BongBongLand (Philippine) Discussion Thread

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

1. What absolute nonesense, a people can survive without culture, but a culture cannot survive without people, if you teach people different practices then the old practices can die out, why do you think that Westrn Europe doesn't cut off thieves hands anymore? Don't tell me that that was never a cultural practice for Western Europeans, because there are many of sources that clearly show the case. And as such, my point on the independence between race and culture.

You're trying to justify your racism by saying that you aren't being racist by saying Anglicized peoples > Hispanic peoples. That's great.

2. But the thing is we do, Duterte is quite clearly a negative aspect of our society, someone who continues to support him despite his policies is clearly just as guilty as he is, I mean this is a clear question of ethics, if someone supports a murderer as they murder someone are they just as guilty of the murder? To me yes, but obviously your opinion is different.

Our opinions don't matter. Our ethics don't matter. People aren't unintelligent nor are they stupid for supporting who they support. They may be misguided or they may be lying to themselves, among other things, but that doesn't make them stupid. Period. Not even when you support Duterte, a man who we clearly believe isn't serving the best interests of the Filipino. His common supporters still aren't stupid.

3. Oh please, so now just because I'm not poor and live overseas, that makes me some elitist?

Actually, yeah. Being elite in itself isn't a bad thing, it's just who you are. There's a difference between knowing your privilege and abusing it.

At the end of the day what segregates the two of us sure is class, but also our effectivity when it comes to helping the nation, as you said you have less resources than I do, which means you absolutely have helped the poor of the country less than I have,

i.e. you hovering over my head about how more well-funded your efforts are. Nice.

heck just because you were in your LOCAL mayoral elections doesn't mean that you have much of an influence in the political system relative to me, I mean I went to SEVERAL areas and told the people who lived there why they shouldn't vote for Binay or Duterte, not to mention my behind the scenes actions with regard to influencing certain elites, believe it or not my family has political connections and by God did I exhaust all my political connections to try and influence the election, however when Aldub gave their official support, there was nothing I could do.
At the end of the day, I strive to get our country out of poverty, that's why I live outside of it and am gaining as much modern and efficient nation building knowledge as I can, because our country deserves better than what its got. And by God, I will do everything I can to build it up within my lifetime to becoming a top 10 Global economy.

The local election was where I could help, given what little I could do with how much I work. Your political connections (and I'm guessing relation to the elites) proves you are one of the elites. You can't really argue your way out of that.

Blaming Aldub isn't really going to help anybody. Duterte was already popular and with or without the support of their variety show, he still would have won.

Remittances aren't a possible long-term solution to "rid the country of poverty" when social mobility is still institutionally close to impossible. Get back in the Philippines, run for the midterms and make an actual difference. Your "modern" and "efficient" nation building knowledge isn't always going to work in the Philippines and efforts at solving one of the Philippines' thousands of problems are already underway. Neither of us will ever have the resources nor the knowledge to effectively find solutions to everything, so I help in ways that I can despite the limited resources I have (which you clearly liked to point out).

4. You do realise we got the rights to our natural resources in the end right? There's no point in crying over something that was so short lived that it barely if not absolutely had no negative effect on our people.

Bullshit anong walang negative effects. Us signing off our sovereign rights aren't negative effects to you? Even the American believes that was some bad shit they pulled. Don't try and justify this. This is the kind of shit that keeps happening, which explains why Gina Lopez' confirmation is in such dire straits (@AltMalacanang is saying her confirmation is going to be turned down due to mining lobby), among other things.

5. Oh you mean the shelling that SAVED THE LIVES OF FILIPINOS??? I mean no offense, but if you're being tortured by the Abu Sayaff in your home, would you rather be raped and die of a chemical weapon attack from the Government but your house is saved from damage or have your house be riddled with bullets and have all those terrorists dead? I mean it's pretty straightforward, unless you're so hypocritically materialistic that your point on Americans forcing us to trade with them, which was a win for material wealth in the country by the way, would be moot.

The shelling that destroyed centuries of history, the shelling that turned Manila into what you called a shantytown. The "trade" you like to bring up, which is basically American companies stealing our natural resources, wouldn't have benefited shit if it didn't benefit the poorest among us (hint: it didn't). This is what you seem to not understand: GDPs and stocks and what-have-yous aren't felt by the poor. We can understand it, we can even partake in it, but the trickle-down effect isn't being felt because nothing is trickling down. So, your remittances is probably going to help the economy (not in the long term, as I may argue, but that's a different story), but it's not going to help the everyman.

6. Oh really? Show me the figures, how many Filipinos did the Americans kill? Because at worst the Americans killed thousands, while Marcos alone killed TENS OF THOUSANDS. Let's also take into consideration if Marcos gave us free education, healthcare, and sustained economic growth, no? Then you can't compare anything. Also sown the seeds? Are you so ill educated on our history that you don't know that it was Marcos who started the Troubles? Google search the Malisbong Massacre of 1974 because clearly your school needs to teach this stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippin ... erican_War Approximates lie around the mid-high tens of thousands to a hundred thousand Filipinos killed in the war alone. Most facts facts facts believe Marcos killed around 3,200+. I've never heard of this tens of thousands number.

If you think Marcos alone caused the Mindanao conflict, then you may be right in thinking that because his actions did bring about the MNLF - but the "troubles" started way before that, more modern estimates would figure it around the time of the Americans, when they massacred Moros by the thousands, up to the time of the Insular government, when they approved the relocation of Christian Filipinos into South and Southwestern Mindanao in order to displace the still large number of Muslims in the area.

