Islamic Discussion Thread ٣

[Kubumba Tribe]

Assalamu 'Alaikum
Al-Islam does say that freeing slaves is a blessing and it's part of Shari'ah, but what Al-Islam does not say is that slavery is haram. That doesn't mean slaves should be mistreated though, as mistreatment of anyone is wrong and slaves shouldn't be burdened with more than they can bear. In short, slaves should be treated with kindness and honor.

Wa alaykum assalam.

Or slavery can be recognised as the abhorrent practice it is and that it has no place at all in the modern day.

That too

[The Alma Mater]

Islam and religion in general are an affront to freedom.

"Freedom", isn't a virtue. People don't seem to realize that.

Because it is a virtue in the west. Just like honesty and owing up to mistakes - while e.g. middle eastern cultures place far more importance on appearance and the avoidance of shame and see very little value in self-reflection.

This cultural difference lies of the root of many problems immigrants and natives have with eachother. For when one side considers a "simple"[1] sorry the very least one can do, the other side sees that as the ultimate example of humiliation and grovelling and will resist vehemently.


[1] Where "simple" is actually quite complex. An apology in the west requires at least 7 ingredients - saying sorry, explicitly mentioning what you are sorry about, explaining why you did it, adjust your bodylanguage to show shame, promise to do better, offer to fix what you did wrong and respectfully listen to the other rant about you.
Just try getting a Turk or Moroccan to do that. Or a Donald Trump

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Islam and religion in general are an affront to freedom.

"Freedom", isn't a virtue. People don't seem to realize that.

T. Person who believes submission is a virtue.

[Alsheb]

Assalamu 'Alaikum
Al-Islam does say that freeing slaves is a blessing and it's part of Shari'ah, but what Al-Islam does not say is that slavery is haram. That doesn't mean slaves should be mistreated though, as mistreatment of anyone is wrong and slaves shouldn't be burdened with more than they can bear. In short, slaves should be treated with kindness and honor.

Wa alaykum assalam.

Or slavery can be recognised as the abhorrent practice it is and that it has no place at all in the modern day.

Indeed. Plus, note how slavery is also in fact a form of enforced idolatry, as it forces submission of the slave to another person. Submission should be reserved to Allah alone.

[Kubumba Tribe]

"Freedom", isn't a virtue. People don't seem to realize that.

Because it is a virtue in the west. Just like honesty and owing up to mistakes - while e.g. middle eastern cultures place far more importance on appearance and the avoidance of shame and see very little value in self-reflection.

This cultural difference lies of the root of many problems immigrants and natives have with eachother. For when one side considers a "simple"[1] sorry the very least one can do, the other side sees that as the ultimate example of humiliation and grovelling and will resist vehemently.


[1] Where "simple" is actually quite complex. An apology in the west requires at least 7 ingredients - saying sorry, explicitly mentioning what you are sorry about, explaining why you did it, adjust your bodylanguage to show shame, promise to do better, offer to fix what you did wrong and respectfully listen to the other rant about you.
Just try getting a Turk or Moroccan to do that. Or a Donald Trump

I'm not saying you're racist, but that's how this post looks.
Source?

[Larin]

"Freedom", isn't a virtue. People don't seem to realize that.

Because it is a virtue in the west. Just like honesty and owing up to mistakes - while e.g. middle eastern cultures place far more importance on appearance and the avoidance of shame and see very little value in self-reflection.

This cultural difference lies of the root of many problems immigrants and natives have with eachother. For when one side considers a "simple"[1] sorry the very least one can do, the other side sees that as the ultimate example of humiliation and grovelling and will resist vehemently.


[1] Where "simple" is actually quite complex. An apology in the west requires at least 7 ingredients - saying sorry, explicitly mentioning what you are sorry about, explaining why you did it, adjust your bodylanguage to show shame, promise to do better, offer to fix what you did wrong and respectfully listen to the other rant about you.
Just try getting a Turk or Moroccan to do that. Or a Donald Trump

I don't know what you mean by the last sentenced which i bolded, and about the middle eastern cultures: I think you are talking about dress code which you totally skip Jordan and Israel and Lebanon and Palestine where there is no Islamic/religious dress code

[Aillyria]

"Freedom", isn't a virtue. People don't seem to realize that.

Because it is a virtue in the west. Just like honesty and owing up to mistakes - while e.g. middle eastern cultures place far more importance on appearance and the avoidance of shame and see very little value in self-reflection.

This cultural difference lies of the root of many problems immigrants and natives have with eachother. For when one side considers a "simple"[1] sorry the very least one can do, the other side sees that as the ultimate example of humiliation and grovelling and will resist vehemently.


