TET: So Violet Behind The Vapors

[Ethel mermania]

As a genreal conversation topic I think it's fine for tet, if you are asking for a moderation policy change, then yeas that belongs in moderation.

Pretty much this. If it gets into modbashing, we might have to review, since this is still a lighthearted chat thread, so any serious bashing it's not the place for

How about a mod shearing? May be a ltitle tough with monitor, but where there is s will there is s way

[The Blaatschapen]

The blog thread convo is better suited for Moderation, isn't it?

Been there, done that, nothing changed.

Apparently, leopards can't change their shorts... but I am now curious, is it possible to stop a specific post from being edited? I know players can lose editing privileges but can posts? Because then the solution to the issue raised by NERV in that thread is simply to edit the OP. Indeed, double posts are deletable, and I've seen troll threads lose their OPs and so it is also possible to edit the second post and allow things to continue.

As to the ET, there seems to be less sharp a divide between TET and NSG these days, probably due to less activity in TET.

Yes, specific posts can be locked. Try to edit your post I just quoted.

[Forsher]

But was it accompanied by a large demise of people? And did it survive the transition from Jolt? Because if it didn't, it effectively didn't happen as anyone joining post-Jolt has no idea about what happened on Jolt and so cannot be behaviourally affected by it.

The large demise of people I thought was due to Neo-Art leading the whole "mods don't respect your privacy" bit and falling out en masse with the site (only to later on backfiring on Neo-Art as I recall).

The posting quality, as far as I recall, wasn't a thing people were too bothered about. People voiced their concerns, but it wasn't like it was an endemic problem, as far as I can recall.

Oh, yes, that is why they left. It is just the same people who left, led by the High Priest of Children are Morons (i.e. Neo Art), were the lesser priests. In some respects, I think the departure worked out for what they were looking for and lessened the toxicity of NSG but resulted in a less "vital" NSG. The actual reasons for their departure are not so important as that they departed and it is a coincidence (well, maybe not) that the High Priest of both movements (anti-childrenism, and anti-modism) was the same poster.

And it was definitely endemic. But it must be said I did post in essentially all the same threads as the priests so maybe it was a bit less so outside those threads. But I think the point stands... if interesting thread topics displayed the issue, then people interested in those things (rather than new posters in general) are discouraged. This could also help explain the absence of death spiral... fluctuations decrease but not as by much as if all new posters were being turned off.

[Chrinthanium]

The blog thread convo is better suited for Moderation, isn't it?

Been there, done that, nothing changed.

Apparently, leopards can't change their shorts... but I am now curious, is it possible to stop a specific post from being edited? I know players can lose editing privileges but can posts? Because then the solution to the issue raised by NERV in that thread is simply to edit the OP. Indeed, double posts are deletable, and I've seen troll threads lose their OPs and so it is also possible to edit the second post and allow things to continue.

As to the ET, there seems to be less sharp a divide between TET and NSG these days, probably due to less activity in TET.

Well, NSG also is MEGATHREADED TO THE MAX (echos). Hard to have a divide between threads when all threads talk about 1 giant, universal THING and all things related to the giant, universal THING. The threads all turn into subject-specific TETs, really.

[USS Monitor]

That's another possibility... 2013 was extra busy.

In general, I do not like the blog post rule. It is arbitrarily applied (I've asked, no-one came up with criteria that made sense) and, to be frank, disproportionately by Farn. There is a difference between a badly written discussion and a post which is really about the poster. And even some of those should be allowed to stick around. It is insane that a 20 page long thread gets locked for being a blog. Isn't the entire point of the rule to allow discussions to be fostered? What is 20 pages but discussion? Golf puns? (Sadly, given NSG, this is not a rhetorical question.)

Megathreads... work when we're talking about something with a limited lifetime. When we want to deal with something that is ongoing, they have the effect, I think, of freezing people out. You might be developing an opinion on, say, Trump but instead of being able to comment on [thing] you've got to deal with 200+ pages of baggage. The feminist megathread is worse in this regard because it is literally just six posters from page 1 to page 500, with five more who post intermittently and some one-offs.

I still like the megathreads, but those are valid points. Sometimes the specifics do get buried under the general.