7. I'm simply telling you what I've done and do to alleviate the poor of our nation in response to you calling me a quote end quote 'elitist' because if I were I wouldn't have cared less if Binay won, heck I'm a citizen of Australia and New Zealand, countries that can give me a significantly better standard of living than back home, but you know what? I love the Philippines more than those two countries, DESPITE the fact that I was born in New Zealand, you wanna know why? Because it's in my best interest, I was raised THERE, I studied THERE, I learned to talk, walk, love, and hate THERE, and by God I want to live in comfort THERE, I want the standard of living for everyone there to be the same or even greater than here, and as such I have spent my time and energy to learn the necessary tools to build a modern industrialised state back there.

Nobody right now knows just what the hell you're actually doing to help "build a modern industrialized state" so please enlighten us.

1. Uh no, what I clearly said is that CERTAIN Hispanic CULTURAL PRACTICES in our society is inferior relative to the Anglicised ones left behind by the Americans.
Again, there is no basis there for racism, as I said and will say again, a person can survive without any culture, but cultures can't survive without people. Why do you think slavery still persists? Because there are still cultures out there that accept the PRACTICE as acceptable, this is just fact, not a racist testimony.

2. Uh no, an "Elitist" is someone who does everything in their power to maintain their power and makes others lower than themselves to ensure that status quo. I've clearly been doing the opposite, not that you'd know unless I tell you.

3. Refer to point 2. when discussing me being an "Elitist", as for my connections, so I make a lot of friends, that's not a bad thing, a person has more power the greater connections they have, no matter how poor you are, so long as you know someone you should easily be able to influence anything. Besides, I never gained my connections through wealth, I did what any normal person would do, go out and TALK to people, (Granted the fact that I can engage in polite conversation in 11 different languages was a real ice breaker, but that's an education point as opposed to wealth point.) that's how you make the connections.

4. Oh please, the Government has full control of Philippine resources at the end of the day, I mean I could make the same point about China technically owning millions of hectares of Philippine lands when Makapal ang Mukha Arroyo sold those farmlands during the Dark Ages but again, they are under PHILIPPINE JURISDICTION and can be taken back for whatever lawful reason. Stop whinging about the past and start worrying about actual problems that we face, like the fact that the Chinese OWN PHILIPPINE FARMS RIGHT NOW UNDER A PRO-CHINESE GOVERNMENT, you know the same Government that was elected by "smart" (yes I'm being sarcastic with the word "smart" just in case you were wondering) voters.

5. The shelling was a necessity, if you don't agree, why don't you go to Japan and burn down the Yasukuni Shrine, you know the shrine dedicated to the Japanese soldiers that killed us, bombed Manila despite the clearly visible sign saying OPEN CITY, and raped and plundered wherever they went. At the end of the day, if the Japanese left Manila as an Open City like what the Americans did, there would have been NO SHELLING, so get over it because otherwise your anger is misguided.

6. The numbers from the Philippine American War include figures from those who died from disease and famine, the tens of thousands that I'm talking about from the Marcos era include those who were those killed in starvation from proxy famines, and essentially those who are killed from the oh so lovely war in the south that Marcos STARTED.

7. It's called "STUDYING", I mean no offense, but I didn't choose Economics and Law for no reason, I see the benefits of implementing certain policies from overseas nations that are relatively more successful than us in the local scene. Also what have YOU contributed? Working in a local election and simply trying to survive with a relatively low wage does not an alleviation of poverty for our fellow citizens make... Well, at-least relative to the actions of the overseas community, at the end of the day the OFWs are called "BAYANI" for a reason.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

What do y'all think of Filipino Americans

Meh, just relatively better at English pronunciation with the American diction relative to someone from the Philippine countryside.

[Pasong Tirad]

1. Uh no, what I clearly said is that CERTAIN Hispanic CULTURAL PRACTICES in our society is inferior relative to the Anglicised ones left behind by the Americans.
Again, there is no basis there for racism, as I said and will say again, a person can survive without any culture, but cultures can't survive without people. Why do you think slavery still persists? Because there are still cultures out there that accept the PRACTICE as acceptable, this is just fact, not a racist testimony.

There is nothing there even resembling fact. You're talking about how certain cultural practices are inferior and this isn't your fault it's because of your upbringing, being raised Western-minded. They're not inferior, they're just different. Slavery persists not because of culture it's because people are dicks. It's not a cultural thing. We can go into an even deeper argument about what constitutes slavery, but that would be beside the point - which is that you are trying to justify your racism.

2. Uh no, an "Elitist" is someone who does everything in their power to maintain their power and makes others lower than themselves to ensure that status quo. I've clearly been doing the opposite, not that you'd know unless I tell you.

3. Refer to point 2. when discussing me being an "Elitist", as for my connections, so I make a lot of friends, that's not a bad thing, a person has more power the greater connections they have, no matter how poor you are, so long as you know someone you should easily be able to influence anything. Besides, I never gained my connections through wealth, I did what any normal person would do, go out and TALK to people, (Granted the fact that I can engage in polite conversation in 11 different languages was a real ice breaker, but that's an education point as opposed to wealth point.) that's how you make the connections.

You're literally attempting to justify your "superiority" to me by claiming it's all about making connections. You're right, of course, but your wealthy upbringing has probably blinded you to the fact that there are certain things the poor can't afford - one of them is spending the time learning 11 different languages (okay wow ha in fairness sa'yo) and spending the time trying to make connections instead of working. You are born of privilege and your elitism is seeping out subconsciously. Recognize it, fight against it.

4. Oh please, the Government has full control of Philippine resources at the end of the day, I mean I could make the same point about China technically owning millions of hectares of Philippine lands when Makapal ang Mukha Arroyo sold those farmlands during the Dark Ages but again, they are under PHILIPPINE JURISDICTION and can be taken back for whatever lawful reason.

That was in the constitution after the war. I don't know if it's still there now, I may have missed it, but historically speaking, America had equal control of our natural resources until a new constitution superseded the post-war one.

