Russia; will they make a big move in Eastern Europe?

[Uxupox]

Ukraine is a big problem because most of its territory was created via forced Soviet annexation from neighboring nations that had no choice. In reality, the Russian Soviets were the ones pulling the strings. Ukraine was to become a buffer state for Russia. Good plan but the Russians outsmarted themselves. Instead of attaching those forcibly annexed territories to Ukraine they should have attached them directly to Russia. Crimea was always Russian until one of its leaders decided to illegally gift it to Ukraine. Chances are that if he had known Ukraine would one day leave that he would not have gifted Crimea to Ukraine. So its 2017, the Russians seem to be trying to set right what they now consider the mistaken decisions of previous Soviet politicians. Mistakes which today they consider has created for them major security problems since Ukraine is no longer a buffer State under there control like in Soviet times. After all, back then annexing those territories was all about creating a buffer zone for Russia.

The problem with all of those irredentist/ethnonationalist claims over Crimea is that Russia recognized Crimea as a part of Ukraine by treaty (including the Belavezha Accords, the Budapest Memorandum and the 1997 Partition Treaty on the Status and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet). It's just meaningless rhetoric designed to justify military aggression and expansionism.

But anyway, the fact that Ukraine will never return to being a friendly state is one of the big disbenefits of Russia's Ukraine policy. They completely destroyed any chance of a working relationship or solidarity with Ukraine. I don't see relations ever returning to normal after this. Sure, they get to retain their Black Sea Fleet base, but at what cost in the long term? No one held a gun to their head and made them resort to such extreme measures.

Instead of courting the Ukrainians into SCO they resorted to simple opportunism when the civil war broke out.

[Thermodolia]

Nuclear apocalypse also comes to mind

With the missile shields that the public both knows about and doesn't, I highly doubt they would have the time to start a nuclear holocaust and even if they could they wouldn't. Its a virtual death sentence that even Putin couldn't survive, and some of his generals would end up shooting him. Their leadership and ours doesn't want a nuclear war.

Yes but it might not be us that starts its. Somebody in India or Israel or even China could go nuts.

[Oil exporting People]

"World War" is a strong word. "Largest rout in history" is much closer to the truth.

For NATO? Yes. The Russian Army is far superior to anything the Europeans can throw at it, and does maintain some sizable advantages over the US (Namely, tank quality and ability to more rapidly bring their's into play).

This is also academic, however, because the Russians have no desire nor reason to invade Eastern Europe.

[Thermodolia]

So all those Russian troops where just taking a vacation?

Seems you need to see these videos.They will explain some of the problems. With the exception of the last one that lasts a little over 4 min. the first two last less then three minutes. -

On Russia - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6LIhNgsQoc

On the Ukraine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eicrsq6K85I

This on Russia military options in Ukraine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCMn-WDTIf8

Oh look YouTube videos they might as well be KGB FSB propaganda

[Uxupox]

With the missile shields that the public both knows about and doesn't, I highly doubt they would have the time to start a nuclear holocaust and even if they could they wouldn't. Its a virtual death sentence that even Putin couldn't survive, and some of his generals would end up shooting him. Their leadership and ours doesn't want a nuclear war.

Yes but it might not be us that starts its. Somebody in India or Israel or even China could go nuts.

More likely Pakistan.

[Rio Cana]

Ukraine is a big problem because most of its territory was created via forced Soviet annexation from neighboring nations that had no choice. In reality, the Russian Soviets were the ones pulling the strings. Ukraine was to become a buffer state for Russia. Good plan but the Russians outsmarted themselves. Instead of attaching those forcibly annexed territories to Ukraine they should have attached them directly to Russia. Crimea was always Russian until one of its leaders decided to illegally gift it to Ukraine. Chances are that if he had known Ukraine would one day leave that he would not have gifted Crimea to Ukraine. So its 2017, the Russians seem to be trying to set right what they now consider the mistaken decisions of previous Soviet politicians. Mistakes which today they consider has created for them major security problems since Ukraine is no longer a buffer State under there control like in Soviet times. After all, back then annexing those territories was all about creating a buffer zone for Russia.

The problem with all of those irredentist/ethnonationalist claims over Crimea is that Russia recognized Crimea as a part of Ukraine by treaty (including the Belavezha Accords, the Budapest Memorandum and the 1997 Partition Treaty on the Status and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet). It's just meaningless rhetoric designed to justify military aggression and expansionism.

But anyway, the fact that Ukraine will never return to being a friendly state is one of the big disbenefits of Russia's Ukraine policy. I don't see relations ever returning to normal after what Russia did. Sure, they get to retain their Black Sea Fleet base, but at what cost in the long term? No one held a gun to their head and made them resort to such extreme measures.

I would think that certain nations like Romania, Poland, Slovakia and Hungry which would more then not like some of there territories back from Ukraine, would follow Russia's example in voiding former treaties which they had with the Soviets when it came to Ukraine and the ceding of territories.

[Thermodolia]

"World War" is a strong word. "Largest rout in history" is much closer to the truth.