[1] Where "simple" is actually quite complex. An apology in the west requires at least 7 ingredients - saying sorry, explicitly mentioning what you are sorry about, explaining why you did it, adjust your bodylanguage to show shame, promise to do better, offer to fix what you did wrong and respectfully listen to the other rant about you.
Just try getting a Turk or Moroccan to do that. Or a Donald Trump

The fact that the Dharmic faiths and Sufism exist and are very influential in the East, debunks your assertion that Eastern tradition "sees little value in self-reflection", infact it's quite the opposite. And humility is the dominant factor in the East, while egoism is so in the West.....I don't know where you conjured up this 7-fold conception of western apology from.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Because it is a virtue in the west. Just like honesty and owing up to mistakes - while e.g. middle eastern cultures place far more importance on appearance and the avoidance of shame and see very little value in self-reflection.

This cultural difference lies of the root of many problems immigrants and natives have with eachother. For when one side considers a "simple"[1] sorry the very least one can do, the other side sees that as the ultimate example of humiliation and grovelling and will resist vehemently.


[1] Where "simple" is actually quite complex. An apology in the west requires at least 7 ingredients - saying sorry, explicitly mentioning what you are sorry about, explaining why you did it, adjust your bodylanguage to show shame, promise to do better, offer to fix what you did wrong and respectfully listen to the other rant about you.
Just try getting a Turk or Moroccan to do that. Or a Donald Trump

The fact that the Dharmic faiths and Sufism exist and are very influential in the East, debunks your assertion that Eastern tradition "sees little value in self-reflection".

We already have Al-Islam for that.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Because it is a virtue in the west. Just like honesty and owing up to mistakes - while e.g. middle eastern cultures place far more importance on appearance and the avoidance of shame and see very little value in self-reflection.

This cultural difference lies of the root of many problems immigrants and natives have with eachother. For when one side considers a "simple"[1] sorry the very least one can do, the other side sees that as the ultimate example of humiliation and grovelling and will resist vehemently.


[1] Where "simple" is actually quite complex. An apology in the west requires at least 7 ingredients - saying sorry, explicitly mentioning what you are sorry about, explaining why you did it, adjust your bodylanguage to show shame, promise to do better, offer to fix what you did wrong and respectfully listen to the other rant about you.
Just try getting a Turk or Moroccan to do that. Or a Donald Trump

I don't know what you mean by the last sentenced which i bolded, and about the middle eastern cultures: I think you are talking about dress code which you totally skip Jordan and Israel and Lebanon and Palestine where there is no Islamic/religious dress code

You sure about that?
If true, there should be an Islamic dress code in Muslim-majority countries.

[Aillyria]

The fact that the Dharmic faiths and Sufism exist and are very influential in the East, debunks your assertion that Eastern tradition "sees little value in self-reflection".

We already have Al-Islam for that.

Sufism is part of Islam......

[Larin]

I don't know what you mean by the last sentenced which i bolded, and about the middle eastern cultures: I think you are talking about dress code which you totally skip Jordan and Israel and Lebanon and Palestine where there is no Islamic/religious dress code

You sure about that?
If true, there should be an Islamic dress code in Muslim-majority countries.

I am sure, and i agree that there should be an Islamic dress code in Muslim-majority countries

[Kubumba Tribe]

We already have Al-Islam for that.

Sufism is part of Islam......

Ik, I'm just saying there shouldn't be Sufism, Sunnism, Shi'ism, Salafism, etc.
http://legacy.quran.com/3/103, http://legacy.quran.com/6/159

[Jolthig]

Sufism is part of Islam......

Ik, I'm just saying there shouldn't be Sufism, Sunnism, Shi'ism, Salafism, etc.
http://legacy.quran.com/3/103, http://legacy.quran.com/6/159

Perhaps you are right, but your arguments do not help the situation much when you call Ahmadiyya a false sect as you have said in a previous debate between you and I.

If you take that attitude on Ahmadiyya, then I'm sorry, but your arguments will never work to bring Islam back together.

I'm willing to share my brotherhood with Muslims from other sects, but for those who are going to attack my sect and then say Islam should be united, I'm going to point out the hypocrisy in the arguments.

Now I know I'm going to change the context of the discussion now, but I wanted to point this out, brother.

[Flazak-Wielko]

Ahmadis are more pious than The Al-Saud's and any of the Bedouin monarchies...

[Aillyria]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is an Ahmadi?

[Al-Ismailiyya]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is an Ahmadi?

