Banning the swastika = religious discrimination?

[The Romulan Republic]

Yes, banning the swastika is unambiguously discrimination. Even if you feel it is justified discrimination, it is still discrimination, by definition. Of course, the Nazi Swastika has a particular appearance that is not the same as all other version of the Swastika, so perhaps it is not religious discrimination to ban the Nazi swastika specifically. But a general swastika ban is absolutely religious discrimination. The symbol predates the Nazis, and banning other uses of it is to me a surrender to the Nazis, allowing them to claim a symbol that is not their's as their own.

It is also a rather bitter irony that in the righteous cause of opposing the bigoted tyranny of the Nazis, we ourselves engage in discrimination against religious minorities.

[Genivaria]

Yes, banning the swastika is unambiguously discrimination. Even if you feel it is justified discrimination, it is still discrimination, by definition. Of course, the Nazi Swastika has a particular appearance that is not the same as all other version of the Swastika, so perhaps it is not religious discrimination to ban the Nazi swastika specifically. But a general swastika ban is absolutely religious discrimination. The symbol predates the Nazis, and banning other uses of it is to me a surrender to the Nahttps://forum.nationstates.net/postin ... 734019#zis, allowing them to claim a symbol that is not their's as their own.

It is also a rather bitter irony that in the righteous cause of opposing the bigoted tyranny of the Nazis, we ourselves engage in discrimination against religious minorities.

Which isn't happening.

[Luminesa]

What I'm saying is that in the context of the common Westerner's view, it's not a religious symbol. It's become a symbol of racism, fascism, white supremacy, and ironically enough, discrimination.

Because the west is the entire world, right?

Originally it was indeed a symbol used in Buddhism, and it originally certainly was not a symbol of hatred and genocide. But now it has become such.

[Southerly Gentleman]

Regardless, it's an infringement upon freedom of expression, therefore its ban is wrong

[Dilordaopia]

Regardless, it's an infringement upon freedom of expression, therefore its ban is wrong

If only more people were like you.

[Chricoma]

Me personally I support the Nazis in some things but i'm not gonna go into that because I have had the mods on me too many times now and I like this game, but the swastika is a symbol used by Hindus and Budhists the Nazis did not create it

[The Romulan Republic]

Yes, banning the swastika is unambiguously discrimination. Even if you feel it is justified discrimination, it is still discrimination, by definition. Of course, the Nazi Swastika has a particular appearance that is not the same as all other version of the Swastika, so perhaps it is not religious discrimination to ban the Nazi swastika specifically. But a general swastika ban is absolutely religious discrimination. The symbol predates the Nazis, and banning other uses of it is to me a surrender to the Nahttps://forum.nationstates.net/postin ... 734019#zis, allowing them to claim a symbol that is not their's as their own.

It is also a rather bitter irony that in the righteous cause of opposing the bigoted tyranny of the Nazis, we ourselves engage in discrimination against religious minorities.

Which isn't happening.

I thought their were some places with fairly absolute bans (besides this forum, I mean), but I could be mistaken.

If so, then that's good.

[Luminesa]

Me personally I support the Nazis in some things but i'm not gonna go into that because I have had the mods on me too many times now and I like this game, but the swastika is a symbol used by Hindus and Budhists the Nazis did not create it

And why do you support the Nazis?

[Aclion]

Oh, hell, how many damn times has this come up? It doesn't matter if it was once a symbol of peace, after it's been warped into something so hateful and irrevocably associated with the Nazis people tend to take offense to it. You know, what with 6 million dead because of it. But hey, that's just me.

Meanwhile on your flag.

Anyway the Swastika is still a symbol for peace. The east didn't didn't just abandon it because Europe had another stupid war. But it's pretty fucked up that you think you should be allowed to regulate their freedom of expression based on something they didn't even do, but your fellow westerners did.

[Aelex]

Meanwhile on your flag.

To be fair, the Byzantines only called for the Croisades and didn't participated in them. The Croisades themselves being a mere response to the holy wars the Muslims waged against Christians.

[Valystria]

You can tell it's a totalitarian ideology or religion when it arbitrarily bans symbols.

[Zombie Swarms]

You can tell it's a totalitarian ideology or religion when it arbitrarily bans symbols.

100% agree...

[The Plonks]

You can tell it's a totalitarian ideology or religion when it arbitrarily bans symbols.

It's not arbitrary, it was banned because it is offensive to many people and was used by Nazis as a symbol of hate and racism.

Though, I think it should not be banned. It was, and is still being used by many other people as a symbol of good fortune and peace. Just because it was hijacked by Nazis and used by them for 2 decades does not mean that we should ban it. If anything, encourage the use of the Buddhist swastika and teach people about the symbol's origins.

