BongBongLand (Philippine) Discussion Thread

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

Sure their healthcare is good, but their Government can't even give them a decent standard of living, heck a friend of mine who just came from Cuba stated that the Cubans were begging her for pens and bars of soap from the hotel, for as you know their economy and standard of living is inferior even by Filipino standards.

Vietnam is basically a Capitalist dictatorship, so I'm not sure how they add up to your point, Uruguay is poor, Brazil is Portugese, Argentina has declared bankruptcy 4 times in the last 2 decades alone, most of Central America is so much of a wreck that they can't control the flow of drugs through their respective countries, and once again, I excluded Mexico and Chile because they are relatively successful states, for Hispanic influenced states, however they are as I continue to state, EXCEPTIONS to the rule, not the actual rule itself, thus the explanation of the exclusion.

It explains nothing. They aren't the exception to any rule. The fact of the matter is the supposed "lack of success" of South America isn't because to Hispanization - a point you clearly aren't willing to even consider because of your obvious racism. It's because of a thousand different reasons including, but not limited to, rebellions, corruption and dictatorships - not because they're Hispanic. They've been free of Spain for twice as long as we have and they're doing a lot better.

As for equating our state to 'failing', have we ever defaulted on our debt? Have we ever fallen into all out civil war? Have we ever been invaded since the Second World War? No? Then we haven't 'failed' we're poor and ill educated sure, but that's the Filipino Hispanic's problem, not the Filipino American's problem,

Not everything is about the economy. I'm sure you're able to criticize from your ivory tower all the way over there at Australia, but you haven't seen poverty the way we have now. I can literally count how many bodies I've seen with my own two eyes because of the drug war. Corruption is still pretty rampant, families still own provinces, the economy is tanking and not to mention the fact that we have been invaded by China. Oh and let's not forget that you're so clearly racist by making this weird distinction that there's a difference between the Hispanic influence and the American influence in today's Filipino. There isn't. Whatever we have, we've molded it into something unique and, for better or worse, whatever fuck-up we have isn't going to be because we were influenced by either Spain or America - it's because we, as Filipinos, are fuck-ups. That's it.

the fact is, the institution of a poor, uneducated local population was made by the Spanish to successfully control us despite being far away, meanwhile the Americans not only EDUCATED us, but also gave us our Independence PEACEFULLY, treachery or not, Spanish culture is clearly inferior to the Anglicised culture taught to us by the United States.

Culture isn't the problem here. They didn't educate us out of some moral imperative and, may I remind you, we were already technically independent and they took that away from us.

Especially if you compare the standard of living between the two periods.

The standard of living was pretty much the same: Manila was wealthy, everything outside Manila was not.

And no, English culture is obviously better,

No it isn't. You just think that because you speak English. Thinking one culture is better than the other is what lead to the rise of the far-right.

for it's the culture that has taught Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and The United States to be the countries they are today, successful, powerful, and most importantly WEALTHIER than just about anyone else per capita, show me a Spanish influenced country that meet all three of those categories, and I'll eat my words, otherwise my point stands.

The economy isn't the main factor here, buddy. You seem to be unable to understand that. You want to talk about how the indigenous peoples of Australia and New Zealand are still being oppressed by the whites? You want to mention how Canada is basically stonewalling Quebec sovereignty? Or how about the inherent racism of American society that bleeds into the fact that America houses 25% of the world's prison population?

Everybody has their faults and successes - looking at everything just through numbers is what leads to dehumanizing these states. They aren't successful because they were Anglicized, but because of a thousand different factors. If they were speaking Chinese they would still be successful the way they are.

Sigh... Alright then, looks like I'm bullet pointing again:

1. And have you not noticed that the Institutions left behind by the Spanish in all those countries including ours are basically the reasons as to why the factors you just stated caused these South American nations to be the way they are today? I mean look at Spain itself, General Francisco Franco ring a bell? And I'm not being racist here, I'm comparing culture, not racism, essentially I'm saying if English culture were evident in the Islamic World (and Protestant Christian secular values) they would be a heck of a lot more peaceful and successful than they currently are, I mean this is not a question of skin color, but of cultural ideas that lead to inferior standards of living.
I mean do you think that Female Gental Mutilation is a superior cultural practice, or marrying daughters off by the age of 10? Because I don't, I couldn't care less what your skin color is, so long as you're civilised enough to know that certain cultural practices are uncivilised.


2. Excuse me, but don't you think I know that? Our people elected a buffoon that I distinctly warned not only my FAMILY but ENTIRE COMMUNITIES NOT TO VOTE FOR while I was there during the election season, the fact of the matter is, I am now frantically trying to MINIMISE the damage done to our nation by the bufoon of a President elected by the average uneducated Juan and Maria hoping that change would come sooner than a decade.
I am advocating for his impeachment not only openly, but explaining it to the diaspora here and abroad, not to mention I am working hard to gosh darn diddly change the still stubbornly high approval ratings he enjoys despite my explanations. Don't blame me for whatever is wrong there, because I'm not even ALLOWED to vote there, considering I'm only an 'honorary' citizen.
And again, I'm not being racist as this is a CULTURE debate not a RACE debate, I couldn't care less if you're Aeta or Kastila, so long as you have civilised cultural beliefs, like the belief in Law over Vigilantism as a very clear and very obviously relevant example.

3. Okay, why did they educate us then? Why spend resources to educate an entire population knowing full well that they'll be Independent if not for some sort of moral objective?

4. Actually no, health and education actually spread to the provinces, even in Mindanao, as the Americans taught our farmers more modern Agricultural practices and provided better services never before available to them.

5. Basically everyone in the Philippines speaks English, and the fact of the matter is, that the English have been waaaaaay better than any other European country at establishing nations with sustainable high standards of living, such is why I have deduced their superiority as a development culture, relative to let's say The French or Spanish.

6. Australia has passed legislation essentially allowing the Aboriginals to claim damages since the 1970s, New Zealand has the Treaty of Waitangi which is actually in the Maori's favour now, Canada has given the Québécois a referendum to become Independent to which they voted No, and the United States isn't perfect, nonetheless, they are the strongest and richest nation in the World, this despite having Bush (the second one) and Trump as Presidents.

7. They were successful because of the preeminence of English Institutionals left to them, they built up from that, sure you can say that there were many other factors, but the main fact here is, that the correlation between countries with heavy Anglicised cultures and success in standards of living are too great to ignore.

[Pasong Tirad]

1. And have you not noticed that the Institutions left behind by the Spanish in all those countries including ours are basically the reasons as to why the factors you just stated caused these South American nations to be the way they are today? I mean look at Spain itself, General Francisco Franco ring a bell? And I'm not being racist here, I'm comparing culture, not racism, essentially I'm saying if English culture were evident in the Islamic World (and Protestant Christian secular values) they would be a heck of a lot more peaceful and successful than they currently are, I mean this is not a question of skin color, but of cultural ideas that lead to inferior standards of living.

Because comparing culture and saying one is inferior definitely isn't racism, hell no. Because the troubles in the Islamic world are because of their culture and not because of Western interventionism. Because being Christian means being peaceful. Because all racism is about is skin color. Because "inferior standards of living" are brought about by culture and not because of a thousand different nuanced reasons.

I mean do you think that Female Gental Mutilation is a superior cultural practice, or marrying daughters off by the age of 10? Because I don't, I couldn't care less what your skin color is, so long as you're civilised enough to know that certain cultural practices are uncivilised.

Oh yeah because the West definitely don't have some weird cultural practices, like witch burning or being addicted to opiods. What is "civilized" to you is normal to them. We could call eating dog uncivilized, but it's a cultural practice in China. At the same time, they could call our fondness for eating a whole pig or eating a fertilized duck egg "uncivilized."

2. Excuse me, but don't you think I know that? Our people elected a buffoon that I distinctly warned not only my FAMILY but ENTIRE COMMUNITIES NOT TO VOTE FOR while I was there during the election season, the fact of the matter is, I am now frantically trying to MINIMISE the damage done to our nation by the bufoon of a President elected by the average uneducated Juan and Maria hoping that change would come sooner than a decade.

Peak elitism right here. Because voting for Duterte obviously meant you're uneducated. Really now? Be better than that.

I am advocating for his impeachment not only openly, but explaining it to the diaspora here and abroad, not to mention I am working hard to gosh darn diddly change the still stubbornly high approval ratings he enjoys despite my explanations. Don't blame me for whatever is wrong there, because I'm not even ALLOWED to vote there, considering I'm only an 'honorary' citizen.
And again, I'm not being racist as this is a CULTURE debate not a RACE debate, I couldn't care less if you're Aeta or Kastila, so long as you have civilised cultural beliefs, like the belief in Law over Vigilantism as a very clear and very obviously relevant example.

You're not going to do much if you're not here. No social media war will win the good fight.

3. Okay, why did they educate us then? Why spend resources to educate an entire population knowing full well that they'll be Independent if not for some sort of moral objective?

Because they thought us to be "uncivilized barbarians," their Little Brown Brothers. Ever hear of that? This wasn't because of some kind belief that we would be a strong nation if all had access to education, they did it because they thought we were savages who lived in trees and wore loincloths.

4. Actually no, health and education actually spread to the provinces, even in Mindanao, as the Americans taught our farmers more modern Agricultural practices and provided better services never before available to them.

You clearly don't have a proper grasp of our history. Yes, health and educational institutions were basically spread all throughout the islands, but the standards of living were basically the same and very very very few benefited. Americans focusing on Manila did lead to Manila becoming a pretty well-off city, but the rest of the country was turned to shit. The wealthy landlords who, before, had decent and personal relations with their tenants were replaced by bosses who abused the tenants and took more than the fair share of the old landlords. Turning Manila into the "Paris of the East" led to the impoverishment of the rest of the country, as well as lead to the rise of the Communist/Socialist peasant movements, among other things.

5. Basically everyone in the Philippines speaks English, and the fact of the matter is, that the English have been waaaaaay better than any other European country at establishing nations with sustainable high standards of living, such is why I have deduced their superiority as a development culture, relative to let's say The French or Spanish.

Have you seen the British colonies in Africa? Or India even? Would you say they're doing well? To use your line of reasoning, it was the clash of "cultures" that led to the impoverishment of many former British colonies in Africa and India, whereas Canada Australia and New Zealand had sparse populations of indigenous who were after a generation basically outnumbered.

7. They were successful because of the preeminence of English Institutionals left to them, they built up from that, sure you can say that there were many other factors, but the main fact here is, that the correlation between countries with heavy Anglicised cultures and success in standards of living are too great to ignore.

They were successful because of their own perseverance, among other things. Do you think they're saying "Hey let's thank England for our success" ? No. You're confusing fact with an opinion that isn't backed up by proof.

[Stormwrath]

Also, Germans. They have just as many successful stuff going about them as the English do, so stop patronizing Anglicization as a major pillar in the success of countries around the world. That notion is as antiquated as Social Darwinism itself.

[Victoriala II]

english is superior because america and uk or something

[Mundiferrum]

some bits:

the katipunan did not declare any real, all-encompassing sense of philippine independence at june 12, 1898, it was just a bunch of (in my opinion, grubby-handed) caviteno factions that declared it. of course, some historians would say that those factions were the katipunan, to the exclusion of most other factions, while other historians would say that they lost their legitimacy somewhere around the establishment of aguinaldo as president in a meeting where only cavitenos were present to around the time they executed andres bonifacio, and both sides are probably better schooled than me, but really it's a complicated issue, and i think june 12 was selected just to make us less like a tuta.

socialism is a massive, massive, massive political ideology, and you can't boil it down to being purely good or bad. some forms of socialism are unsustainable, others are not, some are based on marx, some are not, and ultimately a lot of socialist policies are taken for granted by pretty much any political party now. the fact that you hate socialism sorta dates you to the cold war.

lastly, our national sport is neither soccer nor sipa, but arnis. we are not a nation of sissies: http://www.lawphil.net/statutes/repacts ... _2009.html

There was more than one declaration of independence.

there were a lot, yeah, but my point is it's a stupidly complex issue, and we'd probably only spark a flame war or something trying to discuss it in an internet forum.

also, my gahd, English culture is better? thank you for pulling postcolonial discourse back by a hundred years.
To wit: for one, it's European culture, not English, it just so happens that the English managed to keep their empire for so long (probably due to the way they managed to spread their monarch's power was so clean, no real revolutions were sparked). But just because a place is richer, doesn't mean its culture is better. The culture of oppression that exists in China or Russia isn't bettered by the fact that they're richer than ours; and the richness of Europe, lest you forget, was built on the backs of other cultures being smothered out (eg, ours, but also China's, with the Opium trade destablizing the nation, and to some extent Russia's), in particular the victims of the slave trade (basically the whole of Africa).

