Brexit will bring a United Ireland closer

[Ni Cheapaim]

To which I provided evidence to the contrary. Is it the being challenged on that point that has you adopting an adversarial stance? I don't mind avoiding further discussion if that's the case but I was under the impression this was, among other things, a debate site.

You provided a survey from several months ago when my suggestion was based on recent events.

The recent events strengthen the impetus for Irish unification and Stormont is only down at the moment at the will of SF. In particular following the elections in March and the recent MLA number changes the DUP are unlikely to have the numbers to continue using the PoC to their advantage. That allows SF to push through more progressive policies and further demonstrate that it is the Nationalist / Republican parties that are working for the people rather than the DUP who are working only for the Free Presbyterian community and their friends whose pockets need lined.

[Ifreann]

You provided a survey from several months ago when my suggestion was based on recent events.

The recent events strengthen the impetus for Irish unification and Stormont is only down at the moment at the will of SF. In particular following the elections in March and the recent MLA number changes the DUP are unlikely to have the numbers to continue using the PoC to their advantage. That allows SF to push through more progressive policies and further demonstrate that it is the Nationalist / Republican parties that are working for the people rather than the DUP who are working only for the Free Presbyterian community and their friends whose pockets need lined.

Support for joining the Republic might grow in the North when their government is being crap, but why would that increase support in the Republic for the North joining us? Why would we want to take over governing a country that produces politicians that are, at best, every bit as bad as our own?

[The European Federation-]

No I was not implying Northern Ireland the entity is 217 years old. I was referring to the land and the people living on it. My point is, being separated for very long periods of time and being exposed to different social-cultural-economic, and political systems for that period leds to very different characters and societies, even if they may look similar. So that natural return as you put it, in my eyes, may not be so natural any more. Still, I suppose only time will tell. Rationally though, I just don't see it happening.

Yes it led to a stronger divide between the PUL and Catholic + Nationalist communities due to the sectarian structure of government and society in the North with them developing along completely separate cultural lines in that period. The border between the North and the rest of Ireland is a much weaker barrier to culture than the barrier the PUL lot created for themselves with their paranoia and fear of the Catholic minority.

I understand that point of view, but others would likely disagree (Namely the PUL as you refer to them). Still though I feel your looking at it from an outdated perspective (Namely the Catholic republican vs the Protestant Loyalist POVs). The first generation of Northern Irish born after the good Friday agreement of 97 has just finished university by now (obviously a generalisation) and are generally less religious or sectarian (A good thing in my opinion, but I suppose that isn't reverent). I've seen no swing towards a United Ireland from these youths (or towards remaining with the UK for that matter). Fingers crossed but that burning feeling of Irishness/Britishness looks like it will apply less and less as the decades roll on. So to answer the post, no, I just don;t think Northern Ireland will join the republic of Ireland. But, who knows really?

[Ni Cheapaim]

The recent events strengthen the impetus for Irish unification and Stormont is only down at the moment at the will of SF. In particular following the elections in March and the recent MLA number changes the DUP are unlikely to have the numbers to continue using the PoC to their advantage. That allows SF to push through more progressive policies and further demonstrate that it is the Nationalist / Republican parties that are working for the people rather than the DUP who are working only for the Free Presbyterian community and their friends whose pockets need lined.

Support for joining the Republic might grow in the North when their government is being crap, but why would that increase support in the Republic for the North joining us? Why would we want to take over governing a country that produces politicians that are, at best, every bit as bad as our own?

You're overemphasising what is happening with Stormont at present. This is a stable political move that won't leave to prolonged slide back to the old ways of the 70s. It'll result in Arlene being removed from office, SF therefore being able to place a member in the DFM position, and overall the DUP will lose the numbers they need for the PoC. This will all be over after March with Republicanism / Nationalism in the winning position thanks to the DUPs malfeasance and bigotry. Particularly as the PSNI opening fraud investigations into RHI will keep the story front and centre in the media throughout the elections.

There is also the long term economic benefits of removing two competing economies within such a small island.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/econ ... -1.2435505

[Valaran]

I somehow get the impression that regardless of whether this will happen or not, the OP wants you to think it will.

[Ni Cheapaim]

Yes it led to a stronger divide between the PUL and Catholic + Nationalist communities due to the sectarian structure of government and society in the North with them developing along completely separate cultural lines in that period. The border between the North and the rest of Ireland is a much weaker barrier to culture than the barrier the PUL lot created for themselves with their paranoia and fear of the Catholic minority.

I understand that point of view, but others would likely disagree (Namely the PUL as you refer to them). Still though I feel your looking at it from an outdated perspective (Namely the Catholic republican vs the Protestant Loyalist POVs).The first generation of Northern Irish born after the good Friday agreement of 97 has just finished university by now (obviously a generalisation) and are generally less religious or sectarian (A good thing in my opinion, but I suppose that isn't reverent).

While I see your belief that the societal pressures of centuries being overcome in a single generation as entirely naive.

Fingers crossed but that burning feeling of Irishness/Britishness looks like it will apply less and less as the decades roll on. So to answer the post, no, I just don;t think Northern Ireland will join the republic of Ireland. But, who knows really?

I too believe that the burning divide of identities will ease with time. A generation is far too short for meaningful change given the atrocity that was the Stormont government of the 20th century. I believe that lessening of emotional attachment to Britain will open up the PUL community to discussion of the economic and social benefits of joining Ireland.

[Ni Cheapaim]

I somehow get the impression that regardless of whether this will happen or not, the OP wants you to think it will.

You're surprised that the OP has an opinion on the matter and is willing to defend it?

You must not get much debate around here normally if that's a shock.