Stop whinging about the past and start worrying about actual problems that we face, like the fact that the Chinese OWN PHILIPPINE FARMS RIGHT NOW UNDER A PRO-CHINESE GOVERNMENT, you know the same Government that was elected by "smart" (yes I'm being sarcastic with the word "smart" just in case you were wondering) voters.

It's funny how you're literally using pro-Marcos, historical revisionist arguments to justify your own lack of knowledge over our history. Yeah, let's forget arguing about our history because bad shit is happening right now. Bad shit is happening right now because of a failure to learn from our history, buddy.

And thanks for assuming I wouldn't understand sarcasm. Very friendly of you.

5. The shelling was a necessity, if you don't agree, why don't you go to Japan and burn down the Yasukuni Shrine, you know the shrine dedicated to the Japanese soldiers that killed us, bombed Manila despite the clearly visible sign saying OPEN CITY, and raped and plundered wherever they went. At the end of the day, if the Japanese left Manila as an Open City like what the Americans did, there would have been NO SHELLING, so get over it because otherwise your anger is misguided.

Their people died because of a dark period of their history, of course they should fucking remember it. Does that justify what they did? No, of course not - neither does it justify shelling Manila into oblivion. No, I don't agree it was a necessity just like how I don't think nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a necessity.

6. The numbers from the Philippine American War include figures from those who died from disease and famine, the tens of thousands that I'm talking about from the Marcos era include those who were those killed in starvation from proxy famines, and essentially those who are killed from the oh so lovely war in the south that Marcos STARTED.

Oh then how do you justify those famines as being part of the Marcos' body count, but the disease and famine caused by the war (caused by the Americans you're so in love with you should just marry) you're just more than happy to shrug off as having an inconclusive connection? Utter nonsense - like this argument.

7. It's called "STUDYING", I mean no offense, but I didn't choose Economics and Law for no reason, I see the benefits of implementing certain policies from overseas nations that are relatively more successful than us in the local scene. Also what have YOU contributed? Working in a local election and simply trying to survive with a relatively low wage does not an alleviation of poverty for our fellow citizens make... Well, at-least relative to the actions of the overseas community, at the end of the day the OFWs are called "BAYANI" for a reason.

Aba pre pasensya na pero nagkukulang ata ako ngayon sa kakayahang mag-ambag para sa kinabukasan natin. Dalawa pinapasukan kong trabaho araw-araw tapos halos di ko pa mabayaran kuryente ko. Ang galing mong gamiting ang privilege mo para isipin na hindi ko alam ibig sabihin (at kayang ma-ambag) ng pag-aaral and you're even insinuating that I haven't done shit. I've done all I can and more despite of my economic situation. Because of an inability to influence on a national level, I start small in the grassroots, in my city. Pareho pinaglalabanan natin pero ang problema dito hindi ako naaapektuhan ng colonial mentality ko at pagiging elitista ko (oo, na-re-recognize ko ang pagiging elitista ko intellectually, kasi nakapag-aral ako nang matino sa isang magandang unibersidad). Ito kasi ang hindi mo maintindihan: at the end of the day, this fight is not about you and it will never be about you. It is about the people around you, it is about the communities that directly benefit from what you do. Your "studying" may be able to influence but it won't do shit because you clearly aren't a public intellectual nor do I see how you will be able to translate your asinine arguments into effective change, policy-wise, community-wise, grassroots-wise. PIgil-pigilan mo ako sa pagiging elitista mo, ang tunay na bayani hindi naniniwalang bayani siya (as you're clearly subtly insinuating that you believe yourself to be "heroic" and "sacrificing" for our country). Ang Nanay at Tita ko sa Middle East, bayani. Ang Tito, Tita at pinsan ko sa California, sila ang bayani. Ang tito kong kinulong for three months dahil sa kawalan ng hustisya sa Qatar, siya ang bayani. Heroes should be made of sterner stuff.

[Victoriala II]

Progressive/Regressive distinction > Superior/Inferior distinction

Get on my level

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

1. Uh no, what I clearly said is that CERTAIN Hispanic CULTURAL PRACTICES in our society is inferior relative to the Anglicised ones left behind by the Americans.
Again, there is no basis there for racism, as I said and will say again, a person can survive without any culture, but cultures can't survive without people. Why do you think slavery still persists? Because there are still cultures out there that accept the PRACTICE as acceptable, this is just fact, not a racist testimony.

There is nothing there even resembling fact. You're talking about how certain cultural practices are inferior and this isn't your fault it's because of your upbringing, being raised Western-minded. They're not inferior, they're just different. Slavery persists not because of culture it's because people are dicks. It's not a cultural thing. We can go into an even deeper argument about what constitutes slavery, but that would be beside the point - which is that you are trying to justify your racism.

2. Uh no, an "Elitist" is someone who does everything in their power to maintain their power and makes others lower than themselves to ensure that status quo. I've clearly been doing the opposite, not that you'd know unless I tell you.

3. Refer to point 2. when discussing me being an "Elitist", as for my connections, so I make a lot of friends, that's not a bad thing, a person has more power the greater connections they have, no matter how poor you are, so long as you know someone you should easily be able to influence anything. Besides, I never gained my connections through wealth, I did what any normal person would do, go out and TALK to people, (Granted the fact that I can engage in polite conversation in 11 different languages was a real ice breaker, but that's an education point as opposed to wealth point.) that's how you make the connections.

You're literally attempting to justify your "superiority" to me by claiming it's all about making connections. You're right, of course, but your wealthy upbringing has probably blinded you to the fact that there are certain things the poor can't afford - one of them is spending the time learning 11 different languages (okay wow ha in fairness sa'yo) and spending the time trying to make connections instead of working. You are born of privilege and your elitism is seeping out subconsciously. Recognize it, fight against it.

4. Oh please, the Government has full control of Philippine resources at the end of the day, I mean I could make the same point about China technically owning millions of hectares of Philippine lands when Makapal ang Mukha Arroyo sold those farmlands during the Dark Ages but again, they are under PHILIPPINE JURISDICTION and can be taken back for whatever lawful reason.

