Islamic Discussion Thread ٣

[The Eternal Aulus]

It's for Allah swt to decide.

True, at the end of the day it is. Doesn't mean we can't try tho

As long we do our best and have intention to make Allah swt happy.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

True, at the end of the day it is. Doesn't mean we can't try tho

As long we do our best and have intention to make Allah swt happy.

Insha-Allah.

[Pilarcraft]

Can you give sources for either?

For driving:
(The basis for the following is about "riding camels", as they were the only 'vehicles' at the time the Ahadiith in question were said.)
Ironically, from a Shia perspective, You can find this hadiith in "Wasa'el-ash-shi'e" on the prophet that claims
«يَشَّبَّهُ الرِّجَالُ بِالنِّسَاءِ وَ النِّسَاءُ بِالرِّجَالِ وَ يَرْکَبْنَ ذَوَاتُ الْفُرُوجِ السُّرُوجَ فَعَلَيْهِمْ مِنْ أُمَّتِي لَعْنَةُ اللَّه»
which is a jibe at both the transvestites and women who ride "Markab"s (which meant horses or camels at the time), and by a Qiyas argument, you can equalize riding a horse to driving a car, which is the current equivalent. I'm not sure about the Sunni argument, but Women riding "Markab"s is Makruh according to The Shi'e, and the reason is the usual "it might make guys think baaaaad thingsssssss"
The Sunnis don't have a definite argument for either, and The Wahabbis believe in the ban because they just don't understand the point of wtf Makruh means.

On Singing: look into Al-Qazzali (1901 and 1902), apparently the sound of a woman's singing can "The voice of women could seduce the listener", and therefore it is considered Qena. Again, Qena in and of itself is considered Haraam, hence women's singing being haraam and thus illegal.

[The Eternal Aulus]

Can you give sources for either?

For driving:
(The basis for the following is about "riding camels", as they were the only 'vehicles' at the time the Ahadiith in question were said.)
Ironically, from a Shia perspective, You can find this hadiith in "Wasa'el-ash-shi'e" on the prophet that claims
«يَشَّبَّهُ الرِّجَالُ بِالنِّسَاءِ وَ النِّسَاءُ بِالرِّجَالِ وَ يَرْکَبْنَ ذَوَاتُ الْفُرُوجِ السُّرُوجَ فَعَلَيْهِمْ مِنْ أُمَّتِي لَعْنَةُ اللَّه»
which is a jibe at both the transvestites and women who ride "Markab"s (which meant horses or camels at the time), and by a Qiyas argument, you can equalize riding a horse to driving a car, which is the current equivalent. I'm not sure about the Sunni argument, but Women riding "Markab"s is Makruh according to The Shi'e, and the reason is the usual "it might make guys think baaaaad thingsssssss"
The Sunnis don't have a definite argument for either, and The Wahabbis believe in the ban because they just don't understand the point of wtf Makruh means.

So it has no basis in Sunnah. Shias have different ahadeeth as well.

On Singing: look into Al-Qazzali (1901 and 1902), apparently the sound of a woman's singing can "The voice of women could seduce the listener", and therefore it is considered Qena. Again, Qena in and of itself is considered Haraam, hence women's singing being haraam and thus illegal.

I haven't read it but I do not see a basis on it on hadeeth or quran that it is the case therefore the Islamic basis is void. It's just a fatwa ie legalistic opinion. I haven't seen a scholastic consensus on it either.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

For driving:
(The basis for the following is about "riding camels", as they were the only 'vehicles' at the time the Ahadiith in question were said.)
Ironically, from a Shia perspective, You can find this hadiith in "Wasa'el-ash-shi'e" on the prophet that claims
«يَشَّبَّهُ الرِّجَالُ بِالنِّسَاءِ وَ النِّسَاءُ بِالرِّجَالِ وَ يَرْکَبْنَ ذَوَاتُ الْفُرُوجِ السُّرُوجَ فَعَلَيْهِمْ مِنْ أُمَّتِي لَعْنَةُ اللَّه»
which is a jibe at both the transvestites and women who ride "Markab"s (which meant horses or camels at the time), and by a Qiyas argument, you can equalize riding a horse to driving a car, which is the current equivalent. I'm not sure about the Sunni argument, but Women riding "Markab"s is Makruh according to The Shi'e, and the reason is the usual "it might make guys think baaaaad thingsssssss"
The Sunnis don't have a definite argument for either, and The Wahabbis believe in the ban because they just don't understand the point of wtf Makruh means.

So it has no basis in Sunnah. Shias have different ahadeeth as well.

True, but that doesn't mean their ahadith are automatically false.

[The Eternal Aulus]

So it has no basis in Sunnah. Shias have different ahadeeth as well.

True, but that doesn't mean their ahadith are automatically false.

