of all humans.

[Natapoc]

I will admit, that is pretty cool. In our area, when parades go on, they usualy stop cause somebodys so angry they'll try to run the fuck over someone. I rember, I almost got hit like that. I threw a brick at his window, and it hit. That was real funny!

Careful you are one of those terrorists they always accuse me of being on this forum for not simply denouncing everyone who throws something in any case.

[Kisia]

School busses already serve most rural areas. So public transit actually exists at least twice a day for most rural areas. It is just restricted to the population that attends public schools.

I want to go from here to the next nearest town 12 miles away. Somebody else wants to go to the next nearest semi-city, 45-50 miles away. Solution? Cars or an ungodly inconvenient bus route.

First of all the nearest town is 12 miles away right? That is 30 minutes by bike. One would need to know the exact details of how many people live in your area and where they tend to want to go to develop an ideal solution based on public transit.

I would fully expect that they could build a train station within a couple miles of where you live such that it took less then 10 minutes by bike to get there.

I'm guessing everyone will have 2 bike to get to where they want to go eventully?

[Tekania]

Please fill me in with what I can do with my lolwut.

Will it involve shouting one thing, and then immediately saying your words were taken out of context when there is no context? Because if so, I would rather not.

No, it involves shoving it up your rectum... Apparently you were not competent enough to divine that...

I was. I just wasn't expecting such immaturity.

"You don't agree with me, so I demand you shove your own words up your ass and take pleasure from it."

That's brilliant.

There's no "agree / disagree" those words are for defining a placement of opinion, not concrete fact... It's not that I disagree with you... It is that on face, by facts, you are wrong... So, you can keep pandering about like a fucking idiot, or you can shut the fuck up... Your choice...

[Natapoc]

School busses already serve most rural areas. So public transit actually exists at least twice a day for most rural areas. It is just restricted to the population that attends public schools.

I want to go from here to the next nearest town 12 miles away. Somebody else wants to go to the next nearest semi-city, 45-50 miles away. Solution? Cars or an ungodly inconvenient bus route.

First of all the nearest town is 12 miles away right? That is 30 minutes by bike. One would need to know the exact details of how many people live in your area and where they tend to want to go to develop an ideal solution based on public transit.

I would fully expect that they could build a train station within a couple miles of where you live such that it took less then 10 minutes by bike to get there.

I'm guessing everyone will have 2 bike to get to where they want to go eventully?

Bikes and walking are options that work right now for most people. That does not mean other methods should be restricted.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

First of all the nearest town is 12 miles away right? That is 30 minutes by bike. One would need to know the exact details of how many people live in your area and where they tend to want to go to develop an ideal solution based on public transit.

I would fully expect that they could build a train station within a couple miles of where you live such that it took less then 10 minutes by bike to get there.

A lot of us around here are too out of shape to ride bikes. Me because I'm out of shape and never learned how to ride one. Most people around here because this is a town of mostly retired old people.

[New Ziedrich]

School busses already serve most rural areas. So public transit actually exists at least twice a day for most rural areas. It is just restricted to the population that attends public schools.

I want to go from here to the next nearest town 12 miles away. Somebody else wants to go to the next nearest semi-city, 45-50 miles away. Solution? Cars or an ungodly inconvenient bus route.

First of all the nearest town is 12 miles away right? That is 30 minutes by bike. One would need to know the exact details of how many people live in your area and where they tend to want to go to develop an ideal solution based on public transit.

I would fully expect that they could build a train station within a couple miles of where you live such that it took less then 10 minutes by bike to get there.

I'm guessing everyone will have 2 bike to get to where they want to go eventully?

Bikes and walking are options that work right now for most people. That does not mean other methods should be restricted.

Except the private automobile, regardless of how clean and environmentally sustainable they happen to be, correct?

[Vesser]

Please fill me in with what I can do with my lolwut.

Will it involve shouting one thing, and then immediately saying your words were taken out of context when there is no context? Because if so, I would rather not.

No, it involves shoving it up your rectum... Apparently you were not competent enough to divine that...

I was. I just wasn't expecting such immaturity.

"You don't agree with me, so I demand you shove your own words up your ass and take pleasure from it."

That's brilliant.

There's no "agree / disagree" those words are for defining a placement of opinion, not concrete fact... It's not that I disagree with you... It is that on face, by facts, you are wrong... So, you can keep pandering about like a fucking idiot, or you can shut the fuck up... Your choice...

He said something to the tune of "I believe cars should be banned outright in his OP."

He then changed his mind at the bottom, stating that we should begin to move away from cars.

He pointed out in a previous post that he never stated he wanted to ban cars. I posted that to debate his claim.

So how about you read where I was coming from before you pander about like a fucking idiot?

[Neesika]

There is little point in compromise Neesika. If you were to say you just wanted to reduce the number of cars by 1% they would not be happy until you accepted increasing the number of cars by 120% and even then they would accuse you of wanting an all out ban.

So why appease the opposition at all? Full out ban now!

Ha, well, because it would mean I wouldn't get the fresh cheese curd for my next epic poutine...

Here's how I think we could start. A full out no-car-zone declared in core downtown areas. Not a huge area, mind you, but the main area, assuming you can get from the furthest end of the zone to the other via metro or subway. So boom, no cars excepting delivery vehicles (special permits, perhaps even limited roads they can travel on) and emergency vehicles. To do that, you'd have to provide some parking area at the outskirts of the no-car-zone. Or at major terminals, to encourage people to park and ride.

Massive fines for idling cars. (Except in the winter, if you're just heating the car up a bit.)