That was in the constitution after the war. I don't know if it's still there now, I may have missed it, but historically speaking, America had equal control of our natural resources until a new constitution superseded the post-war one.

Stop whinging about the past and start worrying about actual problems that we face, like the fact that the Chinese OWN PHILIPPINE FARMS RIGHT NOW UNDER A PRO-CHINESE GOVERNMENT, you know the same Government that was elected by "smart" (yes I'm being sarcastic with the word "smart" just in case you were wondering) voters.

It's funny how you're literally using pro-Marcos, historical revisionist arguments to justify your own lack of knowledge over our history. Yeah, let's forget arguing about our history because bad shit is happening right now. Bad shit is happening right now because of a failure to learn from our history, buddy.

And thanks for assuming I wouldn't understand sarcasm. Very friendly of you.

5. The shelling was a necessity, if you don't agree, why don't you go to Japan and burn down the Yasukuni Shrine, you know the shrine dedicated to the Japanese soldiers that killed us, bombed Manila despite the clearly visible sign saying OPEN CITY, and raped and plundered wherever they went. At the end of the day, if the Japanese left Manila as an Open City like what the Americans did, there would have been NO SHELLING, so get over it because otherwise your anger is misguided.

Their people died because of a dark period of their history, of course they should fucking remember it. Does that justify what they did? No, of course not - neither does it justify shelling Manila into oblivion. No, I don't agree it was a necessity just like how I don't think nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a necessity.

6. The numbers from the Philippine American War include figures from those who died from disease and famine, the tens of thousands that I'm talking about from the Marcos era include those who were those killed in starvation from proxy famines, and essentially those who are killed from the oh so lovely war in the south that Marcos STARTED.

Oh then how do you justify those famines as being part of the Marcos' body count, but the disease and famine caused by the war (caused by the Americans you're so in love with you should just marry) you're just more than happy to shrug off as having an inconclusive connection? Utter nonsense - like this argument.

7. It's called "STUDYING", I mean no offense, but I didn't choose Economics and Law for no reason, I see the benefits of implementing certain policies from overseas nations that are relatively more successful than us in the local scene. Also what have YOU contributed? Working in a local election and simply trying to survive with a relatively low wage does not an alleviation of poverty for our fellow citizens make... Well, at-least relative to the actions of the overseas community, at the end of the day the OFWs are called "BAYANI" for a reason.

Aba pre pasensya na pero nagkukulang ata ako ngayon sa kakayahang mag-ambag para sa kinabukasan natin. Dalawa pinapasukan kong trabaho araw-araw tapos halos di ko pa mabayaran kuryente ko. Ang galing mong gamiting ang privilege mo para isipin na hindi ko alam ibig sabihin (at kayang ma-ambag) ng pag-aaral and you're even insinuating that I haven't done shit. I've done all I can and more despite of my economic situation. Because of an inability to influence on a national level, I start small in the grassroots, in my city. Pareho pinaglalabanan natin pero ang problema dito hindi ako naaapektuhan ng colonial mentality ko at pagiging elitista ko (oo, na-re-recognize ko ang pagiging elitista ko intellectually, kasi nakapag-aral ako nang matino sa isang magandang unibersidad). Ito kasi ang hindi mo maintindihan: at the end of the day, this fight is not about you and it will never be about you. It is about the people around you, it is about the communities that directly benefit from what you do. Your "studying" may be able to influence but it won't do shit because you clearly aren't a public intellectual nor do I see how you will be able to translate your asinine arguments into effective change, policy-wise, community-wise, grassroots-wise. PIgil-pigilan mo ako sa pagiging elitista mo, ang tunay na bayani hindi naniniwalang bayani siya (as you're clearly subtly insinuating that you believe yourself to be "heroic" and "sacrificing" for our country). Ang Nanay at Tita ko sa Middle East, bayani. Ang Tito, Tita at pinsan ko sa California, sila ang bayani. Ang tito kong kinulong for three months dahil sa kawalan ng hustisya sa Qatar, siya ang bayani. Heroes should be made of sterner stuff.

1. What on Earth are you talking about? Do you know what makes up culture? The PRACTICES WITHIN IT, a culture is made up of actions, whether it be a "Cooking" culture which enjoys making food, a "Cleanliness" culture that teaches the importance of hygiene, or a "Rape" culture which is pretty self explanatory, the point is, in the same sense national cultures all have their strengths and weaknesses, however since they're cultures which is essentially made up of actions, they can easily be changed as-well, If the Hispanic culture taught us to be industrious for fun like the German or Japanese culture then great, but that practice is only a small aspect of the culture in general, and as such it can change depending on the generation. Slavery still exists not just because people can be heartless monsters, but because the cultures that they have, have ensured they morph into the heartless monsters that they are, as such cultural practices transcend borders entirely and have nothing to with race at all.

2. Working is the best way to make connections, I didn't learn how to speak all 11 languages through actually studying (save for Tagalog and English which was taught in school), I learned them through actually talking to the people who spoke them, and asking them to teach me just a little bit which over the years has become a very handy way for me to make foreign connections. And no, it had nothing to do with my family wealth, rather it was as a result of foreign tourists just visiting the country somehow having the interest in talking to a young native, nothing more.

3. Okay historically speaking perhaps that's the case, but then again historically speaking so did Japan, yet do you here me complain about that? If you're willing to complain about the States, complain about everyone else too, whether it be the Americans, the Japanese, the Polynesians, the Arabs, the Spanish and heck even the Malays, because remember, the original people here were the Aeta, so obviously those land grabbing Malays have to pay right? Oh wait a second.... Technically we're all Malay aren't we? O-oh....

