Islamic Discussion Thread ٣

[Shikihara]

Trail of Tears and slavery can be equate to those.

At the highest estimate, the Holodomor killed 12 million Ukrainians. The Holocaust claimed up to 17 million people, ranging from Jews to LGBT people to Slavs and Romani. The Trail of Tears killed, at most 6,000 deaths. There is not an equation. You can recognize that a country has done bad things while not saying it's just as bad as genocidal regimes who liked to do things such as stitch twins together or drive children insane through torture.

Tell me more about how other nations didn't practice slavery, especially Muslim countries.

It is funny how a sudden swarm of offended US fanboys have been swarming all over this thread

No one has been swarming this thread, and when you make a ridiculous claim about a country being the most evil institution on the planet on a debate forum, you should expect to have to defend that assertion. Instead all you have managed is to make fallacies and poorly attempt to ridicule people.

Also, I'm not a US fanboy. Just not someone who likes the country I live in to be called worse than Nazi Germany, mainly because I'd have been killed in the latter.

like flies on a turd just because someone said something bad about the US

"Truly, Allah hates the indecent and obscene person."

[Kubumba Tribe]

Trail of Tears and slavery can be equate to those.

At the highest estimate, the Holodomor killed 12 million Ukrainians. The Holocaust claimed up to 17 million people, ranging from Jews to LGBT people to Slavs and Romani. The Trail of Tears killed, at most 6,000 deaths. There is not an equation. You can recognize that a country has done bad things while not saying it's just as bad as genocidal regimes who liked to do things such as stitch twins together or drive children insane through torture.

I didn't make that claim tho

Tell me more about how other nations didn't practice slavery, especially Muslim countries.

Slavery in general or types of slavery?

[Thermodolia]

Read my lips.

I. Don't. Give. A. Fuck. And. Nor. Do. I. Care.

You're saying that you didn't care this whole debate or just this part?

Neither.

And why do you not care?

I don't care what you think is a sin or not. That's what I don't care, I don't give a shit if you think to people loving eachother is a sin. I don't follow your religion or your religious rules and last time I checked they are in the constitution. So your religion can fuck right off for all I'm concerned.

You don't care about getting correct info?

This has nothing to do with information. I already know that you consider love a sin, you don't need to tell me any more about that

[Kubumba Tribe]

I already know that you consider love a sin

#GotProof?

[Albrenia]

Since someone asked me in the other thread about why I'd consider the concept of being a 'dhimmi' as 'unequal', it would only be in the context of it having any legal meaning.

Call me whatever you like, but I do care if suddenly I have to pay a new tax, or not pay an existing tax, or gain/lose rights based on faith alone.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Since someone asked me in the other thread about why I'd consider the concept of being a 'dhimmi' as 'unequal', it would only be in the context of it having any legal meaning.

Call me whatever you like, but I do care if suddenly I have to pay a new tax, or not pay an existing tax, or gain/lose rights based on faith alone.

It's not like jizya is higher or lower than zakah tho, so you wouldn't be losing any rights.

[Albrenia]

Since someone asked me in the other thread about why I'd consider the concept of being a 'dhimmi' as 'unequal', it would only be in the context of it having any legal meaning.

Call me whatever you like, but I do care if suddenly I have to pay a new tax, or not pay an existing tax, or gain/lose rights based on faith alone.

It's not like jizya is higher or lower than zakah tho, so you wouldn't be losing any rights.

So it's the same amount, just a different name?

I don't really care about that then, it's just a different name.

[Kubumba Tribe]

It's not like jizya is higher or lower than zakah tho, so you wouldn't be losing any rights.

So it's the same amount, just a different name?

I don't really care about that then, it's just a different name.

It could be. I don't really know how much jizya is supposed to be, but I think it works the same way as zakah: able-bodied men have to pay it, so do able-bodied women I think (some Muslims say women don't have to), elderly, youth and sick don't have to pay anything.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

It's not like jizya is higher or lower than zakah tho, so you wouldn't be losing any rights.

So it's the same amount, just a different name?

I don't really care about that then, it's just a different name.

Jizya is the tax paid by dhimmi. It was used to pay for their protection and well-being, along with that of Muslims. Women, children, elders, handicapped, the ill, the insane, monks, hermits, slaves, and musta'mins are exempted. Dhimmi are also exempted in exchange for military service. It can be called the counterpart to zakat, the tax Muslims pay, which is used purely for charity. Zakat can be used for both dhimmi and Muslims, too.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

So it's the same amount, just a different name?

I don't really care about that then, it's just a different name.

It could be. I don't really know how much jizya is supposed to be, but I think it works the same way as zakah: able-bodied men have to pay it, so do able-bodied women I think (some Muslims say women don't have to), elderly, youth and sick don't have to pay anything.

Jizya has no set rate in either the Quran or ahadith.

