Islamic Discussion Thread ٣

[Pilarcraft]

so... the Arabs were angry that, instead of the "arabian former owner of the land they worked on", "the Jew who owned the land they worked on" had expelled them?
look. this is antisemitism. pure and simple.

Well, I wouldnt like it either to be expelled for no reason. Imagine you living on a piece of land for 40 years and suddenly you had to go - I wouldn't like it either. No matter if I had to go because of a Jew or a Christian.

I don't see how it is blatant antisemitism.

It is, though. it's not like local lords met with armed resistance when they evicted a person from their lands... (historically speaking)

[The Eternal Aulus]

Well, I wouldnt like it either to be expelled for no reason. Imagine you living on a piece of land for 40 years and suddenly you had to go - I wouldn't like it either. No matter if I had to go because of a Jew or a Christian.

I don't see how it is blatant antisemitism.

It is, though. it's not like local lords met with armed resistance when they evicted a person from their lands... (historically speaking)

There's a difference between expelling a person or family and expelling all people who are Arabs, only to replace them with Jews.

[Pilarcraft]

It is, though. it's not like local lords met with armed resistance when they evicted a person from their lands... (historically speaking)

There's a difference between expelling a person or family and expelling all people who are Arabs, only to replace them with Jews.

does it matter? that guy owned the lands. he wanted the people working on them to leave.
it's as simple as that.
even if it wasn't, as the person being evicted, you don't get to complain. because, simply, it's his land. he owns it. he has the sole right to it.

[Northern Davincia]

There's a difference between expelling a person or family and expelling all people who are Arabs, only to replace them with Jews.

does it matter? that guy owned the lands. he wanted the people working on them to leave.
it's as simple as that.
even if it wasn't, as the person being evicted, you don't get to complain. because, simply, it's his land. he owns it. he has the sole right to it.

What kind of anarcho-syndicalist promotes private property?

[Pilarcraft]

does it matter? that guy owned the lands. he wanted the people working on them to leave.
it's as simple as that.
even if it wasn't, as the person being evicted, you don't get to complain. because, simply, it's his land. he owns it. he has the sole right to it.

What kind of anarcho-syndicalist promotes private property?

I don't promote Private Property, I'm arguing that in a nation that already has private property, it is not rational to argue against it only in a few select cases. Either the Local Lords shouldn't have owned the land from the start, or if they did and they sold it, the guy who bought it has rights to it. you can't say "the original lord had rights, but the new guy doesn't".
Unless, of course, you want to abolish property, in which case the original statement I argued against should't have even been uttered.
That said, that 8values is old. I might need to retake it again. I doubt I've changed much but I digress.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Pork is haram because the flesh of swine is forbidden - would artificially grown meat theoretically be free of this restriction? Or genetically modified artificially grown meat? How far from a baseline pig would such meat have to be, if not acceptable as is? How much gene therapy would be needed to have porkless bacon in a religious sense?

We already have porkless bacon: turkey bacon
As for the bacon grown in a lab, if it has no pig in it whatsoever, then I guess it's halal.

I'm sorry, do I reject it? I accept that Israel exists. I am not advocating for its destruction or anything. Simply saying that the UN, when formed, was overwhelmingly biased towards European interests.

Second, Israel shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Accepting something doesn't mean he can't have disdain for it.

I'm sorry, do I reject it? I accept that Israel exists. I am not advocating for its destruction or anything. Simply saying that the UN, when formed, was overwhelmingly biased towards European interests.

To be fair, the dismantlement and dissolution of Israel is the only possible fair way out of the conflict.

Insha-Allah...

One difference, Israel has always been the aggressor.....they're intruders on Palestinian land.

Not if you believe Isa was the messiah. Then Israel is for Jews and Jews only.
If you do not believe Isa was the messiah, fair point.

That's not true at all.

Bro, the ones who forces the Hebrew off of their land were the Romans, not the Arabs. And nowadays, most zionist settlers aren't even Hebrew and as such have no connection to the land whatsoever.

Yeah but muh ebil muslamics

Wit dem ray guns

The zionists have as much right to Palestine as the Celts have to France. Excuse me, I meant to say Gaul.
Let's prepare the Irish-Scottish invasion for the reclamation of their ancestral Gaulic homeland then.

Actually there is a Celtic minority in Britanny.

[Proctopeo]

I'm sorry, do I reject it? I accept that Israel exists. I am not advocating for its destruction or anything. Simply saying that the UN, when formed, was overwhelmingly biased towards European interests.

To be fair, the dismantlement and dissolution of Israel is the only possible fair way out of the conflict.

"fair"

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

I'm sorry, do I reject it? I accept that Israel exists. I am not advocating for its destruction or anything. Simply saying that the UN, when formed, was overwhelmingly biased towards European interests.