4. What do you mean "pro-Marcos" have you not been listening to all my posts on The Philippine Thread like EVER??? Where on Earth did I write a pro-Marcos statement? And what do you mean lack of knowledge on our history? Oh please, if I can quote the sections and Articles of the 1987 Constitution ng Pang-limang Republika ng Pilipinas, I have more than enough knowledge of our history, heck my knowledge of history goes as far out as most of the British Empire thank you very much.

5. If it were up to me Kyoto and Tokyo would have been nuked and the entire Japanese archipelago handed over to the Soviets in exchange for Eastern Europe, the Japanese never deserved the prosperity a capitalist society gains, (i.e. being the third largest economy in the World) not after what they did to the rest of Asia, especially to the Philippines, but I digress, the fact of the matter is the shelling was necessary, however obviously since you weren't there and I had grand parents who were, I'll take their word over yours which was that they saw it as a necessary evil in order to save the lives of fellow starving and dying Filipinos.

6. What are you talking about? What the Americans did to atone for the War was stated earlier, free healthcare, education, welfare, trade preference, economic protection and development, infrastructural progress, and the increasing of the Philippine population while ensuring the highest standard of living in the entire region if not the entire Continent at the time. Marcos did NO SUCH THING.

7. Eh ano naman ang gusto mong gawin ko? Umuwi at ibaba ang kabuhayan ko patag sa nananarasan mo ngayon? Hindi mo ba narinig ang kasibihan na "Ang taong hindi kayang tulungan ang sirili niya, hindi kayang tulungan ang iba"? Ang katotothanan ay simple lang, mahirap ang bansa natin ngayon kasi kulang ang mga taong may alam pagdating sa iba't-ibang aspekto ng kabuhayan sa bansa. Ang Gobyerno natin kurakot, ang karamihan sa atin pauto-uto, at yung mayroon mga alam at may concensiya, nasa abroad at bawal lumaban para sa karapatan ng mga kababayan nila na hindi makukuha ang pangalang "traydor" o "imperialista" katulad nalang ng nakuha ni Poe noong tumakbo siya bilang Presidente. Kaya pasensiya na na kinailangan kong sabihin kung anong mga ginagawa ng mga OFW, kasi madaming mga taong hindi pa rin sigurado na "bayani" nga sila, at eto ay isang paalala lang partikular na kung tinitignan mo ang isang kababayan mo na nasa abroad bilang isang "elista" purkit ginagawa nila lahat ang makakaya nila para tulungan ang bansa, kahit na hindi nilang kailangang gawin.

[Pasong Tirad]

1. What on Earth are you talking about? Do you know what makes up culture? The PRACTICES WITHIN IT, a culture is made up of actions, whether it be a "Cooking" culture which enjoys making food, a "Cleanliness" culture that teaches the importance of hygiene, or a "Rape" culture which is pretty self explanatory, the point is, in the same sense national cultures all have their strengths and weaknesses, however since they're cultures which is essentially made up of actions, they can easily be changed as-well, If the Hispanic culture taught us to be industrious for fun like the German or Japanese culture then great, but that practice is only a small aspect of the culture in general, and as such it can change depending on the generation. Slavery still exists not just because people can be heartless monsters, but because the cultures that they have, have ensured they morph into the heartless monsters that they are, as such cultural practices transcend borders entirely and have nothing to with race at all.

You're missing the point completely, as I've been saying countless times but you seem to be covering your ears. Loving cooking, cleaning and upholding rape culture transcends culture, but you're still trying to argue about how certain cultures are inferior to others. Slavery still exists because people are monsters period. This isn't a cultural thing. Landowners/warlords still have tenant-slaves and that is as much slavery as it is slavery to take somebody's passport once they become a migrant worker. No culture is involved in slavery. It's not because Arabs as a "culture" uphold it, it's because people are dicks. It's not because Filipinos love enslaving people (hint: we don't), it's because people are assholes. Cultures are not inferior to one another because there is no basis to equate whether or not one culture is better than another.

2. Working is the best way to make connections, I didn't learn how to speak all 11 languages through actually studying (save for Tagalog and English which was taught in school), I learned them through actually talking to the people who spoke them, and asking them to teach me just a little bit which over the years has become a very handy way for me to make foreign connections. And no, it had nothing to do with my family wealth, rather it was as a result of foreign tourists just visiting the country somehow having the interest in talking to a young native, nothing more.

Okay? Tapos?

3. Okay historically speaking perhaps that's the case, but then again historically speaking so did Japan, yet do you here me complain about that? If you're willing to complain about the States, complain about everyone else too, whether it be the Americans, the Japanese, the Polynesians, the Arabs, the Spanish and heck even the Malays, because remember, the original people here were the Aeta, so obviously those land grabbing Malays have to pay right? Oh wait a second.... Technically we're all Malay aren't we? O-oh....

I complain about everything. Like how this argument makes no goddamn sense. Migration is one thing, invading a country and colonizing it is another.

4. What do you mean "pro-Marcos" have you not been listening to all my posts on The Philippine Thread like EVER??? Where on Earth did I write a pro-Marcos statement? And what do you mean lack of knowledge on our history? Oh please, if I can quote the sections and Articles of the 1987 Constitution ng Pang-limang Republika ng Pilipinas, I have more than enough knowledge of our history, heck my knowledge of history goes as far out as most of the British Empire thank you very much.

You're missing the point. You use pro-Marcos arguments of "moving on" and "stop wasting time dwelling in the past" as a way to justify not having to argue about our history. Don't be like them.

5. If it were up to me Kyoto and Tokyo would have been nuked and the entire Japanese archipelago handed over to the Soviets in exchange for Eastern Europe, the Japanese never deserved the prosperity a capitalist society gains, (i.e. being the third largest economy in the World) not after what they did to the rest of Asia, especially to the Philippines, but I digress, the fact of the matter is the shelling was necessary, however obviously since you weren't there and I had grand parents who were, I'll take their word over yours which was that they saw it as a necessary evil in order to save the lives of fellow starving and dying Filipinos.

