Couple refuses to tip black waitress

[Lavochkin]

Then again, if tips were abolished and no legislation was created to replace it, waiters would actually be earning less money since a loophole allows tipped workers to earn below minimum wage.

And increasing the minimum wage would just increase the prices of every other good, which wouldn't just hurt tipped-employees but everyone else as well.

That's not a loophole. There's a tip credit that depends on actual tip earnings to be used.

If insufficient tips are given to meet minimum wage, the employer must, by law, make up the difference.

Also, labor doesn't make up 100% of the cost of a good. Doubling the minimum wage means an average price increase of 4.3%.

https://thinkprogress.org/this-is-how-m ... .9zj8pmlnl

It is a loophole when the minimum wage is as quote "the lowest wage permitted by law or by a special agreement". Tipping is an exception, not the norm.

Also the minimum minimum wage is $2.13 for an employee that earns $30 a months on tips. There are jobs that are not much more skilled that will earn you $30 in a few hours. The law is a joke and it's definitely a loophole.

No labor is not everything, but labor is used in everything. If wages increased, the actual price to make say a cup of coffee might not go up, but the trucks that need to deliver the coffee beans will be more expensive as the drivers cost more, the gas cost more, which makes other means of getting goods increase. When you look at the total, it's a big increase.

As for evidence, I live in Washington so this article explains our issues pretty well (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/erikahaas/ ... p-n2246718) and since I live in Seattle (one of the leaders in high minimum wages), I can tell you that my cost of living has gone up more than 4.3%, but since I don't make minimum wage, I'm actually losing money every time the wage goes up.

[USS Monitor]

That's not a loophole. There's a tip credit that depends on actual tip earnings to be used.

If insufficient tips are given to meet minimum wage, the employer must, by law, make up the difference.

Also, labor doesn't make up 100% of the cost of a good. Doubling the minimum wage means an average price increase of 4.3%.

https://thinkprogress.org/this-is-how-m ... .9zj8pmlnl

It is a loophole when the minimum wage is as quote "the lowest wage permitted by law or by a special agreement". Tipping is an exception, not the norm.

Also the minimum minimum wage is $2.13 for an employee that earns $30 a months on tips. There are jobs that are not much more skilled that will earn you $30 in a few hours. The law is a joke and it's definitely a loophole.

No labor is not everything, but labor is used in everything. If wages increased, the actual price to make say a cup of coffee might not go up, but the trucks that need to deliver the coffee beans will be more expensive as the drivers cost more, the gas cost more, which makes other means of getting goods increase. When you look at the total, it's a big increase.

As for evidence, I live in Washington so this article explains our issues pretty well (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/erikahaas/ ... p-n2246718) and since I live in Seattle (one of the leaders in high minimum wages), I can tell you that my cost of living has gone up more than 4.3%, but since I don't make minimum wage, I'm actually losing money every time the wage goes up.

Who the fuck makes $30 a month in tips? At that point, you're working so few hours you have time to go and look for another job, or the restaurant you work for gets so little business, they probably couldn't pay you properly if they wanted.

[Farnhamia]

People being grade a cunts shouldnt even be news

Yeah, no wonder Hillary and her campaign got so little airtime.

*** 7 day ban for trolling. ***

Referring to two unknown people as cunts is one thing, taking it and making a Hillary Clinton remark is something quite different. You know where the rules are posted at the top of the forums, review them and refresh your memory as to where the boundaries are.

[Lavochkin]

It is a loophole when the minimum wage is as quote "the lowest wage permitted by law or by a special agreement". Tipping is an exception, not the norm.

Also the minimum minimum wage is $2.13 for an employee that earns $30 a months on tips. There are jobs that are not much more skilled that will earn you $30 in a few hours. The law is a joke and it's definitely a loophole.

No labor is not everything, but labor is used in everything. If wages increased, the actual price to make say a cup of coffee might not go up, but the trucks that need to deliver the coffee beans will be more expensive as the drivers cost more, the gas cost more, which makes other means of getting goods increase. When you look at the total, it's a big increase.

As for evidence, I live in Washington so this article explains our issues pretty well (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/erikahaas/ ... p-n2246718) and since I live in Seattle (one of the leaders in high minimum wages), I can tell you that my cost of living has gone up more than 4.3%, but since I don't make minimum wage, I'm actually losing money every time the wage goes up.