To be fair, the dismantlement and dissolution of Israel is the only possible fair way out of the conflict.

Israel isn't going anywhere, mate. It is better to focus on actually possible goals. The only way Israel is going away is with tens of millions of Muslim and Jewish deaths that no one here should want.

[Pilarcraft]

To be fair, the dismantlement and dissolution of Israel is the only possible fair way out of the conflict.

Israel isn't going anywhere, mate. It is better to focus on actually possible goals. The only way Israel is going away is with tens of millions of Muslim and Jewish deaths that no one here should want.

to be honest, as much as I hate Israel (for being an apartheid regime with genocidal tendencies), It's basic fact that letting the Arabs (at least, people like Hamas) take over will be ever worse than Israel is right now.
In my opinion, both states should be scraped, and the people should just form a new government without that genocidal tendency that both the Arabs and The Administration of Israel have.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

Israel isn't going anywhere, mate. It is better to focus on actually possible goals. The only way Israel is going away is with tens of millions of Muslim and Jewish deaths that no one here should want.

to be honest, as much as I hate Israel (for being an apartheid regime with genocidal tendencies), It's basic fact that letting the Arabs (at least, people like Hamas) take over will be ever worse than Israel is right now.

This is what I mean. Not to mention the fact of the Samson Option.

[Proctopeo]

Israel isn't going anywhere, mate. It is better to focus on actually possible goals. The only way Israel is going away is with tens of millions of Muslim and Jewish deaths that no one here should want.

to be honest, as much as I hate Israel (for being an apartheid regime with genocidal tendencies), It's basic fact that letting the Arabs (at least, people like Hamas) take over will be ever worse than Israel is right now.
In my opinion, both states should be scraped, and the people should just form a new government without that genocidal tendency that both the Arabs and The Administration of Israel have.

How so?
I do agree that letting Hamas (and, realistically, any government supported by Israel's enemies) take over would be worse overall for the region. Maybe not "Holocaust 2: Islamic Boogaloo" terrible, but you can bet the Jewish (and likely the Christians, too, since that region has a track record of hating them as well) would be treated very poorly. Leagues worse than Muslims are treated in Israel.

[Taihei Tengoku]

According to international law (the UN) Israel is not a colony, but rather a product of decolonization in accordance with Resolution 181.

It's not a colony of another state, no. But their entire state is a colonial state in itself, with every single piece of land being illegally occupied land. Of course they are hoping to let it drag on for so long until they seem like its natural residents. But they aren't.

Not according to UNGA 181, and not according to Kumbumba Tribe's interpretation of Islamic law

[Taihei Tengoku]

The whole mess would be resolved by simply asserting that which advances Islam is good and that which hinders it is bad and rejecting impartial "rules" altogether, but alas

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

The whole mess would be resolved by simply asserting that which advances Islam is good and that which hinders it is bad and rejecting impartial "rules" altogether, but alas

Elaborate.

[Alsheb]

To be fair, the dismantlement and dissolution of Israel is the only possible fair way out of the conflict.

Israel isn't going anywhere, mate. It is better to focus on actually possible goals. The only way Israel is going away is with tens of millions of Muslim and Jewish deaths that no one here should want.

When I say dismantling Israel, I mean ending the "Jewish state" that it is now, and ending any and all discriminatory measures that promote Jews above everyone else in the country.

Which is basically the ideal as espoused by people like Miko Peled: the creation of one unified state that is not zionist but inclusive.

The two state solution is a fallacy as Palestine is deliberately kept dysfunctional and impoverished. Whereas Israel has an ever increasing Arab and Islamic population within its borders. Like Miko Peled says: the one state solution is already there, but it being stopped by zionism.

An inclusive and non-zionist state would effectively cease to be Israel.

[Taihei Tengoku]

The whole mess would be resolved by simply asserting that which advances Islam is good and that which hinders it is bad and rejecting impartial "rules" altogether, but alas

Elaborate.

It's all right there. If the Islamic rules for "defensive wars" cut both ways then it's sour grapes for the Palestinians, but clearly it's not because it's not Muslims who are winning.

[Alsheb]

to be honest, as much as I hate Israel (for being an apartheid regime with genocidal tendencies), It's basic fact that letting the Arabs (at least, people like Hamas) take over will be ever worse than Israel is right now.
In my opinion, both states should be scraped, and the people should just form a new government without that genocidal tendency that both the Arabs and The Administration of Israel have.

How so?
I do agree that letting Hamas (and, realistically, any government supported by Israel's enemies) take over would be worse overall for the region. Maybe not "Holocaust 2: Islamic Boogaloo" terrible, but you can bet the Jewish (and likely the Christians, too, since that region has a track record of hating them as well) would be treated very poorly. Leagues worse than Muslims are treated in Israel.

