NationStates

Yugoslav Memes wrote:trying to get a meaningful tag post so what do you think of federalism if it would be in PH (totally not a circlejerked topic run over millions of times)

Connori Pilgrims wrote:

Yugoslav Memes wrote:trying to get a meaningful tag post so what do you think of federalism if it would be in PH (totally not a circlejerked topic run over millions of times)

The Philippines is already de-facto federalized given how wide the scope local warlords politicians have for their discretionary powers. That's also part of why outcomes are different depending on the local government. Duts may have done well in Davao but many other places aren't so lucky with their warlords politicians. Contrary to popular belief, not everything can be laid at "Imperial" Manila's feet.

Federalist advocates could never really find an acceptable answer to this problem of local politics, one particular naive soul from the previous discussion thread could only give lame platitudes claiming we have to have faith in our people, which is an amusing idea.

Federalism in the Philippines in essence is about giving the local warlords politicians even more discretion and a direct source of funds. This may be good for well-performing provinces/states/whatever, but due to the way the economy is geographically agglomerated*, there will be regions that will still lose.

I'm not necessarily hostile to Federalism as an idea, however it should be understood that the present project is not to "spread development" or other such naive bullshit. Its a political configuration project for local elites to get more power as well as a placebo for separatist sentiments, nothing more.

* agglomeration - if a place already has established infrastructure businesses will naturally go there, compared to risking their capital establishing new outposts. i.e. profitable places like Manila, Davao, and Cebu will attract more business, while random island in Visayas or random barangay in the Cordilleras will likely never see investors.

DAHON wrote:You know, I was a supporter of a shift to a federal form of government before now, but now... well, goddammit, why didn't I see that much before?

Emperyo wrote:Oh, and by the way, LKY is far out from any comparison from Duterte.
If LKY were to see to the claims of the South China Sea with China, he wouldn't back down from Chairman Xi so quickly.
".. Everybody knows that in my bag I have a hatchet, and a very sharp one. You take me on, I take my hatchet, we meet in the cul-de-sac(...)"
~Lee Kuan Yew

Stormwrath wrote:

Emperyo wrote:Oh, and by the way, LKY is far out from any comparison from Duterte.
If LKY were to see to the claims of the South China Sea with China, he wouldn't back down from Chairman Xi so quickly.
".. Everybody knows that in my bag I have a hatchet, and a very sharp one. You take me on, I take my hatchet, we meet in the cul-de-sac(...)"
~Lee Kuan Yew

No one said anything about those two being similar.

Emperio Maharlika wrote:

Stormwrath wrote:No one said anything about those two being similar.

News articles did.

DAHON wrote:You know, I was a supporter of a shift to a federal form of government before now, but now... well, goddammit, why didn't I see that much before?

Devernia wrote:

DAHON wrote:You know, I was a supporter of a shift to a federal form of government before now, but now... well, goddammit, why didn't I see that much before?

Personally, I like the concept of a federal Philippines. "The Federal Republic of the Philippines" would be the new official name. Imagine the Philippines being divided into its administrative regions, their own state flags, the NCR being the new federal capital region (FCR?), the state songs/anthems... mmm...

Devernia wrote:

DAHON wrote:You know, I was a supporter of a shift to a federal form of government before now, but now... well, goddammit, why didn't I see that much before?

Personally, I like the concept of a federal Philippines. "The Federal Republic of the Philippines" would be the new official name. Imagine the Philippines being divided into its administrative regions, their own state flags, the NCR being the new federal capital region (FCR?), the state songs/anthems... mmm...

Pasong Tirad wrote:

Devernia wrote:Personally, I like the concept of a federal Philippines. "The Federal Republic of the Philippines" would be the new official name. Imagine the Philippines being divided into its administrative regions, their own state flags, the NCR being the new federal capital region (FCR?), the state songs/anthems... mmm...

It's an ideal thought, but then again the (ugh I hate using this term) provinces are already properly divided into their own administrative regions with flags and anthems and such. The great big thing federalism would change is that the provinces/regions would no longer be called as such, and if we're supposed to follow the American style of federalism (see the irony of following American federalism with a staunchly anti-American president?), then the regions would be called states and have their own laws and they would have a say in the passing of national laws and such - ex., if the RH Bill were to be passed and become law, the states would have to ratify it in their respective regions and thus would have a say if they want to do this or that or not.

Now, that is the ideal scenario and that will probably happen if federalism is established. However, as has been said multiple times before, we can't forget the fact that political families have their own respective holdouts in several regions and, thus, would only be even more entrenched when federalism arrives. Federalism would only give more power to these local elites about what laws they can and can't pass, among other things.

Vulkata II wrote:Hey guys got a question for you:Describe the region where you live

DAHON wrote:While I can't find the source of the allegation in question, apparently, ex-ambassador Philip Goldberg apparently left behind a strategic recommendation to the State Department proposing Duterte's ouster.