Who the fuck makes $30 a month in tips? At that point, you're working so few hours you have time to go and look for another job, or the restaurant you work for gets so little business, they probably couldn't pay you properly if they wanted.

What's your argument? $30 a month in tips is a fact, not my opinion.

[Shazbotdom]

Who the fuck makes $30 a month in tips? At that point, you're working so few hours you have time to go and look for another job, or the restaurant you work for gets so little business, they probably couldn't pay you properly if they wanted.

What's your argument? $30 a month in tips is a fact, not my opinion.

And, what restaurant is this at? Because honestly, the wait staff under me can walk out of here with at least $95 a night cash tips.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

What's your argument? $30 a month in tips is a fact, not my opinion.

And, what restaurant is this at? Because honestly, the wait staff under me can walk out of here with at least $95 a night cash tips.

I think what he means is that in his state (Washington), the law lets employers get away with handing out $2.13/hr in wages when the employee's tips are equal or greater than $30/month.

[Lavochkin]

What's your argument? $30 a month in tips is a fact, not my opinion.

And, what restaurant is this at? Because honestly, the wait staff under me can walk out of here with at least $95 a night cash tips.

The fine restaurant in question is called: The United States Department of Labor

https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

[Lavochkin]

And, what restaurant is this at? Because honestly, the wait staff under me can walk out of here with at least $95 a night cash tips.

I think what he means is that in his state (Washington), the law lets employers get away with handing out $2.13/hr when tips are equal or greater than $30/month.

Not my state, the entire United States: https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

[USS Monitor]

What's your argument? $30 a month in tips is a fact, not my opinion.

And, what restaurant is this at? Because honestly, the wait staff under me can walk out of here with at least $95 a night cash tips.

My roommate that used to work at a restaurant sure as fuck made more than $30 a month in tips. I don't know the exact amount because they were his tips, not mine, but it was more like a couple hundred -- and this wasn't a high-end restaurant where people are spending hundreds of dollars on their meal; it was some kind of casual dining/bar type of place.

[Galloism]

That's not a loophole. There's a tip credit that depends on actual tip earnings to be used.

If insufficient tips are given to meet minimum wage, the employer must, by law, make up the difference.

Also, labor doesn't make up 100% of the cost of a good. Doubling the minimum wage means an average price increase of 4.3%.

https://thinkprogress.org/this-is-how-m ... .9zj8pmlnl

It is a loophole when the minimum wage is as quote "the lowest wage permitted by law or by a special agreement". Tipping is an exception, not the norm.

Also the minimum minimum wage is $2.13 for an employee that earns $30 a months on tips. There are jobs that are not much more skilled that will earn you $30 in a few hours. The law is a joke and it's definitely a loophole.

Not a loophole - working as designed. If you make only $30 per month in tips, your employer must make sure you make no less than the federal minimum wage taking into account those tips.

So if you worked 100 hours in that month, and earned $30 in tips, he could pay you no less than $695. That's ($7.25 * 100) - $30.

No labor is not everything, but labor is used in everything. If wages increased, the actual price to make say a cup of coffee might not go up, but the trucks that need to deliver the coffee beans will be more expensive as the drivers cost more, the gas cost more, which makes other means of getting goods increase. When you look at the total, it's a big increase.

As for evidence, I live in Washington so this article explains our issues pretty well (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/erikahaas/ ... p-n2246718) and since I live in Seattle (one of the leaders in high minimum wages), I can tell you that my cost of living has gone up more than 4.3%, but since I don't make minimum wage, I'm actually losing money every time the wage goes up.

Really?

University of Washington studied it and found, scientifically, there's been very little change so far.

Child care might have spiked, but others costs haven't - at least not yet.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

And, what restaurant is this at? Because honestly, the wait staff under me can walk out of here with at least $95 a night cash tips.

My roommate that used to work at a restaurant sure as fuck made more than $30 a month in tips. I don't know the exact amount because they were his tips, not mine, but it was more like a couple hundred -- and this wasn't a high-end restaurant where people are spending hundreds of dollars on their meal; it was some kind of casual dining/bar type of place.

Again, Federal Law (sorry, Lavochkin for getting that confused) determines that a person may only earn 2.13/hr as a minimum wage if their wages are equal or greater than 30 dollars a month.

What this means is that below 30 dollars a month they get whatever the federal minimum wage for non-tipped employees earn, which is around 7.25/hr.

[Galloism]

And, what restaurant is this at? Because honestly, the wait staff under me can walk out of here with at least $95 a night cash tips.