[Aclion]

You can tell it's a totalitarian ideology or religion when it arbitrarily bans symbols.

It's not arbitrary, it was banned because it is offensive to many people and was used by Nazis as a symbol of hate and racism.

Though, I think it should not be banned. It was, and is still being used by many other people as a symbol of good fortune and peace. Just because it was hijacked by Nazis and used by them for 2 decades does not mean that we should ban it. If anything, encourage the use of the Buddhist swastika and teach people about the symbol's origins.

It is arbitrary. Because many other symbols used in the same way are not banned. The swastika was banned because the literally billions of people who use the symbol peacefully were not Europeans, and therefore had no value.

[Thermodolia]

It's not arbitrary, it was banned because it is offensive to many people and was used by Nazis as a symbol of hate and racism.

Though, I think it should not be banned. It was, and is still being used by many other people as a symbol of good fortune and peace. Just because it was hijacked by Nazis and used by them for 2 decades does not mean that we should ban it. If anything, encourage the use of the Buddhist swastika and teach people about the symbol's origins.

It is arbitrary. Because many other symbols used in the same way are not banned. The swastika was banned because the literally billions of people who use the symbol peacefully were not Europeans, and therefore had no value.

Swastikas in Germany are only banned when they have to do with promoting Naziism, religious swastikas are completely exempt.

[Genivaria]

Meanwhile on your flag.

To be fair, the Byzantines only called for the Croisades and didn't participated in them. The Croisades themselves being a mere response to the holy wars the Muslims waged against Christians.

Even just the first Crusade was far more of a pain to the Byzantines then any real help.

[Neanderthaland]

Meanwhile on your flag.

To be fair, the Byzantines only called for the Croisades and didn't participated in them. The Croisades themselves being a mere response to the holy wars the Muslims waged against Christians.

Any Medieval Historian worth the title will tell you that what the Byzantines were asking for were a few well-trained mercenaries, and not a Crusade.

They were very irritated with the response they got.

[Nationalist Gold Union]

Oh, hell, how many damn times has this come up? It doesn't matter if it was once a symbol of peace, after it's been warped into something so hateful and irrevocably associated with the Nazis people tend to take offense to it. You know, what with 6 million dead because of it. But hey, that's just me.

The Nazis didn't only kill 6 million Jews. There were anywhere between 15 to 30 million victims of the Nazi regime.

[Genivaria]

To be fair, the Byzantines only called for the Croisades and didn't participated in them. The Croisades themselves being a mere response to the holy wars the Muslims waged against Christians.

Any Medieval Historian worth the title will tell you that what the Byzantines were asking for were a few well-trained mercenaries, and not a Crusade.

They were very irritated with the response they got.

Specifically ones that answered to the Byzantines and wouldn't seize any former Byzantine land
The creation of the Kingdom of Jerusalem shows how that worked out.

You know despite the Crusading nobles all swearing they wouldn't.

[Risottia]

Welp, governments easily go full retard. Germany and Austria banned the Swastika after WW2, but this has never been complained about by anyone. Why? Because it seems that all the religions that use it are irrelevant.

Yes, guess what, in Europe the Nazi-Fascist genocides and aggression wars are much more relevant than the use of swastikas by religions. Curious, innit?

[Dilordaopia]

Oh, hell, how many damn times has this come up? It doesn't matter if it was once a symbol of peace, after it's been warped into something so hateful and irrevocably associated with the Nazis people tend to take offense to it. You know, what with 6 million dead because of it. But hey, that's just me.

The Nazis didn't only kill 6 million Jews. There were anywhere between 15 to 30 million victims of the Nazi regime.

That is including non-holocaust related murders, right?

[USS Monitor]

It is also a rather bitter irony that in the righteous cause of opposing the bigoted tyranny of the Nazis, we ourselves engage in discrimination against religious minorities.

Who's "we"?

[Dilordaopia]

Welp, governments easily go full retard. Germany and Austria banned the Swastika after WW2, but this has never been complained about by anyone. Why? Because it seems that all the religions that use it are irrelevant.

Yes, guess what, in Europe the Nazi-Fascist genocides and aggression wars are much more relevant than the use of swastikas by religions. Curious, innit?

Europe is not the whole fucking world.
Gotcha liberal.

[Genivaria]

Yes, guess what, in Europe the Nazi-Fascist genocides and aggression wars are much more relevant than the use of swastikas by religions. Curious, innit?

Europe is not the whole fucking world.
Gotcha liberal.

Outside of Europe is irrelevant to this discussion.

[Dilordaopia]

Europe is not the whole fucking world.
Gotcha liberal.

Outside of Europe is irrelevant to this discussion.

Not really.
Many religions that use the swastika originated outside of Europe.