BongBongLand (Philippine) Discussion Thread

[Duhon]

So, the first unofficial results are in: https://www.gmanetwork.com/news/eleksyo ... y4irFU61Ek

What do you guys think? Me, I'm absolutely disgusted with the results. You'd think the people would know better, but apparently not.

More of the usual shit blah blah blah fuck Tolentino fuck him fuck him blah blah blah --

-- oh, Bong Go sucked way up to third. Fuck.

[Pasong Tirad]

It's really not. At least, it shouldn't be.

Dude, the very concept of letting the "underrepresented" get elected is a fucking flawed one, not least because that criterion is subjective as ass, and now individual candidates and major parties are gaming the system to their advantage. At least the SKs are a bloody sinecure that looks good on a resume but really means jack.

The idea of giving great representation for certain underrepresented sectors of society is a good thing. It just needs to be a lot more strict, because as it stands right now you don't need to be anything or represent anyone to try and grab a seat in congress as a partylist. It should be reformed, with proper limits as to who it is allowed to represent - ethnic/ethnoreligious groups that never get representation in the senate should be secured at least one per group, imo, - one seat for a Lumad rep, one seat for a Ifugao rep, etc. - as well as seats for specific trades and sectors of the workforce - farmers, fishermen, factory workers, day laborers, etc.

The SK should be abolished. The party-list system, short of actually demolishing the whole government, should be reformed to better suit the needs of people in the fringes of society that truly need representation.

[Duhon]

The concerns of those nebulously underrepresented cannot be met in a representative democracy, as purely minority matters cannot by themselves carry the day in a forum otherwise filled with members that frankly don't know the faintest thing and thus has no context on how to solve said minority matters. This, even before you go flick off the usual blah about who gets to determine which groups are underrepresented, as well as the certainty of corruption in so vaguely defined a system.

The partylist system might have been a creative idea, well-intentioned, but it's still a blight. Let the partylists revert back to lobbyimg the government for solutions instead of getting to play the game themselves.

[Pasong Tirad]

The concerns of those nebulously underrepresented cannot be met in a representative democracy, as purely minority matters cannot by themselves carry the day in a forum otherwise filled with members that frankly don't know the faintest thing and thus has no context on how to solve said minority matters. This, even before you go flick off the usual blah about who gets to determine which groups are underrepresented, as well as the certainty of corruption in so vaguely defined a system.

The partylist system might have been a creative idea, well-intentioned, but it's still a blight. Let the partylists revert back to lobbyimg the government for solutions instead of getting to play the game themselves.

The current system is the vaguely defined one. I offered a solution to resolve just that concern - to define which groups need representation, and it should be clear - indigenous peoples, smaller ethnic and ethnoreligious groups, and unions of various tradesmen. It should be clear who the people in the fringes of society are that desperately need representation in the national government. It being unclear to you isn't my fault.

Also,

as purely minority matters cannot by themselves carry the day in a forum otherwise filled with members that frankly don't know the faintest thing and thus has no context on how to solve said minority matters.

"lol people stupid fuck them"

[Duhon]

Who else could possibly be interested in the plight of the Aeta, or the Badjao, or the lumad, or the myriad unions around the metro areas of the archipelago, other than subject matter experts, activists, and random obsessives? It is not a matter of intelligence, it is a matter of getting people to listen to topics that may be quite obscure from a national or even regional standpoint.

[Duhon]

1 Villar
2 Poe
3 Sipsip
4 Cayetano
5 Bato
6 Angara
7 Lapid
8 Fuck Her
9 Doubleplus Fucky Fuck This Fucking Fucker
10 Koko
11 Isko Won
12 Fuck Him

*flips table*

[Pasong Tirad]

Who else could possibly be interested in the plight of the Aeta, or the Badjao, or the lumad, or the myriad unions around the metro areas of the archipelago, other than subject matter experts, activists, and random obsessives?

