TET: So Violet Behind The Vapors

[Immoren]

That's true, but for a little while this forum at least was very caught up in the sort of New Atheist movement that had a little revival in 12-13. Eh, though you've been here a bit longer, so overall I'll defer to your judgement, but it still seems more right. Though it also just *feels* quieter.

Yeah, I think the activity level in NSG has dropped off from what it was when I first joined NS in 2010. I am not sure exactly when or why this happened.

I sort of feel like consolidation of certain topics under megathreads has had negative effect on my participation.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

I slept for the past four hours, wasting time which could have been spent productively, such as engaging in hobbies or interests, or posting on NSG, or studying and doing schoolwork.

[Ethel mermania]

My guess? Probably in 2013 with some seepage into 2014. Why? Well, I suggest that if you have a sizeable chunk of long term posters whose major message is "lol, stupid teen, piss off my forum" and the bulk of new posters are, yes, teens you're going to offer something that is not conducive to sustainable forum numbers. And then when you lose some of the long-term players in, roughly speaking, one fell swoop you then offer something which moves slower and has less vitality... which probably accelerates existing membership drop off and does not encourage sticking if you're just encountering the forum. However, things seem relatively stable... but we can explain this fairly simply: cyclical influxes of nations from other sites, some of whom stick around.

Just an idea. Probably wrong. Makes sense though.

NS has always had those moments, though. New people come in, the old posters complain about the quality, then the old posters disappear.

They disappear cause the get sick of the bs, or they move on with life, sometimes they die. Tet, or life for that matter isn't a fixed thing. The only thing we hope for is for the new poster to figure out how to post, like anything else in life it is a skill.

[Chrinthanium]

People complain about the post quality. They did that in 2008-10 ish? I distinctly remember people going on and on about quality. IIRC, Automagfreak was one of them.

[USS Monitor]

Yeah, I think the activity level in NSG has dropped off from what it was when I first joined NS in 2010. I am not sure exactly when or why this happened.

My guess? Probably in 2013 with some seepage into 2014. Why? Well, I suggest that if you have a sizeable chunk of long term posters whose major message is "lol, stupid teen, piss off my forum" and the bulk of new posters are, yes, teens you're going to offer something that is not conducive to sustainable forum numbers. And then when you lose some of the long-term players in, roughly speaking, one fell swoop you then offer something which moves slower and has less vitality... which probably accelerates existing membership drop off and does not encourage sticking if you're just encountering the forum. However, things seem relatively stable... but we can explain this fairly simply: cyclical influxes of nations from other sites, some of whom stick around.

Just an idea. Probably wrong. Makes sense though.

It seems like there's been a decline more recently than the drama in 2013. I think it has more to do with the way we've been managing the forum. We've gotten stricter about locking bloggy threads, potential trollbait, and threads that are a risk to attract non-PG-13 material. There are a lot of topics that used to get discussed regularly which are no longer allowed. Also, more things have been rolled into megathreads.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I think we might be due for some reform, but I am not sure of the best way to go about it. I haven't brought it up with the other mods because I want to have some useful suggestions ready to go before I start a discussion.

[Ethel mermania]

People complain about the post quality. They did that in 2008-10 ish? I distinctly remember people going on and on about quality. IIRC, Automagfreak was one of them.

I don't remember that poster, but yes they did. Most new poster learn no one wants to hear you have a stomach ache 3 days in a row,, or attention whoring about how psychotic they are. Hopefully they learn there are other things to talk about.

Post quality ebbs and flows. Some days it's better. Some days not so much.

[Forsher]

People complain about the post quality. They did that in 2008-10 ish? I distinctly remember people going on and on about quality. IIRC, Automagfreak was one of them.

But was it accompanied by a large demise of people? And did it survive the transition from Jolt? Because if it didn't, it effectively didn't happen as anyone joining post-Jolt has no idea about what happened on Jolt and so cannot be behaviourally affected by it.