For another, you're taking the cultures of all these other countries and imposing your own cultural biases on them. You talk as if the "Hispanic culture" (which, seeing as how you don't live in the Philippines anymore, you seem particularly blind at), the "Islamic world", or those cultures that practice female genital mutilation have the same ethical mindsets as us, as if our ethics were superior, when it's our (or, at least, your part of the Western cultural sphere) ethics that's ultimately causing the propagation of poverty, etc. Not only that fundamentally imperialistic point-of-view of yours, but also the fact that race is merely a construct -- there is no real biological distinction between blacks, whites, and whatevers, with the distinction only being so malignantly fleshed out at the height of the slave trade -- and that all debates regarding race are essentially debates regarding culture. Saying that one culture is overall worse than another is basically saying that one race is overall worse than another: see Hitler, who, like you, removed the distinctions amongst the Jewish community (ie, Jewish "culture") to form a philosophy that declared them all to be worse, inferior, worthy to be killed.

That, by the way, is a point I discussed with my literary friends just this week -- about how the poor aren't exactly uneducated, it's just that they have a culture that's distinct from us who've gone through college and have had our minds tailored to glorify more Western goodies like what we think is intelligence. Sure, it's a culture that's a bit disjoint from international discourse (sort of like your culture, actually), but that doesn't make them any less legitimate: for one, my relatives out in the provinces would probably be far more hospitable, and far less alienated, than I, the lovechild of Jose Rizal and BBC News. And the fact that you don't seem keen to acknowledge that is precisely the reason why assholes like Trump, Duterte, Farage, Le Pen, and Erdogan are winning, and why no one would actually listen to those who actually know their shit.

For yet another, the Spanish were already educating us very well when the Americans arrived, with much of American education focusing on enforcing your incredibly warped view of Philippine history. Many of our famed illustrados were educated under Spanish supervision, in Spanish institutions, and there are enough tales of Juan Luna etc winning prizes and PhDs in Spain, as well as European scientific innovations being brought on over here from Spain, that that should be obvious. Sure, it was about 200 years too late, but you must remember how different America would have responded two hundred years before they took over -- their moral prerogative would probably not have interrupted our own efforts of independence then in the first place, just as the first thing they did when Haiti or France fought for its freedom was not invaded those respective countries.

And someone could probably talk about how the British Empire's treatment of its subjects was not particularly perfect, or how the standards of living in English colonies are proportional to just how many white people came and massacred the local cultures beforehand (for example, Australia, New Zealand, and technically, South Africa, seeing as how it's usually the whites who have it good there -- and for which I'm rather thankful to the Spanish, or perhaps to the Catholic Church, since at that point their main prerogative was conversion, not elimination, which entailed some form of cultural preservation), but that's not my field of expertise. It's not really heavily Anglicised, so much as heavily genocided, then replaced with English people, and thus making them easier to integrate with the social, political, and economical systems of the empire.

Really, dude, get out of the friggin [18]90s.

[Victoriala II]

para lang simbahan sa sagada ih

[Pasong Tirad]

Also, Germans. They have just as many successful stuff going about them as the English do, so stop patronizing Anglicization as a major pillar in the success of countries around the world. That notion is as antiquated as Social Darwinism itself.

OH OH OH I found out last year in class that the Germans also tried to colonize us but were like "yeah, no, nvm" when they saw that America had a lot more ships in the area.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

1. And have you not noticed that the Institutions left behind by the Spanish in all those countries including ours are basically the reasons as to why the factors you just stated caused these South American nations to be the way they are today? I mean look at Spain itself, General Francisco Franco ring a bell? And I'm not being racist here, I'm comparing culture, not racism, essentially I'm saying if English culture were evident in the Islamic World (and Protestant Christian secular values) they would be a heck of a lot more peaceful and successful than they currently are, I mean this is not a question of skin color, but of cultural ideas that lead to inferior standards of living.

Because comparing culture and saying one is inferior definitely isn't racism, hell no. Because the troubles in the Islamic world are because of their culture and not because of Western interventionism. Because being Christian means being peaceful. Because all racism is about is skin color. Because "inferior standards of living" are brought about by culture and not because of a thousand different nuanced reasons.

I mean do you think that Female Gental Mutilation is a superior cultural practice, or marrying daughters off by the age of 10? Because I don't, I couldn't care less what your skin color is, so long as you're civilised enough to know that certain cultural practices are uncivilised.

Oh yeah because the West definitely don't have some weird cultural practices, like witch burning or being addicted to opiods. What is "civilized" to you is normal to them. We could call eating dog uncivilized, but it's a cultural practice in China. At the same time, they could call our fondness for eating a whole pig or eating a fertilized duck egg "uncivilized."

2. Excuse me, but don't you think I know that? Our people elected a buffoon that I distinctly warned not only my FAMILY but ENTIRE COMMUNITIES NOT TO VOTE FOR while I was there during the election season, the fact of the matter is, I am now frantically trying to MINIMISE the damage done to our nation by the bufoon of a President elected by the average uneducated Juan and Maria hoping that change would come sooner than a decade.

Peak elitism right here. Because voting for Duterte obviously meant you're uneducated. Really now? Be better than that.

I am advocating for his impeachment not only openly, but explaining it to the diaspora here and abroad, not to mention I am working hard to gosh darn diddly change the still stubbornly high approval ratings he enjoys despite my explanations. Don't blame me for whatever is wrong there, because I'm not even ALLOWED to vote there, considering I'm only an 'honorary' citizen.
And again, I'm not being racist as this is a CULTURE debate not a RACE debate, I couldn't care less if you're Aeta or Kastila, so long as you have civilised cultural beliefs, like the belief in Law over Vigilantism as a very clear and very obviously relevant example.

You're not going to do much if you're not here. No social media war will win the good fight.

3. Okay, why did they educate us then? Why spend resources to educate an entire population knowing full well that they'll be Independent if not for some sort of moral objective?

Because they thought us to be "uncivilized barbarians," their Little Brown Brothers. Ever hear of that? This wasn't because of some kind belief that we would be a strong nation if all had access to education, they did it because they thought we were savages who lived in trees and wore loincloths.

4. Actually no, health and education actually spread to the provinces, even in Mindanao, as the Americans taught our farmers more modern Agricultural practices and provided better services never before available to them.

You clearly don't have a proper grasp of our history. Yes, health and educational institutions were basically spread all throughout the islands, but the standards of living were basically the same and very very very few benefited. Americans focusing on Manila did lead to Manila becoming a pretty well-off city, but the rest of the country was turned to shit. The wealthy landlords who, before, had decent and personal relations with their tenants were replaced by bosses who abused the tenants and took more than the fair share of the old landlords. Turning Manila into the "Paris of the East" led to the impoverishment of the rest of the country, as well as lead to the rise of the Communist/Socialist peasant movements, among other things.

5. Basically everyone in the Philippines speaks English, and the fact of the matter is, that the English have been waaaaaay better than any other European country at establishing nations with sustainable high standards of living, such is why I have deduced their superiority as a development culture, relative to let's say The French or Spanish.

Have you seen the British colonies in Africa? Or India even? Would you say they're doing well? To use your line of reasoning, it was the clash of "cultures" that led to the impoverishment of many former British colonies in Africa and India, whereas Canada Australia and New Zealand had sparse populations of indigenous who were after a generation basically outnumbered.

7. They were successful because of the preeminence of English Institutionals left to them, they built up from that, sure you can say that there were many other factors, but the main fact here is, that the correlation between countries with heavy Anglicised cultures and success in standards of living are too great to ignore.

They were successful because of their own perseverance, among other things. Do you think they're saying "Hey let's thank England for our success" ? No. You're confusing fact with an opinion that isn't backed up by proof.

1. Cultural inferiority is an actual issue, as opposed to let's say 'racial' inferiority, at the end of the day, slavery was culturally acceptable, however has been outlawed because it is an inferior cultural practice, what I'm essentially getting at here is that cultural inferiority are not race issues as they are with regards to the practices done by people who CHOOSE to do them, not something that they're born with like let's say... Skin color.

2. Yeah, those practices WERE inferior, that's why they DON'T DO THEM ANYMORE. Does the Middle East still practice Female Genital Mutilation or arranged marriages of their 10 year old daughters or you know... Not allowing their women to DRIVE? Yes? Then clearly those are CULTURAL PRACTICES, or rather, those are CULTURALLY INFERIOR PRACTICES, relative to Western culture and when I say 'Western culture' I mean MODERN Western culture quite obviously.

3. So what do you want to call the people who WILLINGLY voted the worst President in the history of our nation since Marcos himself? Because they sure as hell don't come under the category of 'intelligent', not unless they regret voting him in, however the problem here is that Duterte is STILL POPULAR, meaning that DESPITE HIS DISASTROUS POLICIES, people STILL SUPPORT HIM ON MASSE, and that masse includes members of my own family, and sure my family of doctors are smart and what not, but when it comes to politics and the welfare of the state they are quote end quote 'uneducated', so don't pretend as if the people who allow this buffoon of a man to remain in power as opposed to supporting the current legitimate impeachment case against him are 'victims' because allowing him to remain in power and refusing to listen to reason is just as much of a crime as letting corrupt policemen kill innocent foreign business men, under the guise of the 'drug' policy.

4. Yeah, as if I was clearly able to hold heavy political sway while I was advising WHOLE COMMUNITIES while I was there during the campaign trail, let me tell you how dire it is in the countryside, MOST PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ELECTRICITY FOR UPWARDS OF 12 HOURS in many islands, when I was telling them about what Duterte said about the Pope they were shocked, that's how bad the information spread was, and this was just a few sprawled out islands off the coast of Bohol which housed THOUSANDS OF ELIGIBLE VOTERS. I did everything I could to prevent people from voting for Binay first and foremost, and for Duterte after his stunt with the Pope, but obviously I'm not a T.V. personality, I mean WHAT CHANCE DO YOU THINK I HAVE WHEN GOSH DARN DIDDLY ALDUB GAVE THEIR DARN OFFICIAL SUPPORT TO DUTERTE??? So, excuse me for being a bit snark and cynical towards your naive statement of 'if you're not in the country' because not only is that naive, it's insulting, because it discredits the importance of the OFW vote, you know the population that boasts about 7 or so MILLION PEOPLE.

5. All I'm hearing is: You're mad because they thought of us as monkeys when they were giving us essentially FREE HEALTHCARE, EDUCATION, PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, DEFENSIVE WEAPONRY, IMPERATIVE TRADE IMPORTANCE, and PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE?
Wow, they sure were monsters weren't they huh?
I mean it's not like the Spanish did the same thing BUT WORSE or anything, no no no. (sarcasm, obviously)

6. Uh no, the rise of communism in Asia was thanks in part to the growth of communism as a major force to fill the vacuum that was the Empire of Japan, luckily, it was also partially filled by the Americans.
Also it wasn't the Americans who impoverished the country side, for even you have just stated that the Americans helped with the development of the country side's agricultural practices at the time, which obviously equals a better standard of living, especially if you consider how spread out the English language and thus the education services were in the country side. No,the impoverishment was caused by the war which devastated the institutions set up by the Americans, I mean do you think if the Japanese never bombed our cities and the historical monuments and parks and historic building that were demolished and replaced by squatter houses as a result of the imperative to rebuild industry first would have happened? At the end of the day, quite a few of our nation's most educated and wealthy people evacuated the country, the devastation of the cities caused the price of land to decline significantly, people in the country side saw this as an opportunity to move to cheap homes in the rebuilding cities and work in the relatively more profitable factories, however the sacrifice was our boulevards, parks and standards of living for future generations to come.


7. I said specifically 'ESTABLISHING COUNTRIES', thus India, Bengal, Burma, and The Indus Valley does not count for by far they were civilisations of their own, with their own culture, the only thing they probably retain from the British is a weird copy of their Governmental system, the English language, and the use of English Common Law in their legal system, apart from that, it's still pretty much distinctly their own respective cultures. As for British Africa, Botswana is a shining testament to British Institutions being left behind to be wisely used to create a model state in a continent so full of problems. I mean South Africa, a nation full of problems is the MOST DEVELOPED NATION IN ALL OF AFRICA, so that in itself is supposed to make a statement... Well a double statement really, one that Africa really really really needs to increase its standards at-least to Botswana levels, and two that despite the poverty still prevalent in the continent, British colonised nations in Africa are relatively well off than their neighboring none English colonised states.