Their own people. Their own people would be interested in getting their voices heard. The very fact that the national agenda excludes people in the fringes is the very reason the party-list system is necessary and needs to be overhauled in order to fully represent marginal groups rather than a grab bag of party-lists that claim to represent one sector or another but are really just vehicles for wannabe politicos to get their foots in the door, closing the door on actual party-lists that are truly striving to represent one sector of society or another. Aeta land is still being grabbed up by large corporations and landowners, the Badjao are still largely impoverished due to the hellish system that refuses to allow social mobility, the Lumad are still being systematically wiped out and driven out of their ancestral lands, the Maranao still can't return to a rehabilitated Marawi, and a majority of the working class in the Metro Manila area are still struggling to make ends meet on a daily basis. Getting their voices inside the halls of congress definitely isn't going to be the end-all solution to fix all of their problems, but it is without a doubt going to help drastically improve their lot in life.

It is not a matter of intelligence,

You have made it a matter of intelligence by framing the issue as something only the intelligentsia will care about - because apparently, greater representation for underrepresented groups in the political sphere is something said underrepresented groups don't care about, according to you.

it is a matter of getting people to listen to topics that may be quite obscure from a national or even regional standpoint.

People don't listen to regional issues to begin with. This has always been the case. Manila has always been the Imperial City. That's part of what fuelled Duterte to begin with, the idea that political and economic elites are clustering around Metro Manila and refusing to acknowledge even the existence of the regions outside of NCR helped to sway people to the faux image of Duterte as a rural everyman. Refusing to accept that, at the very least, the voices of indigenous groups and overworked and underpaid trade sectors need to be heard and understood because of some asinine circular reasoning that they are the only ones who will care about what they say is the height of elitism. Can you at least agree to that? Because I can understand that you might think that the partylist system might not be the way to go, but can you at least get on board with the idea that more regional voices being heard and represented in Manila is a plus?

[Pasong Tirad]

1 Villar
2 Poe
3 Sipsip
4 Cayetano
5 Bato
6 Angara
7 Lapid
8 Fuck Her
9 Doubleplus Fucky Fuck This Fucking Fucker
10 Koko
11 Isko Won
12 Fuck Him

*flips table*

Weird shit's going on. Moreso than usual. Whole thing's fucked up.

[Duhon]

I did not say that those underrepresented by the current system don't care about their own plight, far from it, but they do have to curry favor from those in power, from those who might not know as much as they themselves do. The flaw of the partylist system is that you're placing such representatives in the legislature instead of in the executive.

[Duhon]

1 Villar
2 Poe
3 Sipsip
4 Cayetano
5 Bato
6 Angara
7 Lapid
8 Fuck Her
9 Doubleplus Fucky Fuck This Fucking Fucker
10 Koko
11 Isko Won
12 Fuck Him

*flips table*

Weird shit's going on. Moreso than usual. Whole thing's fucked up.

From 92% to slightly less than 50%... well, that's even beyond my expectations --

-- posted by the Paper Ballot Gang

[Pasong Tirad]

I did not say that those underrepresented by the current system don't care about their own plight, far from it, but they do have to vurry favor from those in power, from those who might not know as much as they themselves do. The flaw of the partylist system is that you're placing such representatives in the legislature instead of in the executive.

That's exactly what you said. You said nobody but the intelligentsia and random activists would care about their voices. That's what's happening now. That's the current system. The current system has people from the fringes needing to kowtow to regional powers in order to even get their voices heard. What I'm proposing is that the middle man needs to get cut out, for seats to be reserved specifically for those groups of people, get them directly into congress without needing to bend over backwards in order to get funding for campaigns (privately funded elections are bullshit and they also need to go - publicly fund elections!), and in order to get the right network of alliances to be able to get enough people to vote for you.

Not once have you mentioned anything other than the partylist system, so right now it feels like you're just moving the goal posts in order to accommodate your new attack that "nah they need to get into the executive." That's what the Local Government Code is for. It's shit and it needs to be properly enforced and itself overhauled but it's there and it's still garbage because it still relies on Imperial Manila allocating enough funding for them - which they won't do.

[Pasong Tirad]

Weird shit's going on. Moreso than usual. Whole thing's fucked up.

