Islamic Discussion Thread ٣

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

Now, come on, Amin. That is a bit far. He signed Executive Order 8802 which forbade the federal government from discriminating in hiring based on their race, color, creed, or national origin.

Did he do so for moral reasons or national reasons?

Probably a mixture of both.

[Germanic Templars]

Oh trust me, I am an American I was quite livid when I learned about that, because basically we could have had another great ally in the Middle East, but that was torn up. Maybe there would not have been Iraq-Iran war, no Contra affair, or have to worry about them with nuclear capabilities. The possibilities.

Iirc the US supported Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war cuz they didn't want an Islamic Republic. That was when Saddam Hussein was gassing ethnic minorities and Shi'a from weapons that may or may not have been gifts from the US.

Aware of that.

Of course, after that war Saddam became a little bitch and attacked Kuwait because he felt he was being cheated on oil prices. Enter Operation: Desert Storm with Desert Shield from August 1990 to Jan 1991 to the actual combat, Operation: Desert Sabre, from Jan 1991 to Feb 1992.

Oh trust me, I am an American I was quite livid when I learned about that, because basically we could have had another great ally in the Middle East, but that was torn up. Maybe there would not have been Iraq-Iran war, no Contra affair, or have to worry about them with nuclear capabilities. The possibilities.

We also probably wouldn't have the Iran-Saudi Arabia rivalry that fuels 90% of the Middle East's violence and tensions.

Can't give a personal opinion on that since I am quite ignorant on the whole specter of that disagreement between the two.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

Can't give a personal opinion on that since I am quite ignorant on the whole specter of that disagreement between the two.

Eh. It's complicated as hell, but my shitty summary of it is: Iran and the KSA are vying for regional hegemony in the Middle East and using the differences between Shia (Iran) and Sunni (the KSA) to garner support and inflame tensions.

[Kubumba Tribe]

[Napkiraly]

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Most civilian casualties have been a result of Opfor groups, not American and coalition allies.

[Thermodolia]

Hey Ike is my favorite

Ike gave into the British pressure and couped Iran because the Brits didn't want to hand over the 16% Iran was entitled to and they managed to convince him that Mohammad Mosaddegh was a dirty commie. It may not matter much to you, but it's a personal vendetta for me that I can't get past

The CIA actually called off the coup. However a rogue agent decided to go ahead anyway

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

Ike gave into the British pressure and couped Iran because the Brits didn't want to hand over the 16% Iran was entitled to and they managed to convince him that Mohammad Mosaddegh was a dirty commie. It may not matter much to you, but it's a personal vendetta for me that I can't get past

The CIA actually called off the coup. However a rogue agent decided to go ahead anyway

O.o you got a source for that?

[Aillyria]

Ike gave into the British pressure and couped Iran because the Brits didn't want to hand over the 16% Iran was entitled to and they managed to convince him that Mohammad Mosaddegh was a dirty commie. It may not matter much to you, but it's a personal vendetta for me that I can't get past

The CIA actually called off the coup. However a rogue agent decided to go ahead anyway

I'm interested in learning more about this.

[Napkiraly]

The CIA actually called off the coup. However a rogue agent decided to go ahead anyway

O.o you got a source for that?

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64-years-later-cia-finally-releases-details-of-iranian-coup-iran-tehran-oil/

[Thermodolia]

The CIA actually called off the coup. However a rogue agent decided to go ahead anyway

O.o you got a source for that?

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64- ... ehran-oil/

[United Muscovite Nations]

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Most civilian casualties have been a result of Opfor groups, not American and coalition allies.

There wouldn't have been such horrendous casualties in Iraq if Saddam Hussein were still in power.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

O.o you got a source for that?

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64- ... ehran-oil/

The coup attempt began on August 15 but was swiftly thwarted. Mossadegh made dozens of arrests. Gen. Fazlollah Zahedi, a top conspirator, went into hiding, and the shah fled the country.

The CIA, believing the coup to have failed, called it off.

“Operation has been tried and failed and we should not participate in any operation against Mossadegh which could be traced back to US,” CIA headquarters wrote to its station chief in Iran in a newly declassified cable sent on Aug. 18, 1953. “Operations against Mossadegh should be discontinued.”

So, they launched the coup, thought they had failed, and then tried to end it as a failure. Not call it off. Different narrative.

[Kubumba Tribe]

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64- ... ehran-oil/

The coup attempt began on August 15 but was swiftly thwarted. Mossadegh made dozens of arrests. Gen. Fazlollah Zahedi, a top conspirator, went into hiding, and the shah fled the country.

The CIA, believing the coup to have failed, called it off.

“Operation has been tried and failed and we should not participate in any operation against Mossadegh which could be traced back to US,” CIA headquarters wrote to its station chief in Iran in a newly declassified cable sent on Aug. 18, 1953. “Operations against Mossadegh should be discontinued.”

