Paid Maternity Leave: Yes or No?

[Genivaria]

AND each company loses a valuable worker for only half the time, which means less that the parent needs to catch up on.

Yep. Also, parents would not be as scared to have MORE kids, because now they can each actually be with them for a long time.

Do you know one of the big reasons I'm scared of having kids?
Because my mother worked her ass of 6 days a week by herself after the divorce trying to put a roof over the heads of my sister and I.
When she was home most of the time she was asleep trying to recover.

[Genivaria]

Any proof for that? No? Probably because there isn't, since the USA is the only relevant contry on the planet that doesn't have paid maternity leave. Next you'll be telling me the food service industry can't afford to pay their servers minimum wage.

Yeaaah, the whole "Europe does it!" cliche doesn't usually work when talking with Americans about America.

Only because some people have unwavering faith in the way things are with no justification.

"Yeah USA we're number 1!"
"In number of citizens incarcerated sure, but nothing else."

But actually doing research is hard I guess.

[Dooom35796821595]

Any proof for that? No? Probably because there isn't, since the USA is the only relevant contry on the planet that doesn't have paid maternity leave. Next you'll be telling me the food service industry can't afford to pay their servers minimum wage.

Yeaaah, the whole "Europe does it!" cliche doesn't usually work when talking with Americans about America.

Not just Europe, the whole planet baring a handful of countries including the US.

[Seangoli]

There absolutely should be paid parental leave for both parents. The exact amount of which isn't here nor there.

Equally, employees should be protected for a period of time from losing their jobs for parental leave. Not necessarily paid by the company itself, but certainly the employees should be protected if they choose to spend time with their new families, raising the next generation of citizens and such.

Honestly, there is a culture in the United States that work is the be-all end-all of life. This needs to just end. People shouldn't need to work themselves to death just to get by, and I find it baffling for the conservatives to spout on and on about "family values" only to curb everything and anything involving strengthening these values. If they believe in it so much, they should put their money where their mouth is if you will.

[Luminesa]

Yep. Also, parents would not be as scared to have MORE kids, because now they can each actually be with them for a long time.

Do you know one of the big reasons I'm scared of having kids?
Because my mother worked her ass of 6 days a week by herself after the divorce trying to put a roof over the heads of my sister and I.
When she was home most of the time she was asleep trying to recover.

And this is why paid maternity leave would help SO MUCH.

Also, I am sorry for your mom. Though she sounds like she's quite the strong lady.

[Galloism]

Do you know one of the big reasons I'm scared of having kids?
Because my mother worked her ass of 6 days a week by herself after the divorce trying to put a roof over the heads of my sister and I.
When she was home most of the time she was asleep trying to recover.

And this is why paid maternity leave would help SO MUCH.

Also, I am sorry for your mom. Though she sounds like she's quite the strong lady.

I watched my brother pull that with two kids - worked 3 jobs, came home, cleaned out, cooked, and slept.

Never slept more than about 2-3 hours at a time, maybe 3 times every two days.

For years.

Needless to say, I've never had kids either.

[Genivaria]

And this is why paid maternity leave would help SO MUCH.

Also, I am sorry for your mom. Though she sounds like she's quite the strong lady.

I watched my brother pull that with two kids - worked 3 jobs, came home, cleaned out, cooked, and slept.

Never slept more than about 2-3 hours at a time, maybe 3 times every two days.

For years.

Needless to say, I've never had kids either.

How could we? Parenthood seems like a 1 way trip into poverty to me.

[Crylante]

Both parents should have ~6 months leave, as it's very hard to work while you've got a young child to look after.

[Great Minarchistan]

Every other civilized first world country? Europe is bankrupt, just see their debt levels. Welfare is ruining almost every economy in world because instead of accumulate capital they simply borrow money as if there was no tomorrow.

The Euro area debt is lower than ours, and decreasing. Ours is increasing.

It's really not hard to research this stuff.

The debt is high, but it always is after a recession. It's falling, though.

Decreasing? You mean, it just hit an all-time high and decreased 2%. And last Eurozone recession was in 2008-2009 (2012-2013 has been almost a stagnation). It has been 8 years already and debt jumped from 68.5% to 90% today. If you step back to when Eurozone adopted welfare state in most countries (by 1990s), debt was zoning by 60%, against 90% of today. And US has also been on a welfare state (smaller than European one). That, coupled with GWOT and ARRA spending, helped to raise American debt.

PS.: High debt after a recession only happens if the government spends money to "stimulate" the economy. FDR did that and debt reached the 100%s mark by the end of WW2.

[The United Neptumousian Empire]

anyone who says no belongs in a cell

burn capitalism to the ground

[Galloism]

The Euro area debt is lower than ours, and decreasing. Ours is increasing.

It's really not hard to research this stuff.

The debt is high, but it always is after a recession. It's falling, though.

Decreasing? You mean, it just hit an all-time high and decreased 2%. And last Eurozone recession was in 2008-2009 (2012-2013 has been almost a stagnation).

Yes, the recovery has been less than ideal, but if one looks at the graph, the debt was just fine until 2008, then started shooting up.

The problem isn't the family leave - it's that the economy never truly got back to "normal".

