[UK] Prince Charles: don’t repeat the horrors of the past

[Minoa]

I'm not sure if you have noticed but almost all "Ebil Eurosceptic Parties!!1!" are traditional liberal to centre-left parties. The only large Eurosceptic nazi party around is Golden Dawn in Greece and their support has collapsed since the last elections there. You aren't going to get executed by a new regime consolidating its power... Yet.

Let me also ask you, how do you view disabled people like me? Those who are disabled but of no fault of their own? The people who were targeted by the Nazi regime (Action T4)? How are they going to trust some right-wing populists with far-right backgrounds to resist the temptation to go down that route?

[Arkinesia]

Man, I haven't laughed this much over an NS thread in a long time.

The alternative-reality right-wing conspiracy machine in full swing here, not to mention bringing up conflicts that ended literally centuries ago.

[Brachauland]

I'm not sure if you have noticed but almost all "Ebil Eurosceptic Parties!!1!" are traditional liberal to centre-left parties. The only large Eurosceptic nazi party around is Golden Dawn in Greece and their support has collapsed since the last elections there. You aren't going to get executed by a new regime consolidating its power... Yet.

Let me also ask you, how do you view disabled people like me? Those who are disabled but of no fault of their own? The people who were targeted by the Nazi regime (Action T4)? How are they going to trust some right-wing populists with far-right backgrounds to resist the temptation to go down that route?

I'm not sure about your Eurosceptic party in that case, but the PVV in the Netherlands is a more reformist party that wants more money spent on healthcare for disabled and elderly people.

It isn't all exactly the same. Besides, there isn't any major Eurosceptic party which is advocating for the extermination of all disabled people. Not even Golden Dawn are advocating for that, and they are on Papadopoulos level of the Greek authoritarian scale. You also also just degrading eurosceptics to the level of nazis, which is definately not going to help your cause.

[Arkinesia]

You also also just degrading eurosceptics to the level of nazis, which is definately not going to help your cause.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…

[Brachauland]

You also also just degrading eurosceptics to the level of nazis, which is definately not going to help your cause.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…

I still have to see Eurosceptic parties advocating for the extermination of the untermensch, abolition of democracy, and irrendentism.

In that case, you are a bunch of raging mass-murdering Stalinists that should be rounded up and shot.

[Arkinesia]

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…

I still have to see Eurosceptic parties advocating for the extermination of the untermensch, abolition of democracy, and irrendentism.

In that case, you are a bunch of raging mass-murdering Stalinists that should be rounded up and shot.

How the hell can a Chicago school neoliberal be a Stalinist? At all? That doesn't make any sense!

[Brachauland]

I still have to see Eurosceptic parties advocating for the extermination of the untermensch, abolition of democracy, and irrendentism.

In that case, you are a bunch of raging mass-murdering Stalinists that should be rounded up and shot.

How the hell can a Chicago school neoliberal be a Stalinist? At all? That doesn't make any sense!

Just as calling me a nazi doesn't make sense

[Imperializt Russia]

How the hell can a Chicago school neoliberal be a Stalinist? At all? That doesn't make any sense!

Just as calling me a nazi doesn't make sense

Has anyone called you a Nazi?

So far as I can work out, all we've done is said "right wing populism is bad", and then pointed out how alarmingly close some aspects of right-wing populist movements and actual Nazi ideology are, and said "you know what lies at the end of this road, yeah?"

[Brachauland]

Just as calling me a nazi doesn't make sense

Has anyone called you a Nazi?

So far as I can work out, all we've done is said "right wing populism is bad", and then pointed out how alarmingly close some aspects of right-wing populist movements and actual Nazi ideology are, and said "you know what lies at the end of this road, yeah?"

Which aspects are close to actual nazism then? I haven't seen them remilitarising ze Rheinland and calling for the deportation of Jews just yet.

[Ifreann]

How the hell can a Chicago school neoliberal be a Stalinist? At all? That doesn't make any sense!

