Trump MAGAThread III: Steak, Vodka, Casinos, and America

[Indo-European Union]

Marxist insanity. Britain had the most prosperous population and best sanitation of any country in history in that time. (which is not true today)

Ah, yes. Britain at the height of the Industrial Revolution. Where cholera took our children, and work took our old.

Again, Marxist insanity. Britain and capitalism didn't create cholera, but they did end it.

[Ifreann]

Ah, yes. Britain at the height of the Industrial Revolution. Where cholera took our children, and work took our old.

Again, Marxist insanity. Britain and capitalism didn't create cholera, but they did end it.

Cholera still exists.

[Indo-European Union]

Marxist insanity. Britain had the most prosperous population and best sanitation of any country in history in that time. (which is not true today)

It was the tea. Once everyone started drinking tea, which required boiling their water, they became much healthier.

Course, these days we have water treatment plants.

You know you can just boil plain water - or do you claim socialism invented fire? Leave it long enough, and I'm sure people will believe that.

Infectious disease was defeated partly by medical advances, but mostly by improved general production, that let people live further apart from one another, devote more labour to maintaining cleanliness, and dispose of waste far from where they lived.

[Lady Scylla]

Ah, yes. Britain at the height of the Industrial Revolution. Where cholera took our children, and work took our old.

Again, Marxist insanity. Britain and capitalism didn't create cholera, but they did end it.

...what

Do you know anything about the cholera epidemics of Britain? Do you know anything about Britain at all?

[Ifreann]

It was the tea. Once everyone started drinking tea, which required boiling their water, they became much healthier.

Course, these days we have water treatment plants.

You know you can just boil plain water - or do you claim socialism invented fire? Leave it long enough, and I'm sure people will believe that.

I'm not claiming anything about socialism. Just offering an explanation for why Britain was relatively healthy during the industrial revolution.

Infectious disease was defeated partly by medical advances, but mostly by improved general production, that let people live further apart from one another, devote more labour to maintaining cleanliness, and dispose of waste far from where they lived.

Infectious disease hasn't been defeated.

[Lady Scylla]

You know you can just boil plain water - or do you claim socialism invented fire? Leave it long enough, and I'm sure people will believe that.

I'm not claiming anything about socialism. Just offering an explanation for why Britain was relatively healthy during the industrial revolution.

Infectious disease was defeated partly by medical advances, but mostly by improved general production, that let people live further apart from one another, devote more labour to maintaining cleanliness, and dispose of waste far from where they lived.

Infectious disease hasn't been defeated.

He's under the impression that we're all Commies, Ifreann. The humanity!

[Alvecia]

This came up in the Unions thread, I'd like to clarify.
Is production the only, or most important, metric which you use to determine a society's success?

What other metric do you choose - scientific leadership, artistic accomplishment, social harmony? Of all those, production is perhaps the only one on which our current society can claim primary (of course, only due to greater technical knowledge, and imported processes). We've lost a lot more than just our economic leadership; probably more than people born today can ever truly comprehend.

I don't have one metric. That's narrow minded. I consider all things combined, civil liberties, economic health, all those things you mentioned are good as well.
If something slightly increases production but massively reduces civil liberties then I think that's a bad thing. The reverse is true.

[Indo-European Union]

You know you can just boil plain water - or do you claim socialism invented fire? Leave it long enough, and I'm sure people will believe that.

I'm not claiming anything about socialism. Just offering an explanation for why Britain was relatively healthy during the industrial revolution.

An "explanation" for which you present no data, and that two minutes' thought can show is obviously spurious, because you want to deny credit for any achievement to free market economies.

Infectious disease was defeated partly by medical advances, but mostly by improved general production, that let people live further apart from one another, devote more labour to maintaining cleanliness, and dispose of waste far from where they lived.

Infectious disease hasn't been defeated.

In the developed parts of the world, as good as.

[Ifreann]

I'm not claiming anything about socialism. Just offering an explanation for why Britain was relatively healthy during the industrial revolution.


Infectious disease hasn't been defeated.

He's under the impression that we're all Commies, Ifreann. The humanity!

When all you have is Joe McCarthy, every problem looks like a communist.

[Indo-European Union]

What other metric do you choose - scientific leadership, artistic accomplishment, social harmony? Of all those, production is perhaps the only one on which our current society can claim primary (of course, only due to greater technical knowledge, and imported processes). We've lost a lot more than just our economic leadership; probably more than people born today can ever truly comprehend.

I don't have one metric. That's narrow minded. I consider all things combined, civil liberties, economic health, all those things you mentioned are good as well.
If something slightly increases production but massively reduces civil liberties then I think that's a bad thing. The reverse is true.

The bureaucratic state has dramatically reduced liberty. The Englishman of 1800 could say and publish more than an Englishman can today. He could also buy a gun, or psychoactive drugs. He could start a business without a license and employ new processes without a license, and he could build a house on his own land without permission and to his own design; you cannot do those things.

[Lady Scylla]

I'm not claiming anything about socialism. Just offering an explanation for why Britain was relatively healthy during the industrial revolution.

An "explanation" for which you present no data, and that two minutes' thought can show is obviously spurious, because you want to deny credit for any achievement to free market economies.

Infectious disease hasn't been defeated.