For NATO? Yes. The Russian Army is far superior to anything the Europeans can throw at it, and does maintain some sizable advantages over the US (Namely, tank quality and ability to more rapidly bring their's into play).

This is also academic, however, because the Russians have no desire nor reason to invade Eastern Europe.

Hence why I think the chance for nuclear war would be extremely high if that where to happen. Even France might say fuck it at that point

[Rio Cana]

Seems you need to see these videos.They will explain some of the problems. With the exception of the last one that lasts a little over 4 min. the first two last less then three minutes. -

On Russia - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6LIhNgsQoc

On the Ukraine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eicrsq6K85I

This on Russia military options in Ukraine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCMn-WDTIf8

Oh look YouTube videos they might as well be KGB FSB propaganda

They come from a US source that seems reliable.

[Sack Jackpot Winners]

"World War" is a strong word. "Largest rout in history" is much closer to the truth.

For NATO? Yes. The Russian Army is far superior to anything the Europeans can throw at it, and does maintain some sizable advantages over the US (Namely, tank quality and ability to more rapidly bring their's into play).

This is also academic, however, because the Russians have no desire nor reason to invade Eastern Europe.

Oh no, NATO would wipe the Russian Army from the history books it would be so clean. The Russian military has been working nearly ten years just to keep their armed forces supplied, trained, following orders, not mutinying, and not selling off military items. Sort of the point of this.

The US in particular could take down Russia on its own, simply by aligning itself with the oligarchs and funding the opposition.

[Thermodolia]

Yes but it might not be us that starts its. Somebody in India or Israel or even China could go nuts.

More likely Pakistan.

Who will most likely hit India and China first. India hits both Pakistan and China. China says fuck it and hits every one, and then shit goes down hill from there.

[Thermodolia]

For NATO? Yes. The Russian Army is far superior to anything the Europeans can throw at it, and does maintain some sizable advantages over the US (Namely, tank quality and ability to more rapidly bring their's into play).

This is also academic, however, because the Russians have no desire nor reason to invade Eastern Europe.

Oh no, NATO would wipe the Russian Army from the history books it would be so clean. The Russian military has been working nearly ten years just to keep their armed forces supplied, trained, following orders, not mutinying, and not selling off military items. Sort of the point of this.

The US in particular could take down Russia on its own, simply by aligning itself with the oligarchs and funding the opposition.

Which the US would most likely do.

[Uxupox]

For NATO? Yes. The Russian Army is far superior to anything the Europeans can throw at it, and does maintain some sizable advantages over the US (Namely, tank quality and ability to more rapidly bring their's into play).

This is also academic, however, because the Russians have no desire nor reason to invade Eastern Europe.

Oh no, NATO would wipe the Russian Army from the history books it would be so clean. The Russian military has been working nearly ten years just to keep their armed forces supplied, trained, following orders, not mutinying, and not selling off military items. Sort of the point of this.

The US in particular could take down Russia on its own, simply by aligning itself with the oligarchs and funding the opposition.

I'd rather not try though. The Germans were completely optimistic in their regards for military success in 1941 but got completely smashed by a combination of Soviet ingenuity, weather and some trash German civilian leaders (Hitler in particular).

[Balkenreich]

Arming other nations is what got us into trouble in the first place. It needs to stop.

You think the government of Ukraine will go from this to terrorists if we give them arms? They've existed for decades after the fall of the USSR, and the government of Ukraine hasn't been known to carry out terrorist operations. It's not like we don't know who we're supplying here.

Ukraines a backwater.

If russia wants to fuck around in the FSU minus our guys?

Let them.

[Balkenreich]

For NATO? Yes. The Russian Army is far superior to anything the Europeans can throw at it, and does maintain some sizable advantages over the US (Namely, tank quality and ability to more rapidly bring their's into play).

This is also academic, however, because the Russians have no desire nor reason to invade Eastern Europe.

Oh no, NATO would wipe the Russian Army from the history books it would be so clean. The Russian military has been working nearly ten years just to keep their armed forces supplied, trained, following orders, not mutinying, and not selling off military items. Sort of the point of this.

The US in particular could take down Russia on its own, simply by aligning itself with the oligarchs and funding the opposition.

Ok, lets put in our...oh so powerful, oh so courageous allies, in western europe in a fight against a bunch of irate russians.

Whos gonna win?

The pampered Welfare queens or the fucking slav who probably has been eating turnips before he could fucking walk?

[Oil exporting People]

Oh no, NATO would wipe the Russian Army from the history books it would be so clean. The Russian military has been working nearly ten years just to keep their armed forces supplied, trained, following orders, not mutinying, and not selling off military items. Sort of the point of this.

They did reforms that made them more effective, as the invasions of Georgia and Crimea show. Not sure how that is supposed to help your point. Give this a read before posting again, and then mediate on this as well as this especially.

The US in particular could take down Russia on its own, simply by aligning itself with the oligarchs and funding the opposition.