8. As I said, the Institutions and cultural backbone that the English left these countries were the backbone that led to their success, I mean don't you find it odd, that in our state we have a cultural practice that makes us hire maids and handy men to do our dirty work, while the developed Anglicized World, such as the States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, heck even the Republic of Ireland, has a culture of 'do it yourself'? Because I find it extremely odd, that we have a very lazy upper class in our country that looks upon the less educated of our society and views them as nothing more than second class citizens because they're too gosh darn lazy to get off their chairs and teach our less capable in society, meanwhile having only lived about 5 years in both New Zealand and Australia, I've noticed that not only do rich people help poor people because they're nice, but because it benefits them, I mean a smarter population is a more industrious population, and a more industrious population means a more favorable business climate for the elite, so I'm really at a loss over the system currently in place back home.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

Also, Germans. They have just as many successful stuff going about them as the English do, so stop patronizing Anglicization as a major pillar in the success of countries around the world. That notion is as antiquated as Social Darwinism itself.

The Germans never successfully established any nations apart from their own, I have no doubt in my mind they would have been successful at creating a First World state given the chance, but they were formed way too late, and were simply late to colonise.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

There was more than one declaration of independence.

there were a lot, yeah, but my point is it's a stupidly complex issue, and we'd probably only spark a flame war or something trying to discuss it in an internet forum.

also, my gahd, English culture is better? thank you for pulling postcolonial discourse back by a hundred years.
To wit: for one, it's European culture, not English, it just so happens that the English managed to keep their empire for so long (probably due to the way they managed to spread their monarch's power was so clean, no real revolutions were sparked). But just because a place is richer, doesn't mean its culture is better. The culture of oppression that exists in China or Russia isn't bettered by the fact that they're richer than ours; and the richness of Europe, lest you forget, was built on the backs of other cultures being smothered out (eg, ours, but also China's, with the Opium trade destablizing the nation, and to some extent Russia's), in particular the victims of the slave trade (basically the whole of Africa).

For another, you're taking the cultures of all these other countries and imposing your own cultural biases on them. You talk as if the "Hispanic culture" (which, seeing as how you don't live in the Philippines anymore, you seem particularly blind at), the "Islamic world", or those cultures that practice female genital mutilation have the same ethical mindsets as us, as if our ethics were superior, when it's our (or, at least, your part of the Western cultural sphere) ethics that's ultimately causing the propagation of poverty, etc. Not only that fundamentally imperialistic point-of-view of yours, but also the fact that race is merely a construct -- there is no real biological distinction between blacks, whites, and whatevers, with the distinction only being so malignantly fleshed out at the height of the slave trade -- and that all debates regarding race are essentially debates regarding culture. Saying that one culture is overall worse than another is basically saying that one race is overall worse than another: see Hitler, who, like you, removed the distinctions amongst the Jewish community (ie, Jewish "culture") to form a philosophy that declared them all to be worse, inferior, worthy to be killed.

That, by the way, is a point I discussed with my literary friends just this week -- about how the poor aren't exactly uneducated, it's just that they have a culture that's distinct from us who've gone through college and have had our minds tailored to glorify more Western goodies like what we think is intelligence. Sure, it's a culture that's a bit disjoint from international discourse (sort of like your culture, actually), but that doesn't make them any less legitimate: for one, my relatives out in the provinces would probably be far more hospitable, and far less alienated, than I, the lovechild of Jose Rizal and BBC News. And the fact that you don't seem keen to acknowledge that is precisely the reason why assholes like Trump, Duterte, Farage, Le Pen, and Erdogan are winning, and why no one would actually listen to those who actually know their shit.

For yet another, the Spanish were already educating us very well when the Americans arrived, with much of American education focusing on enforcing your incredibly warped view of Philippine history. Many of our famed illustrados were educated under Spanish supervision, in Spanish institutions, and there are enough tales of Juan Luna etc winning prizes and PhDs in Spain, as well as European scientific innovations being brought on over here from Spain, that that should be obvious. Sure, it was about 200 years too late, but you must remember how different America would have responded two hundred years before they took over -- their moral prerogative would probably not have interrupted our own efforts of independence then in the first place, just as the first thing they did when Haiti or France fought for its freedom was not invaded those respective countries.

And someone could probably talk about how the British Empire's treatment of its subjects was not particularly perfect, or how the standards of living in English colonies are proportional to just how many white people came and massacred the local cultures beforehand (for example, Australia, New Zealand, and technically, South Africa, seeing as how it's usually the whites who have it good there -- and for which I'm rather thankful to the Spanish, or perhaps to the Catholic Church, since at that point their main prerogative was conversion, not elimination, which entailed some form of cultural preservation), but that's not my field of expertise. It's not really heavily Anglicised, so much as heavily genocided, then replaced with English people, and thus making them easier to integrate with the social, political, and economical systems of the empire.

Really, dude, get out of the friggin [18]90s.

1. It's not just about wealth, but the standards of living put in place by the modern state that has replaced the former British Colony using the institutions left behind by the British and the cultural norms that helped shape the nation as it is today, at the end of the day, if you were to compare nations SETTLED by the British to let's say settled by the Spanish or French, you can see that there is a greater standard of living for not only the European settlers there but also for the natives of that land under a British Governmental system. I mean it cannot be denied that nations that developed themselves to be considered 'First World Countries' were mostly part of the British Empire at some point, I mean our neighbors Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore and Hong Kong developed themselves to be the successful nations that they are today relative to their neighbors, including us because they used the institutions left behind by the British, not to mention that English culture helped shape their laws and values, though Islam is also a major contributor as-well.

2. Westernised ethics are obviously not perfect as they were created by human beings, beings that are by themselves imperfect, however, given current knowledge, it is the most ethical basis that we currently have, Modern Western cultural beliefs are indeed superior to certain cultural beliefs in different areas. I mean at the end of the day, the fact of the matter is, when there is something that is clearly wrong as a cultural norm in Western society there is the opportunity to change it, as opposed to let's say the Islamic culture, a perfect example would be the civil rights of the LGBT community, for the most part in the Islamic culture the rights of gays have been dire if not nonexistent, however in Western culture we have made great strides despite heavy negating influence from conservative aspects (myself included), to provide their kind with greater rights as human beings, the current state is not perfect, but at the end of the day, we're definitely superior in that regard relative to let's say Saudi Arabia which don't even allow their women to drive, which is again a culturally inferior practice.

3. Well cultural practices that are wrong can be done away with, because cultural practices are a choice not a mandatory affliction, such is why religions, cultures, and people change, so if something is clearly inferior as a practice, it clearly needs to be changed, at the end of the day don't get me wrong, but my point has been about the practices in the different cultures and how quickly it can reform itself to be more modern and more humane relative to other cultures, and by far the English Western culture seems to be the most capable of being reformed and as such able to be considered ethically superior, I mean the Geneva Convention by itself, obviously the most humane agreement and laws ever created by man is heavily Western based and ethically in par with the English culture for the most part, whether you like it or not, and if you were to compare the Convention to most if not all Arabic states, you would find their set of laws don't come close to the stipulations of the Convention, thus just proving my point further.

4. Well no, the Spanish were not educating the entire Philippine nation on masse, neither were they providing us with healthcare and modern industrial infrastructure and innovations like the Americans were, if anything their educational system was designed to keep the Filipino people enslaved and only the most loyal of Filipinos in power in the name of the Spanish Crown.

5. I'm not at all calling it 'perfect' I'm simply saying that considering the modern success of Anglicised states, we were better off being Anglicised first before being given Independence rather than being given direct Independence from Spain given the relative success of directly Independent states from Spain. i.e Argentina, which as I said has been bankrupt 4 times the past 20 years, Venezuela which despite the largest known oil reserves in the World somehow can't afford to feed its own people, Colombia, a hot bed for crime and drugs, and the list goes on and on...

[Victoriala II]

>if anything their educational system was designed to keep the Filipino people enslaved and only the most loyal of Filipinos in power in the name of the Spanish Crown.

See: every other great power in the early modern period

[Mundiferrum]

>if anything their educational system was designed to keep the Filipino people enslaved and only the most loyal of Filipinos in power in the name of the Spanish Crown.

See: every other great power in the early modern period

white man=learned, black/brown man=not so learned
it just so happened that many of the prosperous English nations, instead of teaching the local black or brown men, decided to eliminate them instead

being a big part of my point. also the Americans did end up empowering a lot of the local landowners anyway, so all they did was free from slavery both the rich and the middle class, rather than just the rich (if you don't consider the properly middle class families of Rizal etc as "middle class"). ie, same old same old

[Pasong Tirad]

1. Cultural inferiority is an actual issue, as opposed to let's say 'racial' inferiority, at the end of the day, slavery was culturally acceptable, however has been outlawed because it is an inferior cultural practice, what I'm essentially getting at here is that cultural inferiority are not race issues as they are with regards to the practices done by people who CHOOSE to do them, not something that they're born with like let's say... Skin color.

Yeah cause Hitler didn't kill the white Jews. You, sir, are trying to be apologetic about your racism by calling out some kind of pseudo-scientific notion of "cultural inferiority." Stop it.

2. Yeah, those practices WERE inferior, that's why they DON'T DO THEM ANYMORE. Does the Middle East still practice Female Genital Mutilation or arranged marriages of their 10 year old daughters or you know... Not allowing their women to DRIVE? Yes? Then clearly those are CULTURAL PRACTICES, or rather, those are CULTURALLY INFERIOR PRACTICES, relative to Western culture and when I say 'Western culture' I mean MODERN Western culture quite obviously.

You know what else is inferior? Thinking other cultures are inferior. They're not inferior, they're different. They're not inferior, they're traditionalists and you're just too stuck in your liberal "modernized" Westernized bubble in Australia to get with the times and understand that not everybody is like you. Don't do it. Yes, there are people out there who wholly believe that women shouldn't be allowed to drive - but that makes them bad people, it doesn't mean their "culture" is inferior.

3. So what do you want to call the people who WILLINGLY voted the worst President in the history of our nation since Marcos himself? Because they sure as hell don't come under the category of 'intelligent', not unless they regret voting him in, however the problem here is that Duterte is STILL POPULAR, meaning that DESPITE HIS DISASTROUS POLICIES, people STILL SUPPORT HIM ON MASSE, and that masse includes members of my own family, and sure my family of doctors are smart and what not, but when it comes to politics and the welfare of the state they are quote end quote 'uneducated', so don't pretend as if the people who allow this buffoon of a man to remain in power as opposed to supporting the current legitimate impeachment case against him are 'victims' because allowing him to remain in power and refusing to listen to reason is just as much of a crime as letting corrupt policemen kill innocent foreign business men, under the guise of the 'drug' policy.

Galit ka ata, brad. They're not stupid, they're not unintelligent. Would you call Stormwrath unintelligent for voting and continuing to support Duterte? Of course not. We may think them misguided, but they have their reasons and that doesn't make them stupid. You need to get out of your bubble.

4. Yeah, as if I was clearly able to hold heavy political sway while I was advising WHOLE COMMUNITIES while I was there during the campaign trail, let me tell you how dire it is in the countryside, MOST PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ELECTRICITY FOR UPWARDS OF 12 HOURS in many islands, when I was telling them about what Duterte said about the Pope they were shocked, that's how bad the information spread was, and this was just a few sprawled out islands off the coast of Bohol which housed THOUSANDS OF ELIGIBLE VOTERS. I did everything I could to prevent people from voting for Binay first and foremost, and for Duterte after his stunt with the Pope, but obviously I'm not a T.V. personality, I mean WHAT CHANCE DO YOU THINK I HAVE WHEN GOSH DARN DIDDLY ALDUB GAVE THEIR DARN OFFICIAL SUPPORT TO DUTERTE??? So, excuse me for being a bit snark and cynical towards your naive statement of 'if you're not in the country' because not only is that naive, it's insulting, because it discredits the importance of the OFW vote, you know the population that boasts about 7 or so MILLION PEOPLE.

HA. As if being part of the campaign trail is "immersing" yourself into their world. As if knowing the fact that they don't have stable electricity is "oh look at me I know about the plight of the poor." Buddy, you don't know shit. You're in Australia. The OFW v ote the way they would vote where they are - the OFWs voted for Duterte because Duterte is the proto-Trump, the beginning of the far-right movement. It's expected and it's saddening. You're equating my dismissal of you to my dismissal of the overseas Filipino. I'm not dismissing them, I'm just dismissing you.

5. All I'm hearing is: You're mad because they thought of us as monkeys when they were giving us essentially FREE HEALTHCARE, EDUCATION, PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, DEFENSIVE WEAPONRY, IMPERATIVE TRADE IMPORTANCE, and PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE?
Wow, they sure were monsters weren't they huh?
I mean it's not like the Spanish did the same thing BUT WORSE or anything, no no no. (sarcasm, obviously)

And all I'm hearing is: You're mad because I don't think American colonization was a good thing. It obviously isn't. Get with the times, we're postcolonial now. They forbade the education of the Filipino language, for years before the creation of the National Assembly they forbade the flying of the Filipino flag or any other revolutionary symbol. For years after and during the war, the revolutionaries were turned into "bandits" by the American press in the Philippines who wouldn't acknowledge the legitimacy of their fight. For years afterward the Philippine-American War was called not that but the Philippine Insurrection, calling their colonization something legitimate. For years after our independence it was us who relied on American trade because that was their design. They wouldn't free us from their grip.