In the developed parts of the world, as good as.

It's only fair you cite your stuff as well if you're going to accuse people. Pretty shitty, if you ask me.

[Community Values]

I wonder what Trump would have to do with the productiveness of industrial Britain.

How do you guys feel about Gorsuch? What even happens if the Democrats are able to deny Trump his candidate?

[Lady Scylla]

I wonder what Trump would have to do with the productiveness of industrial Britain.

How do you guys feel about Gorsuch? What even happens if the Democrats are able to deny Trump his candidate?

Then the seat just remains vacant.

[Alvecia]

I'm not claiming anything about socialism. Just offering an explanation for why Britain was relatively healthy during the industrial revolution.

An "explanation" for which you present no data, and that two minutes' thought can show is obviously spurious, because you want to deny credit for any achievement to free market economies.

Infectious disease hasn't been defeated.

In the developed parts of the world, as good as.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_in_th ... _and_later

Some scholars suggest that tea played a role in British Industrial Revolution. Afternoon tea possibly became a way to increase the number of hours labourers could work in factories; the stimulants in the tea, accompanied by sugary snacks would give workers energy to finish the day's work. Further, tea helped alleviate some of the consequences of the urbanization that accompanied the industrial revolution: drinking tea required boiling the water, thereby killing water-borne diseases like dysentery, cholera, and typhoid.[18]

[Community Values]

I wonder what Trump would have to do with the productiveness of industrial Britain.

How do you guys feel about Gorsuch? What even happens if the Democrats are able to deny Trump his candidate?

Then the seat just remains vacant.

At that point, couldn't Trump just offer up another nominee?

[Lady Scylla]

Then the seat just remains vacant.

At that point, couldn't Trump just offer up another nominee?

He could. And we'd go through the entire process again.

[Galloism]

Then the seat just remains vacant.

At that point, couldn't Trump just offer up another nominee?

As often as he wants.

[Betoni]

Did Great Britain have less regulation and bureaucracy than other nations at the time?

Yes.

Anything to back that up?

[Ifreann]

I'm not claiming anything about socialism. Just offering an explanation for why Britain was relatively healthy during the industrial revolution.

An "explanation" for which you present no data, and that two minutes' thought can show is obviously spurious, because you want to deny credit for any achievement to free market economies.

I saw it on QI, which, as any anglophile should know, is better than having data. And I posted it because I like sharing interesting facts I learn from QI.

Infectious disease hasn't been defeated.

In the developed parts of the world, as good as.

Not really.

---

I wonder what Trump would have to do with the productiveness of industrial Britain.

How do you guys feel about Gorsuch? What even happens if the Democrats are able to deny Trump his candidate?

Then the seat just remains vacant.

In theory you only really need one Supreme Court justice.

[Indo-European Union]

An "explanation" for which you present no data, and that two minutes' thought can show is obviously spurious, because you want to deny credit for any achievement to free market economies.


In the developed parts of the world, as good as.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_in_th ... _and_later

Some scholars suggest that tea played a role in British Industrial Revolution. Afternoon tea possibly became a way to increase the number of hours labourers could work in factories; the stimulants in the tea, accompanied by sugary snacks would give workers energy to finish the day's work. Further, tea helped alleviate some of the consequences of the urbanization that accompanied the industrial revolution: drinking tea required boiling the water, thereby killing water-borne diseases like dysentery, cholera, and typhoid.[18]

I said data, not the opinion of Some Scholars. Indeed, it's a widely believed fact that Some Scholars are completely clueless.

[Lady Scylla]

Yes.

Anything to back that up?

I feel like this'll go down as such: He'll cite some skewed and questionable study crocked up by some tinhat, and then reject every counter-point as being 'socialist' nonsense. Rinse. Repeat.

[Indo-European Union]

Yes.

Anything to back that up?

If you need to ask for that to be backed up, you have no business being involved in this discussion.

[Galloism]

Yes.

Anything to back that up?

I don't know about comparative, but I highly recommend Filthy Cities - London for a lot of very interesting information about why London was so filthy, and what had to be done about it.

Hint: The fix didn't have all that much to do with the free market

[Lady Scylla]

Anything to back that up?

If you need to ask for that to be backed up, you have no business being involved in this discussion.

Actually, it's been a common, and rather unspoken rule on NS for over a decade now. If you make claims, regardless of how 'apparent' you feel they are, you cite them with sources to reinforce your argument. If you can't do that, then your entire point is thereby dismissed by everyone as little more than someone's rambling opinion.

[Indo-European Union]

If you need to ask for that to be backed up, you have no business being involved in this discussion.

Actually, it's been a common, and rather unspoken rule on NS for over a decade now. If you make claims, regardless of how 'apparent' you feel they are, you cite them with sources to reinforce your argument. If you can't do that, then your entire point is thereby dismissed by everyone as little more than someone's rambling opinion.

No it isn't: for instance, I can't demand you cite the definition of the word "the" (and every word that makes up that discussion, iterated until you go insane!) and then dismiss everything you say if you don't.

Betoni may well (and likely does) know nothing at all about British history. If that is so, he may not accept any of my claims. But if that is so, I simply don't care to discuss the matter with him, just as I don't care to discuss group theory with someone who has to ask what an integer is.