[Chrinthanium]

My guess? Probably in 2013 with some seepage into 2014. Why? Well, I suggest that if you have a sizeable chunk of long term posters whose major message is "lol, stupid teen, piss off my forum" and the bulk of new posters are, yes, teens you're going to offer something that is not conducive to sustainable forum numbers. And then when you lose some of the long-term players in, roughly speaking, one fell swoop you then offer something which moves slower and has less vitality... which probably accelerates existing membership drop off and does not encourage sticking if you're just encountering the forum. However, things seem relatively stable... but we can explain this fairly simply: cyclical influxes of nations from other sites, some of whom stick around.

Just an idea. Probably wrong. Makes sense though.

It seems like there's been a decline more recently than the drama in 2013. I think it has more to do with the way we've been managing the forum. We've gotten stricter about locking bloggy threads, potential trollbait, and threads that are a risk to attract non-PG-13 material. There are a lot of topics that used to get discussed regularly which are no longer allowed. Also, more things have been rolled into megathreads.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I think we might be due for some reform, but I am not sure of the best way to go about it. I haven't brought it up with the other mods because I want to have some useful suggestions ready to go before I start a discussion.

How do you reform? That's what Mega Threads were for: to make the Mod's jobs easier by only having thread in which they could trawl for the rule breakers as they were reported. I don't know if it has made the job easier or harder, though.

[Immoren]

People complain about the post quality. They did that in 2008-10 ish? I distinctly remember people going on and on about quality. IIRC, Automagfreak was one of them.

I had to check if they're still active and appanretly yes. XD

[Ethel mermania]

It seems like there's been a decline more recently than the drama in 2013. I think it has more to do with the way we've been managing the forum. We've gotten stricter about locking bloggy threads, potential trollbait, and threads that are a risk to attract non-PG-13 material. There are a lot of topics that used to get discussed regularly which are no longer allowed. Also, more things have been rolled into megathreads.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I think we might be due for some reform, but I am not sure of the best way to go about it. I haven't brought it up with the other mods because I want to have some useful suggestions ready to go before I start a discussion.

How do you reform? That's what Mega Threads were for: to make the Mod's jobs easier by only having thread in which they could trawl for the rule breakers as they were reported. I don't know if it has made the job easier or harder, though.

Yeah if anything the mega threads have been a positive. We really don't need 32 trump is an idiot threads, one will do.

[The Blaatschapen]

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I think we might be due for some reform, but I am not sure of the best way to go about it. I haven't brought it up with the other mods because I want to have some useful suggestions ready to go before I start a discussion.

I've noticed the megathreadtrend too. I also posted it a few months ago behind bars. Together with a few other things. I would not mind a reform, get some of the megathreads unmega'ed (like the Trump thread, we did not have that for Obama or Bush).

[Forsher]

My guess? Probably in 2013 with some seepage into 2014. Why? Well, I suggest that if you have a sizeable chunk of long term posters whose major message is "lol, stupid teen, piss off my forum" and the bulk of new posters are, yes, teens you're going to offer something that is not conducive to sustainable forum numbers. And then when you lose some of the long-term players in, roughly speaking, one fell swoop you then offer something which moves slower and has less vitality... which probably accelerates existing membership drop off and does not encourage sticking if you're just encountering the forum. However, things seem relatively stable... but we can explain this fairly simply: cyclical influxes of nations from other sites, some of whom stick around.

Just an idea. Probably wrong. Makes sense though.

It seems like there's been a decline more recently than the drama in 2013. I think it has more to do with the way we've been managing the forum. We've gotten stricter about locking bloggy threads, potential trollbait, and threads that are a risk to attract non-PG-13 material. There are a lot of topics that used to get discussed regularly which are no longer allowed. Also, more things have been rolled into megathreads.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I think we might be due for some reform, but I am not sure of the best way to go about it. I haven't brought it up with the other mods because I want to have some useful suggestions ready to go before I start a discussion.

That's another possibility... 2013 was extra busy.