Thus losing all moral superiority in such a conflict? This also ignores there is no viable opposition in Russia, as well as the fact the 2012 protests and the last three years of sanctions have failed to produce any results.

[Thermodolia]

Oh no, NATO would wipe the Russian Army from the history books it would be so clean. The Russian military has been working nearly ten years just to keep their armed forces supplied, trained, following orders, not mutinying, and not selling off military items. Sort of the point of this.

The US in particular could take down Russia on its own, simply by aligning itself with the oligarchs and funding the opposition.

I'd rather not try though. The Germans were completely optimistic in their regards for military success in 1941 but got completely smashed by a combination of Soviet ingenuity, weather and some trash German civilian leaders (Hitler in particular).

Ya that was mainly Hitler's doing. If i had been in his shoes i wouldn't have stopped until I reach Moskva

[Balkenreich]

I'd rather not try though. The Germans were completely optimistic in their regards for military success in 1941 but got completely smashed by a combination of Soviet ingenuity, weather and some trash German civilian leaders (Hitler in particular).

Ya that was mainly Hitler's doing. If i had been in his shoes i wouldn't have stopped until I reach Moskva

Welcome russia, mud in the warm months, fucking frozen to death in the winter.

[Thermodolia]

Oh no, NATO would wipe the Russian Army from the history books it would be so clean. The Russian military has been working nearly ten years just to keep their armed forces supplied, trained, following orders, not mutinying, and not selling off military items. Sort of the point of this.

The US in particular could take down Russia on its own, simply by aligning itself with the oligarchs and funding the opposition.

Ok, lets put in our...oh so powerful, oh so courageous allies, in western europe in a fight against a bunch of irate russians.

Whos gonna win?

The pampered Welfare queens or the fucking slav who probably has been eating turnips before he could fucking walk?

The French and the Polish can be quite powerful when they are pissed off. Remember during most of the Cold War France wasn't apart of NATO.

[Uxupox]

I'd rather not try though. The Germans were completely optimistic in their regards for military success in 1941 but got completely smashed by a combination of Soviet ingenuity, weather and some trash German civilian leaders (Hitler in particular).

Ya that was mainly Hitler's doing. If i had been in his shoes i wouldn't have stopped until I reach Moskva

As completely effective and amazing as the German army was I don't think it was possible for them to achieve success in their war against the Soviet Union and if they did have an actual chance at winning then yea Hitler fucked up it all up.

[Oil exporting People]

I'd rather not try though. The Germans were completely optimistic in their regards for military success in 1941 but got completely smashed by a combination of Soviet ingenuity, weather and some trash German civilian leaders (Hitler in particular).

It was actually just some really bad luck. 10th SS Das Reich division reached Borodino exactly one day after the Soviet 33rd Rifle Division took its position, made field works, and then basically ambushed the aforementioned Germans. Had the Germans been one day quicker, the last Soviet defenses before Moscow would've collapsed and they would have a solid paved road leading straight to Moscow to use.

[Balkenreich]

Ok, lets put in our...oh so powerful, oh so courageous allies, in western europe in a fight against a bunch of irate russians.

Whos gonna win?

The pampered Welfare queens or the fucking slav who probably has been eating turnips before he could fucking walk?

The French and the Polish can be quite powerful when they are pissed off. Remember during most of the Cold War France wasn't apart of NATO.

i said western Europe today. Poland and eastern Europe? Good guys, kept their shit in working fucking condition.

Western Europe i feel will be more of a liability. Might need some american boots in their asses for the 3rd time in a hundred years before they can get their shit unfucked.

[Uxupox]

The French and the Polish can be quite powerful when they are pissed off. Remember during most of the Cold War France wasn't apart of NATO.

i said western Europe today. Poland and eastern Europe? Good guys, kept their shit in working fucking condition.

Western Europe i feel will be more of a liability. Might need some american boots in their asses for the 3rd time in a hundred years before they can get their shit unfucked.

Third time is the charm right?

[Thermodolia]

The French and the Polish can be quite powerful when they are pissed off. Remember during most of the Cold War France wasn't apart of NATO.

i said western Europe today. Poland and eastern Europe? Good guys, kept their shit in working fucking condition.

Western Europe i feel will be more of a liability. Might need some american boots in their asses for the 3rd time in a hundred years before they can get their shit unfucked.

France can still hold there own or just nuke everything

[Balkenreich]

i said western Europe today. Poland and eastern Europe? Good guys, kept their shit in working fucking condition.

Western Europe i feel will be more of a liability. Might need some american boots in their asses for the 3rd time in a hundred years before they can get their shit unfucked.

Third time is the charm right?

Probably, maybe we can kick them in the ass so hard, they'll know how to be european again.

[Balkenreich]

i said western Europe today. Poland and eastern Europe? Good guys, kept their shit in working fucking condition.

Western Europe i feel will be more of a liability. Might need some american boots in their asses for the 3rd time in a hundred years before they can get their shit unfucked.

France can still hold there own or just nuke everything

Not if we park a carrier group in the english channel or the north sea.