Robert E. Lee Day

[USS Monitor]

The North doesn't give a shit. The 18th century ended a while ago, and apart from a few backwaters in northern New England we're ready to move on.

Nope, racism exists everywhere.

Where does my post say anything about racism?

[Need a Name]

Explains why my Mainer ass never heard of it.

Yep. Maine has better people you can celebrate when you're up for some Civil War history. I dunno where in Maine you are, but I think it's cool how Chamberlain is still a big local hero in Brunswick.

I live in Auburn so Chamberlain isn't huge but everyone knows how he and the 20th Maine saved the Union in the Battle of Gettysburg. At least, the ones that pay attention.

[Neutraligon]

Those could have been some of the reasons, I believe the cry was taxation without representation. so once again, what do base the claim on that it was just an excuse, and not just another part of the cause? Also, a raise in taxes when they have previously not really been taxed before
will still get people angry, even if the tax is small. You have not supported your claim.

This isn't a history class, i don't feel the need to provide citations for every historical fact that is commonly known.

So you do not actually have evidence, thank you for admitting this.

I had enough of that in College.
It's a very complicated theory that involves a lot of studying.

One you are apparently unable to provide evidence for

The fact of the matter is,

There is no matter of fact without providing evidence.

the founding fathers wouldn't have been actually interested in representation in the British parliament,

Sauce.

because they'd have been heavily outvoted by their non-American colleagues.They knew this, and it would have only increased not decreased the amount of taxes they owed to the British state.

Still waiting for the sauce.

[USS Monitor]

Regional rivalry is the only reason Lee is idolized to such an extent in the South. Otherwise, why not somebody like Eisenhower that is well-known and well-liked nationwide?

Because Eisenhower didn't serve in the confederate army?

Why does that matter unless it has to do with regional rivalry?

[Thermodolia]

Because it's celebrated in parts of the South that want to rise again, but can't get it up.

Most parts of the South tend to be heavily patriotic, with Southerners making up a sizeable portion serving in the US army. It's doubtful that many (if any) parts want to secede again. Else that would be eaten up by the mainstream media. More likely people just respect Lee because of his reputation as a good general and a Southern patriot (though whether he deserves that reputation is irrelevant to me - I don't think Rommel deserves his, generals tend to be talked up based on PR).

Most of the south doesn't celebrate Lee day. Only three states do: Mississippi, AL, and AR

[Salus Maior]

He was a decent general trained in the Napoleonic tactics of the day. Still fucked up a lot though, but given that he was a traitor first and foremost and fighting for a slaver state, he should get no holidays, monuments, or memorials.

I wouldn't go that far.

Considering the respect for him held by many Americans, North and South, I would say that a memorial is appropriate. So long as it's cleansed of Confederate sympathy.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Well this wasn't KKK, they were like, Silver Bullet Gang or something. I dunno, it's been years.

Bob Seger was there?

You know what that is where I got that, I was about to say. It was silver something though I think

[Salus Maior]

The taxes weren't the problem, it was the fact that the Americans had no say in the legislation.

The Colonies wanted to remain with Britain, but the British refused to give them representation in the government. This is made clear by the Olive Branch Petition.

It's more complicated than that.

Yes, but that was the main gripe.

[Internationalist Bastard]

He was a decent general trained in the Napoleonic tactics of the day. Still fucked up a lot though, but given that he was a traitor first and foremost and fighting for a slaver state, he should get no holidays, monuments, or memorials.

I wouldn't go that far.

Considering the respect for him held by many Americans, North and South, I would say that a memorial is appropriate. So long as it's cleansed of Confederate sympathy.

I have no problem paying tribute to a good military leader, one can always wash politics away from it

[Arlenton]

The US is no longer part of the UK. 11 states, along with some territories and border states , are still part of the US.

Correct, which is why there is no reason to have a holiday for someone attempting to leave the union.

But the former confederacy is today part of the US. They celebrate their holidays.


I doubt you even read what I said...

[Salus Maior]

There's a story there.

What other holidays do Nazi's enjoy celebrating? Never really thought about them having their own little culture.

the KKK celebrates pretty much every christian holiday

Ironic considering they burn our holiest symbol as a calling card.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Correct, which is why there is no reason to have a holiday for someone attempting to leave the union.

But the former confederacy is today part of the US. They celebrate their holidays.


I doubt you even read what I said...

But it's not just a Confederate holiday, it was done specifically to undermine MLK Day

[Salus Maior]

Correct, which is why there is no reason to have a holiday for someone attempting to leave the union.

But the former confederacy is today part of the US. They celebrate their holidays.


I doubt you even read what I said...

If there is to be a holiday for this man, it should not be on the same day as MLK. I think we all realize why they put it on this day, and such a thing should be condemned.

[USS Monitor]

Yep. Maine has better people you can celebrate when you're up for some Civil War history. I dunno where in Maine you are, but I think it's cool how Chamberlain is still a big local hero in Brunswick.

I live in Auburn so Chamberlain isn't huge but everyone knows how he and the 20th Maine saved the Union in the Battle of Gettysburg. At least, the ones that pay attention.

I am of the opinion that the Union would have won even if Gettysburg went differently, but I still have a great deal of respect for the 20th Maine. They were some of the most honorable, righteous, and courageous people of their day.

[Internationalist Bastard]

the KKK celebrates pretty much every christian holiday

Ironic considering they burn our holiest symbol as a calling card.

Nobody said terrorists make sense

[Need a Name]

the KKK celebrates pretty much every christian holiday

Ironic considering they burn our holiest symbol as a calling card.

