Mass immigration: should we embrace it or not?

[Grave_n_idle]

The 'status quo' is fine. Nazis being Nazis is not a failure of the status quo. We don't negotiate with terrorists.

If all you have is pointless picspam, please don't waste my time.

In a debate where we have been discussing ACTUAL Nazism, mentioning Nazis is not a fallacy.

[Novus America]

How so? Considering rising ethinic tensions, segregation, ghettoization and continuing violence and difficulties it is clearly not.

I dunno where you are, but I'm living in a country that has been officially multicultural since the 70's and things are going just swimmingly.

What country? Maybe it is working someplaces. But not many places.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

Multiculturalism is working just fine.

Oh no.

Oh, no no no no no.

It is most certainly not working just fine.

I live in Canada, the most multicultural country there is, and I can attest that it simply does not work. It does away with the concept of integration and replaces it with pandering to dozens of different cultural groups. All this achieves is discord between the different cultures, because instead of integrating into a unified national identity and working together towards a common goal, they fight between themselves for their slice of the pie to the detriment of the country as a whole. The Québécois fight with the English, the Aboriginals fight with the Whites, the minorities fight with the majorities, and hardly anyone gets along. Separatism's become a huge issue, and chances are my country won't even exist come the 22nd century, or at the very least won't be nearly as large as it is today.

So no, multiculturalism is not working just fine.

... What? Have you been paying any attention to our political history in the last 30 years? Quebecois separatism got a stab in the gut way back in 2011 when the Bloc imploded under the weight of the NDP and the knife got a further twist when the PQ lost to the federalist Liberals in the 2014 provincial elections. Support for Quebecois independence is at the lowest point it has ever been - 73% of Quebecois want to remain with Canada. Relations between the First Nations and the federal government are at the highest point they've been in in a long long time thanks to Trudeau (and the contrast Harper provided) and minority relations has never been a significant enough issue to be on anyone's radar.

By pretty much any measure Canada's doing just fine. Things could always do better of course but spinning that image of ethnic chaos you have there is just downright dishonest.

[Grave_n_idle]

Multiculturalism is working just fine.

Oh no.

Oh, no no no no no.

It is most certainly not working just fine.

I live in Canada, the most multicultural country there is, and I can attest that it simply does not work.

I lived in London, which is arguably the most multicultural city in the world. It works just fine.

[Ostroeuropa]

(Image)

If all you have is pointless picspam, please don't waste my time.

In a debate where we have been discussing ACTUAL Nazism, mentioning Nazis is not a fallacy.

"We don't negotiate with terrorists! Stalin! Communism!

They want EQUALITY!
You know what that means, GULAGS!"

White Scare nonsense. It's not actual naziism, It's just modern day McCarthyism being espoused when it's called that.

[Aelex]

I'm blaming rightwing politicians for rightwing politics.

When Hitler decided to hang his hat on trade unions, communists, Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and the disabled, it didn't actually prove that they were the root of all evil. It just proved they were convenient targets.

Just because you blame the victim, doesn't mean it is their fault. You have to take some responsibility for your own actions.

(In case it's not clear - 'you' is a general term... let's not pretend I'm singling one person out for opprobrium).

Once more.
Also, care to explain how saying that "multiculturalism isn't working """"just fine"""" " is somehow "blaming the victims"?

[Grave_n_idle]

I agree. This is one solution we should be able to get sport for on both sides of the political spectrum.

I don't know about that. I'm not really on either side of the spectrum, so I can't be taken as a representative for either,

[Aelex]

If all you have is pointless picspam, please don't waste my time.

In a debate where we have been discussing ACTUAL Nazism, mentioning Nazis is not a fallacy.

Implying that everyone who oppose multiculturalism is one, however is.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

I dunno where you are, but I'm living in a country that has been officially multicultural since the 70's and things are going just swimmingly.

What country? Maybe it is working someplaces. But not many places.

Canada. And maybe it's because you're fucking up the implementation, not that multiculturalism is inherently undesirable or unworkable?

[Novus America]

Blaming one group for a problem does not mean the problem does not exist. Their is plenty of blame to go around, but you admitted the status quo is not working.

The 'status quo' is fine. Nazis being Nazis is not a failure of the status quo. We don't negotiate with terrorists.

Neo Nazis are not the only problem. Moreover no the status quo is not fine. We have a huge number of social problems today.

[San Lumen]

If all you have is pointless picspam, please don't waste my time.

In a debate where we have been discussing ACTUAL Nazism, mentioning Nazis is not a fallacy.

"We don't negotiate with terrorists! Stalin! Communism!

They want EQUALITY!
You know what that means, GULAGS!"

White Scare nonsense. It's not actual naziism, It's just modern day McCarthyism being espoused when it's called that.