[Valaran]

I somehow get the impression that regardless of whether this will happen or not, the OP wants you to think it will.

You're surprised that the OP has an opinion on the matter and is willing to defend it?

You must not get much debate around here normally if that's a shock.

Perhaps you'd like to point out where I said I was surprised.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I somehow get the impression that regardless of whether this will happen or not, the OP wants you to think it will.

Yeah i dont see it happening any time soon even if there is a slight rise in support for irish unification in the north because of brexit.

[Valaran]

I somehow get the impression that regardless of whether this will happen or not, the OP wants you to think it will.

Yeah i dont see it happening any time soon even if there is a slight rise in support for irish unification in the north because of brexit.

Agreed.

[Ni Cheapaim]

You're surprised that the OP has an opinion on the matter and is willing to defend it?

You must not get much debate around here normally if that's a shock.

Perhaps you'd like to point out where I said I was surprised.

That you thought it was a thing worthy of any comment at all suggests you think it is notable.....

....which is concerning for you and here.

[The European Federation-]

I understand that point of view, but others would likely disagree (Namely the PUL as you refer to them). Still though I feel your looking at it from an outdated perspective (Namely the Catholic republican vs the Protestant Loyalist POVs).The first generation of Northern Irish born after the good Friday agreement of 97 has just finished university by now (obviously a generalisation) and are generally less religious or sectarian (A good thing in my opinion, but I suppose that isn't reverent).

While I see your belief that the societal pressures of centuries being overcome in a single generation as entirely naive.

Fingers crossed but that burning feeling of Irishness/Britishness looks like it will apply less and less as the decades roll on. So to answer the post, no, I just don;t think Northern Ireland will join the republic of Ireland. But, who knows really?

I too believe that the burning divide of identities will ease with time. A generation is far too short for meaningful change given the atrocity that was the Stormont government of the 20th century. I believe that lessening of emotional attachment to Britain will open up the PUL community to discussion of the economic and social benefits of joining Ireland.

Well, I don't believe that losing ties with the United Kingdom and joining the Republic is inherently good for Northern Ireland (That is not an objective view, it is ideological). Still, we appear to have reached an educated understanding. I understand your view, just don't see it applied healthily as a future policy for The Island.

[Valaran]

That you thought it was a thing worthy of any comment at all suggests you think it is notable.....

....which is concerning for you and here.

Notability does not equal surprise.

It takes minimal effort to type a single sentence and post it; I somehow doubt that all the 20,000 times I've done this on NS were because something was notable.

[Mefpan]

The only way Ireland is going to be reunited is if Britain reintegrates the southern part of the island.

[Thermodolia]

Isnt the CTA with Ireland completely separate from the EU?

[Ni Cheapaim]

While I see your belief that the societal pressures of centuries being overcome in a single generation as entirely naive.



I too believe that the burning divide of identities will ease with time. A generation is far too short for meaningful change given the atrocity that was the Stormont government of the 20th century. I believe that lessening of emotional attachment to Britain will open up the PUL community to discussion of the economic and social benefits of joining Ireland.

Well, I don't believe that losing ties with the United Kingdom and joining the Republic is inherently good for Northern Ireland (That is not an objective view, it is ideological). Still, we appear to have reached an educated understanding. I understand your view, just don't see it applied healthily as a future policy for The Island.

May I ask why that is you ideological view?

[Ni Cheapaim]

Isnt the CTA with Ireland completely separate from the EU?

The CTA existed prior to the EU however the EU does impact the CTA.

[Ifreann]

Support for joining the Republic might grow in the North when their government is being crap, but why would that increase support in the Republic for the North joining us? Why would we want to take over governing a country that produces politicians that are, at best, every bit as bad as our own?

You're overemphasising what is happening with Stormont at present.

I suppose. I still just generally don't see why we would want to unite with the North.

There is also the long term economic benefits of removing two competing economies within such a small island.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/econ ... -1.2435505

€36.5 billion in eight years isn't a half bad reason.

[Ni Cheapaim]

The only way Ireland is going to be reunited is if Britain reintegrates the southern part of the island.

Fortunately for the world Britain hasn't got the capability for their imperial ways of the past.

[Platypus Reborn]

I think Brexit is going to end poorly for Britain. I understand closing their borders from the swarm of refugess, but I don't think their economy will do to well.

[Lady Scylla]

The vast majority of the Northern Irish wouldn't agree with you there. I suggest you review the polling on the question of re-unification of the "Six counties" with the south.

I think you need to understand the context I was referring to. The poster I replied to indicated he was speaking from a position within the Irish state

Iffy's Irish. -facepalm-

[Ni Cheapaim]

I think you need to understand the context I was referring to. The poster I replied to indicated he was speaking from a position within the Irish state

Iffy's Irish. -facepalm-

Yes?

Like I said?

The poster I replied to indicated he was speaking from a position within the Irish state

[Lady Scylla]

I agree with Iffy. NI can stay UK, place is the Afghanistan and a money blackhole of the isles, and last Ireland needs is that. If it suits their fancy, NI can just be an independent state, pretty sure the Ulster-Scots are still big on that.

[Mefpan]

The only way Ireland is going to be reunited is if Britain reintegrates the southern part of the island.

Fortunately for the world Britain hasn't got the capability for their imperial ways of the past.

Well, for some nations it's fortunate. Others...well. That becomes more debatable, given what those countries did with their independence.

Regardless, I don't see Britain imploding any time soon.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I agree with Iffy. NI can stay UK, place is the Afghanistan and a money blackhole of the isles, and last Ireland needs is that. If it suits their fancy, NI can just be an independent state, pretty sure the Ulster-Scots are still big on that.

Thanks.