It has been 8 years already and debt jumped from 68.5% to 90% today. If you step back to when Eurozone adopted welfare state in most countries (by 1990s), debt was zoning by 60%, against 90% of today. And US has also been on a welfare state (smaller than European one). That, coupled with GWOT and ARRA spending, helped to raise American debt.

If the US has a smaller welfare state (it does), and welfare states cause unsustainable debt, why is the US debt worse than the eurozone debt?

PS.: High debt after a recession only happens if the government spends money to "stimulate" the economy. FDR did that and debt reached the 100%s mark by the end of WW2.

Yes, and then we used those profits from the economy moving again to pay it down.

[Great Minarchistan]

anyone who says no belongs in a cell

burn capitalism to the ground

Tell us more about how will you get enough funding to sustain a 6-9 month maternity leave.

[Galloism]

anyone who says no belongs in a cell

burn capitalism to the ground

Tell us more about how will you get enough funding to sustain a 6-9 month maternity leave.

California does 6 weeks with a nearly insignificant payroll tax.

[The Realm of Lordaeron]

The best option would be to provide 30 days paid maternity leave to both the woman and her partner. All expenses should be tax-deductible by the business.

This should only apply to businesses with in excess of 15 employees.

[Aclion]

If yes then if should be paid for by the state not the employer.

Though keep in mind maternity leave is a contributor to the gender gap, and adding paternal leave just makes it even worse. So you'll have to chose between maternity leave and gender pay equality.

[Uxupox]

As long as it is paid by the state. Then sure.

[Genivaria]

As long as it is paid by the state. Then sure.

Most companies can afford it, the ones who can't can get a tax break.

[Great Nepal]

Hmm I'm not sure tbh - on one hand parental leave makes absolute sense from perspective from child rearing as they need time to take care of newborn and stuff but on the other hand having child is voluntary personal decision and government subsidizing that isn't really ideal... not really sure of the ideal solution but perhaps some sort of carers allowance for people voluntarily caring for newborn - essentially allowing the primary caregiver to make it their full time role (essentially extending Carer's Allowance)?

[Uxupox]

As long as it is paid by the state. Then sure.

Most companies can afford it, the ones who can't can get a tax break.

Why should a company pay for maternity since the mother or father are not producing during that time period?

[Olthar]

Yes. Having children should nor be a luxury for the rich. News flash: you need reproduction if you don't want the species to collapse, and you need enough of it to hit replacement rate, at minimum. Also of note: most people aren't rich and need paid leave to survive after their children are born. Or do expect rich families to have 20 kids each? Not having paid leave is morally abominable and a complete betrayal of rationality.

[Genivaria]

Hmm I'm not sure tbh - on one hand parental leave makes absolute sense from perspective from child rearing as they need time to take care of newborn and stuff but on the other hand having child is voluntary personal decision and government subsidizing that isn't really ideal... not really sure of the ideal solution but perhaps some sort of carers allowance for people voluntarily caring for newborn - essentially allowing the primary caregiver to make it their full time role (essentially extending Carer's Allowance)?

Daycares is already a thing for busy parents, they can however be expensive.

[Galloism]

Most companies can afford it, the ones who can't can get a tax break.

Why should a company pay for maternity since the mother or father are not producing during that time period?

The same can be said for almost any benefit the company gives - including sick leave, funeral leave, workman's comp, vacation pay, bathroom breaks, when that guy named Phil tries to talk to you about 'corporate synergy'...

[Genivaria]

Most companies can afford it, the ones who can't can get a tax break.

Why should a company pay for maternity since the mother or father are not producing during that time period?

The exact same logic can be used for denying workers comp.
In fact it WAS used.

And the answer to both is that if a company treats it's employees as expendable than noone will want to work for it and the company will be left with nothing but rookies be cause of the high turnover rate.

[Akavi]

Why should the state subsidise a private employees pay?

The state benefits from rearing children; that much is undeniable.

Actually it is deniable; It entirely depends on what group of people are breeding. If you've got a family with a single mother, six children, two of whom are criminals and drug abusers living out of government housing, the state is highly unlikely to benefit from that. Also the spawn of criminals and criminal minorities.

For example, American Blacks are an undesirable group to continue breeding when you look at crime statistics of Americans by demographic, so the state should have no reason to subsidise their maternity pay or give them welfare as they are a continuous drain on the rest of society. Same goes for trailer trash whites and whites infected with black "culture" and Muslims that believe in a violent and barbaric religion of intolerance.

[Saiwania]

Yes. Having children should nor be a luxury for the rich. News flash: you need reproduction if you don't want the species to collapse, and you need enough of it to hit replacement rate, at minimum. Also of note: most people aren't rich and need paid leave to survive after their children are born. Or do expect rich families to have 20 kids each? Not having paid leave is morally abominable and a complete betrayal of rationality.

I have this theory that birth rates should be self correcting for the most part. Not enough workers to support retirees should = a shrinking economy = more poverty = a rise in birthrates back to equilibrium. But realistically, it probably only happens after an extended period of sub-replacement level birthrates.

It is no coincidence that all of the world's most populous nations are poor while the nations with low birth rates are all wealthy. My conclusion is that there will be no population rebound until a country becomes poorer again. It is a boom and bust cycle.