I think what he means is that in his state (Washington), the law lets employers get away with handing out $2.13/hr in wages when the employee's tips are equal or greater than $30/month.

Except the tip credit really doesn't work that way.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I think what he means is that in his state (Washington), the law lets employers get away with handing out $2.13/hr in wages when the employee's tips are equal or greater than $30/month.

Except the tip credit really doesn't work that way.

Can you place a practical example of how does it work, then?

Because so far what I am understanding is that, if an employee earns more than 30 dollars of tips per month, the employee can get away with giving them 2.13 an hour in wages per hour, and I'm finding that rather hard to believe myself. And I am not into the tipping business either.

[Galloism]

Except the tip credit really doesn't work that way.

Can you place a practical example of how does it work, then?

Because so far what I am understanding is that, if an employee earns more than 30 dollars of tips per month, the employee can get away with giving them 2.13 an hour in wages per hour, and I'm finding that rather hard to believe myself. And I am not into the tipping business either.

Let's say you're a part time waiter. You work 100 hours per month. You customarily get $1,000 per month in tips.

Your employer can pay a wage as low as 2.13. This means you make $213 in wages and $1000 in tips. That's $1,213. This is in excess of your minimum wage of $725, so your employer gets the full tip credit of $512 dollars.

Now let's suppose you have an off month. Really off. Badly off. You only make $100 in tips. So your wage is still $213, plus $100 in tips, and that would be a total of $313. This is less than the federal minimum wage of $725, so your employer doesn't get the full tip credit. They must make up the difference, and give you an additional wage amount of $412. Then you have $625 in wages and $100 in tips, a total of $725, and the employer is within compliance.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Can you place a practical example of how does it work, then?

Because so far what I am understanding is that, if an employee earns more than 30 dollars of tips per month, the employee can get away with giving them 2.13 an hour in wages per hour, and I'm finding that rather hard to believe myself. And I am not into the tipping business either.

Let's say you're a part time waiter. You work 100 hours per month. You customarily get $1,000 per month in tips.

Your employer can pay a wage as low as 2.13. This means you make $213 in wages and $1000 in tips. That's $1,213. This is in excess of your minimum wage of $725, so your employer gets the full tip credit of $512 dollars.

Now let's suppose you have an off month. Really off. Badly off. You only make $100 in tips. So your wage is still $213, plus $100 in tips, and that would be a total of $313. This is less than the federal minimum wage of $725, so your employer doesn't get the full tip credit. They must make up the difference, and give you an additional wage amount of $412. Then you have $625 in wages and $100 in tips, a total of $725, and the employer is within compliance.

Okay, this makes far more sense.

I was confused with the "over 30 dollars in tips" figure.

[Lavochkin]

It is a loophole when the minimum wage is as quote "the lowest wage permitted by law or by a special agreement". Tipping is an exception, not the norm.

Also the minimum minimum wage is $2.13 for an employee that earns $30 a months on tips. There are jobs that are not much more skilled that will earn you $30 in a few hours. The law is a joke and it's definitely a loophole.

Not a loophole - working as designed. If you make only $30 per month in tips, your employer must make sure you make no less than the federal minimum wage taking into account those tips.

So if you worked 100 hours in that month, and earned $30 in tips, he could pay you no less than $695. That's ($7.25 * 100) - $30.

No labor is not everything, but labor is used in everything. If wages increased, the actual price to make say a cup of coffee might not go up, but the trucks that need to deliver the coffee beans will be more expensive as the drivers cost more, the gas cost more, which makes other means of getting goods increase. When you look at the total, it's a big increase.

As for evidence, I live in Washington so this article explains our issues pretty well (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/erikahaas/ ... p-n2246718) and since I live in Seattle (one of the leaders in high minimum wages), I can tell you that my cost of living has gone up more than 4.3%, but since I don't make minimum wage, I'm actually losing money every time the wage goes up.

Really?

University of Washington studied it and found, scientifically, there's been very little change so far.

Child care might have spiked, but others costs haven't - at least not yet.

A loophole doesn't mean it's a failure, it means it's an exception to something with no exceptions.

Also as for your evidence, it's assuming business won't raise their prices. Not if it will. Also it's comparison of 2015-2016 wages would obviously bring little difference since as said in the article, wages will only go to $15 in 2021. However if you compare prices from 2016-2010 or even from 2021-2016 (in the future), you will see a spike. And mind you something as little as 4% is still money you're losing. Would you be happy to lose 4% of your wage every year and gain nothing from it?