6. Uh no, the rise of communism in Asia was thanks in part to the growth of communism as a major force to fill the vacuum that was the Empire of Japan, luckily, it was also partially filled by the Americans.
Also it wasn't the Americans who impoverished the country side, for even you have just stated that the Americans helped with the development of the country side's agricultural practices at the time, which obviously equals a better standard of living, especially if you consider how spread out the English language and thus the education services were in the country side. No,the impoverishment was caused by the war which devastated the institutions set up by the Americans, I mean do you think if the Japanese never bombed our cities and the historical monuments and parks and historic building that were demolished and replaced by squatter houses as a result of the imperative to rebuild industry first would have happened? At the end of the day, quite a few of our nation's most educated and wealthy people evacuated the country, the devastation of the cities caused the price of land to decline significantly, people in the country side saw this as an opportunity to move to cheap homes in the rebuilding cities and work in the relatively more profitable factories, however the sacrifice was our boulevards, parks and standards of living for future generations to come.

You obviously don't understand our own history. I'm talking about the rise of communism in the Philippines.

Where did I say that? Yes they helped but they didn't do shit for the everyman. All they helped were the people in Manila who could afford the American way of life. The "power vacuum" that was left in rural Philippines was thanks to the new generation of landlords who went to Manila for a better life, leaving their lands in the hands of the impoverished who took over because of deteriorating conditions at the hands of their landbosses who worked for the landlords and extorted from the peasantry more than the fair share of the landlord. They were already impoverished by the time Japan came. Does the name Carlos Bulosan mean anything to you? There's a reason thousands of Filipinos migrated during this time to the American West Coast: because they weren't being helped by the Americans here in the Philippines.

I also need to remind you that it wasn't the Japanese who bombed Manila. Manila was turned into an open city and it was American shelling that devastated the Old City. It was your beloved Americans that caused Manila to be the second most devastated city of the war, next to Warsaw. It was also the American Congress thatheld hostage the funds for the reconstruction of Manila. The Americans would have only given us $500 if we didn't amend our constitution to give the Americans equal rights in exploiting our natural resources. If you're too lazy to look at the link, I'll quote the relevant passage for you:

The Philippine Rehabilitation Act of 1946 and Bell Trade Act. During his third and last visit to the United States President Osmeña appeared before the executive session of the Committee on Territories and Insular Affairs of the United States Senate to plead for immediate rehabilitation of the Philippines. In response to this plea, the US Senate promptly passed the Philippine Rehabilitation Bill, introduced by Senator Millard, on December 5, 1945. On April 10, 1946, the US House of Representatives passed the said bill, as amended. On April 30, President Truman approved the bill and became Public Law 370. The law appropriated a sum of $520,000,000 (Php 1,040,000,000) for the rehabilitation of the Philippines, and transferred $100,000,000 worth of surplus materials to the Philippine Government.

Likewise, The Bell Trade Bill, which established trade relations between the Philippines and the United States after independence, was passed by the United States House of Representatives on March 29, 1946 and by the United States Senate on April 13, 1946.

Many welcome the two legislations with renewed optimism, albeit there were some disappointment over a rider which provided that no claim for war damages above $500 (Php 1,000) should be paid unless an amendment to the Constitution was made so as to give Americans equal rights in the operation of public utilities and the exploitation of natural resources.

On March 11,1947 the Filipinos took the bitter pill and approved the amendment to the Constitution granting United States citizens rights to the disposition exploitation, development and utilization of Philippine natural resources. With the approval of the parity amendments, it made ineffective the provisions of the War Damage Act limiting the maximum payment by the Philippine War Damage Commission to $500 to any one claimant.

Philippine Rehabilitation Act:

Title VI- General Provisions
Sec. 601. No payments under Title I of this Act in excess of $500 shall be made until an executive agreement shall have been entered into between the President of the United States and the President of the Philippines, and such agreement shall have become effective according to its terms, providing for trade relations between the United States and the Philippines, and which agreement shall also provide for the same offenses, and penalties upon conviction, thereof, as are set forth in section 107 and section 108 of Title I of this Act.

7. I said specifically 'ESTABLISHING COUNTRIES', thus India, Bengal, Burma, and The Indus Valley does not count for by far they were civilisations of their own, with their own culture, the only thing they probably retain from the British is a weird copy of their Governmental system, the English language, and the use of English Common Law in their legal system, apart from that, it's still pretty much distinctly their own respective cultures. As for British Africa, Botswana is a shining testament to British Institutions being left behind to be wisely used to create a model state in a continent so full of problems. I mean South Africa, a nation full of problems is the MOST DEVELOPED NATION IN ALL OF AFRICA, so that in itself is supposed to make a statement... Well a double statement really, one that Africa really really really needs to increase its standards at-least to Botswana levels, and two that despite the poverty still prevalent in the continent, British colonised nations in Africa are relatively well off than their neighboring none English colonised states.

Looking at two nations and thinking "oh that must mean colonization works!" and ignoring centuries of massacres, racial segregation, slavery, subjugation of cultures for more "civilized" Western ones. You need to get rid of your colonial mentality.

8. As I said, the Institutions and cultural backbone that the English left these countries were the backbone that led to their success, I mean don't you find it odd, that in our state we have a cultural practice that makes us hire maids and handy men to do our dirty work, while the developed Anglicized World, such as the States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, heck even the Republic of Ireland, has a culture of 'do it yourself'? Because I find it extremely odd, that we have a very lazy upper class in our country that looks upon the less educated of our society and views them as nothing more than second class citizens because they're too gosh darn lazy to get off their chairs and teach our less capable in society, meanwhile having only lived about 5 years in both New Zealand and Australia, I've noticed that not only do rich people help poor people because they're nice, but because it benefits them, I mean a smarter population is a more industrious population, and a more industrious population means a more favorable business climate for the elite, so I'm really at a loss over the system currently in place back home.

The fact that we think so little of ourselves as a people compared to the West only proves my point that "Anglicized" colonization was a bad thing. You can't call this "do it yourself" mentality a purely Western thing. It's a people thing. Some people are lazy, that's it. Whole countries and cultures and peoples can't be lazy it's just a fact that you continue to deny. I don't understand what made you turn into somebody who hates your country so much. You need to come home and get rid of that cozy little bubble you've made for yourself in Australia. And I do hope you also understand just how much of a fucking elitist you are because this kind of bullshit isn't going to help anybody, much less yourself.

[Novus America]

1. Cultural inferiority is an actual issue, as opposed to let's say 'racial' inferiority, at the end of the day, slavery was culturally acceptable, however has been outlawed because it is an inferior cultural practice, what I'm essentially getting at here is that cultural inferiority are not race issues as they are with regards to the practices done by people who CHOOSE to do them, not something that they're born with like let's say... Skin color.

Yeah cause Hitler didn't kill the white Jews. You, sir, are trying to be apologetic about your racism by calling out some kind of pseudo-scientific notion of "cultural inferiority." Stop it.

2. Yeah, those practices WERE inferior, that's why they DON'T DO THEM ANYMORE. Does the Middle East still practice Female Genital Mutilation or arranged marriages of their 10 year old daughters or you know... Not allowing their women to DRIVE? Yes? Then clearly those are CULTURAL PRACTICES, or rather, those are CULTURALLY INFERIOR PRACTICES, relative to Western culture and when I say 'Western culture' I mean MODERN Western culture quite obviously.

You know what else is inferior? Thinking other cultures are inferior. They're not inferior, they're different. They're not inferior, they're traditionalists and you're just too stuck in your liberal "modernized" Westernized bubble in Australia to get with the times and understand that not everybody is like you. Don't do it. Yes, there are people out there who wholly believe that women shouldn't be allowed to drive - but that makes them bad people, it doesn't mean their "culture" is inferior.

3. So what do you want to call the people who WILLINGLY voted the worst President in the history of our nation since Marcos himself? Because they sure as hell don't come under the category of 'intelligent', not unless they regret voting him in, however the problem here is that Duterte is STILL POPULAR, meaning that DESPITE HIS DISASTROUS POLICIES, people STILL SUPPORT HIM ON MASSE, and that masse includes members of my own family, and sure my family of doctors are smart and what not, but when it comes to politics and the welfare of the state they are quote end quote 'uneducated', so don't pretend as if the people who allow this buffoon of a man to remain in power as opposed to supporting the current legitimate impeachment case against him are 'victims' because allowing him to remain in power and refusing to listen to reason is just as much of a crime as letting corrupt policemen kill innocent foreign business men, under the guise of the 'drug' policy.

Galit ka ata, brad. They're not stupid, they're not unintelligent. Would you call Stormwrath unintelligent for voting and continuing to support Duterte? Of course not. We may think them misguided, but they have their reasons and that doesn't make them stupid. You need to get out of your bubble.

4. Yeah, as if I was clearly able to hold heavy political sway while I was advising WHOLE COMMUNITIES while I was there during the campaign trail, let me tell you how dire it is in the countryside, MOST PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ELECTRICITY FOR UPWARDS OF 12 HOURS in many islands, when I was telling them about what Duterte said about the Pope they were shocked, that's how bad the information spread was, and this was just a few sprawled out islands off the coast of Bohol which housed THOUSANDS OF ELIGIBLE VOTERS. I did everything I could to prevent people from voting for Binay first and foremost, and for Duterte after his stunt with the Pope, but obviously I'm not a T.V. personality, I mean WHAT CHANCE DO YOU THINK I HAVE WHEN GOSH DARN DIDDLY ALDUB GAVE THEIR DARN OFFICIAL SUPPORT TO DUTERTE??? So, excuse me for being a bit snark and cynical towards your naive statement of 'if you're not in the country' because not only is that naive, it's insulting, because it discredits the importance of the OFW vote, you know the population that boasts about 7 or so MILLION PEOPLE.

HA. As if being part of the campaign trail is "immersing" yourself into their world. As if knowing the fact that they don't have stable electricity is "oh look at me I know about the plight of the poor." Buddy, you don't know shit. You're in Australia. The OFW v ote the way they would vote where they are - the OFWs voted for Duterte because Duterte is the proto-Trump, the beginning of the far-right movement. It's expected and it's saddening. You're equating my dismissal of you to my dismissal of the overseas Filipino. I'm not dismissing them, I'm just dismissing you.

5. All I'm hearing is: You're mad because they thought of us as monkeys when they were giving us essentially FREE HEALTHCARE, EDUCATION, PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, DEFENSIVE WEAPONRY, IMPERATIVE TRADE IMPORTANCE, and PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE?
Wow, they sure were monsters weren't they huh?
I mean it's not like the Spanish did the same thing BUT WORSE or anything, no no no. (sarcasm, obviously)

And all I'm hearing is: You're mad because I don't think American colonization was a good thing. It obviously isn't. Get with the times, we're postcolonial now. They forbade the education of the Filipino language, for years before the creation of the National Assembly they forbade the flying of the Filipino flag or any other revolutionary symbol. For years after and during the war, the revolutionaries were turned into "bandits" by the American press in the Philippines who wouldn't acknowledge the legitimacy of their fight. For years afterward the Philippine-American War was called not that but the Philippine Insurrection, calling their colonization something legitimate. For years after our independence it was us who relied on American trade because that was their design. They wouldn't free us from their grip.

6. Uh no, the rise of communism in Asia was thanks in part to the growth of communism as a major force to fill the vacuum that was the Empire of Japan, luckily, it was also partially filled by the Americans.
Also it wasn't the Americans who impoverished the country side, for even you have just stated that the Americans helped with the development of the country side's agricultural practices at the time, which obviously equals a better standard of living, especially if you consider how spread out the English language and thus the education services were in the country side. No,the impoverishment was caused by the war which devastated the institutions set up by the Americans, I mean do you think if the Japanese never bombed our cities and the historical monuments and parks and historic building that were demolished and replaced by squatter houses as a result of the imperative to rebuild industry first would have happened? At the end of the day, quite a few of our nation's most educated and wealthy people evacuated the country, the devastation of the cities caused the price of land to decline significantly, people in the country side saw this as an opportunity to move to cheap homes in the rebuilding cities and work in the relatively more profitable factories, however the sacrifice was our boulevards, parks and standards of living for future generations to come.

You obviously don't understand our own history. I'm talking about the rise of communism in the Philippines.

