Right-Wing Discussion Thread VIII: McCarthy Was Right

[Minzerland II]

What does RWDT think of legalizing recreational marijuana?

For it, even though I am personally against marijuana usage myself.

^This.

[Napkiraly]

No, I'm saying that, fucking somehow, India has held itself together despite having basically no common identity. It is an empire without and emperor

India is held together by its democratic institutions, a bit similar to the US which is also essentially (at least) two very different cultures in one country, not counting the native ones. That's called civic nationalism.

America is more cultural nationalist tbh.

[Questers]

I am against legalising drugs.

All of them or just some of them?

I'm not going to be drawn into the "why not tobacco and alcohol too!" argument because its flaws as an argument against prohibition of other drugs is well established.

also, tfw youre on a thread full of conservatives who think drugs should be legalised.

Point A:
"Decriminalisation" is a fad term. The only effect of decriminalisation is to make legalisation happen later rather than immediately. It's a continuation of the presently existing policy, which is ...

Point B:
There is no such thing as the war on drugs. It isn't "unenforceable" - it's unenforced. Pro-drug debaters claim that the ease of finding drugs is an argument in favour of legalising them. But this isn't true for any other thing that is illegal. It is not easy to find stolen goods. It is not easy to find illegal firearms. It is not easy to find a stolen car, or buy a stolen credit card or identity. Why? Because all those things are actually rigorously enforced. Law enforcement in those areas tackles demand; it finds, prosecutes, and imprisons people who break the law. In drugs, this isn't true. The police prosecute the suppliers, but they don't look to demand.

Point C:
Society has the right to impose restrictions on substances which affect public health and which destroy families. If some people have to have their lives ruined for breaking the law this will only be temporary. But nobody forced them to break the law. Drugs are a temptation. If there were practical reasons to avoid them, people wouldn't do them. Law enforcement can provide that practical reason.

[Great Minarchistan]

also, tfw youre on a thread full of conservatives who think drugs should be legalised.

ahem I'm a fiscal conservative and therefore I defend the legalization so we can earn more monies.

Point C:
Society has the right to impose restrictions on substances which affect public health and which destroy families. If some people have to have their lives ruined for breaking the law this will only be temporary. But nobody forced them to break the law. Drugs are a temptation. If there were practical reasons to avoid them, people wouldn't do them.

Then I don't think you have a problem with Supernanny States prohibiting things such as sugary drinks or fast food.

[Questers]

Then I don't think you have a problem with Supernanny States prohibiting things such as sugary drinks or fast food.

Nope.

Just like I don't have a problem with the state controlling water and air quality or what ingredients can and can not be put into food and what can or can not be marketed as medicine.

ahem I'm a fiscal conservative and therefore I defend the legalization so we can earn more monies.

"fiscal" and "social" conservatism is a dumb lie used to explain why people can hold contradictory positions.

But there you are - you are a 'conservative' and a 'minarchist' so you support allowing 18 year olds to buy drugs so that the state can tax them to fund government projects. Hmmm.

[Great Minarchistan]

Then I don't think you have a problem with Supernanny States prohibiting things such as sugary drinks or fast food.

Nope.

Just like I don't have a problem with the state controlling water and air quality or what ingredients can and can not be put into food and what can or can not be marketed as medicine.

If you aren't against the prohibition of sugary drinks and fast food, why are you against the legalization of drugs? You know what, sugar and salt can be as tempting and harmful as drugs.

"fiscal" and "social" conservatism is a dumb lie used to explain why people can hold contradictory positions.

Wrong.Conservative and liberal can have different meanings, and identify them by social and fiscal makes it easier to understand a position.

But there you are - you are a 'conservative' and a 'minarchist' so you support allowing 18 year olds to buy drugs so that the state can tax them to fund government projects. Hmmm.

I never mentioned a word about taxation...

[Questers]

Nope.

Just like I don't have a problem with the state controlling water and air quality or what ingredients can and can not be put into food and what can or can not be marketed as medicine.

