Islamic Discussion Thread ٣

[Kubumba Tribe]

Both Thomshafen and Alsheb are right. Btw, Assalamu 'Alaikum Thomshafen and Alsheb.
Yes, Ahmadis have beliefs outside Al-Islam, but they still took their shahadah and they don't commit shirk. They still do some things that come from Al-Islam.

Assalamu 'Alaikum Aillyria, Muslim Islamic scholars should be listened to if they're on sound judgement. Not every scholar is untrustworthy, ukhti. If that wasn't what you were saying,
my apologies for jumping to conclusions.

And about islamqa, yes, they may be a Salafi website, but most of the time, they have pretty on point answers for questions. And I haven't come across any hate speech in islamqa so far.

[Alsheb]

Fatwas issued by some dodgy irrelevant ulemas don't mean shit.

Repeat what you said, and reflect on it.

You should do that regarding your takfiri behaviour.

[Alsheb]

I disagree fundamentally with the basic concept of the Ahmadiyya branch, but calling them kaffir is unacceptable for the simple fact that they adhere to the shahadah.
They do not take any prophets after Muhammad (pbuh) and they believe in tawhid. That makes them Muslims.

[Aillyria]

Both Thomshafen and Alsheb are right. Btw, Assalamu 'Alaikum Thomshafen and Alsheb.
Yes, Ahmadis have beliefs outside Al-Islam, but they still took their shahadah and they don't commit shirk. They still do some things that come from Al-Islam.

Assalamu 'Alaikum Aillyria, Muslim Islamic scholars should be listened to if they're on sound judgement. Not every scholar is untrustworthy, ukhti. If that wasn't what you were saying,
my apologies for jumping to conclusions.

And about islamqa, yes, they may be a Salafi website, but most of the time, they have pretty on point answers for questions. And I haven't come across any hate speech in islamqa so far.

The Quran is the only binding spiritual authority I recognize, not hadith, not scholars, not imams, only the Quran.

[Kubumba Tribe]

They do not take any prophets after Muhammad (pbuh)

Yes they do

Both Thomshafen and Alsheb are right. Btw, Assalamu 'Alaikum Thomshafen and Alsheb.
Yes, Ahmadis have beliefs outside Al-Islam, but they still took their shahadah and they don't commit shirk. They still do some things that come from Al-Islam.

Assalamu 'Alaikum Aillyria, Muslim Islamic scholars should be listened to if they're on sound judgement. Not every scholar is untrustworthy, ukhti. If that wasn't what you were saying,
my apologies for jumping to conclusions.

And about islamqa, yes, they may be a Salafi website, but most of the time, they have pretty on point answers for questions. And I haven't come across any hate speech in islamqa so far.

The Quran is the only binding spiritual authority I recognize, not hadith, not scholars, not imams, only the Quran.

http://legacy.quran.com/4/59

[Alsheb]

I got myself a copy of Destiny Distrupted: A History of the World through Islamic Eyes by Tamim Ansary today. It seems an amazing work so far.

[Pilarcraft]

Both Thomshafen and Alsheb are right. Btw, Assalamu 'Alaikum Thomshafen and Alsheb.
Yes, Ahmadis have beliefs outside Al-Islam, but they still took their shahadah and they don't commit shirk. They still do some things that come from Al-Islam.

Assalamu 'Alaikum Aillyria, Muslim Islamic scholars should be listened to if they're on sound judgement. Not every scholar is untrustworthy, ukhti. If that wasn't what you were saying,
my apologies for jumping to conclusions.

And about islamqa, yes, they may be a Salafi website, but most of the time, they have pretty on point answers for questions. And I haven't come across any hate speech in islamqa so far.

The Quran is the only binding spiritual authority I recognize, not hadith, not scholars, not imams, only the Quran.

far be it from me to judge, but that doesn't exactly leave much for you to go by. The Quran is, for all its talk of "most complete holy book ever", kinda full of loopholes ( which is kinda why the concept of "Fiqh" was even created once Muhammad, his Sahaba, and even their tabi'in had passed away. If Quran was enough, there wouldn't be a need for muslims, as a whole, to use Hadith or rationalization (which is what Qiyas is supposed to be) to make rules.

[Flazak-Wielko]

Fatwas issued by some dodgy irrelevant ulemas don't mean shit.

Repeat what you said, and reflect on it.

I didn't know they had computers at madrassas now?

[Aillyria]

The Quran is the only binding spiritual authority I recognize, not hadith, not scholars, not imams, only the Quran.

far be it from me to judge, but that doesn't exactly leave much for you to go by. The Quran is, for all its talk of "most complete holy book ever", kinda full of loopholes ( which is kinda why the concept of "Fiqh" was even created once Muhammad, his Sahaba, and even their tabi'in had passed away. If Quran was enough, there wouldn't be a need for muslims, as a whole, to use Hadith or rationalization (which is what Qiyas is supposed to be) to make rules.

I view man made rulings as only opinions or suggestions, not binding.

[Kubumba Tribe]

far be it from me to judge, but that doesn't exactly leave much for you to go by. The Quran is, for all its talk of "most complete holy book ever", kinda full of loopholes ( which is kinda why the concept of "Fiqh" was even created once Muhammad, his Sahaba, and even their tabi'in had passed away. If Quran was enough, there wouldn't be a need for muslims, as a whole, to use Hadith or rationalization (which is what Qiyas is supposed to be) to make rules.

I view man made rulings as only opinions or suggestions, not binding.

They become binding when the scholars' statements are based on the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah.