Where did I say that? Yes they helped but they didn't do shit for the everyman. All they helped were the people in Manila who could afford the American way of life. The "power vacuum" that was left in rural Philippines was thanks to the new generation of landlords who went to Manila for a better life, leaving their lands in the hands of the impoverished who took over because of deteriorating conditions at the hands of their landbosses who worked for the landlords and extorted from the peasantry more than the fair share of the landlord. They were already impoverished by the time Japan came. Does the name Carlos Bulosan mean anything to you? There's a reason thousands of Filipinos migrated during this time to the American West Coast: because they weren't being helped by the Americans here in the Philippines.

I also need to remind you that it wasn't the Japanese who bombed Manila. Manila was turned into an open city and it was American shelling that devastated the Old City. It was your beloved Americans that caused Manila to be the second most devastated city of the war, next to Warsaw. It was also the American Congress thatheld hostage the funds for the reconstruction of Manila. The Americans would have only given us $500 if we didn't amend our constitution to give the Americans equal rights in exploiting our natural resources. If you're too lazy to look at the link, I'll quote the relevant passage for you:

The Philippine Rehabilitation Act of 1946 and Bell Trade Act. During his third and last visit to the United States President Osmeña appeared before the executive session of the Committee on Territories and Insular Affairs of the United States Senate to plead for immediate rehabilitation of the Philippines. In response to this plea, the US Senate promptly passed the Philippine Rehabilitation Bill, introduced by Senator Millard, on December 5, 1945. On April 10, 1946, the US House of Representatives passed the said bill, as amended. On April 30, President Truman approved the bill and became Public Law 370. The law appropriated a sum of $520,000,000 (Php 1,040,000,000) for the rehabilitation of the Philippines, and transferred $100,000,000 worth of surplus materials to the Philippine Government.

Likewise, The Bell Trade Bill, which established trade relations between the Philippines and the United States after independence, was passed by the United States House of Representatives on March 29, 1946 and by the United States Senate on April 13, 1946.

Many welcome the two legislations with renewed optimism, albeit there were some disappointment over a rider which provided that no claim for war damages above $500 (Php 1,000) should be paid unless an amendment to the Constitution was made so as to give Americans equal rights in the operation of public utilities and the exploitation of natural resources.

On March 11,1947 the Filipinos took the bitter pill and approved the amendment to the Constitution granting United States citizens rights to the disposition exploitation, development and utilization of Philippine natural resources. With the approval of the parity amendments, it made ineffective the provisions of the War Damage Act limiting the maximum payment by the Philippine War Damage Commission to $500 to any one claimant.

Philippine Rehabilitation Act:

Title VI- General Provisions
Sec. 601. No payments under Title I of this Act in excess of $500 shall be made until an executive agreement shall have been entered into between the President of the United States and the President of the Philippines, and such agreement shall have become effective according to its terms, providing for trade relations between the United States and the Philippines, and which agreement shall also provide for the same offenses, and penalties upon conviction, thereof, as are set forth in section 107 and section 108 of Title I of this Act.

7. I said specifically 'ESTABLISHING COUNTRIES', thus India, Bengal, Burma, and The Indus Valley does not count for by far they were civilisations of their own, with their own culture, the only thing they probably retain from the British is a weird copy of their Governmental system, the English language, and the use of English Common Law in their legal system, apart from that, it's still pretty much distinctly their own respective cultures. As for British Africa, Botswana is a shining testament to British Institutions being left behind to be wisely used to create a model state in a continent so full of problems. I mean South Africa, a nation full of problems is the MOST DEVELOPED NATION IN ALL OF AFRICA, so that in itself is supposed to make a statement... Well a double statement really, one that Africa really really really needs to increase its standards at-least to Botswana levels, and two that despite the poverty still prevalent in the continent, British colonised nations in Africa are relatively well off than their neighboring none English colonised states.

Looking at two nations and thinking "oh that must mean colonization works!" and ignoring centuries of massacres, racial segregation, slavery, subjugation of cultures for more "civilized" Western ones. You need to get rid of your colonial mentality.

8. As I said, the Institutions and cultural backbone that the English left these countries were the backbone that led to their success, I mean don't you find it odd, that in our state we have a cultural practice that makes us hire maids and handy men to do our dirty work, while the developed Anglicized World, such as the States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, heck even the Republic of Ireland, has a culture of 'do it yourself'? Because I find it extremely odd, that we have a very lazy upper class in our country that looks upon the less educated of our society and views them as nothing more than second class citizens because they're too gosh darn lazy to get off their chairs and teach our less capable in society, meanwhile having only lived about 5 years in both New Zealand and Australia, I've noticed that not only do rich people help poor people because they're nice, but because it benefits them, I mean a smarter population is a more industrious population, and a more industrious population means a more favorable business climate for the elite, so I'm really at a loss over the system currently in place back home.

The fact that we think so little of ourselves as a people compared to the West only proves my point that "Anglicized" colonization was a bad thing. You can't call this "do it yourself" mentality a purely Western thing. It's a people thing. Some people are lazy, that's it. Whole countries and cultures and peoples can't be lazy it's just a fact that you continue to deny. I don't understand what made you turn into somebody who hates your country so much. You need to come home and get rid of that cozy little bubble you've made for yourself in Australia. And I do hope you also understand just how much of a fucking elitist you are because this kind of bullshit isn't going to help anybody, much less yourself.

The truth, as usual, lies somewhere in between. You are often unfairly hostile to the US.
For example, Manila. The US declared it an open city and did not fight in it to spare it from during the initial Japanese invasion. We did what we could to preserve it.

In 1945 the Japanese did NOT respond in kind. It was no longer a an open city. Japan refused to leave, and fought building to building.

Worse the Japanese were raping and murdering every civilian they could.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_massacre

So the US had to launch an all out attack to end things as quickly as possible to SAVE people from the Japanese. Had to destroy buildings that were full of Japanese soldiers.

It was sad, but we had no choice. What should we have done? Just wait until the Japanese had raped and murdered everyone?

Also as far as the $500, that was only until an agreement was worked out, after the agreement worked out it was increased. Sure requiring them to make trade concessions to get more aid was not a nice thing to do.

The US was not all good. We did d some bad things. But not all bad either. And were certainly better than the other options (Germany then Japan, or just Japan).

[Pasong Tirad]

Yeah cause Hitler didn't kill the white Jews. You, sir, are trying to be apologetic about your racism by calling out some kind of pseudo-scientific notion of "cultural inferiority." Stop it.


You know what else is inferior? Thinking other cultures are inferior. They're not inferior, they're different. They're not inferior, they're traditionalists and you're just too stuck in your liberal "modernized" Westernized bubble in Australia to get with the times and understand that not everybody is like you. Don't do it. Yes, there are people out there who wholly believe that women shouldn't be allowed to drive - but that makes them bad people, it doesn't mean their "culture" is inferior.


Galit ka ata, brad. They're not stupid, they're not unintelligent. Would you call Stormwrath unintelligent for voting and continuing to support Duterte? Of course not. We may think them misguided, but they have their reasons and that doesn't make them stupid. You need to get out of your bubble.


HA. As if being part of the campaign trail is "immersing" yourself into their world. As if knowing the fact that they don't have stable electricity is "oh look at me I know about the plight of the poor." Buddy, you don't know shit. You're in Australia. The OFW v ote the way they would vote where they are - the OFWs voted for Duterte because Duterte is the proto-Trump, the beginning of the far-right movement. It's expected and it's saddening. You're equating my dismissal of you to my dismissal of the overseas Filipino. I'm not dismissing them, I'm just dismissing you.


And all I'm hearing is: You're mad because I don't think American colonization was a good thing. It obviously isn't. Get with the times, we're postcolonial now. They forbade the education of the Filipino language, for years before the creation of the National Assembly they forbade the flying of the Filipino flag or any other revolutionary symbol. For years after and during the war, the revolutionaries were turned into "bandits" by the American press in the Philippines who wouldn't acknowledge the legitimacy of their fight. For years afterward the Philippine-American War was called not that but the Philippine Insurrection, calling their colonization something legitimate. For years after our independence it was us who relied on American trade because that was their design. They wouldn't free us from their grip.


You obviously don't understand our own history. I'm talking about the rise of communism in the Philippines.

Where did I say that? Yes they helped but they didn't do shit for the everyman. All they helped were the people in Manila who could afford the American way of life. The "power vacuum" that was left in rural Philippines was thanks to the new generation of landlords who went to Manila for a better life, leaving their lands in the hands of the impoverished who took over because of deteriorating conditions at the hands of their landbosses who worked for the landlords and extorted from the peasantry more than the fair share of the landlord. They were already impoverished by the time Japan came. Does the name Carlos Bulosan mean anything to you? There's a reason thousands of Filipinos migrated during this time to the American West Coast: because they weren't being helped by the Americans here in the Philippines.

I also need to remind you that it wasn't the Japanese who bombed Manila. Manila was turned into an open city and it was American shelling that devastated the Old City. It was your beloved Americans that caused Manila to be the second most devastated city of the war, next to Warsaw. It was also the American Congress thatheld hostage the funds for the reconstruction of Manila. The Americans would have only given us $500 if we didn't amend our constitution to give the Americans equal rights in exploiting our natural resources. If you're too lazy to look at the link, I'll quote the relevant passage for you:

The Philippine Rehabilitation Act of 1946 and Bell Trade Act. During his third and last visit to the United States President Osmeña appeared before the executive session of the Committee on Territories and Insular Affairs of the United States Senate to plead for immediate rehabilitation of the Philippines. In response to this plea, the US Senate promptly passed the Philippine Rehabilitation Bill, introduced by Senator Millard, on December 5, 1945. On April 10, 1946, the US House of Representatives passed the said bill, as amended. On April 30, President Truman approved the bill and became Public Law 370. The law appropriated a sum of $520,000,000 (Php 1,040,000,000) for the rehabilitation of the Philippines, and transferred $100,000,000 worth of surplus materials to the Philippine Government.

Likewise, The Bell Trade Bill, which established trade relations between the Philippines and the United States after independence, was passed by the United States House of Representatives on March 29, 1946 and by the United States Senate on April 13, 1946.

Many welcome the two legislations with renewed optimism, albeit there were some disappointment over a rider which provided that no claim for war damages above $500 (Php 1,000) should be paid unless an amendment to the Constitution was made so as to give Americans equal rights in the operation of public utilities and the exploitation of natural resources.

On March 11,1947 the Filipinos took the bitter pill and approved the amendment to the Constitution granting United States citizens rights to the disposition exploitation, development and utilization of Philippine natural resources. With the approval of the parity amendments, it made ineffective the provisions of the War Damage Act limiting the maximum payment by the Philippine War Damage Commission to $500 to any one claimant.

Philippine Rehabilitation Act:

Title VI- General Provisions
Sec. 601. No payments under Title I of this Act in excess of $500 shall be made until an executive agreement shall have been entered into between the President of the United States and the President of the Philippines, and such agreement shall have become effective according to its terms, providing for trade relations between the United States and the Philippines, and which agreement shall also provide for the same offenses, and penalties upon conviction, thereof, as are set forth in section 107 and section 108 of Title I of this Act.

Looking at two nations and thinking "oh that must mean colonization works!" and ignoring centuries of massacres, racial segregation, slavery, subjugation of cultures for more "civilized" Western ones. You need to get rid of your colonial mentality.


The fact that we think so little of ourselves as a people compared to the West only proves my point that "Anglicized" colonization was a bad thing. You can't call this "do it yourself" mentality a purely Western thing. It's a people thing. Some people are lazy, that's it. Whole countries and cultures and peoples can't be lazy it's just a fact that you continue to deny. I don't understand what made you turn into somebody who hates your country so much. You need to come home and get rid of that cozy little bubble you've made for yourself in Australia. And I do hope you also understand just how much of a fucking elitist you are because this kind of bullshit isn't going to help anybody, much less yourself.

The truth, as usual, lies somewhere in between. You are often unfairly hostile to the US.
For example, Manila. The US declared it an open city and did not fight in it to spare it from during the initial Japanese invasion. We did what we could to preserve it.

In 1945 the Japanese did NOT respond in kind. It was no longer a an open city. Japan refused to leave, and fought building to building.

Worse the Japanese were raping and murdering every civilian they could.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_massacre

So the US had to launch an all out attack to end things as quickly as possible to SAVE people from the Japanese. Had to destroy buildings that were full of Japanese soldiers.

It was sad, but we had no choice. What should we have done? Just wait until the Japanese had raped and murdered everyone?

Also as far as the $500, that was only until an agreement was worked out, after the agreement worked out it was increased. Sure requiring them to make trade concessions to get more aid was not a nice thing to do.

The US was not all good. We did d some bad things. But not all bad either. And were certainly better than the other options (Germany then Japan, or just Japan).

No no no the truth isn't in between. It's so far from his side of the line he can't even recognize it anymore. I'm being hostile, yes, but I wouldn't call it unfair.