[Lavochkin]

Can you place a practical example of how does it work, then?

Because so far what I am understanding is that, if an employee earns more than 30 dollars of tips per month, the employee can get away with giving them 2.13 an hour in wages per hour, and I'm finding that rather hard to believe myself. And I am not into the tipping business either.

Let's say you're a part time waiter. You work 100 hours per month. You customarily get $1,000 per month in tips.

Your employer can pay a wage as low as 2.13. This means you make $213 in wages and $1000 in tips. That's $1,213. This is in excess of your minimum wage of $725, so your employer gets the full tip credit of $512 dollars.

Now let's suppose you have an off month. Really off. Badly off. You only make $100 in tips. So your wage is still $213, plus $100 in tips, and that would be a total of $313. This is less than the federal minimum wage of $725, so your employer doesn't get the full tip credit. They must make up the difference, and give you an additional wage amount of $412. Then you have $625 in wages and $100 in tips, a total of $725, and the employer is within compliance.

Making sure it's clear that "make up the difference" means making the employer pay you full minimum wage, not the tippers minimum wage.

https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

[Galloism]

Not a loophole - working as designed. If you make only $30 per month in tips, your employer must make sure you make no less than the federal minimum wage taking into account those tips.

So if you worked 100 hours in that month, and earned $30 in tips, he could pay you no less than $695. That's ($7.25 * 100) - $30.


Really?

University of Washington studied it and found, scientifically, there's been very little change so far.

Child care might have spiked, but others costs haven't - at least not yet.

A loophole doesn't mean it's a failure, it means it's an exception to something with no exceptions.

Except it doesn't work the way you claimed.

Also as for your evidence, it's assuming business won't raise their prices. Not if it will. Also it's comparison of 2015-2016 wages would obviously bring little difference since as said in the article, wages will only go to $15 in 2021. However if you compare prices from 2016-2010 or even from 2021-2016 (in the future), you will see a spike. And mind you something as little as 4% is still money you're losing. Would you be happy to lose 4% of your wage every year and gain nothing from it?

Well, it's quite likely to keep me doing the job I'm doing, presuming a doubled minimum wage (not my preference - I like $10.10), they'd have to raise my wage 10-15%, so the question then becomes "am I ok with a 4% price increase if I get a 10-15% wage increase?" The answer to that is "sure, I guess. "

[Galloism]

Let's say you're a part time waiter. You work 100 hours per month. You customarily get $1,000 per month in tips.

Your employer can pay a wage as low as 2.13. This means you make $213 in wages and $1000 in tips. That's $1,213. This is in excess of your minimum wage of $725, so your employer gets the full tip credit of $512 dollars.

Now let's suppose you have an off month. Really off. Badly off. You only make $100 in tips. So your wage is still $213, plus $100 in tips, and that would be a total of $313. This is less than the federal minimum wage of $725, so your employer doesn't get the full tip credit. They must make up the difference, and give you an additional wage amount of $412. Then you have $625 in wages and $100 in tips, a total of $725, and the employer is within compliance.

Making sure it's clear that "make up the difference" means making the employer pay you full minimum wage, not the tippers minimum wage.

https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

Making up the difference means ensuring the tipped employee receives at least full minimum wage between tips and wages.

https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.htm

[Galloism]

Let's say you're a part time waiter. You work 100 hours per month. You customarily get $1,000 per month in tips.

Your employer can pay a wage as low as 2.13. This means you make $213 in wages and $1000 in tips. That's $1,213. This is in excess of your minimum wage of $725, so your employer gets the full tip credit of $512 dollars.

Now let's suppose you have an off month. Really off. Badly off. You only make $100 in tips. So your wage is still $213, plus $100 in tips, and that would be a total of $313. This is less than the federal minimum wage of $725, so your employer doesn't get the full tip credit. They must make up the difference, and give you an additional wage amount of $412. Then you have $625 in wages and $100 in tips, a total of $725, and the employer is within compliance.

Okay, this makes far more sense.

I was confused with the "over 30 dollars in tips" figure.

Below $30 in tips a month, and you aren't a tipped employee. No tip credit is allowed for the employer at all.

[Lavochkin]

A loophole doesn't mean it's a failure, it means it's an exception to something with no exceptions.

Except it doesn't work the way you claimed.