From 92% to slightly less than 50%... well, that's even beyond my expectations --

-- posted by the Paper Ballot Gang

Ideally there would be two components to the election - the electrically transmitted ballot and a manual one which can help verify votes and make them more auditable and transparent to poll watchers like the PPCRV and NAMFREL. That's what the receipts are supposed to be, but they don't always work. I'm lucky, at least, that my voting experience went smooth and moreso for my city.

[Duhon]

From 92% to slightly less than 50%... well, that's even beyond my expectations --

-- posted by the Paper Ballot Gang

Ideally there would be two components to the election - the electrically transmitted ballot and a manual one which can help verify votes and make them more auditable and transparent to poll watchers like the PPCRV and NAMFREL. That's what the receipts are supposed to be, but they don't always work. I'm lucky, at least, that my voting experience went smooth and moreso for my city.

No, go back to paper ballots. Yes, instances of fraud (and -- just as discrediting -- allegations of fraud) will increase, but at least paper is a tangible medium that can be scrutinized by everyone other than those who can read computer code or whatever.

[Pasong Tirad]

Ideally there would be two components to the election - the electrically transmitted ballot and a manual one which can help verify votes and make them more auditable and transparent to poll watchers like the PPCRV and NAMFREL. That's what the receipts are supposed to be, but they don't always work. I'm lucky, at least, that my voting experience went smooth and moreso for my city.

No, go back to paper ballots. Yes, instances of fraud (and -- just as discrediting -- allegations of fraud) will increase, but at least paper is a tangible medium that can be scrutinized by everyone other than those who can read computer code or whatever.

2004 called. Instances of widespread fraud were a mainstay in Philippine elections before the arrival of the electronic system. They've been trying to scrutinize every single piece of paper since a century ago, and then things got a lot better when local elites couldn't tamper with paper ballots because the votes were being done electronically, see 2010, 2013, and 2016 elections. And even then, our current electronic elections already have paper. It's called the election receipts. The problem being a lot of people are reporting a lot of irregularities with their receipts - names popping up that they didn't vote for or even just no receipts being given and shown to them. The problem is that there aren't enough independent poll watching groups to be able to audit the results. NAMFREL was shut out of this year's elections, don't forget.

And of course men with guns is always going to be a problem, especially outside of the purview of journalists in Manila and large urban areas.

[Duhon]

No, go back to paper ballots. Yes, instances of fraud (and -- just as discrediting -- allegations of fraud) will increase, but at least paper is a tangible medium that can be scrutinized by everyone other than those who can read computer code or whatever.

2004 called. Instances of widespread fraud were a mainstay in Philippine elections before the arrival of the electronic system. They've been trying to scrutinize every single piece of paper since a century ago, and then things got a lot better when local elites couldn't tamper with paper ballots because the votes were being done electronically, see 2010, 2013, and 2016 elections. And even then, our current electronic elections already have paper. It's called the election receipts. The problem being a lot of people are reporting a lot of irregularities with their receipts - names popping up that they didn't vote for or even just no receipts being given and shown to them. The problem is that there aren't enough independent poll watching groups to be able to audit the results. NAMFREL was shut out of this year's elections, don't forget.

And of course men with guns is always going to be a problem, especially outside of the purview of journalists in Manila and large urban areas.

We got speedier results -- and that's about it. Electronic votes are just as vulnerable to tampering by malicious entities as paper ballots; given the nature of the medium, all you need is a backup SD card. And given that this is the Philippines...

[Pasong Tirad]

2004 called. Instances of widespread fraud were a mainstay in Philippine elections before the arrival of the electronic system. They've been trying to scrutinize every single piece of paper since a century ago, and then things got a lot better when local elites couldn't tamper with paper ballots because the votes were being done electronically, see 2010, 2013, and 2016 elections. And even then, our current electronic elections already have paper. It's called the election receipts. The problem being a lot of people are reporting a lot of irregularities with their receipts - names popping up that they didn't vote for or even just no receipts being given and shown to them. The problem is that there aren't enough independent poll watching groups to be able to audit the results. NAMFREL was shut out of this year's elections, don't forget.

And of course men with guns is always going to be a problem, especially outside of the purview of journalists in Manila and large urban areas.