I think there are times when megathreads are useful, but we've been overusing them. The feminist thread is one that may have outlived its usefulness.

[The Blaatschapen]

Been there, done that, nothing changed.

Apparently, leopards can't change their shorts... but I am now curious, is it possible to stop a specific post from being edited? I know players can lose editing privileges but can posts? Because then the solution to the issue raised by NERV in that thread is simply to edit the OP. Indeed, double posts are deletable, and I've seen troll threads lose their OPs and so it is also possible to edit the second post and allow things to continue.

As to the ET, there seems to be less sharp a divide between TET and NSG these days, probably due to less activity in TET.

Well, NSG also is MEGATHREADED TO THE MAX (echos). Hard to have a divide between threads when all threads talk about 1 giant, universal THING and all things related to the giant, universal THING. The threads all turn into subject-specific TETs, really.

That's one of my gripes with mega-threads. That some of them become too much TET, and just vaguely in-depth about the subject. Trans* and RWDT come to mind here.

[Forsher]

TET was suppose to take the chat our of the topical threads, and as far as that goes I think it has been a success

I would agree, but on the other hand, RWDT, and on the nose, I've only been around in the TET-era.

Yes, specific posts can be locked. Try to edit your post I just quoted.

That's cool.

So, the problem now becomes selecting some sort of text to use as a replacement OP, which thus removes the trollishness of the troll OP and but preserves the topic and thus keeps all the people willing to talk about [thing] in the same thread and, therefore, you don't get discussion die off caused by having people have to move to another thread and create that.

[Ethel mermania]

The large demise of people I thought was due to Neo-Art leading the whole "mods don't respect your privacy" bit and falling out en masse with the site (only to later on backfiring on Neo-Art as I recall).

The posting quality, as far as I recall, wasn't a thing people were too bothered about. People voiced their concerns, but it wasn't like it was an endemic problem, as far as I can recall.

Oh, yes, that is why they left. It is just the same people who left, led by the High Priest of Children are Morons (i.e. Neo Art), were the lesser priests. In some respects, I think the departure worked out for what they were looking for and lessened the toxicity of NSG but resulted in a less "vital" NSG. The actual reasons for their departure are not so important as that they departed and it is a coincidence (well, maybe not) that the High Priest of both movements (anti-childrenism, and anti-modism) was the same poster.

And it was definitely endemic. But it must be said I did post in essentially all the same threads as the priests so maybe it was a bit less so outside those threads. But I think the point stands... if interesting thread topics displayed the issue, then people interested in those things (rather than new posters in general) are discouraged. This could also help explain the absence of death spiral... fluctuations decrease but not as by much as if all new posters were being turned off.

Honestly I am glad they are gone, either by finally racking up enough dos points or on their own volition. The site is much less toxic now.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The large demise of people I thought was due to Neo-Art leading the whole "mods don't respect your privacy" bit and falling out en masse with the site (only to later on backfiring on Neo-Art as I recall).

The posting quality, as far as I recall, wasn't a thing people were too bothered about. People voiced their concerns, but it wasn't like it was an endemic problem, as far as I can recall.

Oh, yes, that is why they left. It is just the same people who left, led by the High Priest of Children are Morons (i.e. Neo Art), were the lesser priests. In some respects, I think the departure worked out for what they were looking for and lessened the toxicity of NSG but resulted in a less "vital" NSG. The actual reasons for their departure are not so important as that they departed and it is a coincidence (well, maybe not) that the High Priest of both movements (anti-childrenism, and anti-modism) was the same poster.

And it was definitely endemic. But it must be said I did post in essentially all the same threads as the priests so maybe it was a bit less so outside those threads. But I think the point stands... if interesting thread topics displayed the issue, then people interested in those things (rather than new posters in general) are discouraged. This could also help explain the absence of death spiral... fluctuations decrease but not as by much as if all new posters were being turned off.

I remember back then I was more turned off by participating in threads where they participated because they'd go after someone and relentlessly attack them for disagreeing with them. So I was more driven to other topics, and so I never saw the same thing you saw.

Now, mind, some of that toxicity has stuck, but not in the same degree it used to be back then.

