Oscars

[Gauthier]

Greatest missed opportunity

Watching Kathryn Bigelow collect not only the best director but also best picture Oscar, shaking ever more by the second, was a powerful experience. If she'd actually shouted "Who's king of the world NOW, bitch!?" it would have been completely brilliant.

Best summation really,

Heh, that would be something. Turning an awards show into an A-List Springer episode.

[Cannot think of a name]

one-liner rants

I love how I can make a snap remark about why I personally didn't like a movie, and within two pages it turns into a(nother) yammering, line-by-line summary about why Melkor is Wrong About Everything. You've resorted to reshaping my remarks into wild fantasies about "industry proclivities" and "hive minds," and have decided that my saying I didn't care for the film because of what I saw as an overdone message is tantamount to saying that the message was the only reason the film was made. It's not, and I never said it was. Again, the message isn't the (only) reason the film was made, it was one of the reasons I didn't like it. Get that through your head please.

When it's "What Hollywood doesn't need" it isn't about you anymore. When you start talking about the motivations of the producers and distributors, it isn't about you anymore. Pro Tip: When you want it to be about your opinion of the movie, don't project that onto the entire industry. If you don't want to be challenged on things, don't post in a public forum.

For. The. Fourth. Time.

That comment was not made to cite the fact that D9 was only made for its message. That comment was made as a partial exposition about why I did not care for the film. I've seen a lot of "racism is bad" movies, but all of them pale in comparison to American History X and Little Big Man.

Here's a simple comparison, maybe copy and paste it, we can make a workbook for you that can help you understand the difference.
Personal:
I didn't like it. It just had a story that I didn't feel like I needed to see again.

Perfectly reasonable, about you as you now pretend this was all about. An opinion that can be disagreed with but ultimately personal.

Not Personal:
Something Hollywood doesn't need. [insert further posts about the motives of 'the industry' 'producers' whoever else you can throw in the mix.

Not about you. About 'Hollywood', 'the industry' 'producers' etc. Arguable. Not founded in your own personal tastes.

Again, if you're having difficulty learning the difference we can make a workbook for you.

Sorry. Gave you too much credit for awareness of the things you want to comment on. I won't make that mistake again.

Nice bait, but all I said was that I didn't care for the film, that it didn't deserve best picture, and had a theme/message that was boring to me. I shouldn't be expected to be intimately aware of how/where a movie was made to form an opinion of it. That it took place in SA and had actors I hadn't seen before does not conjure some mystical inference about the production team and where they sleep at night.

There's no mysticism in it. That you think it would be needed...

Laughably naive. One only has to look at the reaction of some people to our black president. Not to mention that race is more than just 'black and white.'

Here we go with this again. I'll not turn this into another Obama thread, but for fuck's sake, people rag on politicians for @@attribute@@ all the time. That it happens (for fewer people than you probably think, but that's for another thread) to be race in some cases is not something I'm prepared to start frothing at the mouth over. For all the talk of progress and change, you sure seem more interested in why people don't like Obama rather than actually getting shit done. You're not going to win the racists over, and their influence has been waning for some time. Just let them die. Paying this much attention to them and their ideas is only empowering them. Move on.

Ah right. Ignore them and they'll go away. I'd rise to the pigeon-holing and grant you your unending desire to turn everything into a 'left/right' political argument if racist reaction to Obama was the only indicator that racism is alive and well today, but it's not. It is still laughable (and predictable) that people think that the election of a black president "magiced" away racism. It was your example and it was demonstrably flawed, so I remarked on it. But for the record, you're the one who brought up Obama, champ.

[Czardas]

I'm surprised so many people are surprised D9 was snubbed. I mean, the visual effects were kind of cool I guess, but the writing was horribly, horribly lazy. When you have to use 'fuck' every other word for half the damn movie, you know somebody's just not up to snuff.

What writing?

District 9 was almost entirely improvised. Director Neill Blomkamp had specific ideas for each scene, and directed the actors with timing cues for when and where certain actions were to take place, but the actual dialogue and performance for the scene was entirely improvised. They would do several takes, usually without the cameras rolling and often with several different variations on the scene, until Neill and the rest of the cast decided that they had a good approach to how the scene should specifically play out; they would then film it with that direction in mind. Neill and the rest of the actors commented in the DVD extras that Sharlito Copely was the undisputed master of this trope.