I know very well about the Rape of Manila, yes, but the US shelling still happened. Both are culpable in the destruction of Manila.

The reconstruction fund is something even you, unfortunately, cannot defend. It was evil to the highest level. The "agreement" that was worked out was Filipino sovereignty being signed over for American interests. For a time, Americans had equal rights to our natural resources. It was the bitter pill that we had to swallow, the grim reality that we had to face: instead of being given over a billion pesos for reconstruction, it was held hostage unless we would sign over our rights to our own natural resources.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

1. Cultural inferiority is an actual issue, as opposed to let's say 'racial' inferiority, at the end of the day, slavery was culturally acceptable, however has been outlawed because it is an inferior cultural practice, what I'm essentially getting at here is that cultural inferiority are not race issues as they are with regards to the practices done by people who CHOOSE to do them, not something that they're born with like let's say... Skin color.

Yeah cause Hitler didn't kill the white Jews. You, sir, are trying to be apologetic about your racism by calling out some kind of pseudo-scientific notion of "cultural inferiority." Stop it.

2. Yeah, those practices WERE inferior, that's why they DON'T DO THEM ANYMORE. Does the Middle East still practice Female Genital Mutilation or arranged marriages of their 10 year old daughters or you know... Not allowing their women to DRIVE? Yes? Then clearly those are CULTURAL PRACTICES, or rather, those are CULTURALLY INFERIOR PRACTICES, relative to Western culture and when I say 'Western culture' I mean MODERN Western culture quite obviously.

You know what else is inferior? Thinking other cultures are inferior. They're not inferior, they're different. They're not inferior, they're traditionalists and you're just too stuck in your liberal "modernized" Westernized bubble in Australia to get with the times and understand that not everybody is like you. Don't do it. Yes, there are people out there who wholly believe that women shouldn't be allowed to drive - but that makes them bad people, it doesn't mean their "culture" is inferior.

3. So what do you want to call the people who WILLINGLY voted the worst President in the history of our nation since Marcos himself? Because they sure as hell don't come under the category of 'intelligent', not unless they regret voting him in, however the problem here is that Duterte is STILL POPULAR, meaning that DESPITE HIS DISASTROUS POLICIES, people STILL SUPPORT HIM ON MASSE, and that masse includes members of my own family, and sure my family of doctors are smart and what not, but when it comes to politics and the welfare of the state they are quote end quote 'uneducated', so don't pretend as if the people who allow this buffoon of a man to remain in power as opposed to supporting the current legitimate impeachment case against him are 'victims' because allowing him to remain in power and refusing to listen to reason is just as much of a crime as letting corrupt policemen kill innocent foreign business men, under the guise of the 'drug' policy.

Galit ka ata, brad. They're not stupid, they're not unintelligent. Would you call Stormwrath unintelligent for voting and continuing to support Duterte? Of course not. We may think them misguided, but they have their reasons and that doesn't make them stupid. You need to get out of your bubble.

4. Yeah, as if I was clearly able to hold heavy political sway while I was advising WHOLE COMMUNITIES while I was there during the campaign trail, let me tell you how dire it is in the countryside, MOST PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ELECTRICITY FOR UPWARDS OF 12 HOURS in many islands, when I was telling them about what Duterte said about the Pope they were shocked, that's how bad the information spread was, and this was just a few sprawled out islands off the coast of Bohol which housed THOUSANDS OF ELIGIBLE VOTERS. I did everything I could to prevent people from voting for Binay first and foremost, and for Duterte after his stunt with the Pope, but obviously I'm not a T.V. personality, I mean WHAT CHANCE DO YOU THINK I HAVE WHEN GOSH DARN DIDDLY ALDUB GAVE THEIR DARN OFFICIAL SUPPORT TO DUTERTE??? So, excuse me for being a bit snark and cynical towards your naive statement of 'if you're not in the country' because not only is that naive, it's insulting, because it discredits the importance of the OFW vote, you know the population that boasts about 7 or so MILLION PEOPLE.

HA. As if being part of the campaign trail is "immersing" yourself into their world. As if knowing the fact that they don't have stable electricity is "oh look at me I know about the plight of the poor." Buddy, you don't know shit. You're in Australia. The OFW v ote the way they would vote where they are - the OFWs voted for Duterte because Duterte is the proto-Trump, the beginning of the far-right movement. It's expected and it's saddening. You're equating my dismissal of you to my dismissal of the overseas Filipino. I'm not dismissing them, I'm just dismissing you.

5. All I'm hearing is: You're mad because they thought of us as monkeys when they were giving us essentially FREE HEALTHCARE, EDUCATION, PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, DEFENSIVE WEAPONRY, IMPERATIVE TRADE IMPORTANCE, and PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE?
Wow, they sure were monsters weren't they huh?
I mean it's not like the Spanish did the same thing BUT WORSE or anything, no no no. (sarcasm, obviously)

And all I'm hearing is: You're mad because I don't think American colonization was a good thing. It obviously isn't. Get with the times, we're postcolonial now. They forbade the education of the Filipino language, for years before the creation of the National Assembly they forbade the flying of the Filipino flag or any other revolutionary symbol. For years after and during the war, the revolutionaries were turned into "bandits" by the American press in the Philippines who wouldn't acknowledge the legitimacy of their fight. For years afterward the Philippine-American War was called not that but the Philippine Insurrection, calling their colonization something legitimate. For years after our independence it was us who relied on American trade because that was their design. They wouldn't free us from their grip.

6. Uh no, the rise of communism in Asia was thanks in part to the growth of communism as a major force to fill the vacuum that was the Empire of Japan, luckily, it was also partially filled by the Americans.
Also it wasn't the Americans who impoverished the country side, for even you have just stated that the Americans helped with the development of the country side's agricultural practices at the time, which obviously equals a better standard of living, especially if you consider how spread out the English language and thus the education services were in the country side. No,the impoverishment was caused by the war which devastated the institutions set up by the Americans, I mean do you think if the Japanese never bombed our cities and the historical monuments and parks and historic building that were demolished and replaced by squatter houses as a result of the imperative to rebuild industry first would have happened? At the end of the day, quite a few of our nation's most educated and wealthy people evacuated the country, the devastation of the cities caused the price of land to decline significantly, people in the country side saw this as an opportunity to move to cheap homes in the rebuilding cities and work in the relatively more profitable factories, however the sacrifice was our boulevards, parks and standards of living for future generations to come.

You obviously don't understand our own history. I'm talking about the rise of communism in the Philippines.

Where did I say that? Yes they helped but they didn't do shit for the everyman. All they helped were the people in Manila who could afford the American way of life. The "power vacuum" that was left in rural Philippines was thanks to the new generation of landlords who went to Manila for a better life, leaving their lands in the hands of the impoverished who took over because of deteriorating conditions at the hands of their landbosses who worked for the landlords and extorted from the peasantry more than the fair share of the landlord. They were already impoverished by the time Japan came. Does the name Carlos Bulosan mean anything to you? There's a reason thousands of Filipinos migrated during this time to the American West Coast: because they weren't being helped by the Americans here in the Philippines.

I also need to remind you that it wasn't the Japanese who bombed Manila. Manila was turned into an open city and it was American shelling that devastated the Old City. It was your beloved Americans that caused Manila to be the second most devastated city of the war, next to Warsaw. It was also the American Congress thatheld hostage the funds for the reconstruction of Manila. The Americans would have only given us $500 if we didn't amend our constitution to give the Americans equal rights in exploiting our natural resources. If you're too lazy to look at the link, I'll quote the relevant passage for you:

The Philippine Rehabilitation Act of 1946 and Bell Trade Act. During his third and last visit to the United States President Osmeña appeared before the executive session of the Committee on Territories and Insular Affairs of the United States Senate to plead for immediate rehabilitation of the Philippines. In response to this plea, the US Senate promptly passed the Philippine Rehabilitation Bill, introduced by Senator Millard, on December 5, 1945. On April 10, 1946, the US House of Representatives passed the said bill, as amended. On April 30, President Truman approved the bill and became Public Law 370. The law appropriated a sum of $520,000,000 (Php 1,040,000,000) for the rehabilitation of the Philippines, and transferred $100,000,000 worth of surplus materials to the Philippine Government.

Likewise, The Bell Trade Bill, which established trade relations between the Philippines and the United States after independence, was passed by the United States House of Representatives on March 29, 1946 and by the United States Senate on April 13, 1946.

Many welcome the two legislations with renewed optimism, albeit there were some disappointment over a rider which provided that no claim for war damages above $500 (Php 1,000) should be paid unless an amendment to the Constitution was made so as to give Americans equal rights in the operation of public utilities and the exploitation of natural resources.

On March 11,1947 the Filipinos took the bitter pill and approved the amendment to the Constitution granting United States citizens rights to the disposition exploitation, development and utilization of Philippine natural resources. With the approval of the parity amendments, it made ineffective the provisions of the War Damage Act limiting the maximum payment by the Philippine War Damage Commission to $500 to any one claimant.

Philippine Rehabilitation Act:

Title VI- General Provisions
Sec. 601. No payments under Title I of this Act in excess of $500 shall be made until an executive agreement shall have been entered into between the President of the United States and the President of the Philippines, and such agreement shall have become effective according to its terms, providing for trade relations between the United States and the Philippines, and which agreement shall also provide for the same offenses, and penalties upon conviction, thereof, as are set forth in section 107 and section 108 of Title I of this Act.

7. I said specifically 'ESTABLISHING COUNTRIES', thus India, Bengal, Burma, and The Indus Valley does not count for by far they were civilisations of their own, with their own culture, the only thing they probably retain from the British is a weird copy of their Governmental system, the English language, and the use of English Common Law in their legal system, apart from that, it's still pretty much distinctly their own respective cultures. As for British Africa, Botswana is a shining testament to British Institutions being left behind to be wisely used to create a model state in a continent so full of problems. I mean South Africa, a nation full of problems is the MOST DEVELOPED NATION IN ALL OF AFRICA, so that in itself is supposed to make a statement... Well a double statement really, one that Africa really really really needs to increase its standards at-least to Botswana levels, and two that despite the poverty still prevalent in the continent, British colonised nations in Africa are relatively well off than their neighboring none English colonised states.

Looking at two nations and thinking "oh that must mean colonization works!" and ignoring centuries of massacres, racial segregation, slavery, subjugation of cultures for more "civilized" Western ones. You need to get rid of your colonial mentality.

8. As I said, the Institutions and cultural backbone that the English left these countries were the backbone that led to their success, I mean don't you find it odd, that in our state we have a cultural practice that makes us hire maids and handy men to do our dirty work, while the developed Anglicized World, such as the States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, heck even the Republic of Ireland, has a culture of 'do it yourself'? Because I find it extremely odd, that we have a very lazy upper class in our country that looks upon the less educated of our society and views them as nothing more than second class citizens because they're too gosh darn lazy to get off their chairs and teach our less capable in society, meanwhile having only lived about 5 years in both New Zealand and Australia, I've noticed that not only do rich people help poor people because they're nice, but because it benefits them, I mean a smarter population is a more industrious population, and a more industrious population means a more favorable business climate for the elite, so I'm really at a loss over the system currently in place back home.

The fact that we think so little of ourselves as a people compared to the West only proves my point that "Anglicized" colonization was a bad thing. You can't call this "do it yourself" mentality a purely Western thing. It's a people thing. Some people are lazy, that's it. Whole countries and cultures and peoples can't be lazy it's just a fact that you continue to deny. I don't understand what made you turn into somebody who hates your country so much. You need to come home and get rid of that cozy little bubble you've made for yourself in Australia. And I do hope you also understand just how much of a fucking elitist you are because this kind of bullshit isn't going to help anybody, much less yourself.

1. Again, this statement just shows how misguided and sensitive you are that you can't even distinguish the definition between 'CULTURE' and 'RACE', if I were a 'racist' my point would be that the race of one people was inferior relative to another, now SHOW ME ONE INSTANCE, JUST FREAKING ONE OF EVER SAYING SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, and you'd have a point, in fact you have the ability to report on me to Moderation, otherwise, you describing me as a 'racist' for describing CULTURAL PRACTICES which are INFERIOR (in this day and age) of certain cultures throughout the World, will be seen as nothing more than an attempt to try and garner a 'flame reaction' and as such will be treated as a 'flame baiting' incident.

2. I understand that point, what you don't seem to understand is that MY POINT HAS BEEN ABOUT THE INFERIOR CULTURAL PRACTICES WITHIN THE CULTURES, NOT THE CULTURES THEMSELVES. I advocate for reform, not for replacement, do you think if the Filipino culture still practiced slavery I would call for it to be completely replaced? Heck no, I'd call for the abolition of slavery, in the same sense, I call on certain cultures with inferior cultural PRACTICES to END those culturally inferior PRACTICES, PERIOD.

