The "I was in the military" card

[Conserative Morality]

I wish I could've joined, but I apparently had several genetic defects that were automatic DQs from every branch. Being in the military is a respectable and honorable position. It's signing away years of your life and possibly your safety for struggle, toil, and discipline.

But it doesn't make you an expert. It doesn't mean you aren't an asshole. It means you made one good, and difficult, decision for your life.

[Kubra]

If some dude says "I was in the military" just say "yeah so was McClellan"
If one is british and not american, substitute Haig

[Fartsniffage]

If some dude says "I was in the military" just say "yeah so was McClellan"
If one is british and not american, substitute Haig

Haig was less terrible than you think.

[Venerable Bede]

In many ancient societies, military service was seen as going hand-in-hand with political enfranchisement. Starship Troopers is even on the official Marine Corps reading list. So not really surprising.

[MERIZoC]

I'll have you know my father was a Hussar of King Frederick II

[Rovikstead]

I believe that people should be able to take pride in their work and occupation, such as being in the military, and use your experience to be used as evidence for something like as proof for why you're skilled in something.

I also believe that militants should be given respect for their service, but I do not believe that it gives them the right to use the so-called "I was in the military" card to get extra privileges and to seem more superior to others simply to feel above others.

[Kubra]

If some dude says "I was in the military" just say "yeah so was McClellan"
If one is british and not american, substitute Haig

Haig was less terrible than you think.

and so was McClellan but that's not the point
the butt of jokes is what it is

[Thermodolia]

In discussions of politics and social issues, especially in the United States, it is not uncommon I've found for veterans, currently serving soldiers, or even people simply related to those who are/have served to cite their connection to the military as a way of lending a kind of greater legitimacy to their own opinions and viewpoints. Sometimes this behavior can branch beyond politics altogether and we get people who seem to think that having connections to military service grants them a sort of "wiser outlook" on life in general and that by merely reminding others of this connection, they have irreparably trumped anything anyone could possibly say in protest, because none of them could possibly understand the EYE-OPENING experience that is being a solider! It tends to be more common among conservatives though liberals are not immune.

Now look, I don't doubt for one minute that being in the military is a very daunting life choice that lend a person a lot of experience in areas such as the values of dicipline, hard work, and sacrifice, especially if you served in direct combat. But it seems that very few people (or at least Americans) are willing to draw a line in the sand as to where being a soldier lends greater weight to your opinions and where it does not. The simple act of responding to someone saying "I was a soldier" to boost their "cred" in a discussion with "That doesn't matter" comes across as an unspoken taboo in a lot of circles, and those who cross it are usually made to feel ashamed for suggesting... suggesting what? That being trained in combat doesn't do anything to teach you about properly budgeting the city's taxes, or what laws about public spaces should be passed, or who should be president? But it doesn't. Nobody denies that military service is rough, important work, but is there anything incorrect with pointing out that doing that work doesn't automatically make you an expert on every other function of society and life?

For one thing, soldiers and veterans do not all share the same opinions and views on everything. While one report found that while the US military is primarily conservative, it is not as conservative as some people might have you believe, and indeed this slant might be moreso due to the fact that people with pre-existing conservative viewpoints are more likely to join the military than it does with the military "granting" them those outlooks. Speaking from personal experience, I have at least three veterans in my family, one who was a marine and two who served in Korea, and all three were/are hardcore left-leaning liberals before and after service. Nothing about their services were any less hardcore or rough and yet they kept those views, a far cry from the, "All that hard work and getting my ass whipped in the military showed me how things work here in the REAL WORLD!" narrative some soldiers with opposing ideals would smugly pedal. I have seen videos and articles all preaching opposite positions from each other and yet all created by someone with connection to the military and tacitly if not outright stating this as a reason that they have more of a right to be listened to. They can't all be right "becuz military."