If you aren't against the prohibition of sugary drinks and fast food, why are you against the legalization of drugs? You know what, sugar and salt can be as tempting and harmful as drugs.

I am actually in favour of the state regulating sugary drinks and other things also. Sugar is a massive public health crisis (I'm not sure that fast food is that bad, tbh.) The dangers of sugary drinks and fast food are completely different to narcotics and don't warrant sending people to jail for using them. This is called proportionality.

[Questers]

can have different meanings, and identify them by social and fiscal makes it easier to understand a position.

Yes, maybe if your understanding of politics comes from wikipedia.

I never mentioned a word about taxation...

we can earn more monies

I don't believe you are a drug dealer, but if you were, that would prove my point exactly.

[Great Minarchistan]

I am actually in favour of the state regulating sugary drinks and other things also. Sugar is a massive public health crisis (I'm not sure that fast food is that bad, tbh.)

Why can't people make their own decisions?

The dangers of sugary drinks and fast food are completely different to narcotics and don't warrant sending people to jail for using them. This is called proportionality.

Very well, if you want to talk about proportionality, why not legalize khat? It does less harm than tobacco, alcohol (maybe sugar), weed and another drugs.

Yes, maybe if your understanding of politics comes from wikipedia.

Nah, my understanding of politics just tells me that for the sake of simplicity the terms liberal and conservative should be carefully inserted.

I don't believe you are a drug dealer, but if you were, that would prove my point exactly.

If I ever produced the drug, I wouldn't be a drug dealer...

[Soldati Senza Confini]

But there you are - you are a 'conservative' and a 'minarchist' so you support allowing 18 year olds to buy drugs so that the state can tax them to fund government projects. Hmmm.

He probably doesn't. I support people 21 years old and older to buy drugs so that the state can tax them to fund government projects, yes.

If drugs are a lucrative commodity underground, of course that, as a currency-centric capitalist who thinks the government should tax the proceeds of drugs and regulate them, I want the state to get some of that money to go to public projects.

Any money that isn't taxed is a wasted opportunity to not get more money to fund infrastructure, social services, and so on.

[Greater USA]

But there you are - you are a 'conservative' and a 'minarchist' so you support allowing 18 year olds to buy drugs so that the state can tax them to fund government projects. Hmmm.

He probably doesn't. I support people 21 years old and older to buy drugs so that the state can tax them to fund government projects, yes.

If drugs are a lucrative commodity underground, of course that, as a currency-centric capitalist who thinks the government should tax the proceeds of drugs and regulate them, I want the state to get some of that money to go to public projects.

Any money that isn't taxed is a wasted opportunity to not get more money to fund infrastructure, social services, and so on.

The problem with hard drugs is that their presence disrupts communities and life beyond what we see with alcohol and tobacco. Criminal activity is tied to areas with illegal drug usage, and this isn't just due to smuggling being banned. Drugs have severe effects on health, economic productivity, safety, gang activity, etc.

[Thermodolia]

He probably doesn't. I support people 21 years old and older to buy drugs so that the state can tax them to fund government projects, yes.

If drugs are a lucrative commodity underground, of course that, as a currency-centric capitalist who thinks the government should tax the proceeds of drugs and regulate them, I want the state to get some of that money to go to public projects.

Any money that isn't taxed is a wasted opportunity to not get more money to fund infrastructure, social services, and so on.

The problem with hard drugs is that their presence disrupts communities and life beyond what we see with alcohol and tobacco. Criminal activity is tied to areas with illegal drug usage, and this isn't just due to smuggling being banned. Drugs have severe effects on health, economic productivity, safety, gang activity, etc.

Fund hospitals and rehabilitation centers with the drug tax money

[Great Minarchistan]

The problem with hard drugs is that their presence disrupts communities and life beyond what we see with alcohol and tobacco. Criminal activity is tied to areas with illegal drug usage, and this isn't just due to smuggling being banned. Drugs have severe effects on health, economic productivity, safety, gang activity, etc.

Fund hospitals and rehabilitation centers with the drug tax money

^ that's an option


Also, with the legalization of drugs you can get deeper into medicine that uses cannabis for treatment for example, allowing more affordable healthcare.