[Wanderjar]

Wow, they really loved The Hurt Locker.

It was an amazing movie dude.

[Flameswroth]

I'm surprised so many people are surprised D9 was snubbed. I mean, the visual effects were kind of cool I guess, but the writing was horribly, horribly lazy. When you have to use 'fuck' every other word for half the damn movie, you know somebody's just not up to snuff.

What writing?

District 9 was almost entirely improvised. Director Neill Blomkamp had specific ideas for each scene, and directed the actors with timing cues for when and where certain actions were to take place, but the actual dialogue and performance for the scene was entirely improvised. They would do several takes, usually without the cameras rolling and often with several different variations on the scene, until Neill and the rest of the cast decided that they had a good approach to how the scene should specifically play out; they would then film it with that direction in mind. Neill and the rest of the actors commented in the DVD extras that Sharlito Copely was the undisputed master of this trope.

The heavens open, and all of a sudden everything makes far, far more sense.

[Pope Joan]

The Academy these days seems like an in-crowd where people talk to each other and ignore outsiders.

Such as, you know, those of us who buy the tickets.

[Melkor Unchained]

Here's a simple comparison, maybe copy and paste it, we can make a workbook for you that can help you understand the difference.
Personal:
I didn't like it. It just had a story that I didn't feel like I needed to see again.

Perfectly reasonable, about you as you now pretend this was all about. An opinion that can be disagreed with but ultimately personal.

Not Personal:
Something Hollywood doesn't need. [insert further posts about the motives of 'the industry' 'producers' whoever else you can throw in the mix.

Not about you. About 'Hollywood', 'the industry' 'producers' etc. Arguable. Not founded in your own personal tastes.

Again, if you're having difficulty learning the difference we can make a workbook for you.

Can you write one single post that isn't loaded with bullshit bait like this? As an intellectual experiment, if nothing else.

At any rate, you'll notice I edited that post some time ago. "Hollywood/film industry/we;" whatever the precise wording is, the spirit of my statement is clear: that D9 conveyed an old and common message. I'm sorry it wasn't precise enough for your tastes, but none of your self-righteous prattle really changes my opinion of the film. Your haste to get defensive about "Hollywood," even after I changed it and clarified my meaning several times is not my concern.

There's no mysticism in it. That you think it would be needed...

I didn't know it was made in SA. Sue me.

Ah right. Ignore them and they'll go away.

No, ignore them because they have gone away. I've cited some cultural trends and suggested that the influence of racism has been declining apace for more than a century now. If you'd like to make the case that this is incorrect, feel free to provide some evidence.

I'd rise to the pigeon-holing and grant you your unending desire to turn everything into a 'left/right' political argument if racist reaction to Obama was the only indicator that racism is alive and well today, but it's not. It is still laughable (and predictable) that people think that the election of a black president "magiced" away racism. It was your example and it was demonstrably flawed, so I remarked on it. But for the record, you're the one who brought up Obama, champ.

I brought up that we elected a black president last year as a partial indication that race relations are improving at what seems to be a satisfactory rate; I don't see what's wrong with that. I don't mean to turn this into another Obama thread, but it bears pointing out in this context. Racism wasn't "magiced" away, it's deteriorating as a result of social and political changes. If you think this isn't true, feel free to make your case. So far all you've done (here and in the other thread) is say "nuh uh, you're just naive" or whatever.

[North Suran]

I actually appreciated The Blind Side because it managed to deal with racial issues without beating me over the head with them; an experience I didn't share with District 9.

Ah yes, The Blind Side and its wonderful message: black people just need to be ordered about by white people if they want to get out of the ghetto.

[Melkor Unchained]

I actually appreciated The Blind Side because it managed to deal with racial issues without beating me over the head with them; an experience I didn't share with District 9.

Ah yes, The Blind Side and its wonderful message: black people just need to be ordered about by white people if they want to get out of the ghetto.

That's what you got out of that movie? Really?