In general, I do not like the blog post rule. It is arbitrarily applied (I've asked, no-one came up with criteria that made sense) and, to be frank, disproportionately by Farn. There is a difference between a badly written discussion and a post which is really about the poster. And even some of those should be allowed to stick around. It is insane that a 20 page long thread gets locked for being a blog. Isn't the entire point of the rule to allow discussions to be fostered? What is 20 pages but discussion? Golf puns? (Sadly, given NSG, this is not a rhetorical question.)

Megathreads... work when we're talking about something with a limited lifetime. When we want to deal with something that is ongoing, they have the effect, I think, of freezing people out. You might be developing an opinion on, say, Trump but instead of being able to comment on [thing] you've got to deal with 200+ pages of baggage. The feminist megathread is worse in this regard because it is literally just six posters from page 1 to page 500, with five more who post intermittently and some one-offs.

[Chrinthanium]

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I think we might be due for some reform, but I am not sure of the best way to go about it. I haven't brought it up with the other mods because I want to have some useful suggestions ready to go before I start a discussion.

I've noticed the megathreadtrend too. I also posted it a few months ago behind bars. Together with a few other things. I would not mind a reform, get some of the megathreads unmega'ed (like the Trump thread, we did not have that for Obama or Bush).

Pretty soon we'll have RP Mega Threads. Everyone with a young, attractive royal, you have to do the Bachelor/Dating RPs in one thread.

[USS Monitor]

People complain about the post quality. They did that in 2008-10 ish? I distinctly remember people going on and on about quality. IIRC, Automagfreak was one of them.

But was it accompanied by a large demise of people? And did it survive the transition from Jolt? Because if it didn't, it effectively didn't happen as anyone joining post-Jolt has no idea about what happened on Jolt and so cannot be behaviourally affected by it.

I don't think people joining now are really aware of things that happened in 2013. Just because the threads still exist doesn't mean new people are reading them.

[Ethel mermania]

It seems like there's been a decline more recently than the drama in 2013. I think it has more to do with the way we've been managing the forum. We've gotten stricter about locking bloggy threads, potential trollbait, and threads that are a risk to attract non-PG-13 material. There are a lot of topics that used to get discussed regularly which are no longer allowed. Also, more things have been rolled into megathreads.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I think we might be due for some reform, but I am not sure of the best way to go about it. I haven't brought it up with the other mods because I want to have some useful suggestions ready to go before I start a discussion.

That's another possibility... 2013 was extra busy.

In general, I do not like the blog post rule. It is arbitrarily applied (I've asked, no-one came up with criteria that made sense) and, to be frank, disproportionately by Farn. There is a difference between a badly written discussion and a post which is really about the poster. And even some of those should be allowed to stick around. It is insane that a 20 page long thread gets locked for being a blog. Isn't the entire point of the rule to allow discussions to be fostered? What is 20 pages but discussion? Golf puns? (Sadly, given NSG, this is not a rhetorical question.)

Megathreads... work when we're talking about something with a limited lifetime. When we want to deal with something that is ongoing, they have the effect, I think, of freezing people out. You might be developing an opinion on, say, Trump but instead of being able to comment on [thing] you've got to deal with 200+ pages of baggage. The feminist megathread is worse in this regard because it is literally just six posters from page 1 to page 500, with five more who post intermittently and some one-offs.

I still like the megathreads, but those are valid points. Sometimes the specifics do get buried under the general.

[Chrinthanium]

It seems like there's been a decline more recently than the drama in 2013. I think it has more to do with the way we've been managing the forum. We've gotten stricter about locking bloggy threads, potential trollbait, and threads that are a risk to attract non-PG-13 material. There are a lot of topics that used to get discussed regularly which are no longer allowed. Also, more things have been rolled into megathreads.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I think we might be due for some reform, but I am not sure of the best way to go about it. I haven't brought it up with the other mods because I want to have some useful suggestions ready to go before I start a discussion.

That's another possibility... 2013 was extra busy.

