Banning the swastika = religious discrimination?

[Genivaria]

Outside of Europe is irrelevant to this discussion.

Not really.
Many religions that use the swastika originated outside of Europe.

Yes really, the discussion is about laws in Europe.

[Dilordaopia]

Not really.
Many religions that use the swastika originated outside of Europe.

Yes really, the discussion is about laws in Europe.

Take it as you will but i will continue to speak on an international level.

[New Grestin]

Whatever peaceful religious connotations the Swastika had prior to World War Two have become wholly eclipsed by it's connotations to Fascism.

Frankly, the Germans have every right to take issue with the Swastika. It's been less than a century since their forebears fought under that banner, tore Europe asunder and killed millions.

You ask me, they've got every right to be a bit touchy about it.

Mind you, if you were going into India and scrubbing Swastikas off the walls, then it'd be a different issue, but that's not what is happening here.

[Chessmistress]

I always, automatically, suppose that everyone who automatically blames the swastika never had been in the Far East or in India.
I suggest to visit such places, they're charming.
It's pretty simple:
Black Oblique Swastika rotating clockwise = Nazi. It have to be banned.
Black Swastika rotating anticlockwise = religious symbol.
Swastika in colors that aren't black, regardless the direction of rotation = religious symbol.
Swastika that isn't oblique, regardless the color and the direction of the rotation = religious symbol.

[Imperial Idaho]

To the common person, the swastika is a symbol of the Nazis and the horrors they committed upon Europe. Not of a peaceful minority faith. While its a shame Hitler has become associated with the symbol, it should still be banned in western nations.

[USS Monitor]

To the common person, the swastika is a symbol of the Nazis and the horrors they committed upon Europe. Not of a peaceful minority faith. While its a shame Hitler has become associated with the symbol, it should still be banned in western nations.

There's no reason to ban religious usage, and I'm not aware of any countries that do. The German ban only applies to using it as a Nazi symbol.

[Chessmistress]

To the common person, the swastika is a symbol of the Nazis and the horrors they committed upon Europe. Not of a peaceful minority faith. While its a shame Hitler has become associated with the symbol, it should still be banned in western nations.

And that would be truly against the basic concept of multiculturalism...
I do not even fully agree with multiculturalism, I think that sometimes it's going too far (a good example is: Sharia courts in UK, with very unfair divorces and very unfair "sentences" in cases of domestic violence: that's really misogynist, I think).
But banning a religious symbol even in private settings...in such case I side with multiculturalism.

[Imperial Idaho]

To the common person, the swastika is a symbol of the Nazis and the horrors they committed upon Europe. Not of a peaceful minority faith. While its a shame Hitler has become associated with the symbol, it should still be banned in western nations.

And that would be truly against the basic concept of multiculturalism...
I do not even fully agree with multiculturalism, I think that sometimes it's going too far (a good example is: Sharia courts in UK, with very unfair divorces and very unfair "sentences" in cases of domestic violence: that's really misogynist, I think).
But banning a religious symbol even in private settings...in such case I side with multiculturalism.

I worded my stance a bit poorly, personally I think it should be allowed in private settings, you know freedom of speech and whatnot, but I disagree with its use in public.

[Lady Scylla]

To the common person, the swastika is a symbol of the Nazis and the horrors they committed upon Europe. Not of a peaceful minority faith. While its a shame Hitler has become associated with the symbol, it should still be banned in western nations.

There's no reason to ban religious usage, and I'm not aware of any countries that do. The German ban only applies to using it as a Nazi symbol.

Yep. The law isnt as awful as its being made out. Context is key, and I feel the argument in this thread is a disingenuous attempt to allow nazi symbolism.

[Ostroeuropa]

In some contexts yes.

Including, arguably, some nazi contexts with the ones who buy into the nazi mythology stuff.

[The New Sea Territory]

I think using the swastika as stylized by the Nazis and demanding "religious freedom" is a joke or loophole for actual nazis.

I think fylfot, kolovrat, triskele and similar swastika like symbols should be allowed though.

[Internationalist Bastard]

*looks at buddhists in my house*
Uh, yeah, Ima say swastika is a religious symbol.

[Internationalist Bastard]

There's no reason to ban religious usage, and I'm not aware of any countries that do. The German ban only applies to using it as a Nazi symbol.