[Sel Appa]

I was wondering where the Oscar thread was.

For the first time in my life, I actually paid attention and watched some of the Oscars. And I am extremely disappointed. It is quite clear that the awards are heavily rigged.

I have never even heard of the Hurt Locker before a few days ago, yet it won the most awards?

District 9, one of the best, if not the best film last year, won absolutely nothing. Inglourious Basterds also got a lot less than it deserved.

The only positive thing is that Avatar did not win the most awards, although it still did not deserve getting three.

[Takaram]

The only positive thing is that Avatar did not win the most awards, although it still did not deserve getting three.

I dunno, I'd say that Avatar got what it deserved. It wasn't a great plot, but the technology that went into making the movie was pretty amazing, and pretty much saved the movie.

[Grandais]

Aw come on, am I the only District 9 fan in here? Yeah, the message was really anvilicious, but it can be forgiven for how great the rest of the movie is (except for when it devolves into Generic Action Scifi #9001, although even that was done well). I really enjoyed it, better than Avatar, actually. I'm quite glad Avatar didn't win best picture but I would have liked it if D9 or Up did.

[Gauthier]

Aw come on, am I the only District 9 fan in here? Yeah, the message was really anvilicious, but it can be forgiven for how great the rest of the movie is (except for when it devolves into Generic Action Scifi #9001, although even that was done well). I really enjoyed it, better than Avatar, actually. I'm quite glad Avatar didn't win best picture but I would have liked it if D9 or Up did.

The Academy Awards are basically an Old Boys Network. District 9 joins Hoop Dreams amongst the collection of outstanding independent films that were completely snubbed at the Oscars. The only time an independent film has a shot at an award is if one of the establishment members takes a fond liking to it and pushes it mainstream.

[Cannot think of a name]

Here's a simple comparison, maybe copy and paste it, we can make a workbook for you that can help you understand the difference.
Personal:
I didn't like it. It just had a story that I didn't feel like I needed to see again.

Perfectly reasonable, about you as you now pretend this was all about. An opinion that can be disagreed with but ultimately personal.

Not Personal:
Something Hollywood doesn't need. [insert further posts about the motives of 'the industry' 'producers' whoever else you can throw in the mix.

Not about you. About 'Hollywood', 'the industry' 'producers' etc. Arguable. Not founded in your own personal tastes.

Again, if you're having difficulty learning the difference we can make a workbook for you.

Can you write one single post that isn't loaded with bullshit bait like this? As an intellectual experiment, if nothing else.

Tell you what, you stop posting condescending nonsense and baity crap yourself, and I'll see if I can meet you half way.

At any rate, you'll notice I edited that post some time ago. "Hollywood/film industry/we;" whatever the precise wording is, the spirit of my statement is clear: that D9 conveyed an old and common message. I'm sorry it wasn't precise enough for your tastes, but none of your self-righteous prattle really changes my opinion of the film. Your haste to get defensive about "Hollywood," even after I changed it and clarified my meaning several times is not my concern.

"I changed it already!"...seriously...if you're having a hard time being clear, take the time and organize your thoughts before hitting submit. Do not project your shortcomings on others.

There's no mysticism in it. That you think it would be needed...

I didn't know it was made in SA. Sue me.

It's fine to not know the country of origin of a movie. However, if you're going to comment on it and include comments about those who make it, then if you're going to make a glaring mistake about said people, you're going to get called on it. If this pains you, take the half a second to look shit up before you do it.

Ah right. Ignore them and they'll go away.

No, ignore them because they have gone away. I've cited some cultural trends and suggested that the influence of racism has been declining apace for more than a century now. If you'd like to make the case that this is incorrect, feel free to provide some evidence.

Really? I need to prove the existence of racism? Should I show you a blue sky as well?

I'd rise to the pigeon-holing and grant you your unending desire to turn everything into a 'left/right' political argument if racist reaction to Obama was the only indicator that racism is alive and well today, but it's not. It is still laughable (and predictable) that people think that the election of a black president "magiced" away racism. It was your example and it was demonstrably flawed, so I remarked on it. But for the record, you're the one who brought up Obama, champ.