3. Actually, yes, I am mad, you wanna know why? Because all the disasterous factors that YOU SAID EARLIER CAUSED BY THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK. And as to whether or not they're idiotic, that depends, if they know what Duterte is doing and still continues to support him, then yes, that would by definition make them an 'idiot' because what an idiot is, is someone who despite knowing what is the best choice for themselves still chooses the less than optimal choice. And in many cases, this is what a clear majority of the population is DOING, they've seen he's a LIAR, they've seen he's a PETULANT CHILD, they've seen he's a NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT, they've seen he's a TRAITOR TO THE PHILIPPINE PEOPLE, yet they continue to support him, I'll give you that given the isolation of certain regions of the country, that there are those who don't know what he has done and continues to support him blindly, to that I say fair enough, but the CLEAR MAJORITY OF HIS SUPPORTERS HAVE SEEN, and they CONTINUE TO SUPPORT HIM, and by definition, they are what one would call 'idiotic'.

4. Despite the fact that you've lived there longer, doesn't give you any sort of bragging rights over me when it comes to poverty, in fact I've probably seen more of it than you have, whether it be Zambales, Tagaytay, Bohol, Cebu, Parañaque, Novaliches, Sampalok, Quezon City, Calbayog, Naval, or even TACLOBAN, which if I remind you is where a significant part of my family is from. In fact, I've also seen poverty in New Zealand and Australia, Middle Class relative to back home, but poor here, I've seen more poverty than you can ever know, I mean what do you know? You've never had to go back home to Tacloban TO BURY SEVERAL OF YOUR COUSINS, neither have you had to see the devastation of an earthquake in Bohol to which they're still pretty much recovering from to this day, the point is, just because you see it daily, doesn't mean you see more of it. It's caused by decades worth of Government incompetence, plain and simple, Aquino couldn't fix all the problems of basically 30 years worth of Presidents before him up to Marcos, that's just impossible in 6 years, but he did give us our hope again, however now, those who are intelligent enough have lost it again, as the new Administration tears down the improvements done one by one, so get used to seeing poverty, because unless the buffoon is removed from power, there will be no hope for the destitute.
Not to mention, since when did the OFW community as a majority vote for Duterte? If I remember correctly, the OFW community largely either voted either for Poe or for Roxas.

5. By design? The United States was and IS the LARGEST ECONOMIC POWERHOUSE IN THE WORLD. Obviously we never traded as much with other states because they had NOTHING TO OFFER, America had cars, refrigerators, AIRPLANES, irons, and telephones, they were the leading manufacturer of basically EVERYTHING USEFUL, I mean what did China have to offer? Or Japan? Or The Soviet Union? It was our INDEPENDENT CHOICE WHO TO TRADE WITH, you of all people should understand this, after the year 1946.
Also, it's funny how hypocrtical you are in readily criticising the American colonisation efforts, yet not even say ANYTHING about the Spanish, despite my stipulations, uh hello, the Spanish were there for 350 years, not only did they commit cultural genocide of the locals, which by your morals and ethics is unacceptable, they also LITTERALY enslaved us, the Americans sure were treacherous at first, but developed us into the nation with the HIGHEST STANDARD OF LIVING IN THE WHOLE REGION if not continent, and failure to acknowledge that is basically just sugar coating the failure that an Independent First Philippine Republic would entail. It's pretty much nonesense, and besides no matter what you say about the Americans, we are still the most pro-American nation on Earth nothing short of a war with them will change that perception, I mean the Americans did more to help my family and our people in Tacloban than you ever can, and as such you have nothing on them.

6. Uh, yeah Manila WAS declared an Open City, but guess what? THE JAPANESE STILL BOMBED IT ANYWAY. It's so hypocritical when you say: 'Oh you know nothing about our history' when you clearly don't know it yourself.
And what do you mean before the Japanese? We were possibly the most Industrialised Agricultural state in all of South East Asia, our economy was going nowhere but up, and we had preferential trade treatment when it came to American trade, DESPITE The Great Depression. I mean no offense to your knowledge of history, but if you recall, during the Depression, countries put up huge tariffs which basically destroyed Global trade, however there wasn't any trade barriers imposed on us by The Americans which really helped our nation get through all that mess with barely a scratch.

7. I never ignore those, why do you think I said that the French and Spanish colonies were disasters? Also, I said that the British HELPED create the modern power nations we know today by leaving behind valuable Institutions, I never said that slavery was a good thing or massacres. And my point was that American colonisation was a good thing, as it helped develop us into a more modern state than our brother and sister in Latin America, again, I point to Argentina, Peru, Venezuela, and Cuba, heck look at all the Spanish speaking states while you're at it.

8. Elitist? Talk about Oxymoronic, at this point in time you think that because of your having to SEE poverty on a daily basis means you're somehow 'better' than I am because you view yourself as having the ability to be close to that plight, yet you're not doing half the stuff I do to alleviate poverty back home, you don't send money back home which drives the economy forward and increases consumption spending, you're not going home on holidays and spending well needed tourist money in local markets which again drives up consumption spending, you're not teaching poor children English like what I did with the children of the maid in my Aunt's house, neither are you doing anything or have done anything to directly influence our political system, meanwhile I've talked to people in whole communities whom not to vote for, heck, I bet you don't even know the Sections and Articles in the Constitution that effectively gives legitimate reason as to why the President should be impeached, what's sad here is that you can't get an outside perspective on what's going on, not only do I see it on the outside, I see it on the inside too as I go home every year, yes it's expensive, yes I could be otherwise saving my money and paying off my student debts, but I love my country so much that those sacrifices are just worth it, meanwhile you've probably just stayed in the same city or area for years at a time never contributing to the direct alleviation of poverty, you know, unlike me, the so called quote end quote 'elitist'.

[Pasong Tirad]

1. Again, this statement just shows how misguided and sensitive you are that you can't even distinguish the definition between 'CULTURE' and 'RACE', if I were a 'racist' my point would be that the race of one people was inferior relative to another, now SHOW ME ONE INSTANCE, JUST FREAKING ONE OF EVER SAYING SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, and you'd have a point, in fact you have the ability to report on me to Moderation, otherwise, you describing me as a 'racist' for describing CULTURAL PRACTICES which are INFERIOR (in this day and age) of certain cultures throughout the World, will be seen as nothing more than an attempt to try and garner a 'flame reaction' and as such will be treated as a 'flame baiting' incident.

2. I understand that point, what you don't seem to understand is that MY POINT HAS BEEN ABOUT THE INFERIOR CULTURAL PRACTICES WITHIN THE CULTURES, NOT THE CULTURES THEMSELVES. I advocate for reform, not for replacement, do you think if the Filipino culture still practiced slavery I would call for it to be completely replaced? Heck no, I'd call for the abolition of slavery, in the same sense, I call on certain cultures with inferior cultural PRACTICES to END those culturally inferior PRACTICES, PERIOD.

Culture defines people. It defines that social construct known as race. What you believe as being separate are not. They're intertwined and no amount of hitting the caps button is going to change that.

3. Actually, yes, I am mad, you wanna know why? Because all the disasterous factors that YOU SAID EARLIER CAUSED BY THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK. And as to whether or not they're idiotic, that depends, if they know what Duterte is doing and still continues to support him, then yes, that would by definition make them an 'idiot' because what an idiot is, is someone who despite knowing what is the best choice for themselves still chooses the less than optimal choice. And in many cases, this is what a clear majority of the population is DOING, they've seen he's a LIAR, they've seen he's a PETULANT CHILD, they've seen he's a NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT, they've seen he's a TRAITOR TO THE PHILIPPINE PEOPLE, yet they continue to support him, I'll give you that given the isolation of certain regions of the country, that there are those who don't know what he has done and continues to support him blindly, to that I say fair enough, but the CLEAR MAJORITY OF HIS SUPPORTERS HAVE SEEN, and they CONTINUE TO SUPPORT HIM, and by definition, they are what one would call 'idiotic'.

It's a lot more nuanced than that and you don't seem to understand it. Might I suggest reading this? You need to understand that just because we believe Duterte to be doing something wrong, it doesn't give us any right to hover over the heads of his supporters and claim some kind of moral high ground above them. To paraphrase Vic II: "Don't be a normie liberal."

4. Despite the fact that you've lived there longer, doesn't give you any sort of bragging rights over me when it comes to poverty, in fact I've probably seen more of it than you have, whether it be Zambales, Tagaytay, Bohol, Cebu, Parañaque, Novaliches, Sampalok, Quezon City, Calbayog, Naval, or even TACLOBAN, which if I remind you is where a significant part of my family is from. In fact, I've also seen poverty in New Zealand and Australia, Middle Class relative to back home, but poor here, I've seen more poverty than you can ever know, I mean what do you know? You've never had to go back home to Tacloban TO BURY SEVERAL OF YOUR COUSINS, neither have you had to see the devastation of an earthquake in Bohol to which they're still pretty much recovering from to this day, the point is, just because you see it daily, doesn't mean you see more of it. It's caused by decades worth of Government incompetence, plain and simple, Aquino couldn't fix all the problems of basically 30 years worth of Presidents before him up to Marcos, that's just impossible in 6 years, but he did give us our hope again, however now, those who are intelligent enough have lost it again, as the new Administration tears down the improvements done one by one, so get used to seeing poverty, because unless the buffoon is removed from power, there will be no hope for the destitute.
Not to mention, since when did the OFW community as a majority vote for Duterte? If I remember correctly, the OFW community largely either voted either for Poe or for Roxas.

Aba aba, and what the flying fuck makes you think I've never had to bury people because of Yolanda, ha? See, that's the difference with us, eh. You claim to have seen more poverty, but I live it, brad. I still live it. Don't try and hover over my head about how you're sooo much better at understanding the plight of the poor. You're not poor and that's the big factor here.

And as for the OFW vote...

5. By design? The United States was and IS the LARGEST ECONOMIC POWERHOUSE IN THE WORLD. Obviously we never traded as much with other states because they had NOTHING TO OFFER, America had cars, refrigerators, AIRPLANES, irons, and telephones, they were the leading manufacturer of basically EVERYTHING USEFUL, I mean what did China have to offer? Or Japan? Or The Soviet Union? It was our INDEPENDENT CHOICE WHO TO TRADE WITH, you of all people should understand this, after the year 1946.
Also, it's funny how hypocrtical you are in readily criticising the American colonisation efforts, yet not even say ANYTHING about the Spanish, despite my stipulations, uh hello, the Spanish were there for 350 years, not only did they commit cultural genocide of the locals, which by your morals and ethics is unacceptable, they also LITTERALY enslaved us, the Americans sure were treacherous at first, but developed us into the nation with the HIGHEST STANDARD OF LIVING IN THE WHOLE REGION if not continent, and failure to acknowledge that is basically just sugar coating the failure that an Independent First Philippine Republic would entail. It's pretty much nonesense, and besides no matter what you say about the Americans, we are still the most pro-American nation on Earth nothing short of a war with them will change that perception, I mean the Americans did more to help my family and our people in Tacloban than you ever can, and as such you have nothing on them.

It was by design. They didn't give us the economic freedom to trade with anyone else because they basically controlled our natural resources - a point you seem to want to ignore to further your own.

Because we're not talking about the Spanish. I'm not going to venture into the territory of "eh paano naman ang kasalanan ng mga Kastila?" We all know fully well their sins and are no doubt in agreement of it. And you need to really back up your claims of the "best standard of living" in Asia. The fact of the matter is that whether or not the Malolos Republic would have failed, whether or not it would have devolved into a dictatorship of the Caviteño elite (it would have), it would have been our mistakes, our problems. Yeah I'm not talking about American help now, I'm talking about American colonization. Of course they did more than the local (and even to an extent, the national) government to help the survivors in Tacloban, but that's not the point - neither is our being the most pro-American part of the point.

6. Uh, yeah Manila WAS declared an Open City, but guess what? THE JAPANESE STILL BOMBED IT ANYWAY. It's so hypocritical when you say: 'Oh you know nothing about our history' when you clearly don't know it yourself.
And what do you mean before the Japanese? We were possibly the most Industrialised Agricultural state in all of South East Asia, our economy was going nowhere but up, and we had preferential trade treatment when it came to American trade, DESPITE The Great Depression. I mean no offense to your knowledge of history, but if you recall, during the Depression, countries put up huge tariffs which basically destroyed Global trade, however there wasn't any trade barriers imposed on us by The Americans which really helped our nation get through all that mess with barely a scratch.

You're trying to compare the Japanese bombing of Manila with the American shelling. The level of destruction isn't even comparable.