The idea that Christians would fall victim to "muh ebil muslamics" is absolutely stupid, considering the high percentage of Palestinian Christians there are.

Most of Western Christianity may have betrayed their brethren in Palestine, but they are still there.

[Proctopeo]

How so?
I do agree that letting Hamas (and, realistically, any government supported by Israel's enemies) take over would be worse overall for the region. Maybe not "Holocaust 2: Islamic Boogaloo" terrible, but you can bet the Jewish (and likely the Christians, too, since that region has a track record of hating them as well) would be treated very poorly. Leagues worse than Muslims are treated in Israel.

The idea that Christians would fall victim to "muh ebil muslamics" is absolutely stupid, considering the high percentage of Palestinian Christians there are.

Most of Western Christianity may have betrayed their brethren in Palestine, but they are still there.

You're not going to contest that such a situation would be terrible for the Jewish? Only my point about Christians?

[Alsheb]

The idea that Christians would fall victim to "muh ebil muslamics" is absolutely stupid, considering the high percentage of Palestinian Christians there are.

Most of Western Christianity may have betrayed their brethren in Palestine, but they are still there.

You're not going to contest that such a situation would be terrible for the Jewish? Only my point about Christians?

The position of the PLO and Hezbollah is quite clear on that. Acceptance of their religion within Palestine, but a total end to the special privileged status of the Jewish community.

Anyway, I don't think the majority of Israelis would even want to stay and peacefully integrate into a unified Palestine anyway. The majority of them would likely leave the country.

[Aillyria]

You're not going to contest that such a situation would be terrible for the Jewish? Only my point about Christians?

The position of the PLO and Hezbollah is quite clear on that. Acceptance of their religion within Palestine, but a total end to the special privileged status of the Jewish community.

Anyway, I don't think the majority of Israelis would even want to stay and peacefully integrate into a unified Palestine anyway. The majority of them would likely leave the country.

I'd hope so,their living on stolen land. Why are people so willing to cozy up to the Jews? The majorty of them aren't even real Jews, but ashenkazi imposters.

[Proctopeo]

You're not going to contest that such a situation would be terrible for the Jewish? Only my point about Christians?

The position of the PLO and Hezbollah is quite clear on that. Acceptance of their religion within Palestine, but a total end to the special privileged status of the Jewish community.

Anyway, I don't think the majority of Israelis would even want to stay and peacefully integrate into a unified Palestine anyway. The majority of them would likely leave the country.

Explain the underlined.
And while most would likely leave, this wouldn't stop the government from taking policies against the Jewish. Maybe not to the extent of pogroms, but dropping from your claimed "special privileged status" to "second-class citizens at best".

The position of the PLO and Hezbollah is quite clear on that. Acceptance of their religion within Palestine, but a total end to the special privileged status of the Jewish community.

Anyway, I don't think the majority of Israelis would even want to stay and peacefully integrate into a unified Palestine anyway. The majority of them would likely leave the country.

I'd hope so,their living on stolen land. Why are people so willing to cozy up to the Jews? The majorty of them aren't even real Jews, but ashenkazi imposters.

That's... pretty antisemitic of you.

[The Eternal Aulus]

Maybe because Israel is a Jewish state?

[Aillyria]

The position of the PLO and Hezbollah is quite clear on that. Acceptance of their religion within Palestine, but a total end to the special privileged status of the Jewish community.

Anyway, I don't think the majority of Israelis would even want to stay and peacefully integrate into a unified Palestine anyway. The majority of them would likely leave the country.

Explain the underlined.
And while most would likely leave, this wouldn't stop the government from taking policies against the Jewish. Maybe not to the extent of pogroms, but dropping from your claimed "special privileged status" to "second-class citizens at best".

I'd hope so,their living on stolen land. Why are people so willing to cozy up to the Jews? The majorty of them aren't even real Jews, but ashenkazi imposters.

That's... pretty antisemitic of you.

How is that antisemitic? It is a fact that the ashkenazis are european, not semitic. They aren't hebrew, they are white people.

[Proctopeo]

Explain the underlined.
And while most would likely leave, this wouldn't stop the government from taking policies against the Jewish. Maybe not to the extent of pogroms, but dropping from your claimed "special privileged status" to "second-class citizens at best".


That's... pretty antisemitic of you.

How is that antisemitic? It is a fact that the ashkenazis are european, not semitic. They aren't hebrew, they are white people.

It's been shown multiple times in this thread that they are genetically distinct from Europeans.

[Aillyria]

How is that antisemitic? It is a fact that the ashkenazis are european, not semitic. They aren't hebrew, they are white people.

It's been shown multiple times in this thread that they are genetically distinct from Europeans.

The majority of their genome is European aka white. Not only that, the only reason Israel exists is because of their zionist European allies. It is a fake nation built on a fake history and fake bloodline. They stole the land with the UN sanctioned BS partition.