All I can say is: doesn't matter if it's true or not.

We Pinoys may be the most pro-American people in this part of the world, but we don't like getting dicked around, and we sure as hell don't like yet another EDSA.

Jilatana wrote:At some point Duterte will have a holiday in a country that doesn't approve of his ruling and he may end up at the International Court in The Hague.

Jilatana wrote:At some point Duterte will have a holiday in a country that doesn't approve of his ruling and he may end up at the International Court in The Hague.

Stormwrath wrote:

Pasong Tirad wrote:It's an ideal thought, but then again the (ugh I hate using this term) provinces are already properly divided into their own administrative regions with flags and anthems and such. The great big thing federalism would change is that the provinces/regions would no longer be called as such, and if we're supposed to follow the American style of federalism (see the irony of following American federalism with a staunchly anti-American president?), then the regions would be called states and have their own laws and they would have a say in the passing of national laws and such - ex., if the RH Bill were to be passed and become law, the states would have to ratify it in their respective regions and thus would have a say if they want to do this or that or not.

Now, that is the ideal scenario and that will probably happen if federalism is established. However, as has been said multiple times before, we can't forget the fact that political families have their own respective holdouts in several regions and, thus, would only be even more entrenched when federalism arrives. Federalism would only give more power to these local elites about what laws they can and can't pass, among other things.

Wouldn't federalism decentralize the government and thus undoing a certain part of the legacy of Marcos?

DAHON wrote:While I can't find the source of the allegation in question, apparently, ex-ambassador Philip Goldberg apparently left behind a strategic recommendation to the State Department proposing Duterte's ouster.

All I can say is: doesn't matter if it's true or not.

We Pinoys may be the most pro-American people in this part of the world, but we don't like getting dicked around, and we sure as hell don't like yet another EDSA.

Pasong Tirad wrote:

Stormwrath wrote:Wouldn't federalism decentralize the government and thus undoing a certain part of the legacy of Marcos?

Possibly. But I think it's just like getting your left foot back and giving away your right. We've been trying to remedy Marcos' legacy for thirty years and we're still coming up a little short. If federalism comes, maybe the Marcoses can stay stuck in their own little Ilocos paradise. Maybe it'll fuck things up even more. I don't know.

DAHON wrote:While I can't find the source of the allegation in question, apparently, ex-ambassador Philip Goldberg apparently left behind a strategic recommendation to the State Department proposing Duterte's ouster.

All I can say is: doesn't matter if it's true or not.

We Pinoys may be the most pro-American people in this part of the world, but we don't like getting dicked around, and we sure as hell don't like yet another EDSA.

I don't know about you, but I think we'd need a redo. Another EDSA might be a good start. Another EDSA with us, the common people at the helm, and not the elites.

Isyrannaea wrote:>when Pinochet blesses Duterte from beyond the grave

Zakuvia wrote:

DAHON wrote:While I can't find the source of the allegation in question, apparently, ex-ambassador Philip Goldberg apparently left behind a strategic recommendation to the State Department proposing Duterte's ouster.

All I can say is: doesn't matter if it's true or not.

We Pinoys may be the most pro-American people in this part of the world, but we don't like getting dicked around, and we sure as hell don't like yet another EDSA.

Well, let's take the envoy's view of this. We have an anti-American Trump-lite waltzing around Manila, recommending the US remove its military presence, thereby leaving PI and the rest of the region wide open for Chinese incursion and general dickery, while at the same time making statements that would make Pat Robertson blush while prosecuting a 'drug' war that has already killed hundreds. Sorry if I can't feel bad about him keeping that little document around as a 'just in case'.

Connori Pilgrims wrote:

Zakuvia wrote:
Well, let's take the envoy's view of this. We have an anti-American Trump-lite waltzing around Manila, recommending the US remove its military presence, thereby leaving PI and the rest of the region wide open for Chinese incursion and general dickery, while at the same time making statements that would make Pat Robertson blush while prosecuting a 'drug' war that has already killed hundreds. Sorry if I can't feel bad about him keeping that little document around as a 'just in case'.

"Allegedly."

Its not entirely out of the realm of possibility; and Lord knows there are many paranoid cunts in the Philippines who'd believe it.

But until he actually produces evidence to prove it, I'm inclined to toss this in "paranoid nonsensical shit Duterte government believes in to further justify his treason in selling the country to China."

Vulkata II wrote:

Pasong Tirad wrote:Possibly. But I think it's just like getting your left foot back and giving away your right. We've been trying to remedy Marcos' legacy for thirty years and we're still coming up a little short. If federalism comes, maybe the Marcoses can stay stuck in their own little Ilocos paradise. Maybe it'll fuck things up even more. I don't know.


I don't know about you, but I think we'd need a redo. Another EDSA might be a good start. Another EDSA with us, the common people at the helm, and not the elites.

With guns or flowers and military defects?

The military is already talking about defecting i guess