I brought up that we elected a black president last year as a partial indication that race relations are improving at what seems to be a satisfactory rate; I don't see what's wrong with that. I don't mean to turn this into another Obama thread, but it bears pointing out in this context. Racism wasn't "magiced" away, it's deteriorating as a result of social and political changes. If you think this isn't true, feel free to make your case. So far all you've done (here and in the other thread) is say "nuh uh, you're just naive" or whatever.

Racism isn't as prominent as during segregation so it's all okay now and we don't need to talk about it ever ever ever. Never mind that three of the nominated films this year were White Man's Burden stories, no need to discuss racism...gotcha.

[Sdaeriji]

I didn't watch the Oscars or anything (rarely do) but I'm puzzled about this talk that District 9 got shafted or what-not. I mean, I liked the way it was presented, but it really wasn't that great of a movie. Plot-wise it's mediocre at best: segregation is bad, and the guy in charge (who may not deserve it) gets turned into what he/they ostensibly hate the most. It never explains why the aliens were incapacitated in their ship but fine on the surface (although it hints at some sort of disease, IIRC), and it never explains why we don't hear Word One from the UN or any national government. And yeah, they're careful to have some black people say negative things about the aliens, but it struck me as a not-so-subtle commentary about race; another one of which I'm not sure we really need at this point.

I did have a giggle at the big climactic fight scene, where they put a sniper like 25 yards away from a raging mecha.

Right, because when has sci-fi ever used allegory to discuss modern day issues?

[Grandais]

Aw come on, am I the only District 9 fan in here? Yeah, the message was really anvilicious, but it can be forgiven for how great the rest of the movie is (except for when it devolves into Generic Action Scifi #9001, although even that was done well). I really enjoyed it, better than Avatar, actually. I'm quite glad Avatar didn't win best picture but I would have liked it if D9 or Up did.

The Academy Awards are basically an Old Boys Network. District 9 joins Hoop Dreams amongst the collection of outstanding independent films that were completely snubbed at the Oscars. The only time an independent film has a shot at an award is if one of the establishment members takes a fond liking to it and pushes it mainstream.

This is also kind of the same with animated films. Since Beauty and the Beast won Best Picture they've been shafted into the 'Best Animated Film' category to ensure that it wouldn't happen again. Even though Up was nominated for Best Picture this time, it had no chance of winning.
If WALL-E had been nominated for Best Picture last year, THAT would have been interesting.

[Sdaeriji]

Aw come on, am I the only District 9 fan in here? Yeah, the message was really anvilicious, but it can be forgiven for how great the rest of the movie is (except for when it devolves into Generic Action Scifi #9001, although even that was done well). I really enjoyed it, better than Avatar, actually. I'm quite glad Avatar didn't win best picture but I would have liked it if D9 or Up did.

The Academy Awards are basically an Old Boys Network. District 9 joins Hoop Dreams amongst the collection of outstanding independent films that were completely snubbed at the Oscars. The only time an independent film has a shot at an award is if one of the establishment members takes a fond liking to it and pushes it mainstream.

This is also kind of the same with animated films. Since Beauty and the Beast won Best Picture they've been shafted into the 'Best Animated Film' category to ensure that it wouldn't happen again. Even though Up was nominated for Best Picture this time, it had no chance of winning.
If WALL-E had been nominated for Best Picture last year, THAT would have been interesting.

That WALL-E wasn't nominated for Best Picture last year is one of the main reasons the field was increased to 10 this year.

[NotnotgnimmiJymmiJ]

Right, because when has sci-fi ever used allegory to discuss modern day issues?

Yeah, Melkor's critique is pretty weak. I liked that District 9 was sci-fi in the very traditional sense, and not simply a space opera, even though it had elements of that as well.

[Melkor Unchained]

Tell you what, you stop posting condescending nonsense and baity crap yourself, and I'll see if I can meet you half way.

I'll believe that when I see it. I wasn't the one who fired the first shot here, buddy.

"I changed it already!"...seriously...if you're having a hard time being clear, take the time and organize your thoughts before hitting submit. Do not project your shortcomings on others.