Just as calling me a nazi doesn't make sense

No? You did say earlier that if people(including Prince Charles) keep badmouthing "us" you'll join the fascists, did you not? Seems to me that if all it takes for you to throw your lot in with the fascists is a perception that people are saying mean things about you, then you were never that far from being a fascist to begin with. In which case calling you a Nazi would not be very incorrect.

[Brachauland]

Just as calling me a nazi doesn't make sense

No? You did say earlier that if people(including Prince Charles) keep badmouthing "us" you'll join the fascists, did you not? Seems to me that if all it takes for you to throw your lot in with the fascists is a perception that people are saying mean things about you, then you were never that far from being a fascist to begin with. In which case calling you a Nazi would not be very incorrect.

I've actually been part of the social-democratic movement in the Netherlands instead, but left after we've had a little putsch in our main social-democrat party that resulted in our main eurosceptic socialist being excluded from the party.

I've meant that I'd rather just side with the fascists and save my skin since a lot of people are going to express their anger very soon.

[Vassenor]

Has anyone called you a Nazi?

So far as I can work out, all we've done is said "right wing populism is bad", and then pointed out how alarmingly close some aspects of right-wing populist movements and actual Nazi ideology are, and said "you know what lies at the end of this road, yeah?"

Which aspects are close to actual nazism then? I haven't seen them remilitarising ze Rheinland and calling for the deportation of Jews just yet.

Because calling for the deportation of Muslims is totally different.

[Brachauland]

Which aspects are close to actual nazism then? I haven't seen them remilitarising ze Rheinland and calling for the deportation of Jews just yet.

Because calling for the deportation of Muslims is totally different.

I've yet to see an eurosceptic party come up with a plan to deport muslims.

[Imperializt Russia]

Which aspects are close to actual nazism then? I haven't seen them remilitarising ze Rheinland and calling for the deportation of Jews just yet.

Because calling for the deportation of Muslims is totally different.

"We can administer ethnicity tests so we can send them back where they belong. It doesn't matter if they were born here."

Paraphrased statement of a French far-rightist.

[Minoa]

Just as calling me a nazi doesn't make sense

Reviews all my posts in this thread

Nope, I did not refer to anyone by such name. Racism, homophobia, ableism and hostility towards free expression is what I am complaining about and I am not complaining specifically about one right-wing populist party in particular, given that I have considered the developments in Hungary and Poland. But that should not deter reasonable concerns about repeating the mistakes of the past, as I tried to.

[Aelex]

"We can administer ethnicity tests so we can send them back where they belong. It doesn't matter if they were born here."

Paraphrased statement of a French far-rightist.

Can we have some delicious sauce on this one pls?

[Vassenor]

Because calling for the deportation of Muslims is totally different.

I've yet to see an eurosceptic party come up with a plan to deport muslims.

Clearly you've never been around the AfD then.

[Brachauland]

Because calling for the deportation of Muslims is totally different.

"We can administer ethnicity tests so we can send them back where they belong. It doesn't matter if they were born here."

Paraphrased statement of a French far-rightist.

Could you give me the source of that statement? I'd prefer to know who said that and if he/she has any influence on policy making.

Just as calling me a nazi doesn't make sense

Reviews all my posts in this thread

Nope, I did not refer to anyone by such name. Racism, homophobia, ableism and hostility towards free expression is what I am complaining about and I am not complaining specifically about one right-wing populist party in particular, given that I have considered the developments in Hungary and Poland. But that should not deter reasonable concerns about repeating the mistakes of the past, as I tried to.

First off, I didn't say anyone is calling me a nazi. Didn't say 'you' or anyone's name in here.

Secondly, Hungary and Poland are not really part of the liberal society but rather part of the more conservative christian part of Europe. Duda isn't going around reversing rights of minorities: They were already implemented before he even took over control. There is no cosensus amongst populist parties in Europe: Front National definately has something against homosexuals while the Party for Freedom is very much protective of both homosexuals and people with a disability. I have to agree with you that racism is definately going to be a larger problem in the future, but I think that is probably from both sides of the argument towards eachother (there are plenty of arabic people in the West who have a deep hatred for white people) and I don't see how we are going to solve it with or without populist parties.

