Islamic Discussion Thread ٣

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

I'm sorry, do I reject it? I accept that Israel exists. I am not advocating for its destruction or anything. Simply saying that the UN, when formed, was overwhelmingly biased towards European interests.

Second, Israel shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Yes, it shouldn't have existed. The UN vote shouldn't have happened at all. What is your point?

[Taihei Tengoku]

Yes, it shouldn't have existed. The UN vote shouldn't have happened at all. What is your point?

Exactly what you demonstrated--the world wasn't ready for democracy because there weren't enough Muslim presidents.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

Yes, it shouldn't have existed. The UN vote shouldn't have happened at all. What is your point?

Exactly what you demonstrated--the world wasn't ready for democracy because there weren't enough Muslim presidents.

That is twisting my words completely and you know it. I'm saying that the UN at the time was not at all representative of the world's interests, but rather Europe's.

[Taihei Tengoku]

Exactly what you demonstrated--the world wasn't ready for democracy because there weren't enough Muslim presidents.

That is twisting my words completely and you know it. I'm saying that the UN at the time was not at all representative of the world's interests, but rather Europe's.

Ergo illegitimate based on demographics. Either the UN is legitimate all the time or it is legitimate none of the time on one country one vote.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

That is twisting my words completely and you know it. I'm saying that the UN at the time was not at all representative of the world's interests, but rather Europe's.

Ergo illegitimate based on demographics. Either the UN is legitimate all the time or it is legitimate none of the time on one country one vote.

It's not black and white at all. If the UN's composition is not representative of the entire world, it cannot claim to represent the entire world. In 1945, the UN in no way represented the world's population.

[Oil exporting People]

Oh, come on. Find a better link, mate. That is clearly biased. It literally claims that Jews are smarter, due to them being Jewish. Come on, man.

Ashkenazim are indeed high IQ, on average, and this is never been in doubt by any mainstream resources. Even if you disagree with this point, however, that does not deny their non-White status; show me something that says they are.

[Oil exporting People]

Second, Israel shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Agreed, but for all the wrong reasons.

[Aillyria]

Second, Israel shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Agreed, but for all the wrong reasons.

What reasons would those be?

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

Agreed, but for all the wrong reasons.

What reasons would those be?

Oh, God. You done opened up a whole can of worms now, Ailly.

[Taihei Tengoku]

Ergo illegitimate based on demographics. Either the UN is legitimate all the time or it is legitimate none of the time on one country one vote.

It's not black and white at all. If the UN's composition is not representative of the entire world, it cannot claim to represent the entire world. In 1945, the UN in no way represented the world's population.

Then the lack of Tamil Eelam or Azawad or Quebec or Catalonia or Kurdistan would disqualify the UN in 2017. The colonies were legal possessions of their masters because they took possession of them when there was no international law against conquest.

[Alsheb]

It's not black and white at all. If the UN's composition is not representative of the entire world, it cannot claim to represent the entire world. In 1945, the UN in no way represented the world's population.

Then the lack of Tamil Eelam or Azawad or Quebec or Catalonia or Kurdistan would disqualify the UN in 2017. The colonies were legal possessions of their masters because they took possession of them when there was no international law against conquest.

And so because there was no law against colonies back then, that means colonial states like Israel should still be legal now according to you?

[Taihei Tengoku]

Then the lack of Tamil Eelam or Azawad or Quebec or Catalonia or Kurdistan would disqualify the UN in 2017. The colonies were legal possessions of their masters because they took possession of them when there was no international law against conquest.

And so because there was no law against colonies back then, that means colonial states like Israel should still be legal now according to you?

According to international law (the UN) Israel is not a colony, but rather a product of decolonization in accordance with Resolution 181.

[Alsheb]

You reject the results of UNGA 181 (the existence of Israel) based on the process (not enough Muslims voted), and therefore the structure of the UN itself. Sometime between then and now, when the UN condemned Israel, did the UN become legitimate, despite structurally remaining "one state one vote" since its inception. Was the world not ready for democracy in 1947?

I'm sorry, do I reject it? I accept that Israel exists. I am not advocating for its destruction or anything. Simply saying that the UN, when formed, was overwhelmingly biased towards European interests.

To be fair, the dismantlement and dissolution of Israel is the only possible fair way out of the conflict.

[Alsheb]

And so because there was no law against colonies back then, that means colonial states like Israel should still be legal now according to you?

