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The Leith Nazis: To Zone Them Out Or Not To Zone Them Out

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The Rich Port
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The Leith Nazis: To Zone Them Out Or Not To Zone Them Out

Postby The Rich Port » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:18 pm

While this is an apparently old issue, I somehow missed it. But also, there's a new documentary about it. So fuck it I'm going to make this thread.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25646954

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Leith

If you haven't checked out the documentary, I recommend it.

For those that didn't know, like me, the town of Leith, North Dakota suffered what was more or less the beginnings of a Nazi invasion when "infamous" (read: annoying) white supremacist Craig Cobb (confirmed to have African blood... Like most people, though this conflicts with a lot of neo-Nazi narratives based on paleonazi Aryan supremacy teachings) bought up a bunch of cheap land in the town in order to set the stage for a large number of others like himself to move to the town.

Essentially, though this was apparently not known at the time, Cobb basically snuck into the town without stating his intentions, and before the town knew what they were dealing with, it was too late. Cobb, by way of technicality, was going to establish a majority in the town, thereby voting out the current incumbent officials, taking over the budget, codes, and the property of the local government. However, the local residents (of which there weren't that many, maybe 15 :lol: ) didn't take this lying down. They made Cobb's and his lackeys' lives miserable until Cobb and one of his cronies, a former Iraq war veteran, snapped and went on a "patrol" of their property. This involved getting into altercations with some of the locals, yelling and brandishing their guns at them. They were later arrested by the police and charged with terrorizing. The war veteran then flipped on Cobb in exchange for having his indictments dropped.

Not only that, but the local board imposed a zoning law that more or less would guarantee Cobb's eviction: they required that any property in the town had to have working plumbing. Cobb, lacking budget, time, and planning (because "Nazi" is not a job, nor is it a guarantee of intelligence or foresight), lashed out at the town for imposing such a "draconian" measure (it was really only a problem for the newly arrived Nazis, since they hadn't bothered with sewage when building their ramshackle houses but had bothered with... Everything else), which he surmised (somewhat correctly) that they had imposed simply to evict him, screwing his entire plan.

In my opinion, I think the residents of Leith were justified in their possible crimes against the Cobb cabal. Instead of engaging with the town on a legitimate level, Cobb resorted to underhanded trickery and cowardly secrecy in order to insert himself into the town, avoiding suspicion until it benefited him. The town, in turn, responded with the same underhandedness. However, I will not deny that their tactics were indeed underhanded. Not the zoning law. The council was well within their rights to do this. Whether the townspeople (and, really, it could have been anyone, though the townspeople were probably guilty of this maybe) were in the right to harass the Nazis is what is in contention. Of course, then there's the question if they did indeed harass them.

To this day, some of the land Cobb bought remains under the deedship of several Nazis. However, there have been no apparent efforts on their part to try to retake Leith.

But what do you guys think? Did Cobb have a right to establish his little Nazi wonderland under democratic rule? Were his tactics legitimate or should they have been subject to intervention by outside law enforcement? Should the town have the right to expulse them legitimately? Should they have sucked up the Nazi takeover? Or do you feel their efforts were justified?
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Tsaraine
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Postby Tsaraine » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:28 pm

Seems reasonable. Houses need plumbing and towns need fewer nazis.

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:37 pm

Tsaraine wrote:Seems reasonable. Houses need plumbing and towns need fewer nazis.


Oh, the irony...

Um...

Dammit. I had something clever for this.

Something about sewage.

Anyway, I cannot fucking believe that was his exact word. "Draconian".

"The sons of bitches. How dare they require everyone to have running water. THE FASCISM."
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Tsaraine
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Postby Tsaraine » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:40 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Tsaraine wrote:Seems reasonable. Houses need plumbing and towns need fewer nazis.


Oh, the irony...

Um...

Dammit. I had something clever for this.

Something about sewage.

Anyway, I cannot fucking believe that was his exact word. "Draconian".