So, they launched the coup, thought they had failed, and then tried to end it as a failure. Not call it off. Different narrative.

And it looks like they only said "Let's not do this" as if they got some moral revelation. The US knows what it does and why it does so

[Napkiraly]

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64- ... ehran-oil/

The coup attempt began on August 15 but was swiftly thwarted. Mossadegh made dozens of arrests. Gen. Fazlollah Zahedi, a top conspirator, went into hiding, and the shah fled the country.

The CIA, believing the coup to have failed, called it off.

“Operation has been tried and failed and we should not participate in any operation against Mossadegh which could be traced back to US,” CIA headquarters wrote to its station chief in Iran in a newly declassified cable sent on Aug. 18, 1953. “Operations against Mossadegh should be discontinued.”

So, they launched the coup, thought they had failed, and then tried to end it as a failure. Not call it off. Different narrative.

The conspirators wanted to keep on trying but the CIA had indicated they were going to back out. That is still calling it off.

[Thermodolia]

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64- ... ehran-oil/

The coup attempt began on August 15 but was swiftly thwarted. Mossadegh made dozens of arrests. Gen. Fazlollah Zahedi, a top conspirator, went into hiding, and the shah fled the country.

The CIA, believing the coup to have failed, called it off.

“Operation has been tried and failed and we should not participate in any operation against Mossadegh which could be traced back to US,” CIA headquarters wrote to its station chief in Iran in a newly declassified cable sent on Aug. 18, 1953. “Operations against Mossadegh should be discontinued.”

So, they launched the coup, thought they had failed, and then tried to end it as a failure. Not call it off. Different narrative.

They did however try to call off the coup because it had failed. But that asshole Roosevelt, who's apparently related to FDR assholesism runs in the family I guess, decided otherwise. If he hadn't been in country Iran would be much different

[Napkiraly]

Most civilian casualties have been a result of Opfor groups, not American and coalition allies.

There wouldn't have been such horrendous casualties in Iraq if Saddam Hussein were still in power.

Well I never said the Iraq wasn't a mistake. Ya Saddam, Ya Saddam.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

So, they launched the coup, thought they had failed, and then tried to end it as a failure. Not call it off. Different narrative.

The conspirators wanted to keep on trying but the CIA had indicated they were going to back out. That is still calling it off.

No, it's trying to cover your own arse lol.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Most civilian casualties have been a result of Opfor groups, not American and coalition allies.

There wouldn't have been such horrendous casualties in Iraq if Saddam Hussein were still in power.

I disagree on that. He ethnically cleansed many non-Arabs - especially Kurds - and persecuted Shi'as

[Shikihara]

Whoops, wrong war. Yeah, well Germany was still borderline carpet bombed. Not trying to defend the Nazis, but the Allied powers shouldn't've bombed German cities, and that makes him worse, cuz that means that he also helped cause the Japanese internment camps.

Destroying your enemy's infrastructure is a pretty important part of war. The US went too far in some places such as Korea, but in regards to Germany, it was war. The Axis did the same, because it's a basic principle of war.

[Thermodolia]

The conspirators wanted to keep on trying but the CIA had indicated they were going to back out. That is still calling it off.

No, it's trying to cover your own arse lol.

At least they knew when to call quits, though none of this would have happened if the British compromised

[Kubumba Tribe]

Whoops, wrong war. Yeah, well Germany was still borderline carpet bombed. Not trying to defend the Nazis, but the Allied powers shouldn't've bombed German cities, and that makes him worse, cuz that means that he also helped cause the Japanese internment camps.

Destroying your enemy's infrastructure is a pretty important part of war. The US went too far in some places such as Korea, but in regards to Germany, it was war. The Axis did the same, because it's a basic principle of war.

Bombing civilians is just war? Are civilians fair game now?

[Kubumba Tribe]

No, it's trying to cover your own arse lol.

At least they knew when to call quits, though none of this would have happened if the British compromised

What would happen if the Brits compromised?

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

No, it's trying to cover your own arse lol.

At least they knew when to call quits, though none of this would have happened if the British compromised

Not even compromised. Just given the Iranians what we had initially asked and agreed to. Just the measly 16% and to audit to make sure we are getting it. Is that so much to ask?

[United Muscovite Nations]

There wouldn't have been such horrendous casualties in Iraq if Saddam Hussein were still in power.

Well I never said the Iraq wasn't a mistake. Ya Saddam, Ya Saddam.

May God have mercy on him.

[United Muscovite Nations]

There wouldn't have been such horrendous casualties in Iraq if Saddam Hussein were still in power.

I disagree on that. He ethnically cleansed many non-Arabs - especially Kurds - and persecuted Shi'as

And now that he's gone, the Kurds are ethnically cleansing the Arabs, and the Shiite militias are butchering Sunnis.