7. I never ignore those, why do you think I said that the French and Spanish colonies were disasters? Also, I said that the British HELPED create the modern power nations we know today by leaving behind valuable Institutions, I never said that slavery was a good thing or massacres. And my point was that American colonisation was a good thing, as it helped develop us into a more modern state than our brother and sister in Latin America, again, I point to Argentina, Peru, Venezuela, and Cuba, heck look at all the Spanish speaking states while you're at it.

I am taking a look at them and I think you're dead wrong on just how developed South America is. I think you're also dead wrong on how the benefits of American colonization outweigh the cost - it didn't. Marcos and Duterte combined don't have shit on how many people the Americans killed - not to mention the fact that they sowed the seeds of (dare I use the word?) destabilization that led to the now widening divide between Muslim and Christian in Mindanao, as well as approving the plan to re-settle Filipino Christians in Mindanao to aid in bringing up the Christian population up to par with the Muslim one.

8. Elitist? Talk about Oxymoronic, at this point in time you think that because of your having to SEE poverty on a daily basis means you're somehow 'better' than I am because you view yourself as having the ability to be close to that plight, yet you're not doing half the stuff I do to alleviate poverty back home, you don't send money back home which drives the economy forward and increases consumption spending, you're not going home on holidays and spending well needed tourist money in local markets which again drives up consumption spending, you're not teaching poor children English like what I did with the children of the maid in my Aunt's house, neither are you doing anything or have done anything to directly influence our political system, meanwhile I've talked to people in whole communities whom not to vote for, heck, I bet you don't even know the Sections and Articles in the Constitution that effectively gives legitimate reason as to why the President should be impeached, what's sad here is that you can't get an outside perspective on what's going on, not only do I see it on the outside, I see it on the inside too as I go home every year, yes it's expensive, yes I could be otherwise saving my money and paying off my student debts, but I love my country so much that those sacrifices are just worth it, meanwhile you've probably just stayed in the same city or area for years at a time never contributing to the direct alleviation of poverty, you know, unlike me, the so called quote end quote 'elitist'.

Again, I don't see poverty, I fucking live it. Don't me. I don't send money back home because all my money goes to my parents and my household (and my dog and girlfriend, pero iba na 'yon), not to mention the fact that I have little money to give anyway. Oh wow may katulong ka tapos you taught them English, what do you think that does? How about teach them their own mother tongue? I was part of the local campaign trail, aided in stemming the black propaganda between the two mayoral candidates (it was a team, it wasn't just me), interned at the office of one of our senators and continue to lobby to my congressman. I know pretty well how the political system here works, thank you very much. It's just so funny how you think you're better than everyone else because, among your other reasons, you've read the constitution (we've all read the constitution, mate) and you think because you're teaching English to your yaya's kids makes you a benevolent god.

It's difficult to make a direct contribution to poverty in other areas when I live in poverty, you know. It's difficult to make a direct contribution when I spend a lot of my time volunteering for labor groups fighting for better wages - but you don't see me bragging about that.

[Victoriala II]

There's no need to invoke me if he doesn't recognize my opinions as valid.

[Pasong Tirad]

There's no need to invoke me if he doesn't recognize my opinions as valid.

He doesn't even recognize mine, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Farnhamia]

1. Again, this statement just shows how misguided and sensitive you are that you can't even distinguish the definition between 'CULTURE' and 'RACE', if I were a 'racist' my point would be that the race of one people was inferior relative to another, now SHOW ME ONE INSTANCE, JUST FREAKING ONE OF EVER SAYING SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, and you'd have a point, in fact you have the ability to report on me to Moderation, otherwise, you describing me as a 'racist' for describing CULTURAL PRACTICES which are INFERIOR (in this day and age) of certain cultures throughout the World, will be seen as nothing more than an attempt to try and garner a 'flame reaction' and as such will be treated as a 'flame baiting' incident.

Awfully close to "Mods as weapons." Awfully close. If you think someone's baiting, report them. If you think they might, don't threaten them beforehand.

[Novus America]

The truth, as usual, lies somewhere in between. You are often unfairly hostile to the US.
For example, Manila. The US declared it an open city and did not fight in it to spare it from during the initial Japanese invasion. We did what we could to preserve it.

In 1945 the Japanese did NOT respond in kind. It was no longer a an open city. Japan refused to leave, and fought building to building.

Worse the Japanese were raping and murdering every civilian they could.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_massacre

So the US had to launch an all out attack to end things as quickly as possible to SAVE people from the Japanese. Had to destroy buildings that were full of Japanese soldiers.

It was sad, but we had no choice. What should we have done? Just wait until the Japanese had raped and murdered everyone?

Also as far as the $500, that was only until an agreement was worked out, after the agreement worked out it was increased. Sure requiring them to make trade concessions to get more aid was not a nice thing to do.

The US was not all good. We did d some bad things. But not all bad either. And were certainly better than the other options (Germany then Japan, or just Japan).

No no no the truth isn't in between. It's so far from his side of the line he can't even recognize it anymore. I'm being hostile, yes, but I wouldn't call it unfair.

I know very well about the Rape of Manila, yes, but the US shelling still happened. Both are culpable in the destruction of Manila.

The reconstruction fund is something even you, unfortunately, cannot defend. It was evil to the highest level. The "agreement" that was worked out was Filipino sovereignty being signed over for American interests. For a time, Americans had equal rights to our natural resources. It was the bitter pill that we had to swallow, the grim reality that we had to face: instead of being given over a billion pesos for reconstruction, it was held hostage unless we would sign over our rights to our own natural resources.

See my issue with you is you seem to look at things as isolated absolutes. In reality everything is a cost benefit analysis.
An action should be taken if less harmful than the alternative.

You offer plenty of criticisms, but not so many alternatives. The US had no choice but to shell Manila, it was entirely Japan's fault. We had no real alternative. Simply sitting back and let them rape and kill was not an option. The US did call for Japan to respect Manila as an open city, and leave and fight elsewhere, as we had done.
The Japanese responded by raping an murdering everyone they could. So we had no choice but to end the battle as quickly as possible.

As far as the rebuilding, not I am not going to defend that. I am not claiming the US was all good, and we never did anything wrong.

We are all flawed, all governments are flawed and have done some horrible things.

But the US was certainly a better option for you than the Japanese. Or the Germans for a few years only to have Japan invade during WWI.

[Pasong Tirad]

No no no the truth isn't in between. It's so far from his side of the line he can't even recognize it anymore. I'm being hostile, yes, but I wouldn't call it unfair.

I know very well about the Rape of Manila, yes, but the US shelling still happened. Both are culpable in the destruction of Manila.

The reconstruction fund is something even you, unfortunately, cannot defend. It was evil to the highest level. The "agreement" that was worked out was Filipino sovereignty being signed over for American interests. For a time, Americans had equal rights to our natural resources. It was the bitter pill that we had to swallow, the grim reality that we had to face: instead of being given over a billion pesos for reconstruction, it was held hostage unless we would sign over our rights to our own natural resources.

See my issue with you is you seem to look at things as isolated absolutes. In reality everything is a cost benefit analysis.
An action should be taken if less harmful than the alternative.

You offer plenty of criticisms, but not so many alternatives. The US had no choice but to shell Manila, it was entirely Japan's fault. We had no real alternative. Simply sitting back and let them rape and kill was not an option. The US did call for Japan to respect Manila as an open city, and leave and fight elsewhere, as we had done.
The Japanese responded by raping an murdering everyone they could. So we had no choice but to end the battle as quickly as possible.

As far as the rebuilding, not I am not going to defend that. I am not claiming the US was all good, and we never did anything wrong.

We are all flawed, all governments are flawed and have done some horrible things.

But the US was certainly a better option for you than the Japanese. Or the Germans for a few years only to have Japan invade during WWI.

It still happened, that's the thing. Yes I fully understand that it was the only possible alternative - but it was still American shells that landed on Manila while it was Japanese swords that cut down and massacred people. My grandmother was 10 when she was ferried out of Intramuros, I've heard her tell the story time and again.

And yes the US was the better option, I'm not arguing against it - but it was a choice between different colonial masters. I would have chosen no colonial master.

[Novus America]

See my issue with you is you seem to look at things as isolated absolutes. In reality everything is a cost benefit analysis.
An action should be taken if less harmful than the alternative.

You offer plenty of criticisms, but not so many alternatives. The US had no choice but to shell Manila, it was entirely Japan's fault. We had no real alternative. Simply sitting back and let them rape and kill was not an option. The US did call for Japan to respect Manila as an open city, and leave and fight elsewhere, as we had done.
The Japanese responded by raping an murdering everyone they could. So we had no choice but to end the battle as quickly as possible.

As far as the rebuilding, not I am not going to defend that. I am not claiming the US was all good, and we never did anything wrong.

We are all flawed, all governments are flawed and have done some horrible things.

But the US was certainly a better option for you than the Japanese. Or the Germans for a few years only to have Japan invade during WWI.

It still happened, that's the thing. Yes I fully understand that it was the only possible alternative - but it was still American shells that landed on Manila while it was Japanese swords that cut down and massacred people. My grandmother was 10 when she was ferried out of Intramuros, I've heard her tell the story time and again.

And yes the US was the better option, I'm not arguing against it - but it was a choice between different colonial masters. I would have chosen no colonial master.

Sure it was US shells, but again it was not the wrong action to take, as sad as it was. So I would not say it reflected badly on the US, or was a crime by the US.
So I do not see any grounds for attacking the US for it.

And choosing no colonial master was simply not an option.

You cannot choose the ideal option all the time. When given a limited number of options you have to pick the least bad one.

[Pasong Tirad]

It still happened, that's the thing. Yes I fully understand that it was the only possible alternative - but it was still American shells that landed on Manila while it was Japanese swords that cut down and massacred people. My grandmother was 10 when she was ferried out of Intramuros, I've heard her tell the story time and again.

And yes the US was the better option, I'm not arguing against it - but it was a choice between different colonial masters. I would have chosen no colonial master.

Sure it was US shells, but again it was not the wrong action to take, as sad as it was. So I would not say it reflected badly on the US, or was a crime by the US.
So I do not see any grounds for attacking the US for it.

And choosing no colonial master was simply not an option.

You cannot choose the ideal option all the time. When given a limited number of options you have to pick the least bad one.

They could have overwhelmed the city, they could have charged the tanks in, they could have gone with a naval landing or even paratrooped soldiers in. There were literally a dozen options for them and they chose the one that would lead to the least number of American casualties - and yes, it must have also meant the least number of Filipino casualties. There's even no telling how many Filipinos were killed not by the Japanese but by American shelling - although, yes I do think most of the deaths were at the hands of the Japanese.

See, that's where I think you're wrong. We were already developing diplomatic ties with Japan, attempting to get them to support our revolution. These kinds of diplomatic dealings would have been a good option. Choosing no colonial master would have been a bad decision but it was the best bad decision we had.

[Novus America]

Sure it was US shells, but again it was not the wrong action to take, as sad as it was. So I would not say it reflected badly on the US, or was a crime by the US.
So I do not see any grounds for attacking the US for it.

And choosing no colonial master was simply not an option.

You cannot choose the ideal option all the time. When given a limited number of options you have to pick the least bad one.

They could have overwhelmed the city, they could have charged the tanks in, they could have gone with a naval landing or even paratrooped soldiers in. There were literally a dozen options for them and they chose the one that would lead to the least number of American casualties - and yes, it must have also meant the least number of Filipino casualties. There's even no telling how many Filipinos were killed not by the Japanese but by American shelling.

See, that's where I think you're wrong. We were already developing diplomatic ties with Japan, attempting to get them to support our revolution. These kinds of diplomatic dealings would have been a good option. Choosing no colonial master would have been a bad decision but it was the best bad decision we had.

Sure there were other options, but that would just have caused just a longer battle with more deaths, and not necessarily less destruction.
The question is not if there was other options, the question is were their better options?

No city fight has every left a city intact. Sadly the Japanese were no going to leave, and where going to kill and destroy as much as they could.
They were even worse than the Germans in some cases such as this one. At least the German commander in Paris refused to destroy the city or fight in it. Had he decided to do what Japan did Paris would have suffered the same.

Japan had at the time had a long history of backstabbing. Japan had diplomatic ties with Korea too, but that did not work out so well.
"Diplomatic ties" with Japan of the time was simply a way for Japan to get a foot in the door. Then the would occupy you, murder your leader, and annex you. Plus they certainly were not going to fight a war to stop the British or Germans from going in if they did not. Japan was planning to invade and occupy if the US had not taken over. They had ships waiting to strike. And as you yourself admitted the government was going to fail, had the US not gone in there would have been a civil war, chaos and someone else doing it. Possibly with the Philippines even being partitioned before Japan threw everyone else out.

Can you name on case where Japan did not do such a thing to nearby islands? There was literally not a single pacific island that stayed independent.

At best you would have gotten treatment similar to China.