A follower of the Ahmadiyya sect, which started in in India in the late 19th century. It originated with the teachings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, who claimed to be the Mahdi. The 10 to 20 million Ahmadis today are led by a claimed caliph, Mirza Masroor Ahmad.

[Jolthig]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is an Ahmadi?

Ahmadiyya is a sect of Islam formed in 1889 by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani who claimed to be the Messiah and Mahdi. He claimed not to change anything in the Quran or sayings of the Prophet (saw) and instead said he came to restore these things after many centuries of the Muslims being lost in ignorance.

Ahmadis are more pious than The Al-Saud's and any of the Bedouin monarchies...

JazakAllah

[Alsheb]

Ahmadis are more pious than The Al-Saud's and any of the Bedouin monarchies...

True, but then again that is not that high of a standard.

[Aillyria]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is an Ahmadi?

Ahmadiyya is a sect of Islam formed in 1889 by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani who claimed to be the Messiah and Mahdi. He claimed not to change anything in the Quran or sayings of the Prophet (saw) and instead said he came to restore these things after many centuries of the Muslims being lost in ignorance.

Ahmadis are more pious than The Al-Saud's and any of the Bedouin monarchies...

JazakAllah

Hmm...that's a bit strange, but if he didn't claim anything is changed in scripture....I don't see the problem. I don't spend time learning about sects, tbh, I find it distracting to my growth in the faith.

[Jolthig]

Ahmadiyya is a sect of Islam formed in 1889 by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani who claimed to be the Messiah and Mahdi. He claimed not to change anything in the Quran or sayings of the Prophet (saw) and instead said he came to restore these things after many centuries of the Muslims being lost in ignorance.


JazakAllah

Hmm...that's a bit strange, but if he didn't claim anything is changed in scripture....I don't see the problem. I don't spend time learning about sects, tbh, I find it distracting to my growth in the faith.

Whatever works for you, sister.

[Flazak-Wielko]

Ahmadis are more pious than The Al-Saud's and any of the Bedouin monarchies...

True, but then again that is not that high of a standard.

True, but considering the Saudi apes claim to be "The most pious of all muslims" and their scholars call for the murder of Ahmadis, its fair game beeyatch

[Jolthig]

True, but then again that is not that high of a standard.

True, but considering the Saudi apes claim to be "The most pious of all muslims" and their scholars call for the murder of Ahmadis, its fair game beeyatch

That's true

[Kash Island]

True, but then again that is not that high of a standard.

True, but considering the Saudi apes claim to be "The most pious of all muslims" and their scholars call for the murder of Ahmadis, its fair game beeyatch

whow, spicy words

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Ik, I'm just saying there shouldn't be Sufism, Sunnism, Shi'ism, Salafism, etc.
http://legacy.quran.com/3/103, http://legacy.quran.com/6/159

Perhaps you are right, but your arguments do not help the situation much when you call Ahmadiyya a false sect as you have said in a previous debate between you and I.

If you take that attitude on Ahmadiyya, then I'm sorry, but your arguments will never work to bring Islam back together.

I'm willing to share my brotherhood with Muslims from other sects, but for those who are going to attack my sect and then say Islam should be united, I'm going to point out the hypocrisy in the arguments.

Now I know I'm going to change the context of the discussion now, but I wanted to point this out, brother.

1: I did not call Ahmadism a false sect. Islamically technically speaking, all sects are false
2: Al-Islam has been united and together for 1400+ yrs, Muslims, however, have not
3: This is not hypocrisy. I want all Muslims to be unified, I just don't want bid'ah and nifaaq to be popular.

[Jolthig]

Perhaps you are right, but your arguments do not help the situation much when you call Ahmadiyya a false sect as you have said in a previous debate between you and I.

If you take that attitude on Ahmadiyya, then I'm sorry, but your arguments will never work to bring Islam back together.

I'm willing to share my brotherhood with Muslims from other sects, but for those who are going to attack my sect and then say Islam should be united, I'm going to point out the hypocrisy in the arguments.

Now I know I'm going to change the context of the discussion now, but I wanted to point this out, brother.

1: I did not call Ahmadism a false sect. Islamically technically speaking, all sects are false
2: Al-Islam has been united and together for 1400+ yrs, Muslims, however, have not
3: This is not hypocrisy. I want all Muslims to be unified, I just don't want bid'ah and nifaaq to be popular.

My apologies then. I thought you and the tribe nation were two different people because of a discussion I had with that nation of yours a while back.

Yes I agree but in my personal andhumble opinion, only the Mahdi and Messiah can do such a thing and this is agreed by all Muslims?

It's possible I may have misjudged you for another brother on here but im pretty sure it was you that i had that discussion with over MGA?