You didn't address my most recent reply. I suggest you take your viewpoints and run for office with it.

[The East Marches]

Blaming one group for a problem does not mean the problem does not exist. Their is plenty of blame to go around, but you admitted the status quo is not working.

The 'status quo' is fine. Nazis being Nazis is not a failure of the status quo. We don't negotiate with terrorists.

If the status quo were fine, then your side would not be losing elections left, right and center. The problem is historically, right wing populist politics don't become popular unless there is a serious underlying problem. If the Left continues to deny reality, elections will continue to be lost. I'm not referring to just immigration with the status quo comment, I'm talking the system as a whole.

[Frank Zipper]

Canada the most multicultural country? That's a joke.

[The East Marches]

What country? Maybe it is working someplaces. But not many places.

Canada. And maybe it's because you're fucking up the implementation, not that multiculturalism is inherently undesirable or unworkable?

Another Canadian here begs to differ on whether it works.

[Novus America]

Oh no.

Oh, no no no no no.

It is most certainly not working just fine.

I live in Canada, the most multicultural country there is, and I can attest that it simply does not work.

I lived in London, which is arguably the most multicultural city in the world. It works just fine.

The U.K. is not without problems.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

Canada. And maybe it's because you're fucking up the implementation, not that multiculturalism is inherently undesirable or unworkable?

Another Canadian here begs to differ on whether it works.

I guess we should start by defining 'working' before we go any further - what exactly isn't 'working' and what would it look like if it were?

[Novus America]

What country? Maybe it is working someplaces. But not many places.

Canada. And maybe it's because you're fucking up the implementation, not that multiculturalism is inherently undesirable or unworkable?

Canada has plenty of problems, and is more racially and culturally homogeneous than the US.

I suppose it is somewhat subjective but we can all agree things could be working better, and that reform is required.

[San Lumen]

Canada. And maybe it's because you're fucking up the implementation, not that multiculturalism is inherently undesirable or unworkable?

Another Canadian here begs to differ on whether it works.

And please explain how. the left won a massive victory in in 2015 in case you didnt know. They rejected a party that was brining in hatred and anti immigration unlike my country which embraced it because of a stupid election system but thats not the point. Canada rejected politics like what you and Ostraeuropa are espousing. Please give evidence of how multiculturalism and diversity isn't working in Canada.

[Grave_n_idle]

If all you have is pointless picspam, please don't waste my time.

In a debate where we have been discussing ACTUAL Nazism, mentioning Nazis is not a fallacy.

"We don't negotiate with terrorists! Stalin! Communism!

They want EQUALITY!
You know what that means, GULAGS!"

White Scare nonsense. It's not actual naziism, It's just modern day McCarthyism being espoused when it's called that.

'White scare' is one of those buzzwords like 'cultural Marxism'. 'sjw' or 'cuck' that instantly tell you you're about to listen to someone's loud and unsupported opinion, rather than an actual evidenced argument.

There has been an increase in actual Nazi activity, an increase in nationalist Nazi-type activity, and an increase in the kind of politics that is sympathetic TO Nazism. Sometimes, when you talk about Nazis, you're actually taking about Nazis.

On the other hand, while I have mentioned the rise of Nazis and other sympathetic politics - Nazism was an aside, not the focal point. You're hanging your hat on it, I suspect, because you have no real argument - hence the 'everyone is Hitler' nonsense.

[The East Marches]

Another Canadian here begs to differ on whether it works.

I guess we should start by defining 'working' before we go any further - what exactly isn't 'working' and what would it look like if it were?

If things were working, you wouldn't have a meme PM and we wouldn't have a meme President. How is that?

[Scandinavian Nations]

Canada. And maybe it's because you're fucking up the implementation, not that multiculturalism is inherently undesirable or unworkable?

Yes, the problem is with the implementation. Melting pot multiculturalism with a strong core culture works; other implementations don't.

[Grave_n_idle]

I lived in London, which is arguably the most multicultural city in the world. It works just fine.

The U.K. is not without problems.

Absolutely. And, going back to where I came in - that's a problem with the problems, not with multiculturalism.

When someone from a different culture does something illegal, it's the crime that's the problem. Treat the real problem.

[Futrellia]

Moving massive amounts of people from a less developed regions will eventually turn those more developed regions into less developed regions because they take up space, food, money, waste, etc. So no.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

Canada has plenty of problems,

Agreed. But those problems are not being caused by our multiculturalism.

and is more racially and culturally homogeneous than the US.

So?

[Grave_n_idle]

If all you have is pointless picspam, please don't waste my time.

In a debate where we have been discussing ACTUAL Nazism, mentioning Nazis is not a fallacy.

Implying that everyone who oppose multiculturalism is one, however is.

Sure.

And if that ever happens, we can discuss it.

In the meantime, stop wasting my time.