[The East Marches II]

No to sin taxes in general, insurance can rape you in prices if you want a bad habit.

[Great Minarchistan]

No to sin taxes in general, insurance can rape you in prices if you want a bad habit.

B-But muh supernanny state

[Thermodolia]

No to sin taxes in general, insurance can rape you in prices if you want a bad habit.

Well I'm not the biggest fan of insurance companies in general, they are a pos and a pain in the ass.

[Thermodolia]

No to sin taxes in general, insurance can rape you in prices if you want a bad habit.

B-But muh supernanny state

Foiled again!

[The East Marches II]

No to sin taxes in general, insurance can rape you in prices if you want a bad habit.

Well I'm not the biggest fan of insurance companies in general, they are a pos and a pain in the ass.

And my experience with government care leads me to believe they are incompetent fucks. Unless Uncle Sam is providing the insurance himself, he has no interest in that sort of thing. Sin taxes are merely a gimmick for moral busy bodies to feign disapproval while profiting from your choice. It's the worst sort of hypocrisy.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

No to sin taxes in general, insurance can rape you in prices if you want a bad habit.

I wouldn't go with a sin tax.

But rather categorize it under a luxury sales tax instead.

I mean, cannabis doesn't have much bad side effects so a sin tax is wholly unnecessary.

Heck, just with a sales tax in many states you could have millions of dollars into your economy. Just. The Sales Tax.

[Thermodolia]

Well I'm not the biggest fan of insurance companies in general, they are a pos and a pain in the ass.

And my experience with government care leads me to believe they are incompetent fucks. Unless Uncle Sam is providing the insurance himself, he has no interest in that sort of thing. Sin taxes are merely a gimmick for moral busy bodies to feign disapproval while profiting from your choice. It's the worst sort of hypocrisy.

Oh I'm well aware of the first sentence. I've been trying to avoid calling the VA all week but it looks like I'll have to.
But I would just go with a sales tax and not a sin tax

[Greater USA]

The problem with hard drugs is that their presence disrupts communities and life beyond what we see with alcohol and tobacco. Criminal activity is tied to areas with illegal drug usage, and this isn't just due to smuggling being banned. Drugs have severe effects on health, economic productivity, safety, gang activity, etc.

Fund hospitals and rehabilitation centers with the drug tax money

That could work, but I'm also concerned about drugs being widely accessible in the community to kids and teens. Especially in inner city areas. I know where I live there are a lot of seedy spots were heroin and LSD are accessible, and this negatively affects downtown life in a noticeable way.

What I'd like to see is law enforcement aggressively cracking down on the drug trade, but primarily focusing on who does the smuggling. If old Joe down the street with a family of 4 has some crack, we shouldn't ruin his life or do an overblown SWAT raid. But the drugs should be confiscated, and he should be expected to give information as to where the drugs came from (with protection for the family for safety concerns).

[Great Minarchistan]

I wouldn't go with a sin tax.

But rather categorize it under a luxury sales tax instead.

Ugh. Luxury taxes give me a headache, they bring almost nothing in revenue and are just a pain in the taxpayer's ass.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Well I'm not the biggest fan of insurance companies in general, they are a pos and a pain in the ass.

And my experience with government care leads me to believe they are incompetent fucks. Unless Uncle Sam is providing the insurance himself, he has no interest in that sort of thing. Sin taxes are merely a gimmick for moral busy bodies to feign disapproval while profiting from your choice. It's the worst sort of hypocrisy.

Like I told you once before, I'm not a fan of publicly-managed healthcare, but I would consider privately-managed hospitals and rehabilitation centers with public funding (or the Parkland model).

[Greater USA]

Fund hospitals and rehabilitation centers with the drug tax money

^ that's an option


Also, with the legalization of drugs you can get deeper into medicine that uses cannabis for treatment for example, allowing more affordable healthcare.

I'm all for legalizing pot, agreed.

[The East Marches II]

Just sales tax on things would be well enough.