[Chrinthanium]

Oh, yes, that is why they left. It is just the same people who left, led by the High Priest of Children are Morons (i.e. Neo Art), were the lesser priests. In some respects, I think the departure worked out for what they were looking for and lessened the toxicity of NSG but resulted in a less "vital" NSG. The actual reasons for their departure are not so important as that they departed and it is a coincidence (well, maybe not) that the High Priest of both movements (anti-childrenism, and anti-modism) was the same poster.

And it was definitely endemic. But it must be said I did post in essentially all the same threads as the priests so maybe it was a bit less so outside those threads. But I think the point stands... if interesting thread topics displayed the issue, then people interested in those things (rather than new posters in general) are discouraged. This could also help explain the absence of death spiral... fluctuations decrease but not as by much as if all new posters were being turned off.

Honestly I am glad they are gone, either by finally racking up enough dos points or on their own volition. The site is much less toxic now.

Pretty much what you just said.

Well, NSG also is MEGATHREADED TO THE MAX (echos). Hard to have a divide between threads when all threads talk about 1 giant, universal THING and all things related to the giant, universal THING. The threads all turn into subject-specific TETs, really.

That's one of my gripes with mega-threads. That some of them become too much TET, and just vaguely in-depth about the subject. Trans* and RWDT come to mind here.

Oh god. Don't lock the RWDT. If you think people complain about ebil lib'ril Mod biazez now... just wait till that happens.

[Ethel mermania]

Well, NSG also is MEGATHREADED TO THE MAX (echos). Hard to have a divide between threads when all threads talk about 1 giant, universal THING and all things related to the giant, universal THING. The threads all turn into subject-specific TETs, really.

That's one of my gripes with mega-threads. That some of them become too much TET, and just vaguely in-depth about the subject. Trans* and RWDT come to mind here.

But to a point the trans thread has to be that. It is a specific chat about the challenges in their lives. In a sense it was like..... her name escapes me for the moment, the nice kid from cslifornia's rape survivors thread. It is a safe space for them. ( and remember I am not a fan of safe spaces, but as a narrowly tailored specific thread I do see the benefits).

[USS Monitor]

Been there, done that, nothing changed.

Apparently, leopards can't change their shorts... but I am now curious, is it possible to stop a specific post from being edited? I know players can lose editing privileges but can posts? Because then the solution to the issue raised by NERV in that thread is simply to edit the OP. Indeed, double posts are deletable, and I've seen troll threads lose their OPs and so it is also possible to edit the second post and allow things to continue.

As to the ET, there seems to be less sharp a divide between TET and NSG these days, probably due to less activity in TET.

Well, NSG also is MEGATHREADED TO THE MAX (echos). Hard to have a divide between threads when all threads talk about 1 giant, universal THING and all things related to the giant, universal THING. The threads all turn into subject-specific TETs, really.

Yeah, one of the problems with the ideological discussion threads is they turn into mini-TETs -- especially RWDT, but there are also spates of it in the others.

[The Blaatschapen]

That's one of my gripes with mega-threads. That some of them become too much TET, and just vaguely in-depth about the subject. Trans* and RWDT come to mind here.

But to a point the trans thread has to be that. It is a specific chat about the challenges in their lives. In a sense it was like..... her name escapes me for the moment, the nice kid from cslifornia's rape survivors thread. It is a safe space for them. ( and remember I am not a fan of safe spaces, but as a narrowly tailored specific thread I do see the benefits).

It has to be trans* related challenges though. Not all challenges are. Some are just t(w)een/growing up challenges. Or LGB challenges (offtopic for a Trans* thread )

[Internationalist Bastard]

But to a point the trans thread has to be that. It is a specific chat about the challenges in their lives. In a sense it was like..... her name escapes me for the moment, the nice kid from cslifornia's rape survivors thread. It is a safe space for them. ( and remember I am not a fan of safe spaces, but as a narrowly tailored specific thread I do see the benefits).

It has to be trans* related challenges though. Not all challenges are. Some are just t(w)een/growing up challenges. Or LGB challenges (offtopic for a Trans* thread )

It's natural. You come to a place for advice often enough, it becomes a default place for advice

[The Blaatschapen]

That's one of my gripes with mega-threads. That some of them become too much TET, and just vaguely in-depth about the subject. Trans* and RWDT come to mind here.

