NationStates

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:12 pm**

Oklahoman State wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/us/dylann-roof-trial/index.html

Dylann roof has today been sentenced to death for his activities towards blacks. I personally believe his death penalty should be immediately reversed. the Jury should be ashamed of themselves. The death penalty is not appropriate.

Regardless, he has purportedly admitted some sort of guilt for this accused activity, and so the Jury subsequently found him guilty and sentenced him to death today.

Do you think Dylann Roof should have his sentence pardoned? How do you think this bodes for White-Black relations? How do you feel about his purported activities and subsequent retaliation?

Dylan Roof killed over a dozen people who were in a position where they were incapable of defending themselves in the name of starting a race war, which could very easily be considered an act of terrorism. He than refused to defend himself, showing no absolutely no remorse ever, not during the trial, not during sentencing. The only two reasons which would not be completely morally reprehensible, to generate a case against the death penalty, is to point out that he likely wants to die a martyr, or that the opposed is morally against the death penalty entire.

That you would defend this psychopath is absolutely disgusting, and demonstrates a significant amount of cognitive dissonance.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:12 pm**

"Activities towards blacks"? I think that's a very light spin to put on murder.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:12 pm**

Roosevetania wrote:This is shameful. By killing killers, we become as bad as the killers themselves. Two wrongs don't make a right. Killing is never okay. Ever. EVER.

No we don't.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:12 pm**

Thermodolia wrote:
The Realm of Lordaeron wrote:

The reason it takes so long is because of all the mandatory appeals.

That process is supposed to help cut down on those wrongly executed.

Unfortunately, it still only does such a job. but i guess some people believe it's totally cool to kill 4% of the innocent, as long as the 96% who are guilty get the death penalty. out of some perverse sense of 'justice'.

http://www.newsweek.com/one-25-executed ... ims-248889

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/2 ... 28854.html

I think the death penalty should be abolished if it saves one person who is innocent from getting unjustly executed. That makes us almost as bad as the people we are executing!

-- http://www.ncadp.org/pages/innocence

It doesn't help that most of those executed tend to be overwhelmingly poor or minority(or both!). If you're rich, you can often buy your way to freedom. This is part of the fundamental injustices of our imperfect, human system, but giving such an unjust system the power of life and death is an injustice all it's own.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/race-de ... 976#defend

4% might be too high but it's not high enough to ban the death penalty. Besides I'd get rid of the mandatory appeals, however they can get a stay on their execution for as long as they wish while they fight their case.

It might be higher, it might be lower. It's impossible to know for sure. but 10% is the number that have been exonerated from 1973-2015, according to statistics. The number of those convicted and not exonerated is probably significantly higher. 10% is just the actual exonerations. and the State doesn't tend to bother exonerating already dead convicts.

So which family member are you willing to sacrifice for this base 10% quota?

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:14 pm**

Neutraligon wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Pretty much I'm a lazy bastard

No, you are a person who cares so little about their fellow humans that you are willing to essentially commit murder of the innocent because you are impatient. Ensuring you don't kill the innocent by taking a little more time is hardy a great sacrifice. You didn't answer my question, would you be willing to be that innocent person?

I didn't see you question. And no I wouldn't want to kill them. But I still don't think it's enough to get rid of the death penalty

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:14 pm**

Thermodolia wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:No, you are a person who cares so little about their fellow humans that you are willing to essentially commit murder of the innocent because you are impatient. Ensuring you don't kill the innocent by taking a little more time is hardy a great sacrifice. You didn't answer my question, would you be willing to be that innocent person?

I didn't see you question. And no I wouldn't want to kill them. But I still don't think it's enough to get rid of the death penalty

Taking time to ensure the guilt of the person is not getting rid of the death penalty.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:14 pm**

The Realm of Lordaeron wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:4% might be too high but it's not high enough to ban the death penalty. Besides I'd get rid of the mandatory appeals, however they can get a stay on their execution for as long as they wish while they fight their case.

It might be higher, it might be lower. It's impossible to know for sure. but 10% is the number that have been exonerated from 1973-2015, according to statistics. The number of those convicted and not exonerated is probably significantly higher. 10% is just the actual exonerations. and the State doesn't tend to bother exonerating already dead convicts.

So which family member are you willing to sacrifice for this base 10% quota?

I'm not going to play your game

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:15 pm**

Neutraligon wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Pretty much I'm a lazy bastard

No, you are a person who cares so little about their fellow humans that you are willing to essentially commit murder of the innocent because you are impatient. Ensuring you don't kill the innocent by taking a little more time is hardy a great sacrifice. You didn't answer my question, would you be willing to be that innocent person?

The thing is that actually going through the whole process of imperfectly 'making sure' the individual is guilty actually costs more than life imprisonment itself. The individual being executed doesn't even feel any 'pain', so it's not like they're really being punished. The only people being punished are the family members and the innocent.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:15 pm**

Thermodolia wrote:
The Realm of Lordaeron wrote:
It might be higher, it might be lower. It's impossible to know for sure. but 10% is the number that have been exonerated from 1973-2015, according to statistics. The number of those convicted and not exonerated is probably significantly higher. 10% is just the actual exonerations. and the State doesn't tend to bother exonerating already dead convicts.

So which family member are you willing to sacrifice for this base 10% quota?

