Robert E. Lee Day

[Thermodolia]

But the former confederacy is today part of the US. They celebrate their holidays.


I doubt you even read what I said...

If there is to be a holiday for this man, it should not be on the same day as MLK. I think we all realize why they put it on this day, and such a thing should be condemned.

Florida celebrates Lee Day on his actual birthday January 19.

[The Princes of the Universe]

No one who fought for a state for which the sole, single, solitary, only purpose for its very existence was the perpetuation of slavery warrants any honour whatsoever. Damnatio memoriae would be a more fitting status.

[Empire of Cats]

Well, it's said that those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

So...maybe just a place in the history books? And leave it at that?

[The Princes of the Universe]

Well, it's said that those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
So...maybe just a place in the history books? And leave it at that?

Everyone should remember what they did and the real reason why, but their specific identities should fall lost to history. I can think of no more fitting fate for the likes of them.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Well, it's said that those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
So...maybe just a place in the history books? And leave it at that?

Everyone should remember what they did and the real reason why, but their specific identities should fall lost to history. I can think of no more fitting fate for the likes of them.

Stan can.

[Gettenfeld]

But he chose that. He was offered leadership in the Union Army and declined to fight for his state. It's well-documented that he didn't believe in any part of the CSA cause, but he was loyal to his state, which on it's own should be commended in some way.

^This. It's really unfortunate that history tends to paint all Confederates the same color (don't you dare). The war was fought for abhorrent reasons, but most Confederate soldiers were fighting for their homelands. Sherman's March to the Sea makes it kind of hard to fault that viewpoint, given most of them weren't even slaveholders.

And before anyone says "well they were still racist," the same was true of pretty much everyone in the North. They were anti actual slavery, but very much pro wage slavery (and blacks had it even worse than the Irish and Chinese).

We're not talking about "Most Confederates" here. We're talking about Slave-Owner Robert E. Lee who, as you might have guessed by now, owned slaves.

[Herskerstad]

One hell of a general and one hell of a personality. Had he accepted to lead the war on the union side then it would have been over in months.

[Oil exporting People]

He was a fervent Nazi ideologue, to the point that Hitler even considered him as a potential successor. He isn't the epitome of the apolitical German general, he wasn't even that good of one.

In his younger days? Yes, he was definitely one of Hitler's golden "children" but the situation by 1940 even had greatly changed from then and he was never considered a possible successor. In particular, his outright and public refusal of the commando order for just one example shows of his break with the Fuhrer as did his rather public disagreements with him concerning the course of the war in 1943 (While he was stationed in Italy). As far as his abilities, I would think his role in both France and North Africa very clearly refute such notions.

As an aside, I find your sig and its claim concerning the Red Army extremely funny in its inaccuracy.

[Mer Salcia]

I find it odd that a state would celebrate the birthday of one who waged war against it. You don't see birthday celebrations for George III, or Hitler, or Osama Bin Laden.

[Oil exporting People]

I find it odd that a state would celebrate the birthday of one who waged war against it. You don't see birthday celebrations for George III, or Hitler, or Osama Bin Laden.

None of them were Americans.

[Carena]

Kind of odd we have a holiday dedicated to a traitor if you ask me

[New Grestin]

He was an excellent general with the unfortunate luck of ending up on the wrong side of history.

We should remember what he did and why he did it, but we shouldn't have a day to celebrate a traitor to the Union.

[Galloism]

I find it odd that a state would celebrate the birthday of one who waged war against it. You don't see birthday celebrations for George III, or Hitler, or Osama Bin Laden.

None of them were Americans.

Benedict Arnold was American.

[Farnhamia]

He was an excellent general with the unfortunate luck of ending up on the wrong side of history.

We should remember what he did and why he did it, but we shouldn't have a day to celebrate a traitor to the Union.

I'm not sure he was that great a general, frankly. He had the good luck to spend the early part of the war fighting a collection of terrible Union generals. He was also lucky enough to have a number of quite brilliant subordinates. Without them, the ANV would probably have been beaten badly at Antietam. And yes, he shouldn't have a commemorative day.