[Imperializt Russia]

"We can administer ethnicity tests so we can send them back where they belong. It doesn't matter if they were born here."

Paraphrased statement of a French far-rightist.

Can we have some delicious sauce on this one pls?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05psc6r
Documentary from 2015.

This clip:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02n3lmt
"We have public transport, we have planes, trains, boats, we can organise peacefully to send them back... we would have to know the origins of people, their parents, grandparents if necessary, then organise with that country."

"We can administer ethnicity tests so we can send them back where they belong. It doesn't matter if they were born here."

Paraphrased statement of a French far-rightist.

Could you give me the source of that statement? I'd prefer to know who said that and if he/she has any influence on policy making.

I called them a far-rightist. I never said they were a policymaker. I called them what they were, explicitly.
This was a person willing to give an interview to BBC3 as part of a documentary on "France Divided", which was made shortly after the Charlie Hebdo attacks. The interviewer, a British muslim of Pakistani descent, is also told by this person "If I was English, I'd say you weren't English" (she was born in the UK), and says she should be deported to Pakistan.

[Brachauland]

Can we have some delicious sauce on this one pls?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05psc6r
Documentary from 2015.

This clip:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02n3lmt
"We have public transport, we have planes, trains, boats, we can organise peacefully to send them back... we would have to know the origins of people, their parents, grandparents if necessary, then organise with that country."

Doesn't seem available for people from my location. Do you got a non-BBC source?

[Imperializt Russia]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05psc6r
Documentary from 2015.

This clip:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02n3lmt
"We have public transport, we have planes, trains, boats, we can organise peacefully to send them back... we would have to know the origins of people, their parents, grandparents if necessary, then organise with that country."

Doesn't seem available for people from my location. Do you got a non-BBC source?

Well, no, because it is a BBC documentary.

[Aelex]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05psc6r
Documentary from 2015.

This clip:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02n3lmt
"We have public transport, we have planes, trains, boats, we can organise peacefully to send them back... we would have to know the origins of people, their parents, grandparents if necessary, then organise with that country."

The clip doesn't play neither on my phone nor laptop. Try sending another link please.

Anyway, from the description, it looks like the guy is from the Bloc Identitaire, a "party" that boast the incredible number of 2000 members (or at least claims so).
So, I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove by "paraphrasing" him but you would have an about as good case if you just went "paraphrasing" what a random drunk guy said in a pub on foreigners.

[Imperializt Russia]

You could glance maybe one post up as to why I haven't provided an alternate link - there isn't one.
I've screenshotted the relevant statements as subtitles, I cannot be arsed to stitch them together.

[Old Tyrannia]

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…

I still have to see Eurosceptic parties advocating for the extermination of the untermensch, abolition of democracy, and irrendentism.

In that case, you are a bunch of raging mass-murdering Stalinists that should be rounded up and shot.

Brachauland: That last bit was over the line. Given the context I don't think it can be read as actually advocating death, but watch yourself in future. Consider this an unofficial warning.

[Minoa]

First off, I didn't say anyone is calling me a nazi. Didn't say 'you' or anyone's name in here.

Secondly, Hungary and Poland are not really part of the liberal society but rather part of the more conservative christian part of Europe. Duda isn't going around reversing rights of minorities: They were already implemented before he even took over control. There is no cosensus amongst populist parties in Europe: Front National definately has something against homosexuals while the Party for Freedom is very much protective of both homosexuals and people with a disability. I have to agree with you that racism is definately going to be a larger problem in the future, but I think that is probably from both sides of the argument towards eachother (there are plenty of arabic people in the West who have a deep hatred for white people) and I don't see how we are going to solve it with or without populist parties.

Unless all those right-wing populist parties unite together to tackle racism, homophobia, ableism and hostility towards free expression in their ranks, then the negative image, from those who do want change, and criticise the establishment, but are mindful of preventing racism, homophobia, ableism and hostility towards free expression, is going to worsen. I’m not going to support mass deportations of people just because they have a different ethnicity but entered the country legally.