I uh... actually changed it a while ago. I was a little imprecise with my wording and I moved to correct that shortcoming (and clarify what I actually meant by it) almost immediately. Not to be deterred by this, you have continued baiting. Please knock it off.

It's fine to not know the country of origin of a movie. However, if you're going to comment on it and include comments about those who make it, then if you're going to make a glaring mistake about said people, you're going to get called on it. If this pains you, take the half a second to look shit up before you do it.

How many times do I need to explain that I wasn't making comments about who made it? All I was saying was that "racism is bad" is a common and (IMO) overdone theme, and that D9's message wasn't overly profound or stirring in that context. Again, I've corrected myself and have more precisely explained my remarks, since they seem to have caused some consternation. It was never my intention to "pigeonhole" a "hivemind" or harp on "industry proclivities." You ran away with that bullshit, not me. I've been trying to point out for four or five posts now that my remarks had more to do with why I didn't like it than why the movie was made.

Really? I need to prove the existence of racism? Should I show you a blue sky as well?

Please pay attention to the words I'm writing. I never said racism doesn't exist, I said that its influence over society has been declining apace for over a century.

Racism isn't as prominent as during segregation so it's all okay now and we don't need to talk about it ever ever ever. Never mind that three of the nominated films this year were White Man's Burden stories, no need to discuss racism...gotcha.

Again, I never said it should never be a topic of discussion, just that it has been covered pretty thoroughly by the movie industry. People can talk about it all they like, just don't expect me to get misty-eyed over movies that say "racism is bad." I already know that.

Right, because when has sci-fi ever used allegory to discuss modern day issues?

Yeah, Melkor's critique is pretty weak. I liked that District 9 was sci-fi in the very traditional sense, and not simply a space opera, even though it had elements of that as well.

@Sdaeriji: I don't recall criticizing D9 for its use of allegory... care to refresh my memory?

@NotnotgnimmiJymmiJ: I actually quite enjoyed the presentation and direction of District 9, I just felt it was a little heavy-handed overall. The screenplay was decent, but it had plot holes you could drive a bus through and (as we've already been over at length) its message didn't strike me as particularly profound. That's not to say a movie has to have a profound message to be a good one, but like I said, I felt as if District 9 beat me over the head with its message. If you disagree that's all well and good; I'm just relating my reaction to the film.

[The Christian Reich]

The Hurt Locker was a relatively creative movie. More creative than Avatar's storyline and way of narrating things.

I don't think it's hard to have a more creative storyline than Avatar considering it was a rip off of Pochahontas.

Slight Correction: Avatar is a rip-off of FernGully: The Last Rainforest. (read the plot of FernGully and it is almost the exact same as Avatar!)

I remember Ferngully, watched when I was little. Avatar should be called
Dances with Smurfs: The last rainforest of smurfs.
Btw that South Park reference I thought I was original in the makeing of that joke...

[Cannot think of a name]

Tell you what, you stop posting condescending nonsense and baity crap yourself, and I'll see if I can meet you half way.

I'll believe that when I see it. I wasn't the one who fired the first shot here, buddy.

"I changed it already!"...seriously...if you're having a hard time being clear, take the time and organize your thoughts before hitting submit. Do not project your shortcomings on others.

I uh... actually changed it a while ago. I was a little imprecise with my wording and I moved to correct that shortcoming (and clarify what I actually meant by it) almost immediately. Not to be deterred by this, you have continued baiting. Please knock it off.

tl;dr: Get a hobby.

Yeah, you're a saint. I can't imagine why you manage to garner so much animosity.

I'm sorry I don't keep up with your constant revisions, and since your clarifications further delved into the motives of 'the industry' and its leanings, I had no reason to believe, until you revised again, that you had now decided that it was just a personal choice and not a treatise on the film industry itself, except that you still seem to think the industry has nothing more to say on the subject, a slight tack off your original statement...but why revisit that, surely it'll be changed to fit whatever you want the argument to be now.

[Melkor Unchained]

I'm sorry I don't keep up with your constant revisions..

I made one. Your inability to detect, or "keep up" with it is your shortcoming, not mine. As soon as my error was exposed, I amended it. I'm sorry if my wording carried a message I did not intend, but we're well past that by now.