We got speedier results -- and that's about it. Electronic votes are just as vulnerable to tampering by malicious entities as paper ballots; given the nature of the medium, all you need is a backup SD card. And given that this is the Philippines...

No, that's not "about it." You don't seem to understand how these things work. The tampering isn't being done locally, it's being done at COMELEC itself. They're not "just as vulnerable" as paper ballots. Paper ballots are literally just pieces of paper that you can rewrite and burn in extreme cases. It's a thousand times more difficult to tamper with electronic ballots at a local level, apart from the usual thing political elites are and have always been doing - threats, bribes, using the cudgel of state-sponsored violence to legitimize their red-tagging of opposition candidates. The problem isn't the electronic vote, the problem is that we got electronic votes without updating the electoral processes, we didn't strengthen the independent auditing processes that make sure the elections are done fairly. Chain of custody of SD cards needs to be audited, canvassing of votes needs to be audited, NAMFREL needs to be dogging COMELEC every step of the way. It's gotten a thousand times more difficult to rig the elections, doesn't mean it hasn't and can't be done - and it probably has been - but a return to paper ballots alone will only make the problems ten times worse.

[Stormwrath]

1 Villar
2 Poe
3 Sipsip
4 Cayetano
5 Bato
6 Angara
7 Lapid
8 Fuck Her
9 Doubleplus Fucky Fuck This Fucking Fucker
10 Koko
11 Isko Won
12 Fuck Him

*flips table*

I tried fixing all of that by replacing it all with varying degrees of the word "fuck", but I think that would be violating TOS so.

[Pasong Tirad]

1 Villar
2 Poe
3 Sipsip
4 Cayetano
5 Bato
6 Angara
7 Lapid
8 Fuck Her
9 Doubleplus Fucky Fuck This Fucking Fucker
10 Koko
11 Isko Won
12 Fuck Him

*flips table*

I tried fixing all of that by replacing it all with varying degrees of the word "fuck", but I think that would be violating TOS so.

Hardly. Fucking swearing is fucking pretty much fucking allowed. Fuck.

Out of curiosity, who did you vote?

[Stormwrath]

The partylist system is a fucking blight.

Pass it on.

Exactly. I could make a "Free DeviantArt Points For Me" partylist right now and people will still vote me in.

I tried fixing all of that by replacing it all with varying degrees of the word "fuck", but I think that would be violating TOS so.

Hardly. Fucking swearing is fucking pretty much fucking allowed. Fuck.

Out of curiosity, who did you vote?

Well yes, but not too much.

Those that I can remember out of the top of my head:
Villar, Poe, Bong Go, Bato, Imee (MWAHAHAHAHAAAA), Koko, Cayetano, Tolentino.

Those that I had to look up again to confirm:
Alunan, Binay, Mangudadatu, possibly Angara.

[Victoriala II]

the philippines would fare better if it just returned to the datu system, that was more manageable than whatever federal platform doots wanted

mabuhay si apo belmonte

[Duhon]

the philippines would fare better if it just returned to the datu system, that was more manageable than whatever federal platform doots wanted

mabuhay si apo belmonte

Basically naked warlordism as opposed to warlordism with some of the naughty bits exposed for alt-right titillation.

I'm sorry, where are the exits on this thing?

[Novus America]

the philippines would fare better if it just returned to the datu system, that was more manageable than whatever federal platform doots wanted

mabuhay si apo belmonte

Basically naked warlordism as opposed to warlordism with some of the naughty bits exposed for alt-right titillation.

I'm sorry, where are the exits on this thing?

There are no exits on Mr. Duterte’s wild ride.

[Duhon]

Basically naked warlordism as opposed to warlordism with some of the naughty bits exposed for alt-right titillation.

I'm sorry, where are the exits on this thing?

There no exits on Mr. Duterte’s wild ride.

Well, if you believe Victoriala up there, there is.

[Victoriala II]

There no exits on Mr. Duterte’s wild ride.

Well, if you believe Victoriala up there, there is.

You won't like my preferred options anyway

[Pasong Tirad]

Death. Death is an exit.