Oh god. Don't lock the RWDT. If you think people complain about ebil lib'ril Mod biazez now... just wait till that happens.

Eh, they'll surive. We'll survive.

[Muinordgrad]

To be air, I also think the departure and banning of a lot of what had been a lot of prominent members (Thafoo, Divair, Stern de Meers, etc) also burned a little bit of the morale.

NSG is big enough to really have a chance to make a rebound. Continuing this more friendly atmosphere, growing back from the stump, eventually people will return.

Though, honestly, another factor is a lot of people probably aged out. I mean, shit, I've been on this website since I was in middle school (Hydronium was apparently founded back in '12), and I'm about three-fourths through my freshman year of college now. This will probably be my last stint on here for months. But I am confident that things will return. This community has survived worse.

[The Blaatschapen]

It has to be trans* related challenges though. Not all challenges are. Some are just t(w)een/growing up challenges. Or LGB challenges (offtopic for a Trans* thread )

It's natural. You come to a place for advice often enough, it becomes a default place for advice

Oh, I can understand why it happens, but it's still offtopic

[USS Monitor]

TET was suppose to take the chat our of the topical threads, and as far as that goes I think it has been a success

I would agree, but on the other hand, RWDT, and on the nose, I've only been around in the TET-era.

Yes, specific posts can be locked. Try to edit your post I just quoted.

That's cool.

So, the problem now becomes selecting some sort of text to use as a replacement OP, which thus removes the trollishness of the troll OP and but preserves the topic and thus keeps all the people willing to talk about [thing] in the same thread and, therefore, you don't get discussion die off caused by having people have to move to another thread and create that.

Replacing OPs really is too much work for mods. If a thread has a good discussion going despite a poorly-written OP, it can stay open with the existing OP. If the OP is too trollish to leave up, the thread should be locked.

[Hetalia Dakota 2 II]

It's natural. You come to a place for advice often enough, it becomes a default place for advice

Oh, I can understand why it happens, but it's still offtopic

I 100% agree with you on this.

[Internationalist Bastard]

To be air, I also think the departure and banning of a lot of what had been a lot of prominent members (Thafoo, Divair, Stern de Meers, etc) also burned a little bit of the morale.

NSG is big enough to really have a chance to make a rebound. Continuing this more friendly atmosphere, growing back from the stump, eventually people will return.

Though, honestly, another factor is a lot of people probably aged out. I mean, shit, I've been on this website since I was in middle school (Hydronium was apparently founded back in '12), and I'm about three-fourths through my freshman year of college now. This will probably be my last stint on here for months. But I am confident that things will return. This community has survived worse.

Qnd then theres folks like me, who are too lonely to ever leave this thread

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

To be air, I also think the departure and banning of a lot of what had been a lot of prominent members (Thafoo, Divair, Stern de Meers, etc) also burned a little bit of the morale.

NSG is big enough to really have a chance to make a rebound. Continuing this more friendly atmosphere, growing back from the stump, eventually people will return.

Though, honestly, another factor is a lot of people probably aged out. I mean, shit, I've been on this website since I was in middle school (Hydronium was apparently founded back in '12), and I'm about three-fourths through my freshman year of college now. This will probably be my last stint on here for months. But I am confident that things will return. This community has survived worse.

Thafoo and Divair broke the rules of the site. They had what was coming to them.

[Khalisako]

Oh, yes, that is why they left. It is just the same people who left, led by the High Priest of Children are Morons (i.e. Neo Art), were the lesser priests. In some respects, I think the departure worked out for what they were looking for and lessened the toxicity of NSG but resulted in a less "vital" NSG. The actual reasons for their departure are not so important as that they departed and it is a coincidence (well, maybe not) that the High Priest of both movements (anti-childrenism, and anti-modism) was the same poster.

And it was definitely endemic. But it must be said I did post in essentially all the same threads as the priests so maybe it was a bit less so outside those threads. But I think the point stands... if interesting thread topics displayed the issue, then people interested in those things (rather than new posters in general) are discouraged. This could also help explain the absence of death spiral... fluctuations decrease but not as by much as if all new posters were being turned off.