[North Suran]

I actually appreciated The Blind Side because it managed to deal with racial issues without beating me over the head with them; an experience I didn't share with District 9.

Ah yes, The Blind Side and its wonderful message: black people just need to be ordered about by white people if they want to get out of the ghetto.

That's what you got out of that movie? Really?

The black character - ostensibly the protagonist - probably had the fewest lines in the whole damn film.

Instead, it became an Oscar-bait vehicle for Sandra Bullock to do her "Strong Southerrrrrrn Belle" impersonation and spout off such narmy lines as (in response to "You're really changing that boy's life") "No...he's changin' mine". Oh, and of course, the fact that Oher stumbles around stupidly on the football field until Ol' Ma Sandra pulls him aside and explains to him that his team is "his family" and he has to "protect his family". Now, that isn't condescending...

So yeah, a film about racism which portrays the main black character as a combination of the Magic Negro and the Gentle Giant, with his white adopted mother getting most of the lines and screentime. Right.

[Melkor Unchained]

I actually appreciated The Blind Side because it managed to deal with racial issues without beating me over the head with them; an experience I didn't share with District 9.

Ah yes, The Blind Side and its wonderful message: black people just need to be ordered about by white people if they want to get out of the ghetto.

That's what you got out of that movie? Really?

The black character - ostensibly the protagonist - probably had the fewest lines in the whole damn film.

Instead, it became an Oscar-bait vehicle for Sandra Bullock to do her "Strong Southerrrrrrn Belle" impersonation and spout off such narmy lines as (in response to "You're really changing that boy's life") "No...he's changin' mine". Oh, and of course, the fact that Oher stumbles around stupidly on the football field until Ol' Ma Sandra pulls him aside and explains to him that his team is "his family" and he has to "protect his family". Now, that isn't condescending...

So yeah, a film about racism which portrays the main black character as a combination of the Magic Negro and the Gentle Giant, with his white adopted mother getting most of the lines and screentime. Right.

I wonder if anyone bothered to ask Oher himself if he was offended by this characterization?

Methinks someone is struggling to find a racist message where one doesn't actually exist. I don't really see how he was "ordered about" in any serious way. I mean yeah, he was coached, but athletes generally are.

[North Suran]

I actually appreciated The Blind Side because it managed to deal with racial issues without beating me over the head with them; an experience I didn't share with District 9.

Ah yes, The Blind Side and its wonderful message: black people just need to be ordered about by white people if they want to get out of the ghetto.

That's what you got out of that movie? Really?

The black character - ostensibly the protagonist - probably had the fewest lines in the whole damn film.

Instead, it became an Oscar-bait vehicle for Sandra Bullock to do her "Strong Southerrrrrrn Belle" impersonation and spout off such narmy lines as (in response to "You're really changing that boy's life") "No...he's changin' mine". Oh, and of course, the fact that Oher stumbles around stupidly on the football field until Ol' Ma Sandra pulls him aside and explains to him that his team is "his family" and he has to "protect his family". Now, that isn't condescending...

So yeah, a film about racism which portrays the main black character as a combination of the Magic Negro and the Gentle Giant, with his white adopted mother getting most of the lines and screentime. Right.

I wonder if anyone bothered to ask Oher himself if he was offended by this characterization?

I'm pretty sure he's too busy counting his money to care.

Methinks someone is struggling to find a racist message where one doesn't actually exist.

Methinks someone is struggling to defend white self-indulgence fluff on the tenuous basis that because the main character - and practically superflous throughout the course of the film, with Sandra "Oscar plz" Bullock hauling most of the screentime - is black, it cannot possibly be racist.

I don't really see how he was "ordered about" in any serious way. I mean yeah, he was coached, but athletes generally are.

Do most athletes need to be told that their team is their family and they must defend their family before they are able to do well on the football field?

That is outright condescension. According to The Blind Side, black people come only in three varieties; neglectful parents, street gangsters and dumb giants. But thank God for the white middle-class, ever eager to lend a helping hand to those silly negroes! Why, if it wasn't for us, they'd still be living in caves.