Islamic Discussion Thread ٣

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

Yup. Nonsensical. Listen to it. The singer says "ya 'Umar al-Farooq" pretty clearly. Isn't that shirk, though?

How? Shurjah's right here, the singer was asking for peace on 'Umar (RA)

And how is saying "Ya Hussain" any different?

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

Proof?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-stCgnnoY8c

The fuck kind of "proof" is that? You just linked some barely viewed song off of YouTube that someone slapped the name Hezbollah on.

[Aillyria]

It's interesting tbh, you know alot.



I have read the Quran, and I still study it........

Wasn't making a personal attack on ya, sry if it came out that way.
What is panentheism/pantheism?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism

[Shurjah]

No when Hezbillah fights in war they yell Ya Fatima we say Allahu Akbar wa Izzatu billah

I keep forgetting that you have fought in battle against them and seen every Hezbollah fighter ever call out to Fatima, rather than Allah. My bad.

I have seen nemerous videos of it and I never held a combat position against the Shiia but I was in the municipality's police and was tasked with border secuirty but never saw combat

[Kubumba Tribe]

How? Shurjah's right here, the singer was asking for peace on 'Umar (RA)

And how is saying "Ya Hussain" any different?

"Salaam 'alaika ya Hussein" is fine, it was pretty much the same thing the singer was doing.

[Shurjah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-stCgnnoY8c

The fuck kind of "proof" is that? You just linked some barely viewed song off of YouTube that someone slapped the name Hezbollah on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62jgavS5RO0

[Kubumba Tribe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-stCgnnoY8c

The fuck kind of "proof" is that? You just linked some barely viewed song off of YouTube that someone slapped the name Hezbollah on.

Also,
1: I don't speak Arabic, so I have no idea what they're saying
2: it sounds nice.

[Pilarcraft]

THAT must be why each of this 73 (and counting) sects also have their own sets of hadith that occasionally overlap!
Isn't it nice, calling it the Tradition of the Prophet, when writing Hadith was essentially illegal for the majority of the Rashidun Caliphate's reign, and then when the Umavid Era was quite famous for forging Ahaadith to further their own goals.
Seriously.
Stop.
the number of Ahadith that all sects agree upon simultaneously is so low it's embarrassing.

Evidence?

Well, I'm more versed in the Shia version of this, so here goes.
Ahaadith can be sorted into different groups, based on how trustable they are:
1) Sahih (صحیح): This type, Extremely rare, is the type of hadiith that has come from a group of people that can be trusted. the chain of narrators (selsele-al-raviyyun) needs to be completely clean, nobody in the entire chain can be trusted. Considering the fact that the majority of Ahadiith end their chain somewhere during Ali's reign or in an intenegrum in Umavid era, the number of Sahih hadiths that can be trusted are extremely rare. and even those are not completely trustable.
2) Hasan (حسن): these hadiiths, still rare, are good enough to go by, but not quite as clean as a Sahih hadith.
3) Da'if (ضعیف): The Weak ahaadith. and guess what, that's where the majority of Ahaadith fall into.

Anyway, this is not even relevant. It's like, common knowledge that the different sects of Islam (especially in the Shia vs Sunni arguments) don't agree upon the same ahadith. hell, their interpretation of different Ayaat of Quran can be different too. that's why there are so many tafsirs.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

I keep forgetting that you have fought in battle against them and seen every Hezbollah fighter ever call out to Fatima, rather than Allah. My bad.

I have seen nemerous videos of it and I never held a combat position against the Shiia but I was in the municipality's police and was tasked with border secuirty but never saw combat

That wasn't the point of my statement at all. I am saying that you have no actual substantiated proof that Hezbollah fighters do not call out to Allah. You have never fought against them and seen them do otherwise.

And how is saying "Ya Hussain" any different?

"Salaam 'alaika ya Hussein" is fine, it was pretty much the same thing the singer was doing.

That wasn't the point of the conversation, Amin.

The fuck kind of "proof" is that? You just linked some barely viewed song off of YouTube that someone slapped the name Hezbollah on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62jgavS5RO0

What exactly is that video supposed to prove? Someone slapped a song over some stock footage of fighters.

[Kubumba Tribe]

The fuck kind of "proof" is that? You just linked some barely viewed song off of YouTube that someone slapped the name Hezbollah on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62jgavS5RO0

Still have no idea what they're saying, and still sounds nice.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Evidence?