[Oil exporting People]

Benedict Arnold was American.

That's utterly false. He wasn't a US citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, nor was he later naturalized as such.

[Oil exporting People]

I'm not sure he was that great a general, frankly. He had the good luck to spend the early part of the war fighting a collection of terrible Union generals. He was also lucky enough to have a number of quite brilliant subordinates. Without them, the ANV would probably have been beaten badly at Antietam. And yes, he shouldn't have a commemorative day.

Blaming terrible Federal generals seems a bit false compared to what Lee did in early 1863 and then later nearly accomplished at Mine Run. His command over the course of the 1864 Campaign (In particular, what he nearly did at the North Anne River) was also superb.

[New Grestin]

I'm not sure he was that great a general, frankly. He had the good luck to spend the early part of the war fighting a collection of terrible Union generals. He was also lucky enough to have a number of quite brilliant subordinates. Without them, the ANV would probably have been beaten badly at Antietam. And yes, he shouldn't have a commemorative day.

It's somewhat subjective, really. Some people might swear by Patton and forget that Zhukov made him look like a rookie Risk player.

People love to play favorites with historical generals, especially history nerds like myself, and Civil War-era generals tend to be favorites, especially among the "South's gon rise again" crowd.

[Galloism]

Benedict Arnold was American.

That's utterly false. He wasn't a US citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, nor was he later naturalized as such.

Would he not have been considered a citizen of Connecticut, given he was born there?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Benedict Arnold was American.

That's utterly false. He wasn't a US citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, nor was he later naturalized as such.

Talk about semantics.

[Oil exporting People]

It's somewhat subjective, really. Some people might swear by Patton and forget that Zhukov made him look like a rookie Risk player.

The same Zhukov that achieved 10 to one losses against the Germans during Operation Mars, for just one example? Zhukov was a competent general, but to suggest he was a strategic genius is rather lacking.

[Farnhamia]

I'm not sure he was that great a general, frankly. He had the good luck to spend the early part of the war fighting a collection of terrible Union generals. He was also lucky enough to have a number of quite brilliant subordinates. Without them, the ANV would probably have been beaten badly at Antietam. And yes, he shouldn't have a commemorative day.

It's somewhat subjective, really. Some people might swear by Patton and forget that Zhukov made him look like a rookie Risk player.

People love to play favorites with historical generals, especially history nerds like myself, and Civil War-era generals tend to be favorites, especially among the "South's gon rise again" crowd.

Of course it's subjective. It's my opinion and I have the advantage of being wrong only once every 150 years. The last time was on November 8th, so you'd better pay attention.

[New Grestin]

It's somewhat subjective, really. Some people might swear by Patton and forget that Zhukov made him look like a rookie Risk player.

The same Zhukov that achieved 10 to one losses against the Germans during Operation Mars, for just one example? Zhukov was a competent general, but to suggest he was a strategic genius is rather lacking.

To ensure that I don't accidentally threadjack, I'll refer back to my original statement. Playing favorites with historical generals is subjective, and your preferred ones are going to vary depending on your personal views.

My love of Soviet Generalship, for example, is almost entirely birthed from my fascination with the Communist states of the Era. Yours, will of course, vary wildly from mine.

[Oil exporting People]

Talk about semantics.

No, this is basic legality.

Would he not have been considered a citizen of Connecticut, given he was born there?

No, because you specifically said he was American, which he never was.

[Ethel mermania]

That's utterly false. He wasn't a US citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, nor was he later naturalized as such.

Would he not have been considered a citizen of Connecticut, given he was born there?

It's a trick question. Washington wasn't a US citizen till the constitution. Arnold went to England prior to the end of the war and died there.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Talk about semantics.

No, this is basic legality.

>Lived in a colony
>Fought for the United States
>American before it was cool
>Not American