Also as for your evidence, it's assuming business won't raise their prices. Not if it will. Also it's comparison of 2015-2016 wages would obviously bring little difference since as said in the article, wages will only go to $15 in 2021. However if you compare prices from 2016-2010 or even from 2021-2016 (in the future), you will see a spike. And mind you something as little as 4% is still money you're losing. Would you be happy to lose 4% of your wage every year and gain nothing from it?

Well, it's quite likely to keep me doing the job I'm doing, presuming a doubled minimum wage (not my preference - I like $10.10), they'd have to raise my wage 10-15%, so the question then becomes "am I ok with a 4% price increase if I get a 10-15% wage increase?" The answer to that is "sure, I guess. "

If you're going to refute my claim, please provide why my claim is wrong. And so far from reading your posts, I don't see what you're claiming since you're just writing multiple-sentence long statements on what I said with one sentence.

Also I don't know what job you're in. But if you get a 10-15% wage increase every year, then I would keep that job forever because for the rest of the people living in the real-world, wages don't go up like that.

[Galloism]

Except it doesn't work the way you claimed.


Well, it's quite likely to keep me doing the job I'm doing, presuming a doubled minimum wage (not my preference - I like $10.10), they'd have to raise my wage 10-15%, so the question then becomes "am I ok with a 4% price increase if I get a 10-15% wage increase?" The answer to that is "sure, I guess. "

If you're going to refute my claim, please provide why my claim is wrong. And so far from reading your posts, I don't see what you're claiming since you're just writing multiple-sentence long statements on what I said with one sentence.

Also I don't know what job you're in. But if you get a 10-15% wage increase every year, then I would keep that job forever because for the rest of the people living in the real-world, wages don't go up like that.

I don't, but when arkansas's minimum wage went up from 7.25 to 8.25, I got a raise from $23 to $25 as a result. To keep me from defecting to another company, as wages went up across the area. Aside from that, I usually get 0.25 to 0.50 per year.

Not unreasonable to assume similar would happen with a larger minimum wage increase, within reason of course.


As far as your gross misunderstanding of the tip credit, I suggest you read the DoL FAQ, or the regulations. They're quite clear.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Well, it's quite likely to keep me doing the job I'm doing, presuming a doubled minimum wage (not my preference - I like $10.10), they'd have to raise my wage 10-15%, so the question then becomes "am I ok with a 4% price increase if I get a 10-15% wage increase?" The answer to that is "sure, I guess. "

On this, I can help by putting a Big Mac meal as an example:

A price for a Big Mac meal in Little Rock, AR is 6 dollars as of December, 2016.

Right now, the minimum wage in Arkansas is 8.50. Let's say they say you will get a 10% increase from 8.50 to 9.35 an hour, but then you'd have to pay 6.25 for your Big Mac meal...

I don't see why anyone would complain, really, for 25 cents when you are getting 85 cents an hour more, which means you're better off because now you don't have to spend as much time making money for a Big Mac meal but much less (I could do the math as to how much time you must spend working at both 8.50 and 9.35 an hour to pay for a Big Mac meal at the prices I just quotes pre- and post-price shift, too, but the basic idea is there I suppose).

[Cuban Syria]

If people actually CLICKED the freaking link, they would've encountered an image just like this:



These idiots are saying

I don't see what's wrong with that. They have a right to refuse to tip.

This is a racist note. This really shouldn't be allowed.

Ms Carter says she really does hope to see the couple again.
"Just me serving them will let them know they did not get the best of me. And I truly mean that."

Strong woman, she is.

[Lavochkin]

If you're going to refute my claim, please provide why my claim is wrong. And so far from reading your posts, I don't see what you're claiming since you're just writing multiple-sentence long statements on what I said with one sentence.

Also I don't know what job you're in. But if you get a 10-15% wage increase every year, then I would keep that job forever because for the rest of the people living in the real-world, wages don't go up like that.

I don't, but when arkansas's minimum wage went up from 7.25 to 8.25, I got a raise from $23 to $25 as a result. To keep me from defecting to another company, as wages went up across the area. Aside from that, I usually get 0.25 to 0.50 per year.

Not unreasonable to assume similar would happen with a larger minimum wage increase, within reason of course.

I can partially believe that, but I worked for Microsoft for a few months as a paid-intern and I was paid originally $4 above the minimum wage and when Seattle raised it's min, mine was now pennies above the minimum wage and yet mine didn't rise. I don't work for Microsoft anymore but from what my friends tell me, no one is getting wage hikes unless you get a generous promotion.