I think the problem is ultimately rooted in cofusing intention with qualification. Serving in the military can pretty much undoubtedly be cited as proof that one genuinely and strongly cares about the wellbeing of their country and is trying to make the best decisions for it - however, just because someone wants what's best doesn't mean that they know what's best. It seems to be easily forgotten in the heat of debate that hardly anyone out there is actively rooting for the destruction of their own country, people with opposing viewpoints more often than not truly, honest-to-god want the same things as you, they just think that those things are achieved in through different means. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. When one is bent on seeing "destructive" practices for their country as a result of an underlying malice, it can then be easy to see how one might start to assume that those whose good intentions for their country are clear must have all the answers, but that's simply not how this really works.



So where exactly do we draw a line in the sand as to where one's military experience lending them expertise ends, and how do we go about pointing this out in the event that someone fallaciously tries to use military connections to claim undue authority on subject matter? What sort of areas and skills would you argue that someone can legitimately claim military service lends them authority in versus which ones it definitely does not? Has playing the "I was in the military" card hurt public discourse by creating a convenient shutdown button for certain people, has it lead to mistakes in legislature, if so, how and what?

Wowsers could you at least put a TL;DR on that?

[Thermodolia]

I did not solely give anecdotal evidence, there's a link in the OP relaying the specific numbers of political leanings in the military. I gave my personal experience in addition to hard numbers to inform that I'm not just some anti-military "hippie" complaining about servicemen and women.

No such thing as "leaning" political in the military. It is strictly neutral and you will find people from all walks of life in there.

If I remember correctly one of my friends had a Afghani translator in his boot camp

[Thermodolia]

Um, what the hell does former military occupation got to do with political views? It's like saying all people who used to be mailmen have certain views.

NOTHING, that's the point, obviously. There are people out there who like to claim being in the military creates a certain political viewpoint ("toughens them up and makes them see reality"), the "correct" viewpoint, when that is demonstrably false when you look and see that the military is filled with all different viewpoints.

The political leanings of every individual in the US military is either green, blue and brown. No other political leaning exists presently.

Really now? They don't have politicians they'd rather see in office or laws they'd rather see passed? They don't ever vote again in their lives or register with a political party once they become involved with the military?

Well while you are in the military you don't really get the benefit of a political opinion.

[Internationalist Bastard]

No such thing as "leaning" political in the military. It is strictly neutral and you will find people from all walks of life in there.

If I remember correctly one of my friends had a Afghani translator in his boot camp

Yeah, military takes all kinds. But most importantly, you're not allowed to be political while in uniform

[Thermodolia]

The fact that you can't express politics while acting as a representative of the military has zilch to do with the topic. The fact remains that soldiers still participate in political thinking and subscribe to political viewpoints on their own time as independent people, and some people may cite their military experience as informing those viewpoints. If you don't care about that fact you're more than welcome to leave, it'd be better than this obvious backpedaling nonsense meant to cover up your original misreading.

The only real expertise that the military members offer is intelligence community, foreign diplomacy (Possibly police action as well for internal affairs) and military action against other forces.

Apparently us docs and 68W don't exist?

[United States of Conner]

Military service, I've found, is at least for me perfectly applicable for some issues.

That being said, it isn't always. Yeah, I was in combat. Doesn't mean that I'm suddenly an expert on economics and inflation.

[The Saint James Islands]

If we’re talking about something that relates to the military in some way, then I’m more inclined to take service as an indicator of expertise. It’s not a guarantee, though. If the topic has no relation to the armed forces in any way, then military service is irrelevant to the conversation.

Given the number of war veterans I’m exposed to on a daily basis where I live, I’ve got a lot of respect for them, what with the shit that they go through. In my (admittedly meaningless) experience, most don’t flaunt it and if they do, they tend to be jerks trying to get a leg up. Fuck those jerks.

Am I still a chickenhawk if I'm more in favor of the use of force but never served, if the US military literally won't take me, even if there were a draft?

The definition of a chickenhawk requires that you have the opportunity to serve, but actively avoid doing so. If you want to serve, but cannot due to extenuating circumstances, that would disqualify you from being a chickenhawk.

[Nilla Wayfarers]

Participation in the military, particularly in combat, deserves by default some kind of respect. Whether the standing of an individual in other aspects undermines or upholds that respect is a case-by-case basis.