Thank you for once again proving just how much you believe the West is superior to the rest of the world. I had grandparents there too, thank you very much. I'll take their word as well. It was unnecessary and caused the deaths of several ancestors, not to mention plunging Manila into the shantytown it is today (something you've pointed out, but fail to see America's connection to it because of your colonial mentality)

6. What are you talking about? What the Americans did to atone for the War was stated earlier, free healthcare, education, welfare, trade preference, economic protection and development, infrastructural progress, and the increasing of the Philippine population while ensuring the highest standard of living in the entire region if not the entire Continent at the time. Marcos did NO SUCH THING.

Whether or not they atoned (they did not) doesn't change the fact that the killings happened. Try telling the dead whether or not they forgive their killers. The Americans killed more than Marcos did period. Whether or not the Philippines progressed is beside the point if it's done under a foundation of blood and bones.

7. Eh ano naman ang gusto mong gawin ko? Umuwi at ibaba ang kabuhayan ko patag sa nananarasan mo ngayon? Hindi mo ba narinig ang kasibihan na "Ang taong hindi kayang tulungan ang sirili niya, hindi kayang tulungan ang iba"? Ang katotothanan ay simple lang, mahirap ang bansa natin ngayon kasi kulang ang mga taong may alam pagdating sa iba't-ibang aspekto ng kabuhayan sa bansa. Ang Gobyerno natin kurakot, ang karamihan sa atin pauto-uto, at yung mayroon mga alam at may concensiya, nasa abroad at bawal lumaban para sa karapatan ng mga kababayan nila na hindi makukuha ang pangalang "traydor" o "imperialista" katulad nalang ng nakuha ni Poe noong tumakbo siya bilang Presidente. Kaya pasensiya na na kinailangan kong sabihin kung anong mga ginagawa ng mga OFW, kasi madaming mga taong hindi pa rin sigurado na "bayani" nga sila, at eto ay isang paalala lang partikular na kung tinitignan mo ang isang kababayan mo na nasa abroad bilang isang "elista" purkit ginagawa nila lahat ang makakaya nila para tulungan ang bansa, kahit na hindi nilang kailangang gawin.

Oh I would love to see you try and live the kind of life I'm living. Paycheck to paycheck, charging my phone and laptop at work kasi mahal kuryente, drinking most of my water for the day from the free water sa water cooler, nag-wa-one-two-three pag kulang sa pera (which is almost all the time), trabaho from 9-5 tapos rehearsals sa gabi. But this isn't about me, kaya heto: 1) brad, walang naniniwala na kaya mong maging mahirap but if that's what it takes for you to see yourself in front of the mirror eh di sige i-try mo, 2) hindi simple ang katotohanan, pero black and white siguro siya sa paningin mo, 3) kurakot ang gobyerno, hindi karamihan uto-uto iba lang ang priorities nila araw-araw di katulad mo, 4) You seem to believe that everybody who has half a brain and a conscience lives abroad. That shit is peak elitist, privileged thinking right there, 5) alam naming lahat ginagawa ng OFW we don't need a lesson especially from you, 6) You still believe that everything you're doing is for the benefit of the nation. It's not.

[Kubra]

So wait a minute is the point of disputation here whether or not the spaniards are shitty colonial overlords or not?

[Victoriala II]

So wait a minute is the point of disputation here whether or not the spaniards are shitty colonial overlords or not?

ain't it grand

[Pasong Tirad]

So wait a minute is the point of disputation here whether or not the spaniards are shitty colonial overlords or not?

It's all getting lost in the argument, but my main point is that there's no way to gauge or even prove that "Anglicized/American" culture > "Hispanicized" culture.

[Stormwrath]

Progressive/Regressive distinction > Superior/Inferior distinction

Get on my level

Moral and altruistic/Greedy and capitalist

Done.

[Victoriala II]

Progressive/Regressive distinction > Superior/Inferior distinction

Get on my level

Moral and altruistic/Greedy and capitalist

Done.

woa dud

[Vulkata II]

Something tells me that it was a good choice to stay dead for a while.

Still the same topic for two weeks?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Meanwhile, Fillipinos are leaving the Phillipines to come to Canada. Why fight this? This is good for them, and good for Canada!

[Victoriala II]

Meanwhile, Fillipinos are leaving the Phillipines to come to Canada. Why fight this? This is good for them, and good for Canada!

Dump Trudeau for someone else

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

1. What on Earth are you talking about? Do you know what makes up culture? The PRACTICES WITHIN IT, a culture is made up of actions, whether it be a "Cooking" culture which enjoys making food, a "Cleanliness" culture that teaches the importance of hygiene, or a "Rape" culture which is pretty self explanatory, the point is, in the same sense national cultures all have their strengths and weaknesses, however since they're cultures which is essentially made up of actions, they can easily be changed as-well, If the Hispanic culture taught us to be industrious for fun like the German or Japanese culture then great, but that practice is only a small aspect of the culture in general, and as such it can change depending on the generation. Slavery still exists not just because people can be heartless monsters, but because the cultures that they have, have ensured they morph into the heartless monsters that they are, as such cultural practices transcend borders entirely and have nothing to with race at all.

You're missing the point completely, as I've been saying countless times but you seem to be covering your ears. Loving cooking, cleaning and upholding rape culture transcends culture, but you're still trying to argue about how certain cultures are inferior to others. Slavery still exists because people are monsters period. This isn't a cultural thing. Landowners/warlords still have tenant-slaves and that is as much slavery as it is slavery to take somebody's passport once they become a migrant worker. No culture is involved in slavery. It's not because Arabs as a "culture" uphold it, it's because people are dicks. It's not because Filipinos love enslaving people (hint: we don't), it's because people are assholes. Cultures are not inferior to one another because there is no basis to equate whether or not one culture is better than another.