In general, I do not like the blog post rule. It is arbitrarily applied (I've asked, no-one came up with criteria that made sense) and, to be frank, disproportionately by Farn. There is a difference between a badly written discussion and a post which is really about the poster. And even some of those should be allowed to stick around. It is insane that a 20 page long thread gets locked for being a blog. Isn't the entire point of the rule to allow discussions to be fostered? What is 20 pages but discussion? Golf puns? (Sadly, given NSG, this is not a rhetorical question.)

Megathreads... work when we're talking about something with a limited lifetime. When we want to deal with something that is ongoing, they have the effect, I think, of freezing people out. You might be developing an opinion on, say, Trump but instead of being able to comment on [thing] you've got to deal with 200+ pages of baggage. The feminist megathread is worse in this regard because it is literally just six posters from page 1 to page 500, with five more who post intermittently and some one-offs.

I avoid the Mega Threads because someone has either stated my opinion, stated it better than me, or by the time I'm done writing a reply, we've moved past the reason for my post. I do not like Mega Threads. I also don't do discussions in General outside of TET, so there's that.

The blog thread convo is better suited for Moderation, isn't it?

[USS Monitor]

It seems like there's been a decline more recently than the drama in 2013. I think it has more to do with the way we've been managing the forum. We've gotten stricter about locking bloggy threads, potential trollbait, and threads that are a risk to attract non-PG-13 material. There are a lot of topics that used to get discussed regularly which are no longer allowed. Also, more things have been rolled into megathreads.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I think we might be due for some reform, but I am not sure of the best way to go about it. I haven't brought it up with the other mods because I want to have some useful suggestions ready to go before I start a discussion.

How do you reform? That's what Mega Threads were for: to make the Mod's jobs easier by only having thread in which they could trawl for the rule breakers as they were reported. I don't know if it has made the job easier or harder, though.

I don't think we should be doing things that make moderating easier at the cost of making the forum less interesting.

[Forsher]

But was it accompanied by a large demise of people? And did it survive the transition from Jolt? Because if it didn't, it effectively didn't happen as anyone joining post-Jolt has no idea about what happened on Jolt and so cannot be behaviourally affected by it.

I don't think people joining now are really aware of things that happened in 2013. Just because the threads still exist doesn't mean new people are reading them.

That's what I mean.

Pretend the active core of posters in 2013 was 120, and new members cause this to fluctuate and member-loss caused this fluctuate but it's living around 120.

Due to events in 2013, pretend this drops off to 110. Fluctuation happens in the same way, but because there are fewer people, the forum has less vitality and thus the fluctuations are lesser. So instead of two months with 130, you get one month of 115. A death spiral should eventuate (assuming 110 is not a critical mass) but does not because exogenous events like the Reddit influx cause numbers to jump up suddenly and this injects some temporary vitality.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

People complain about the post quality. They did that in 2008-10 ish? I distinctly remember people going on and on about quality. IIRC, Automagfreak was one of them.

But was it accompanied by a large demise of people? And did it survive the transition from Jolt? Because if it didn't, it effectively didn't happen as anyone joining post-Jolt has no idea about what happened on Jolt and so cannot be behaviourally affected by it.

The large demise of people I thought was due to Neo-Art leading the whole "mods don't respect your privacy" bit and falling out en masse with the site (only to later on backfiring on Neo-Art as I recall).

The posting quality, as far as I recall, wasn't a thing people were too bothered about. People voiced their concerns, but it wasn't like it was an endemic problem, as far as I can recall.

[Ethel mermania]

That's another possibility... 2013 was extra busy.

In general, I do not like the blog post rule. It is arbitrarily applied (I've asked, no-one came up with criteria that made sense) and, to be frank, disproportionately by Farn. There is a difference between a badly written discussion and a post which is really about the poster. And even some of those should be allowed to stick around. It is insane that a 20 page long thread gets locked for being a blog. Isn't the entire point of the rule to allow discussions to be fostered? What is 20 pages but discussion? Golf puns? (Sadly, given NSG, this is not a rhetorical question.)