Nor automatically sahih for Sunnis, that's more what I was implying.

[Negarakita]

Salam brothers and sisters

[The Eternal Aulus]

Salam brothers and sisters

Wa aleykum salaam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh

[Kubumba Tribe]

Salam brothers and sisters

Wa'Alaikum Assalam. How are you?

[Negarakita]

Salam brothers and sisters

Wa'Alaikum Assalam. How are you?

I'm great.

[Western Arab Empire]

Salam brothers and sisters

Wa Alaykum As Salam. Always great to have another Muslim fellow on this thread!

[Jolthig]

Assalaam o alakium, my friends.

What does Allah's attributes of Al-Rahman and Al-Rahim mean to you guys?

For me, these attributes mean that God is always there for me and hearing my prayers everyday. He answers us in distress and whatever state we are in.

Through His, Rahmaniyyat, we are here and have a purpose, and we must strive hard to gain Allah's Rahimiyyat.

Alhamdulilah

[Negarakita]

Salam brothers and sisters

Wa Alaykum As Salam. Always great to have another Muslim fellow on this thread!

This is Bhikkustan

[Aillyria]

Wa Alaykum As Salam. Always great to have another Muslim fellow on this thread!

This is Bhikkustan

Oh shit!!! How've you been Bhikkustan?!? Assalam!!!

[Negarakita]

This is Bhikkustan

Oh shit!!! How've you been Bhikkustan?!? Assalam!!!

I've been good, have a cold now tho

[Aillyria]

Oh shit!!! How've you been Bhikkustan?!? Assalam!!!

I've been good, have a cold now tho

Yeah, I have the American super flu that's been going around.

[Kubumba Tribe]

I'm gonna have to ask. do you count every piece of the U.S constitution (along with its... er you could say spin-offs such as the Declaration of Independence) as sometihng the world needs to be based on? because, you know, that might (in theory, at least) end up making something good but it won't be anything a muslim would want.

That's why I believe Islam needs a reformation and modernization first, we need a new updated interpretation of the Quran.

http://legacy.quran.com/8/20
http://legacy.quran.com/4/83
http://legacy.quran.com/33/36

[Aillyria]

That's why I believe Islam needs a reformation and modernization first, we need a new updated interpretation of the Quran.

http://legacy.quran.com/8/20
http://legacy.quran.com/4/83
http://legacy.quran.com/33/36

I don't get what there is to oppose about my post. I want to purge the faith of outdated and false hadith and fatwas. The old interpretation of the Quran is insufficient for modern life, it was suitable for the middle ages, but we need a modernized sharia.

[Genivaria]

That's why I believe Islam needs a reformation and modernization first, we need a new updated interpretation of the Quran.

http://legacy.quran.com/8/20
http://legacy.quran.com/4/83
http://legacy.quran.com/33/36

Did you know that just randomly quoting the Bible is ALSO not an argument and is just a cop-out?

[Kubumba Tribe]

http://legacy.quran.com/8/20
http://legacy.quran.com/4/83
http://legacy.quran.com/33/36

I don't get what there is to oppose about my post. I want to purge the faith of outdated and false hadith and fatwas. The old interpretation of the Quran is insufficient for modern life, it was suitable for the middle ages, but we need a modernized sharia.

See and take note of the last ayah I linked.

[Proctopeo]

I don't get what there is to oppose about my post. I want to purge the faith of outdated and false hadith and fatwas. The old interpretation of the Quran is insufficient for modern life, it was suitable for the middle ages, but we need a modernized sharia.

See and take note of the last ayah I linked.

What I'm gathering is that you're saying that it's wrong to reinterpret the Quran from a modern perspective, and that leaving it trapped forever in an increasingly backwards time period is a preferable option?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

See and take note of the last ayah I linked.

What I'm gathering is that you're saying that it's wrong to reinterpret the Quran from a modern perspective, and that leaving it trapped forever in a time period is a preferable option?

Yes.

[Proctopeo]

What I'm gathering is that you're saying that it's wrong to reinterpret the Quran from a modern perspective, and that leaving it trapped forever in a time period is a preferable option?

Yes.

Judging by your malicious quote edit, you believe that the world multiple centuries to over a millennium ago wasn't incredibly backwards compared to now?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Yes.

Judging by your malicious quote edit, you believe that the world multiple centuries to over a millennium ago wasn't incredibly backwards compared to now?

It wasn't malicious.
No, Al-Islam is not backwards.

[Proctopeo]

Judging by your malicious quote edit, you believe that the world multiple centuries to over a millennium ago wasn't incredibly backwards compared to now?

It wasn't malicious.
No, Al-Islam is not backwards.

How is it not malicious, and how is Islam not stuck far behind the rest of the world, including older, related religions?