"The sons of bitches. How dare they require everyone to have running water. THE FASCISM."

Nazis aren't known for their smarts. You don't adhere to an ideology that got flattened under a T-34 in 1945 if you're full of sparks and opportunities in life.

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Zakuvia
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Postby Zakuvia » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:46 pm

Now to find the one Jewish plumber in North Dakota...

I can just imagine the hijinks. He sneaks matzo balls into their car's tailpipes, makes their faucets spray in a Star of David pattern, clogs their sinks with shorn paises.

I smell a s(h)itcom!

EDIT: Strikethroughs are rough to see on single letters...
Last edited by Zakuvia on Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:53 pm

Zakuvia wrote:Now to find the one Jewish plumber in North Dakota...

I can just imagine the hijinks. He sneaks matzo balls into their car's tailpipes, makes their faucets spray in a Star of David pattern, clogs their sinks with shorn paises.

I smell a shitcom!


... An itcom?
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Zakuvia
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Postby Zakuvia » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:06 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Zakuvia wrote:Now to find the one Jewish plumber in North Dakota...

I can just imagine the hijinks. He sneaks matzo balls into their car's tailpipes, makes their faucets spray in a Star of David pattern, clogs their sinks with shorn paises.

I smell a shitcom!


... An itcom?


Fixed...
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:34 pm

Tsaraine wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
Oh, the irony...

Um...

Dammit. I had something clever for this.

Something about sewage.

Anyway, I cannot fucking believe that was his exact word. "Draconian".

"The sons of bitches. How dare they require everyone to have running water. THE FASCISM."

Nazis aren't known for their smarts. You don't adhere to an ideology that got flattened under a T-34 in 1945 if you're full of sparks and opportunities in life.


Eh, I'll give Cobb credit.

It was a pretty smart gambit... Too bad it was a Batman gambit and he was a Punisher villain.
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Postby Community Values » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:48 pm

This happens at some level all the time. Remember the free-state project?

Anyways, even if they got a majority in the town they couldn't do much. You can't really discriminate against people because there's laws against it, the best they could do is be Constitution levels of conservative.

Really, this is just a case of town members being annoyed that their town was the subject of a neo-nazi experiment that was bound to fail from the start (even if they got the people for it). I don't particularly like the fact that the zoning laws were most likely politically motivated, but Cobb was still going against the law.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:33 pm

Community Values wrote:This happens at some level all the time. Remember the free-state project?

Anyways, even if they got a majority in the town they couldn't do much. You can't really discriminate against people because there's laws against it, the best they could do is be Constitution levels of conservative.

Really, this is just a case of town members being annoyed that their town was the subject of a neo-nazi experiment that was bound to fail from the start (even if they got the people for it). I don't particularly like the fact that the zoning laws were most likely politically motivated, but Cobb was still going against the law.


I'll give the Free Staters credit. Their movement was far larger, far more successful... And they weren't Nazis.

Well, yeah. A common criticism I hear of the town of Leith is that they fought potential discrimination with actual discrimination.

No, they were pretty angry at the fact people didn't know that democracy won WW2. They were definitely more than annoyed. Shit, I think one of the residents was a WW2 veteran.

... Requiring indoor plumbing is politically motivated? I mean, sure, they didn't have that law on the books at the time... But a Nazi take-over is a good a time as any to make sure that law is on the books.
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FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE DONE.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE BECOME.
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YOU NEVER KNOW JUST HOW YOU LOOK THROUGH OTHER PEOPLE'S EYES.

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Postby The Liberated Territories » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:29 pm

This seems like a perversion of the law. Refusing to associate is good and all but if it were the opposite way around (Nazis forcing out black tenants via a law requiring them to have plumbing) there would be howling at the roof. I cannot condone the method used here to attempt to evict Cobb.
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Postby Des-Bal » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:43 pm

When the morality of an action is dictated by which side you agree with you might just find yourself fucked when you are no longer in the majority. Arranging the law to dick someone over makes you a dick.
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:47 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:This seems like a perversion of the law. Refusing to associate is good and all but if it were the opposite way around (Nazis forcing out black tenants via a law requiring them to have plumbing) there would be howling at the roof. I cannot condone the method used here to attempt to evict Cobb.