Well, I'm more versed in the Shia version of this, so here goes.
Ahaadith can be sorted into different groups, based on how trustable they are:
1) Sahih (صحیح): This type, Extremely rare, is the type of hadiith that has come from a group of people that can be trusted. the chain of narrators (selsele-al-raviyyun) needs to be completely clean, nobody in the entire chain can be trusted. Considering the fact that the majority of Ahadiith end their chain somewhere during Ali's reign or in an intenegrum in Umavid era, the number of Sahih hadiths that can be trusted are extremely rare. and even those are not completely trustable.
2) Hasan (حسن): these hadiiths, still rare, are good enough to go by, but not quite as clean as a Sahih hadith.
3) Da'if (ضعیف): The Weak ahaadith. and guess what, that's where the majority of Ahaadith fall into.

Anyway, this is not even relevant. It's like, common knowledge that the different sects of Islam (especially in the Shia vs Sunni arguments) don't agree upon the same ahadith. hell, their interpretation of different Ayaat of Quran can be different too. that's why there are so many tafsirs.

Oh, I thought you were talking about something else. Nvm.
Also, yes, there are many different tafaseer. But that's why we have an-Nabi's (SAWS) tafseer.

[Aillyria]

Evidence?

Well, I'm more versed in the Shia version of this, so here goes.
Ahaadith can be sorted into different groups, based on how trustable they are:
1) Sahih (صحیح): This type, Extremely rare, is the type of hadiith that has come from a group of people that can be trusted. the chain of narrators (selsele-al-raviyyun) needs to be completely clean, nobody in the entire chain can be trusted. Considering the fact that the majority of Ahadiith end their chain somewhere during Ali's reign or in an intenegrum in Umavid era, the number of Sahih hadiths that can be trusted are extremely rare. and even those are not completely trustable.
2) Hasan (حسن): these hadiiths, still rare, are good enough to go by, but not quite as clean as a Sahih hadith.
3) Da'if (ضعیف): The Weak ahaadith. and guess what, that's where the majority of Ahaadith fall into.

Anyway, this is not even relevant. It's like, common knowledge that the different sects of Islam (especially in the Shia vs Sunni arguments) don't agree upon the same ahadith. hell, their interpretation of different Ayaat of Quran can be different too. that's why there are so many tafsirs.

This is why I generally ignore the hadiths........

[Pilarcraft]

Well, I'm more versed in the Shia version of this, so here goes.
Ahaadith can be sorted into different groups, based on how trustable they are:
1) Sahih (صحیح): This type, Extremely rare, is the type of hadiith that has come from a group of people that can be trusted. the chain of narrators (selsele-al-raviyyun) needs to be completely clean, nobody in the entire chain can be trusted. Considering the fact that the majority of Ahadiith end their chain somewhere during Ali's reign or in an intenegrum in Umavid era, the number of Sahih hadiths that can be trusted are extremely rare. and even those are not completely trustable.
2) Hasan (حسن): these hadiiths, still rare, are good enough to go by, but not quite as clean as a Sahih hadith.
3) Da'if (ضعیف): The Weak ahaadith. and guess what, that's where the majority of Ahaadith fall into.

Anyway, this is not even relevant. It's like, common knowledge that the different sects of Islam (especially in the Shia vs Sunni arguments) don't agree upon the same ahadith. hell, their interpretation of different Ayaat of Quran can be different too. that's why there are so many tafsirs.

Oh, I thought you were talking about something else. Nvm.
Also, yes, there are many different tafaseer. But that's why we have an-Nabi's tafseer.

just saying, the first Known Tafsir is like, 240 years after the Hijra.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Well, I'm more versed in the Shia version of this, so here goes.
Ahaadith can be sorted into different groups, based on how trustable they are:
1) Sahih (صحیح): This type, Extremely rare, is the type of hadiith that has come from a group of people that can be trusted. the chain of narrators (selsele-al-raviyyun) needs to be completely clean, nobody in the entire chain can be trusted. Considering the fact that the majority of Ahadiith end their chain somewhere during Ali's reign or in an intenegrum in Umavid era, the number of Sahih hadiths that can be trusted are extremely rare. and even those are not completely trustable.
2) Hasan (حسن): these hadiiths, still rare, are good enough to go by, but not quite as clean as a Sahih hadith.
3) Da'if (ضعیف): The Weak ahaadith. and guess what, that's where the majority of Ahaadith fall into.

Anyway, this is not even relevant. It's like, common knowledge that the different sects of Islam (especially in the Shia vs Sunni arguments) don't agree upon the same ahadith. hell, their interpretation of different Ayaat of Quran can be different too. that's why there are so many tafsirs.