Of course, simply being in the military doesn't make anyone particularly qualified on any one subject, unless they were trained specifically regarding that subject.

Service warrants respect, but it does not grant omniscience.

[NERVUN]

TBH, participation in the military doesn't impress me. We have more, much more, support troops than frontline. Tell me what you actually did. If you were in combat, I'll take that into account and afford you respect. If you spent your time in Europe guarding trees... not so much.

I've known too many vets whose tours of duty consisted of sailing around in circles playing PS for a few years to be automatically impressed.

What does worry me is that playing the vet card seems to be used to browbeat anyone you don't like or demand special treatment.

[Autumn Wind]

TBH, participation in the military doesn't impress me. We have more, much more, support troops than frontline. Tell me what you actually did. If you were in combat, I'll take that into account and afford you respect. If you spent your time in Europe guarding trees... not so much.

I've known too many vets whose tours of duty consisted of sailing around in circles playing PS for a few years to be automatically impressed.

What does worry me is that playing the vet card seems to be used to browbeat anyone you don't like or demand special treatment.

Pretty much this.

On a personal note, when I was in the majority of the soldiers I served with seemed to be apolitical, rather than partisan. The loudest seemed to be on the conservative side, but most rolled their eyes at people who felt the need to spout their political views.

[Feriq]

Serviceman should be allotted some respect, but to believe that the rank and file of the military is somehow wiser than the average American is horribly naive and unfounded.

Position in the military seems a far more important indicator in my eyes.

[Fartsniffage]

2015, I was in the US. I went to the Woodstock museum. The guy in front of me in the queue asked about a discount for veterans. I, jokingly, asked the guy if they offered the same to veterans from other countries.

I got in for free. The actual American with me had to pay $15.

[Mer Salcia]

2015, I was in the US. I went to the Woodstock museum. The guy in front of me in the queue asked about a discount for veterans. I, jokingly, asked the guy if they offered the same to veterans from other countries.

I got in for free. The actual American with me had to pay $15.

All of America is kind of like this actually.

[Fartsniffage]

2015, I was in the US. I went to the Woodstock museum. The guy in front of me in the queue asked about a discount for veterans. I, jokingly, asked the guy if they offered the same to veterans from other countries.

I got in for free. The actual American with me had to pay $15.

All of America is kind of like this actually.

Why?

[Jerzylvania]

Giving yourself legitimacy based off of your occupation, gender, or race is pretty popular and not just what the military does.

It's a common crutch.

[Boshtova]

It is a bit of a sore nerve for me, because there are those of us out there who're ineligible for military service.

My eyesight isn't good enough, so I'm excluded from service with any branch I could conceivably sign up for. I'm not going to bother applying if I know beforehand that I'll fail any physical. I've looked up the requirements and talked to recruiters in the know and I at least have it verified that I'm not what they're looking for. If I get 4F status put on my record, some people might discriminate against me if they see that.

Just another opportunity closed off to me because I was born into an imperfect body. I just wanted a job that doesn't pay pennies and didn't require a resume as a temporary meal ticket, whilst maybe learning some useful skills and overcoming adversity. It was never meant to be.

Am I still a chickenhawk if I'm more in favor of the use of force but never served, if the US military literally won't take me, even if there were a draft?

AND AN ANIME FLAG TO TOP IT ALL OFF! HAH!

[Mer Salcia]

All of America is kind of like this actually.

Why?

Everywhere I turn, people are charging me like at least $15 for things that I want, and I'm not a veteran.

[Salandriagado]

Yes, but the military doing it often seems to be one of the few times a good chunk of people feel content to let it slip by unchallenged.

Not really, a lot of people try to demand rank and shit.

From what I've heard, "try" is the operative word there, and trying such is a really good way to avoid actually getting said rank, though it does tend to lead to rather a lot of shit going your way.

In many ancient society's, military service was seen as going hand-in-hand with political enfranchisement. Starship Troopers is even on the official Marine Corps reading list. So not really surprising.

I find it hilarious that the Marine Corps has a reading list.