Big money put into figuring out how to retrofit existing vehicles to clean up emissions as much as possible, and a ban on non-clean vehicles from being produced from now on.

Serious investment in mass transportation.

Step by step. Little by little, bit by bit...but at a much quicker pace than is currently seen. Enough with this looooooooong incremental change. Let's get on this shit now.

[Blouman Empire]

Step one: get as many cars off the road as possible by providing more efficient mass transportation.

Step two: ensure all transportation runs as pollution free as is technologically possible.

See these two steps I can advocate I wouldn't go as far as saying to ban cars though.

[Natapoc]

Except the private automobile, regardless of how clean and environmentally sustainable they happen to be, correct?

Driving a car in public is like shooting a gun in public. If you can make cars significantly safer in all aspects then I'd be more okay with them.

What I most hate about my area is that it is not safe for me to ride a bike because car drivers make the road to dangerous. If you can change that so that car drivers don't put me at huge personal risk then I won't be so against them.

[Muravyets]

Cars are a convenience that are quite useful in developed countries with lots of urban sprawl. They are almost a necessity. The only way cars could be banned is if there was a good public transportation system that served almost every corner of the country. And it's kind of hard to manage and build such a large public transportation system

The only problem with your argument is that we would not have urban sprawl if we had not first had cars. Cars are not the response to a need. We think the world is a certain way and that's why we need cars. In fact, the world that depends on cars was created to support and encourage the use of cars. In the latter half of the 19th century the Rockefeller family and their company which became known as Standard Oil (later Esso, then Exxon), had established a monopoly on control of crude oil/petroleum sources and commodities in the US, and then set about looking for ways to make money off the stuff. Initially sold as a patent medicine (!!!) (but I guess that's why we still have Vaseline petroleum jelly in the drug stores), they later expanded into using it as a machine lubricant, and then a lighting fuel to replace whale oil. It was the advent of the combustion engine car that gave Standard Oil a market for the previously useless and worthless by-product of oil refining -- gasoline. Through a concerted and coordinated program of exerting political influence at the turn of the 20th century (corporate bribery, just like we have today), Standard Oil, Ford Motors, and related monied interests got Congress to commit to the rapid development of the interstate highway system, draining funding from the railroads which had previously been the primary means of personal travel and shipping long distance across the US -- and which the railroad tycoons, the Vanderbilts, didn't really mind all that much, since all those families were pretty much related in various ways anyway.

As the highways were built, Standard Oil got a special agreement from the federal government that gave them an edge in placing gas fueling stations along those highways, to encourage people to use the highways to drive long distances in their brand new Ford cars. Not long after that, Congress acted to break the Standard Oil monopoly -- I'm still not sure why -- but by then the new private transportation system was entrenched.

Later on, first in the boom of the 1920s and then with a vengeance in the boom after WW2, suburban developments were created specifically to rely on and encourage SOV usage. The entire lifestyle was an invented fiction created to sell real estate, sell cars, sell gas, etc.

The point is that, back at the turn of the 20th century, we had a choice of how we wanted to develop the modern world. We allowed that choice to be made by people who stood to profit more from one choice than the other. We live in a car culture because of the people who got rich off selling us the car culture. But it was not inevitable, and it was not our only option. Everything you see today -- the sprawl, the pollution and related health issues, the lack of community, the lack of municipal planning, the social isolation, the sedentariness and related health issues, the politics, the conflicts, the pop culture icons -- all of it, everything is the result of a marketing scheme for a few people's personal profit.

But just as the car culture was invented and sold, so another culture can be invented and sold. And I propose to support such an effort -- because I think the car culture is shit, and I'm sick of it.

[Gift-of-god]

A lot of us around here are too out of shape to ride bikes. Me because I'm out of shape and never learned how to ride one. Most people around here because this is a town of mostly retired old people.

Bicycles are useful in that they actually provide exercise when you use them. Most have gears on them so that people with very low leg strength can still use them.

[Neesika]

I'm not talking about this thread in particular. I just mean that humans have earned my seal of not caring about them anymore.

I don't care about humanity. It can do all the stupid self-destructive stuff it wants for all I care. Make urban sprawl worse. Let some other idealist that hasn't been jaded beyond all hope try to change the world. I give up.

Okay, hope you feel better in the morning.

[Gift-of-god]

Except the private automobile, regardless of how clean and environmentally sustainable they happen to be, correct?

Well, the existence of the clean and environmentally sustainable private automobile is somewhat hypothetical at this time.

[Blouman Empire]

And since when were cars faster than trains? A bus to New York from Washington DC would take much longer than an Amtrak ride.

You can't compare a car to a bus, though. Traveling by bus takes at least three times as long, in my experience.

Only if it's making a lot of stops. If you've ever taken a non-stop bus, it doesn't take any longer than a car ride.

They must be fast buses you have in Canada, wish we had those buses in Australia.

Actually that only applies for inter-town buses where they are slower I do find those travelling in the city take about the same time as a car if it makes no stops.

Unless of course it has to take side streets and go around various roads rather than directly to your destination.

[Gift-of-god]

Okay, hope you feel better in the morning.

You too.

[New Ziedrich]

Except the private automobile, regardless of how clean and environmentally sustainable they happen to be, correct?

Well, the existence of the clean and environmentally sustainable private automobile is somewhat hypothetical at this time.

Yes, but I don't see that lasting forever.

[Neesika]

Discovery =/= invention.

No. We INVENTED sex.

The animals are guilty of intellectual property theft.