2. Working is the best way to make connections, I didn't learn how to speak all 11 languages through actually studying (save for Tagalog and English which was taught in school), I learned them through actually talking to the people who spoke them, and asking them to teach me just a little bit which over the years has become a very handy way for me to make foreign connections. And no, it had nothing to do with my family wealth, rather it was as a result of foreign tourists just visiting the country somehow having the interest in talking to a young native, nothing more.

Okay? Tapos?

3. Okay historically speaking perhaps that's the case, but then again historically speaking so did Japan, yet do you here me complain about that? If you're willing to complain about the States, complain about everyone else too, whether it be the Americans, the Japanese, the Polynesians, the Arabs, the Spanish and heck even the Malays, because remember, the original people here were the Aeta, so obviously those land grabbing Malays have to pay right? Oh wait a second.... Technically we're all Malay aren't we? O-oh....

I complain about everything. Like how this argument makes no goddamn sense. Migration is one thing, invading a country and colonizing it is another.

4. What do you mean "pro-Marcos" have you not been listening to all my posts on The Philippine Thread like EVER??? Where on Earth did I write a pro-Marcos statement? And what do you mean lack of knowledge on our history? Oh please, if I can quote the sections and Articles of the 1987 Constitution ng Pang-limang Republika ng Pilipinas, I have more than enough knowledge of our history, heck my knowledge of history goes as far out as most of the British Empire thank you very much.

You're missing the point. You use pro-Marcos arguments of "moving on" and "stop wasting time dwelling in the past" as a way to justify not having to argue about our history. Don't be like them.

5. If it were up to me Kyoto and Tokyo would have been nuked and the entire Japanese archipelago handed over to the Soviets in exchange for Eastern Europe, the Japanese never deserved the prosperity a capitalist society gains, (i.e. being the third largest economy in the World) not after what they did to the rest of Asia, especially to the Philippines, but I digress, the fact of the matter is the shelling was necessary, however obviously since you weren't there and I had grand parents who were, I'll take their word over yours which was that they saw it as a necessary evil in order to save the lives of fellow starving and dying Filipinos.

Thank you for once again proving just how much you believe the West is superior to the rest of the world. I had grandparents there too, thank you very much. I'll take their word as well. It was unnecessary and caused the deaths of several ancestors, not to mention plunging Manila into the shantytown it is today (something you've pointed out, but fail to see America's connection to it because of your colonial mentality)

6. What are you talking about? What the Americans did to atone for the War was stated earlier, free healthcare, education, welfare, trade preference, economic protection and development, infrastructural progress, and the increasing of the Philippine population while ensuring the highest standard of living in the entire region if not the entire Continent at the time. Marcos did NO SUCH THING.

Whether or not they atoned (they did not) doesn't change the fact that the killings happened. Try telling the dead whether or not they forgive their killers. The Americans killed more than Marcos did period. Whether or not the Philippines progressed is beside the point if it's done under a foundation of blood and bones.

7. Eh ano naman ang gusto mong gawin ko? Umuwi at ibaba ang kabuhayan ko patag sa nananarasan mo ngayon? Hindi mo ba narinig ang kasibihan na "Ang taong hindi kayang tulungan ang sirili niya, hindi kayang tulungan ang iba"? Ang katotothanan ay simple lang, mahirap ang bansa natin ngayon kasi kulang ang mga taong may alam pagdating sa iba't-ibang aspekto ng kabuhayan sa bansa. Ang Gobyerno natin kurakot, ang karamihan sa atin pauto-uto, at yung mayroon mga alam at may concensiya, nasa abroad at bawal lumaban para sa karapatan ng mga kababayan nila na hindi makukuha ang pangalang "traydor" o "imperialista" katulad nalang ng nakuha ni Poe noong tumakbo siya bilang Presidente. Kaya pasensiya na na kinailangan kong sabihin kung anong mga ginagawa ng mga OFW, kasi madaming mga taong hindi pa rin sigurado na "bayani" nga sila, at eto ay isang paalala lang partikular na kung tinitignan mo ang isang kababayan mo na nasa abroad bilang isang "elista" purkit ginagawa nila lahat ang makakaya nila para tulungan ang bansa, kahit na hindi nilang kailangang gawin.

Oh I would love to see you try and live the kind of life I'm living. Paycheck to paycheck, charging my phone and laptop at work kasi mahal kuryente, drinking most of my water for the day from the free water sa water cooler, nag-wa-one-two-three pag kulang sa pera (which is almost all the time), trabaho from 9-5 tapos rehearsals sa gabi. But this isn't about me, kaya heto: 1) brad, walang naniniwala na kaya mong maging mahirap but if that's what it takes for you to see yourself in front of the mirror eh di sige i-try mo, 2) hindi simple ang katotohanan, pero black and white siguro siya sa paningin mo, 3) kurakot ang gobyerno, hindi karamihan uto-uto iba lang ang priorities nila araw-araw di katulad mo, 4) You seem to believe that everybody who has half a brain and a conscience lives abroad. That shit is peak elitist, privileged thinking right there, 5) alam naming lahat ginagawa ng OFW we don't need a lesson especially from you, 6) You still believe that everything you're doing is for the benefit of the nation. It's not.

1. And again, you fail to take into consideration that cultures are a human invention that transcends race all together, culture is squarely made up of practices, some good, but some bad, and at the end of the day all cultures have or have had inferior cultural practices, whether it be sacrificing babies to gods, allowing slavery, or just generally institutionalising racism, it is the job of those who know of more superior practices to eliminate these practices by teaching them what is the right thing to do, whether it be teaching some Arabian camel herder to be more respectful to women, or some middle aged white female school teacher in Kentucky to be more understanding of the economic situation of African Americans. And as such, certain practices that the Hispanics left us such as the Hacienda system are practices that you continually support by saying that eliminating it is essentially racist, I mean after all it's Filipino now.