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Postby Collectivist Germania » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:49 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:This seems like a perversion of the law. Refusing to associate is good and all but if it were the opposite way around (Nazis forcing out black tenants via a law requiring them to have plumbing) there would be howling at the roof. I cannot condone the method used here to attempt to evict Cobb.


Spot on.
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Zakuvia
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Postby Zakuvia » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:51 pm

Collectivist Germania wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:This seems like a perversion of the law. Refusing to associate is good and all but if it were the opposite way around (Nazis forcing out black tenants via a law requiring them to have plumbing) there would be howling at the roof. I cannot condone the method used here to attempt to evict Cobb.


Spot on.


Considering your sig, I think there's a touch of tipped scales in that.
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Postby Collectivist Germania » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:00 pm

Zakuvia wrote:
Collectivist Germania wrote:
Spot on.


Considering your sig, I think there's a touch of tipped scales in that.


I don't support Cobb or white supremacy, for the record.
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Postby Mahdistan » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:09 pm

They really shouldn't have harassed them, but it seems the town has the right idea.

And please, if you're going to found an ideological paradise, homestead, out in the middle of nowhere, where people won't care. If they'd just done that and not rubbed-elbows with the locals, there would have been no controversy. It's worked in plenty of other cases.
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:21 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:This seems like a perversion of the law. Refusing to associate is good and all but if it were the opposite way around (Nazis forcing out black tenants via a law requiring them to have plumbing) there would be howling at the roof. I cannot condone the method used here to attempt to evict Cobb.

Agreed.
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:23 pm

So basically, the town played their hand smart?
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Postby Oil exporting People » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:48 pm

Tsaraine wrote:Nazis aren't known for their smarts. You don't adhere to an ideology that got flattened under a T-34 in 1945 if you're full of sparks and opportunities in life.


On one hand, I agree with the general meaning behind this post but the Historian side of me desperately wishes to poke holes in the bit concerning T-34s and the insinuation contained within. :p
Last edited by Oil exporting People on Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Rusozak » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:56 pm

Mahdistan wrote:They really shouldn't have harassed them, but it seems the town has the right idea.

And please, if you're going to found an ideological paradise, homestead, out in the middle of nowhere, where people won't care. If they'd just done that and not rubbed-elbows with the locals, there would have been no controversy. It's worked in plenty of other cases.


Nazis are also not historically known for rubbing elbows with neighbors and ending up on top.
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Postby Salus Maior » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:12 pm

Good. I think it's perfectly fine that they drove out the skinheads. I don't particularly care that they did it in a roundabout way.
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Postby Collatis » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:13 pm

Zakuvia wrote:Now to find the one Jewish plumber in North Dakota...

I can just imagine the hijinks. He sneaks matzo balls into their car's tailpipes, makes their faucets spray in a Star of David pattern, clogs their sinks with shorn paises.

I smell a s(h)itcom!

EDIT: Strikethroughs are rough to see on single letters...

North Dakota is home to 800 Jews, the least in the nation. I wouldn't be surprised if there were no Jewish plumbers in the state at all :p

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Postby Minzerland II » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:15 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:This seems like a perversion of the law. Refusing to associate is good and all but if it were the opposite way around (Nazis forcing out black tenants via a law requiring them to have plumbing) there would be howling at the roof. I cannot condone the method used here to attempt to evict Cobb.

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Postby Liriena » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:42 pm

Well, if it helps to keep Nazis out of their community, more power to them. Methods may not be strictly legitimate, but their hearts are in the right place and I can forgive shady local politics if it means ruining a Nazi's schemes.
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