According to international law (the UN) Israel is not a colony, but rather a product of decolonization in accordance with Resolution 181.

It's not a colony of another state, no. But their entire state is a colonial state in itself, with every single piece of land being illegally occupied land. Of course they are hoping to let it drag on for so long until they seem like its natural residents. But they aren't.

[Aillyria]

I'm sorry, do I reject it? I accept that Israel exists. I am not advocating for its destruction or anything. Simply saying that the UN, when formed, was overwhelmingly biased towards European interests.

To be fair, the dismantlement and dissolution of Israel is the only possible fair way out of the conflict.

It's the only correct way, indeed. The zionist state should be gotten rid of, inshallah.

[Bhikkustan]

Yes, it shouldn't have existed. The UN vote shouldn't have happened at all. What is your point?

Exactly what you demonstrated--the world wasn't ready for democracy because there weren't enough Muslim presidents.

So were elections with few blacks able to vote fair as well?

To be fair, the dismantlement and dissolution of Israel is the only possible fair way out of the conflict.

It's the only correct way, indeed. The zionist state should be gotten rid of, inshallah.

The only correct way, but alas not practical at The moment. Palestinian majority rule with constitutional protections for the Israelis to stop abuse is the only realistic solution.

[Aellex]

It's not a colony of another state, no. But their entire state is a colonial state in itself, with every single piece of land being illegally occupied land. Of course they are hoping to let it drag on for so long until they seem like its natural residents. But they aren't.

Arabs and Turks were the actual colonists, tho. Israel merely reconquered lost territory.

[The Alma Mater]

the "sucks to suck" argument also legitimizes everything Israel ever did

One difference, Israel has always been the aggressor.....they're intruders on Palestinian land.

Not if you believe Isa was the messiah. Then Israel is for Jews and Jews only.
If you do not believe Isa was the messiah, fair point.

[Pilarcraft]

It's not a colony of another state, no. But their entire state is a colonial state in itself, with every single piece of land being illegally occupied land. Of course they are hoping to let it drag on for so long until they seem like its natural residents. But they aren't.

Arabs and Turks were the actual colonists, tho. Israel merely reconquered lost territory.

technically, the colonization of Israel has been happening for a longer time than either Ottomans or Abassids.
by the time the arabs got there, there weren't many jews left in Israel.

[Alsheb]

It's not a colony of another state, no. But their entire state is a colonial state in itself, with every single piece of land being illegally occupied land. Of course they are hoping to let it drag on for so long until they seem like its natural residents. But they aren't.

Arabs and Turks were the actual colonists, tho. Israel merely reconquered lost territory.

Bro, the ones who forces the Hebrew off of their land were the Romans, not the Arabs. And nowadays, most zionist settlers aren't even Hebrew and as such have no connection to the land whatsoever.

[Alsheb]

One difference, Israel has always been the aggressor.....they're intruders on Palestinian land.

Not if you believe Isa was the messiah. Then Israel is for Jews and Jews only.
If you do not believe Isa was the messiah, fair point.

We believe Isa was a Prophet of Islam (in the meaning of submission to God), who came to purify Judaism and restore the pure religion of old.
Which is exactly the opposite of what zionists have done to the Jewish religion.

[Bhikkustan]

Arabs and Turks were the actual colonists, tho. Israel merely reconquered lost territory.

Bro, the ones who forces the Hebrew off of their land were the Romans, not the Arabs. And nowadays, most zionist settlers aren't even Hebrew and as such have no connection to the land whatsoever.

Yeah but muh ebil muslamics

[Alsheb]

Arabs and Turks were the actual colonists, tho. Israel merely reconquered lost territory.

technically, the colonization of Israel has been happening for a longer time than either Ottomans or Abassids.
by the time the arabs got there, there weren't many jews left in Israel.

Indeed. If they want to claim land from their ancient enemies, the zionists should try to take Rome.

[The Eternal Aulus]

It's a circlejerk all in all. Everyone wants to be right, I don't care about Israel nor Palestine that much.

I'll marry a cute Palestinian girl who cooks good Arab food, one less Palestinian living in misery eh?

[Bhikkustan]

It's a circlejerk all in all. Everyone wants to be right, I don't care about Israel nor Palestine that much.

I'll marry a cute Palestinian girl who cooks good Arab food, one less Palestinian living in misery eh?

InshaAllah brother