Megathreads... work when we're talking about something with a limited lifetime. When we want to deal with something that is ongoing, they have the effect, I think, of freezing people out. You might be developing an opinion on, say, Trump but instead of being able to comment on [thing] you've got to deal with 200+ pages of baggage. The feminist megathread is worse in this regard because it is literally just six posters from page 1 to page 500, with five more who post intermittently and some one-offs.

I avoid the Mega Threads because someone has either stated my opinion, stated it better than me, or by the time I'm done writing a reply, we've moved past the reason for my post. I do not like Mega Threads. I also don't do discussions in General outside of TET, so there's that.

The blog thread convo is better suited for Moderation, isn't it?

As a genreal conversation topic I think it's fine for tet, if you are asking for a moderation policy change, then yeas that belongs in moderation.

[Chrinthanium]

How do you reform? That's what Mega Threads were for: to make the Mod's jobs easier by only having thread in which they could trawl for the rule breakers as they were reported. I don't know if it has made the job easier or harder, though.

I don't think we should be doing things that make moderating easier at the cost of making the forum less interesting.

I agree, but I've been around for a while like many other people. I remember times when moderators were so busy running around putting out tiny fires everywhere that it seemed like every time you saw a username in red in a thread, someone got throat punched with a banhammer, warning, or DEAT. I know Mods and Admins don't get paid for their work and, in a forum this busy, they put in a lot of work. There has to be a balance between keeping things interesting and preventing moderators from running around from fire to fire.

[Chrinthanium]

But was it accompanied by a large demise of people? And did it survive the transition from Jolt? Because if it didn't, it effectively didn't happen as anyone joining post-Jolt has no idea about what happened on Jolt and so cannot be behaviourally affected by it.

The large demise of people I thought was due to Neo-Art leading the whole "mods don't respect your privacy" bit and falling out en masse with the site (only to later on backfiring on Neo-Art as I recall).

The posting quality, as far as I recall, wasn't a thing people were too bothered about. People voiced their concerns, but it wasn't like it was an endemic problem, as far as I can recall.

Oh I remember. There's a reason there are stickies and mentors.

[The Blaatschapen]

The blog thread convo is better suited for Moderation, isn't it?

Been there, done that, nothing changed.

Apparently, leopards can't change their shorts... but I am now curious, is it possible to stop a specific post from being edited? I know players can lose editing privileges but can posts? Because then the solution to the issue raised by NERV in that thread is simply to edit the OP. Indeed, double posts are deletable, and I've seen troll threads lose their OPs and so it is also possible to edit the second post and allow things to continue.

As to the ET, there seems to be less sharp a divide between TET and NSG these days, probably due to less activity in TET.

[The Blaatschapen]

I avoid the Mega Threads because someone has either stated my opinion, stated it better than me, or by the time I'm done writing a reply, we've moved past the reason for my post. I do not like Mega Threads. I also don't do discussions in General outside of TET, so there's that.

The blog thread convo is better suited for Moderation, isn't it?

As a genreal conversation topic I think it's fine for tet, if you are asking for a moderation policy change, then yeas that belongs in moderation.

Pretty much this. If it gets into modbashing, we might have to review, since this is still a lighthearted chat thread, so any serious bashing it's not the place for

[Ethel mermania]

The blog thread convo is better suited for Moderation, isn't it?

Been there, done that, nothing changed.

Apparently, leopards can't change their shorts... but I am now curious, is it possible to stop a specific post from being edited? I know players can lose editing privileges but can posts? Because then the solution to the issue raised by NERV in that thread is simply to edit the OP. Indeed, double posts are deletable, and I've seen troll threads lose their OPs and so it is also possible to edit the second post and allow things to continue.

As to the ET, there seems to be less sharp a divide between TET and NSG these days, probably due to less activity in TET.

TET was suppose to take the chat our of the topical threads, and as far as that goes I think it has been a success