I think us protestants need to band together for a day so we can excommunicate the KKK.

[Aryan Nation]

This isn't a history class, i don't feel the need to provide citations for every historical fact that is commonly known.

So you do not actually have evidence, thank you for admitting this.

I had enough of that in College.
It's a very complicated theory that involves a lot of studying.

One you are apparently unable to provide evidence for

The fact of the matter is,

There is no matter of fact without providing evidence.

the founding fathers wouldn't have been actually interested in representation in the British parliament,

Sauce.

because they'd have been heavily outvoted by their non-American colleagues.They knew this, and it would have only increased not decreased the amount of taxes they owed to the British state.

Still waiting for the sauce.

https://books.google.com/books?id=SQklAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=they+didn%27t+want+representation&source=bl&ots=I2_XiuiVZd&sig=li3JbSC8d3T05KHc3gqf2SQ4Sls&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiuxcOV2MfRAhVizVQKHayoDa8Q6AEIQTAG#v=onepage&q=they%20didn't%20want%20representation&f=false

They wanted their colonial legislatures consulted before taxes were levied, they didn't want equal representation.

[Salus Maior]

Ironic considering they burn our holiest symbol as a calling card.

I think us protestants need to band together for a day so we can excommunicate the KKK.

That'd be nice xP

[Cymrea]

But the former confederacy is today part of the US. They celebrate their holidays.


I doubt you even read what I said...

If there is to be a holiday for this man, it should not be on the same day as MLK. I think we all realize why they put it on this day, and such a thing should be condemned.

Robert E. Lee - and everyone else who has ever served in the American military, North or South - have Veterans Day and/or Memorial Day, as appropriate.

[Risottia]

How do you feel about the confederacy,

A banana republic, built on cotton and outright slavery instead of bananas and wage slavery.

about the 'civil rights' movement,

Much better than about the 'states' rights movement' .
Because people have rights, states don't.

and about the legacy of Robert E. Lee, the South's greatest General?

Largely insignificant, as for any other general leading an army that was utterly defeated.

[Gettenfeld]

Those could have been some of the reasons, I believe the cry was taxation without representation. so once again, what do base the claim on that it was just an excuse, and not just another part of the cause? Also, a raise in taxes when they have previously not really been taxed before
will still get people angry, even if the tax is small. You have not supported your claim.

This isn't a history class, i don't feel the need to provide citations for every historical fact that is commonly known. I had enough of that in College.
It's a very complicated theory that involves a lot of studying.

The fact of the matter is, the founding fathers wouldn't have been actually interested in representation in the British parliament, because they'd have been heavily outvoted by their non-American colleagues. They knew this, and it would have only increased not decreased the amount of taxes they owed to the British state.

Translation: "I don't have sources"

[Neutraligon]

Correct, which is why there is no reason to have a holiday for someone attempting to leave the union.

But the former confederacy is today part of the US. They celebrate their holidays.


I doubt you even read what I said...

I read it, I probably misinterpreted or you missed my point. There is no reason for the US to celebrate this person, as he was a traitor to the union, now the US. True those places are part of the US, but only because he failed. So again why should there be a holiday celebrating a man who attempted to split the union; who was a traitor to the union? This is not a US holiday, it is celebrated by a few states, and there is no reason for this holiday to exist.

[Aryan Nation]

whilst [the radical colonists] exclaim against Parliament for taxing them when they are not represented, they candidly declare they will not have representatives [in Parliament] lest they should be taxed...The truth...is that they are determined to get rid of the jurisdiction of Parliament...and they therefore refuse to send members to that assembly lest they should preclude themselves of [the] plea [that Parliament's] legislative acts...are done without their consent; which, it must be confessed, holds equally good against all laws, as against taxes...The colony advocates...tell us, that by refusing to accept our offer of representatives they...mean to avoid giving Parliament a pretence for taxing them.

-- William Knox

https://archive.org/stream/williamknoxo ... sentatives

[Neutraligon]

So you do not actually have evidence, thank you for admitting this. One you are apparently unable to provide evidence for

There is no matter of fact without providing evidence. Sauce.
Still waiting for the sauce.

https://books.google.com/books?id=SQklAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=they+didn%27t+want+representation&source=bl&ots=I2_XiuiVZd&sig=li3JbSC8d3T05KHc3gqf2SQ4Sls&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiuxcOV2MfRAhVizVQKHayoDa8Q6AEIQTAG#v=onepage&q=they%20didn't%20want%20representation&f=false

They wanted their colonial legislatures consulted before taxes were levied, they didn't want equal representation.

So again, they wanted representation. I not once said anything about equal representation, I said the call was against no taxation without representation. Thank you for supporting my claim and showing yours to be wrong.

[Internationalist Bastard]

whilst [the radical colonists] exclaim against Parliament for taxing them when they are not represented, they candidly declare they will not have representatives [in Parliament] lest they should be taxed...The truth...is that they are determined to get rid of the jurisdiction of Parliament...and they therefore refuse to send members to that assembly lest they should preclude themselves of [the] plea [that Parliament's] legislative acts...are done without their consent; which, it must be confessed, holds equally good against all laws, as against taxes...The colony advocates...tell us, that by refusing to accept our offer of representatives they...mean to avoid giving Parliament a pretence for taxing them.

-- William Knox

https://archive.org/stream/williamknoxo ... sentatives

You know, all of this would be a legitimate point if I did not view the American Patriots the same way I view the Cofederates