I remember back then I was more turned off by participating in threads where they participated because they'd go after someone and relentlessly attack them for disagreeing with them. So I was more driven to other topics, and so I never saw the same thing you saw.

Now, mind, some of that toxicity has stuck, but not in the same degree it used to be back then.

NSG: "Don't forget your sources, you need at least ten. Oh, and you need to write in beefy paragraphs, not only that, but with perfect grammar. Better to be a lawyer, so one can write in proper law language, we can't take you seriously otherwise."

Old Community: "You stink croat, get the fuck out of here and take your little groupies with you. We don't want you here! You can't do what I say you can't do, understand!?" *Admin bans entire country over one guy he doesn't like*, Bomb is mailed ot someone's home, almsot killnig them and scaring them fro mthe community... over a video game.* xD

[Chrinthanium]

But to a point the trans thread has to be that. It is a specific chat about the challenges in their lives. In a sense it was like..... her name escapes me for the moment, the nice kid from cslifornia's rape survivors thread. It is a safe space for them. ( and remember I am not a fan of safe spaces, but as a narrowly tailored specific thread I do see the benefits).

It has to be trans* related challenges though. Not all challenges are. Some are just t(w)een/growing up challenges. Or LGB challenges (offtopic for a Trans* thread )

Too bad you don't have thread mods. Mods who patrol just one thread to keep it on topic.

It's natural. You come to a place for advice often enough, it becomes a default place for advice

Oh, I can understand why it happens, but it's still offtopic

Well, off topic only works in TET because TET IS DA KING OF THREADZ!

To be air, I also think the departure and banning of a lot of what had been a lot of prominent members (Thafoo, Divair, Stern de Meers, etc) also burned a little bit of the morale.

NSG is big enough to really have a chance to make a rebound. Continuing this more friendly atmosphere, growing back from the stump, eventually people will return.

Though, honestly, another factor is a lot of people probably aged out. I mean, shit, I've been on this website since I was in middle school (Hydronium was apparently founded back in '12), and I'm about three-fourths through my freshman year of college now. This will probably be my last stint on here for months. But I am confident that things will return. This community has survived worse.

There's reasons for Thafoo (someone I used to chat with A LOT). Other people for other reasons. Almost all reason are justified.

Oh god. Don't lock the RWDT. If you think people complain about ebil lib'ril Mod biazez now... just wait till that happens.

Eh, they'll surive. We'll survive.

You don't seem so sure.

[USS Monitor]

Oh, yes, that is why they left. It is just the same people who left, led by the High Priest of Children are Morons (i.e. Neo Art), were the lesser priests. In some respects, I think the departure worked out for what they were looking for and lessened the toxicity of NSG but resulted in a less "vital" NSG. The actual reasons for their departure are not so important as that they departed and it is a coincidence (well, maybe not) that the High Priest of both movements (anti-childrenism, and anti-modism) was the same poster.

And it was definitely endemic. But it must be said I did post in essentially all the same threads as the priests so maybe it was a bit less so outside those threads. But I think the point stands... if interesting thread topics displayed the issue, then people interested in those things (rather than new posters in general) are discouraged. This could also help explain the absence of death spiral... fluctuations decrease but not as by much as if all new posters were being turned off.

Honestly I am glad they are gone, either by finally racking up enough dos points or on their own volition. The site is much less toxic now.

Some of them, we are better off without them. Others, it's a shame they left.

[Ethel mermania]

But to a point the trans thread has to be that. It is a specific chat about the challenges in their lives. In a sense it was like..... her name escapes me for the moment, the nice kid from cslifornia's rape survivors thread. It is a safe space for them. ( and remember I am not a fan of safe spaces, but as a narrowly tailored specific thread I do see the benefits).

It has to be trans* related challenges though. Not all challenges are. Some are just t(w)een/growing up challenges. Or LGB challenges (offtopic for a Trans* thread )

Agreed, but sometimes a young trans kid is not going to be able to tell the difference between a teen angst issue, and a trans issue. They are still inexperienced kids.