This is why I generally ignore the hadiths........

Do you ignore saheeh ones?

[Pilarcraft]

Well, I'm more versed in the Shia version of this, so here goes.
Ahaadith can be sorted into different groups, based on how trustable they are:
1) Sahih (صحیح): This type, Extremely rare, is the type of hadiith that has come from a group of people that can be trusted. the chain of narrators (selsele-al-raviyyun) needs to be completely clean, nobody in the entire chain can be trusted. Considering the fact that the majority of Ahadiith end their chain somewhere during Ali's reign or in an intenegrum in Umavid era, the number of Sahih hadiths that can be trusted are extremely rare. and even those are not completely trustable.
2) Hasan (حسن): these hadiiths, still rare, are good enough to go by, but not quite as clean as a Sahih hadith.
3) Da'if (ضعیف): The Weak ahaadith. and guess what, that's where the majority of Ahaadith fall into.

Anyway, this is not even relevant. It's like, common knowledge that the different sects of Islam (especially in the Shia vs Sunni arguments) don't agree upon the same ahadith. hell, their interpretation of different Ayaat of Quran can be different too. that's why there are so many tafsirs.

This is why I generally ignore the hadiths........

back when I was a muslim, I didn't really trust in Ahadiith. considering the fact the majority of them are made up, and the minority that isn't needs to be checked with other hadiith and the quran itself, and considering the fact I've been a skeptic (aka, a person who needs to check everything to make sure) all my life, the majority of hadiith were not something I could trust

[Aillyria]

This is why I generally ignore the hadiths........

Do you ignore saheeh ones?

No, not at all. But I do research the history and validity of hadiths, if they have a shaky history.....I don't take it as legitimate.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Oh, I thought you were talking about something else. Nvm.
Also, yes, there are many different tafaseer. But that's why we have an-Nabi's tafseer.

just saying, the first Known Tafsir is like, 240 years after the Hijra.

Saheeh al-Bukhari - where the Prophet's (SAWS) tafseer is in - was made 206 yrs after the Prophet Muhammad's (SAWS) passing, not 240.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Do you ignore saheeh ones?

No, not at all. But I do research the history and validity of hadiths, if they have a shaky history.....I don't take it as legitimate.

Point made, me too.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

just saying, the first Known Tafsir is like, 240 years after the Hijra.

Saheeh al-Bukhari - where the Prophet's (SAWS) tafseer is in - was made 206 yrs after the Prophet Muhammad's (SAWS) passing, not 240.

That seems a bit pedantic.

[Shurjah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv5BzovaaHo

This is not made by Sunnis and is clearly Shiia and represents their views

[Kubumba Tribe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv5BzovaaHo

This is not made by Sunnis and is clearly Shiia and represents their views

It's the same song, you didn't show anything different.

[Shurjah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv5BzovaaHo

This is not made by Sunnis and is clearly Shiia and represents their views

It's the same song, you didn't show anything different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwyYYbyN_dE

okay this guy he is in Iraq's Hezbillah he makes music for them here he is yelling Ya Ali

[Aillyria]

This is why I generally ignore the hadiths........

back when I was a muslim, I didn't really trust in Ahadiith. considering the fact the majority of them are made up, and the minority that isn't needs to be checked with other hadiith and the quran itself, and considering the fact I've been a skeptic (aka, a person who needs to check everything to make sure) all my life, the majority of hadiith were not something I could trust

My personality is exactly the same, I'm very skeptical by nature. The overwhelming majority of hadith have no value, and are lies and deceptions.

[Pilarcraft]

just saying, the first Known Tafsir is like, 240 years after the Hijra.

Saheeh al-Bukhari - where the Prophet's (SAWS) tafseer is in - was made 206 yrs after the Prophet Muhammad's (SAWS) passing, not 240.

first off, I was off by a few years, which doesn't even change my point here.
Second, sure. The book that is famous for being a collection of orally transmitted Ahaadith (which, mind you, if you've ever played Telephone, you know how shaky an oral transmission can be, much less a 200 year-old sentence that was never written up until some guy in the early Abassid era), while still the most authentic source for Hadith (at least, according to some) has a Tafsir from the prophet in it.
except that... it doesn't lmao. (Seriously. Sahih Al-Bukhari does not have a tafsir-al-nabi in it.)

[Kubumba Tribe]

It's the same song, you didn't show anything different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwyYYbyN_dE

okay this guy he is in Iraq's Hezbillah he makes music for them here he is yelling Ya Ali

If you want to talk about Shi'a beliefs, why not go to a Shi'a website?