[Pilarcraft]

far be it from me to judge, but that doesn't exactly leave much for you to go by. The Quran is, for all its talk of "most complete holy book ever", kinda full of loopholes ( which is kinda why the concept of "Fiqh" was even created once Muhammad, his Sahaba, and even their tabi'in had passed away. If Quran was enough, there wouldn't be a need for muslims, as a whole, to use Hadith or rationalization (which is what Qiyas is supposed to be) to make rules.

I view man made rulings as only opinions or suggestions, not binding.

I mean, personally I agree with you on this, but from an Islamic POV (Especially, a mainstream Muslim's), one has to admit Quran is pretty vague (especially for smaller legal issues, as Fiqh is about)
If Quran is vague about an issue, you are forced to use a man's ruling (because there is no divine ruling, or at least it's not specific enough to fit many legal situations)
This, obviously, brings about the question of "Individual vs. Authority". Who's ruling are you going to follow? The Prophet's? the Clerics'? Yourself?
(The Mainstream Islamic view, being authoritarian, obviously answers this by "Prophet or Cleric. almost never Yourself")

[Pilarcraft]

I view man made rulings as only opinions or suggestions, not binding.

They become binding when the scholars' statements are based on the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah.

except for the small detail of The Sunnat being a man's memory of an event (happened to... you guessed it... another man), written down 1200ish years ago (aka 200ish years after the event had happened and 50ish years after the last person around to see it had died), and victim to change as the rulers would go.

[Aillyria]

I view man made rulings as only opinions or suggestions, not binding.

They become binding when the scholars' statements are based on the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah.

I literally don't care about the Sunnah.....Quran > Sunnah > Hadith.

[Kubumba Tribe]

They become binding when the scholars' statements are based on the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah.

I literally don't care about the Sunnah

Every Muslim should care about everything in Al-Islam

Quran > Sunnah > Hadith.

Of course. Doesn't mean the latter 2 are trash.

[Aillyria]

I literally don't care about the Sunnah

Every Muslim should care about everything in Al-Islam

Quran > Sunnah > Hadith.

Of course. Doesn't mean the latter 2 are trash.

I wouldn't have issue with the Sunnah or the Hadith if they we recognized as advise, not binding obligatory rulings....which they cannot be.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Every Muslim should care about everything in Al-Islam

Of course. Doesn't mean the latter 2 are trash.

I wouldn't have issue with the Sunnah or the Hadith if they we recognized as advise, not binding obligatory rulings....which they cannot be.

eeeeeeeeeh, idc about that. Things the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) ordered us to do should be followed they are tested to be sahih.

[Aillyria]

I wouldn't have issue with the Sunnah or the Hadith if they we recognized as advise, not binding obligatory rulings....which they cannot be.

eeeeeeeeeh, idc about that. Things the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) ordered us to do should be followed they are tested to be sahih.

Written by people who didn't even know Mohammed (pbuh).......not trustworthy.

[Kubumba Tribe]

eeeeeeeeeh, idc about that. Things the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) ordered us to do should be followed they are tested to be sahih.

Written by people who didn't even know Mohammed (pbuh).......not trustworthy.

Which is why there people to test their validity.......partially trustworthy

False equivalency: sometimes, what Muslims do =/= what Al-Islam teaches.
Of course, this could be used for my question to: what a country's gov does does not reflect the views of every single citizen living there. You have a point.

Also I am genuinely curious you say Islam doesn't preach the violent stuff

Never said that

[El-Amin Caliphate]

http://www.upbeacon.com/article/2017/04 ... -the-hijab
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/featur ... 21929.html
https://medium.com/muslim-women-speak/w ... 50e4cda15c
https://missmuslim.nyc/about-my-hijab/?amp_markup

https://www.islamicity.org/forum/printe ... ?TID=35227
https://www.al-islam.org/hijab-muslim-w ... /why-hijab
http://aboutislam.net/counseling/ask-ab ... the-hijab/
http://www.islamweb.net/en/article/1354 ... e-of-hijab

[Northern Davincia]

If there's one thing I had to say that Islam has over Christianity, it's hijabs. Those things are stylish.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

If there's one thing I had to say that Islam has over Christianity, it's hijabs. Those things are stylish.

Thx
Technically tho, Christianity has those too: https://www.islamreligion.com/articles/ ... ah-part-1/
And Judaism: http://www.judaism-islam.com/female-hai ... and-islam/

[Al-Ismailiyya]

So, apparently rejecting ahadith makes me a murtad, according to this fellow. See, this is why I am not in that "Muslim Discord". Both of the people I've spoken to from it have invoked takfir on several occasions. First, with that other guy who invoked takfir against Ailly and now this guy invoking it against me and other ahadith rejectors.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

So, apparently rejecting ahadith makes me a murtad, according to this fellow. See, this is why I am not in that "Muslim Discord". Both of the people I've spoken to from it have invoked takfir on several occasions. First, with that other guy who invoked takfir against Ailly and now this guy invoking it against me and other ahadith rejectors.

Do you reject all ahadith, or some/majority?

[Al-Ismailiyya]

So, apparently rejecting ahadith makes me a murtad, according to this fellow. See, this is why I am not in that "Muslim Discord". Both of the people I've spoken to from it have invoked takfir on several occasions. First, with that other guy who invoked takfir against Ailly and now this guy invoking it against me and other ahadith rejectors.

Do you reject all ahadith, or some/majority?

A majority.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Do you reject all ahadith, or some/majority?

A majority.

Then I don't see the reason that Tomshafen would say that. Maybe he misunderstood you?
Also, I understand why you might reject a majority of ahadith, but if you aren't qualified to find out if ahadith are true or not, I don't think you should be trying to do so, leave that to the ulama.