Yep. The law isnt as awful as its being made out. Context is key, and I feel the argument in this thread is a disingenuous attempt to allow nazi symbolism.

Even so, I see it as repression of political freedom to repress it in Nazi context, as ironic as it is

[Ostroeuropa]

Yep. The law isnt as awful as its being made out. Context is key, and I feel the argument in this thread is a disingenuous attempt to allow nazi symbolism.

Even so, I see it as repression of political freedom to repress it in Nazi context, as ironic as it is

I agree, but if its the case, we need to go laicite on state employees and prevent them displaying religious or political icons while working for the public. The alternative is nazi symbolism sporting officials intimidating people away from public services.

In private, no symbols like that should be banned.

[Ulnattu]

To the common person, the swastika is a symbol of the Nazis and the horrors they committed upon Europe. Not of a peaceful minority faith. While its a shame Hitler has become associated with the symbol, it should still be banned in western nations.

Yes, ignorance is a great reason to push those who don't fit in with our worldview into the margins, where they will not threaten our ignorance.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Even so, I see it as repression of political freedom to repress it in Nazi context, as ironic as it is

I agree, but if its the case, we need to go laicite on state employees and prevent them displaying religious or political icons while working for the public. The alternative is nazi symbolism sporting officials intimidating people away from public services.

In private, no symbols like that should be banned.

I agree. Lot's of public, state stuff jobs ussually tell you to keep religoius stuff private, and I always thought politics should be the same, kinda like the military

[Ostroeuropa]

I agree, but if its the case, we need to go laicite on state employees and prevent them displaying religious or political icons while working for the public. The alternative is nazi symbolism sporting officials intimidating people away from public services.

In private, no symbols like that should be banned.

I agree. Lot's of public, state stuff jobs ussually tell you to keep religoius stuff private, and I always thought politics should be the same, kinda like the military

It should really be the default.

[Chessmistress]

I think using the swastika as stylized by the Nazis and demanding "religious freedom" is a joke or loophole for actual nazis.

I think fylfot, kolovrat, triskeoe and similar swastika like symbols should be allowed though.

That's clear.
That's why I specified the kind of depictions that should be allowed and the kinds that shouldn't be allowed.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I think using the swastika as stylized by the Nazis and demanding "religious freedom" is a joke or loophole for actual nazis.

I think fylfot, kolovrat, triskeoe and similar swastika like symbols should be allowed though.

That's clear.
That's why I specified the kind of depictions that should be allowed and the kinds that shouldn't be allowed.

I dunno, isn't fascist to say that you express you are a nazi in the first place? Like, the irony is potent, but as free democracies that allow freedom of speech and expression, should we not allow people to have ignorant, hateful views as well?

[Federated Isles]

NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI

I personally am opposed to banning symbols being put up on private property because FREE SPEECH BRUH

NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI

[Lady Scylla]

Yep. The law isnt as awful as its being made out. Context is key, and I feel the argument in this thread is a disingenuous attempt to allow nazi symbolism.

Even so, I see it as repression of political freedom to repress it in Nazi context, as ironic as it is

And I agree with you. However, I also understand why Germany banned it. Overall, I don't have a strong enough opinion to say it should be repealed, I feel Germany will do it when they feel they can.

[Lady Scylla]

NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI

I personally am opposed to banning symbols being put up on private property because FREE SPEECH BRUH

NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI NO NAZI

You seem new here. If you want to stay here, I suggest you take a look at this.

[Aclion]

Is there even a point in banning the swastika in a Nazi context? I mean it's not like we can't ostracize people. Just because it's legal doesn't mean people have to accept it.

You seem new here.

Don't be to quick to judge, maybe he's just familiar with the mods.

[Proctopeo]

I oppose restrictions on the freedom of expression more than I oppose Nazism. Not much else to say at the moment, really.

[Philjia]

This is a Jain/Buddhist/Hindu swastika. Note the vertical edges. Popular with eastern religions and Nazis who can't draw. (Admittedly, this is a lot of them.)

This is a Nazi swastika. It is rotated and has diagonal edges. Popular with Nazis.

This is a fylfot. It has truncated edges. Popular with a variety of medieval European groups, both secular and religious, especially in Britain.

Clear? Clear.