2. The point is talk to people and you learn stuff.

3. Migration? The Spanish didn't migrate there, yet somehow it's racist to try and eliminate certain inferior cultural practices left behind because of... What was it again? Oh yeah, somehow you believing that Culture = Race.

4. What are you talking about? There's a difference between dwelling in the past and worrying about the future by thinking of solutions in the present.

5. And if your grandparents somehow stopped the invasion of the whole Japanese army, I'd believe them too, but whoopsie daisy.

6. Said hypocritically, by the guy who's debating with me on ensuring the maintenance of inferior cultural practices left behind to us by an Empire that built our state out of blood, sweat, and bones.

7. At the end of the day my point is simple, if you think I'm an elitist, think again, because as I've pointed out, I have done more to alleviate the suffering of our citizens nationwide by simply visiting for a month, than you have done by living there your whole life.

[Stormwrath]

Meanwhile, Fillipinos are leaving the Phillipines to come to Canada. Why fight this? This is good for them, and good for Canada!

No one's complaining that Canada's siphoning our workers, lol.

[Victoriala II]

7. At the end of the day my point is simple, if you think I'm an elitist, think again, because as I've pointed out, I have done more to alleviate the suffering of our citizens nationwide by simply visiting for a month, than you have done by living there your whole life.

You just defeated your own point by standing on your high horse there bud

[Pasong Tirad]

1. And again, you fail to take into consideration that cultures are a human invention that transcends race all together, culture is squarely made up of practices, some good, but some bad, and at the end of the day all cultures have or have had inferior cultural practices, whether it be sacrificing babies to gods, allowing slavery, or just generally institutionalising racism, it is the job of those who know of more superior practices to eliminate these practices by teaching them what is the right thing to do, whether it be teaching some Arabian camel herder to be more respectful to women, or some middle aged white female school teacher in Kentucky to be more understanding of the economic situation of African Americans. And as such, certain practices that the Hispanics left us such as the Hacienda system are practices that you continually support by saying that eliminating it is essentially racist, I mean after all it's Filipino now.

You've literally skirted around what I said. There's no way to tell whether or not which "cultural practices" are inferior and which are "superior." You're stuck in this colonial bubble that "America good, Spain baaad." Proving it even more by talking about how much I apparently love turning farmhands into slaves (never did, you can try and look for when I said it too). Culture changes with time, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. Trying to shove your "superior cultural practices" down other peoples throats isn't going to solve anything.

2. The point is talk to people and you learn stuff.

So ano? I don't talk?

3. Migration? The Spanish didn't migrate there, yet somehow it's racist to try and eliminate certain inferior cultural practices left behind because of... What was it again? Oh yeah, somehow you believing that Culture = Race.

That's literally my point - that you once again seem to miss due to your fanciful ability to cherry-pick. The Spanish didn't migrate, they colonized. The first Malays and Aeta migrated, the Spanish did not.

4. What are you talking about? There's a difference between dwelling in the past and worrying about the future by thinking of solutions in the present.

That's literally what BBM said. Thanks for proving my point.

5. And if your grandparents somehow stopped the invasion of the whole Japanese army, I'd believe them too, but whoopsie daisy.

Did yours?

6. Said hypocritically, by the guy who's debating with me on ensuring the maintenance of inferior cultural practices left behind to us by an Empire that built our state out of blood, sweat, and bones.

An empire that build our state out of blood ,sweat, and bones? Are you talking about the Spanish? Or the Americans? Or no no are you talking about the Japanese?

7. At the end of the day my point is simple, if you think I'm an elitist, think again, because as I've pointed out, I have done more to alleviate the suffering of our citizens nationwide by simply visiting for a month, than you have done by living there your whole life.

Vic replied to this best, I think.

[Devernia]

Meanwhile, Fillipinos are leaving the Phillipines to come to Canada. Why fight this? This is good for them, and good for Canada!

Devernite emigration policy in a nutshell.

[Pasong Tirad]

Meanwhile, Fillipinos are leaving the Phillipines to come to Canada. Why fight this? This is good for them, and good for Canada!

No one's complaining that Canada's siphoning our workers, lol.

How's our unemployment rate na ba? Is it higher recently or mas maganda lang ba talaga mag-trabaho sa Trudeauland?

[Reatra]

So how's the maoist insurgency going on over there guys?

[Pasong Tirad]

So how's the maoist insurgency going on over there guys?

Same old for the past forty years, I think. They're either going to gain more legitimacy under Duterte and the leftist members of his cabinet (and Duterte telling the founder of the modern CPP-NPA-NDF to come home), or Duterte's going to turn a full 180 and use them as scapegoats if the popularity of his drug war (which is connected to his popularity) wanes.

[Kubra]

So how's the maoist insurgency going on over there guys?

It's much ado about nothing
The CPP is more and more shifting towards its electoral fronts and orgs as membership in the NPA proper continues to dwindle.

[Victoriala II]

So how's the maoist insurgency going on over there guys?

It's much ado about nothing
The CPP is more and more shifting towards its electoral fronts and orgs as membership in the NPA proper continues to dwindle.

Good on them. Here's hoping the reaffirmists die off so we wouldn't deal with much bullshit. Worst case scenario would be them cucking for neolibs like the cpusa.

[Kubra]

It's much ado about nothing
The CPP is more and more shifting towards its electoral fronts and orgs as membership in the NPA proper continues to dwindle.

Good on them. Here's hoping the reaffirmists die off so we wouldn't deal with much bullshit. Worst case scenario would be them cucking for neolibs like the cpusa.

naw the reason they'd switch is because the size of the NDF and affiliate orgs and parties is nothing to laugh at when taken as a whole, under a more pluralistic constitution they'd be a real electoral force.
Reaffirmist or rejectionist, folks tend to gravitate towards the path of least resistance between their personal comforts and social aspirations.