I'm not going to play your game

What game? The consequence of shortening the process to 5 years is that the innocent will die, and that one of your relatives, or even you might be that innocent.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:16 pm**

Thermodolia wrote:
The Realm of Lordaeron wrote:
It might be higher, it might be lower. It's impossible to know for sure. but 10% is the number that have been exonerated from 1973-2015, according to statistics. The number of those convicted and not exonerated is probably significantly higher. 10% is just the actual exonerations. and the State doesn't tend to bother exonerating already dead convicts.

So which family member are you willing to sacrifice for this base 10% quota?

I'm not going to play your game

It's not a game, that's what you're not seeing.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:17 pm**

Neutraligon wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:I didn't see you question. And no I wouldn't want to kill them. But I still don't think it's enough to get rid of the death penalty

Taking time to ensure the guilt of the person is not getting rid of the death penalty.

Fair enough I'll concede that point. Though I do think there are some things we can do to limit the time they spend on death row.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:17 pm**

Oklahoman State wrote:I don't think Dylann is necessarily guilty, i mean, what proof do they have?

You've got to be joking. :meh:

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:17 pm**

Ifreann wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:Generally, as a Christian, I oppose the death penalty by the way, but in cases like this, I really can't say "DON'T DO IT." What other options are there? The kid is permanently fucked and killed a ton of people, a lethal injection is probably a good idea here.

Life sentences are a thing.

So are prisoners escaping and killing people in prison. I do think there should be a higher standard for the death penalty. Beyond a shadow of a doubt rather than beyond a reasonable doubt. While rare, this case is such a case. A mistake here is not possible.

Then the test should be wil he be a threat to other inmates or guards? Is he an escape risk?
If he is then hang him (not advocating death, just stating what I think the test for the death penalty should be, I am not sure how a judge would rule on the last part in this case).

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:17 pm**

The Realm of Lordaeron wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:No, you are a person who cares so little about their fellow humans that you are willing to essentially commit murder of the innocent because you are impatient. Ensuring you don't kill the innocent by taking a little more time is hardy a great sacrifice. You didn't answer my question, would you be willing to be that innocent person?

The thing is that actually going through the whole process of imperfectly 'making sure' the individual is guilty actually costs more than life imprisonment itself. The individual being executed doesn't even feel any 'pain', so it's not like they're really being punished. The only people being punished are the family members and the innocent.

Oh I am against the death penalty for this and for the reason that it is impossible to ensure the person is actually the guilty one. Please follow the conversation back to realize why I responded the way I did. Oh and my feeling on the death penalty is not that it is a punishment, it exists to ensure that a person who is such a danger to society that even life in prison is not enough to defend society are no longer that danger.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:17 pm**

Neutraligon wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:I'm not going to play your game

What game? The consequence of shortening the process to 5 years is that the innocent will die, and that one of your relatives, or even you might be that innocent.

Please see my above post

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:19 pm**

Not a fan of the death penalty, but it all matches up

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:19 pm**

Luziyca wrote:...while it is expensive because of the appeals, and I may not support it due to cost and also the risk of executing the wrong dude, I honestly could not care less about Roof.

I mean, as a Canadian, I don't need to worry about keeping a Roof over my head because of the costs that us taxpayers would pay. Especially someone who confessed and is not remorseful.

Trust me, you don't want Dylann Roof over your head.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:20 pm**

Opposed to the death penalty so obviously opposed to this sentence. The strangest thing I found with this case is that people are so wary of calling Roof a terrorist, but that might be because I come from a country which doesn't immediately think Muslim when they hear the word terrorist.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:24 pm**

the State has killed more innocent people with the death penalty than Dylann Roof could have ever dreamed of killing.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:28 pm**

Neutraligon wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:I'm not going to play your game

What game? The consequence of shortening the process to 5 years is that the innocent will die, and that one of your relatives, or even you might be that innocent.

Well the solution is the legal standard for the orginal conviction. Beyond a reasonable doubt still leaves a possibility of mistake. For death penalty it should be beyond a shadow of a doubt. Which is really hard to prove.

This case meets the standard. If there is any possible doubt the death penalty should not be available.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:32 pm**

I find the death penalty to be repugnant, so I’m not cheering for the sentence. Not to mention that creating martyrs for white supremacy is not the best idea.

That being said, there are a select class of people I wouldn’t miss and Dylann Roof is among their number.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:35 pm**

Chestaan wrote:Opposed to the death penalty so obviously opposed to this sentence. The strangest thing I found with this case is that people are so wary of calling Roof a terrorist, but that might be because I come from a country which doesn't immediately think Muslim when they hear the word terrorist.

You'll get no objections from me when it comes to calling that shitbag the terrorist he is. If he were on fire, I wouldn't piss on him to put it out.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:45 pm**

I don't agree with the death penalty, but, for such a heinous crime, I think it was consistent to use the highest punishment. I still wish that the death penalty be abolished, but, I understand why they used the death penalty.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:47 pm**

The Serbian Empire wrote:
Luziyca wrote:...while it is expensive because of the appeals, and I may not support it due to cost and also the risk of executing the wrong dude, I honestly could not care less about Roof.

I mean, as a Canadian, I don't need to worry about keeping a Roof over my head because of the costs that us taxpayers would pay. Especially someone who confessed and is not remorseful.

Trust me, you don't want Dylann Roof over your head.

But it lasts much longer than most other roofs.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:48 pm**

I personally think he deserved it. Any human that can kill so many innocent people in a place of family and safety is a truly horrible person and a menace to society. I don't think race relations will be altered by his execution, as even most white supremacists thought his actions where horrifying, and i am sure black people will be happy to have some justice for crimes committed against their people.

NationStates

Dylann Roof sentenced to death