[Kubumba Tribe]

So it's the same amount, just a different name?

I don't really care about that then, it's just a different name.

Jizya is the tax paid by dhimmi. It was used to pay for their protection and well-being, along with that of Muslims. Women, children, elders, handicapped, the ill, the insane, monks, hermits, slaves, and musta'mins are exempted. Dhimmi are also exempted in exchange for military service. It can be called the counterpart to zakat, the tax Muslims pay, which is used purely for charity. Zakat can be used for both dhimmi and Muslims, too.

Yeah, what UIC said

It could be. I don't really know how much jizya is supposed to be, but I think it works the same way as zakah: able-bodied men have to pay it, so do able-bodied women I think (some Muslims say women don't have to), elderly, youth and sick don't have to pay anything.

Jizya has no set rate in either the Quran or ahadith.

Oh ok, jazakallah khair for the info

[Luminesa]

It seems a consistent tendency where you make vague accusations at the US (invading countries, assassinating foreign politicians, done genocide, etc.) without actually listing examples so that they can be put in context and understood. If you mean the treatment of American Indians, then yes, that was awful and almost nobody will dispute that many instances constituted genocide. However, this wasn't uncommon in the colonial period, and there's no reason to believe this makes the US the most evil nation in the world.


Which, it is. Besides being on the internet, where anything can be claimed, every soldier you'll come across has different opinions. My father is a Baptist singer and my mother is an irreligious New Ager. If simply being a soldier granted one direct insight into the truth of the government being ruled by a secret Satanic cabal, I don't think they would keep that a secret.


Which you've consistently failed to prove, ignoring that the US is objectively not the most evil institution on the planet.

Ok, how about this....I will spend tomorrow creating compilation of all the atrocities I can find committed by our beloved United States Government. I'll show you how through I can be. I'm a good sport, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong and will admit it.

And? What will it prove? How much you utterly hate your country? Move then. If all you've got as a response is to simply compile the crimes of the country, rather than being a good citizen and fixing them, then move.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Ok, how about this....I will spend tomorrow creating compilation of all the atrocities I can find committed by our beloved United States Government. I'll show you how through I can be. I'm a good sport, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong and will admit it.

And? What will it prove? How much you utterly hate your country? Move then. If all you've got as a response is to simply compile the crimes of the country, rather than being a good citizen and fixing them, then move.

Bro, citizens can't really do much to the gov except protest, and not all citizens do that. Many citizens don't know the crimes the US did/does. Also, no one here hates the country itself. We hate the gov. And why you tellin her to move? She can live where she wants as long as she's living by Allah's (SWT) standards. And why are you getting so antsy with her showing how bad the US gov is capable of being?

[Aillyria]

Ok, how about this....I will spend tomorrow creating compilation of all the atrocities I can find committed by our beloved United States Government. I'll show you how through I can be. I'm a good sport, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong and will admit it.

And? What will it prove? How much you utterly hate your country? Move then. If all you've got as a response is to simply compile the crimes of the country, rather than being a good citizen and fixing them, then move.

You've gotten the wrong idea. I love my people, it is the government of our nation that I hate and the policies it inacts that are corrupting our culture.

[Bhikkustan]

Ok, how about this....I will spend tomorrow creating compilation of all the atrocities I can find committed by our beloved United States Government. I'll show you how through I can be. I'm a good sport, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong and will admit it.

And? What will it prove? How much you utterly hate your country? Move then. If all you've got as a response is to simply compile the crimes of the country, rather than being a good citizen and fixing them, then move.

Knowledge of the crimes of America would definitely help the nation to make steps.
Allyria, have you read "the America I have seen" by Sayyid Qutb? It deals with much of what you have talked about. I can send you a pdf if you wish, or just post it so everyone here can have a read.

[Kubumba Tribe]

And? What will it prove? How much you utterly hate your country? Move then. If all you've got as a response is to simply compile the crimes of the country, rather than being a good citizen and fixing them, then move.

You've gotten the wrong idea. I love my people, it is the government of our nation that I hate and the policies it inacts that are corrupting our culture.

Yeah, but the US has enacted evil policies since its beginning. And since it's happened that long, our culture is probs corrupted since the very founding of the US.

[Kubumba Tribe]

And? What will it prove? How much you utterly hate your country? Move then. If all you've got as a response is to simply compile the crimes of the country, rather than being a good citizen and fixing them, then move.

Knowledge of the crimes of America would definitely help the nation to make steps.
Allyria, have you read "the America I have seen" by Sayyid Qutb? It deals with much of what you have talked about. I can send you a pdf if you wish, or just post it so everyone here can have a read.

Ooooooo, I want to read!
Wasn't Qutb the dude who made that militant interpretation of Al-Islam, Qutbism?

[Luminesa]

It is funny how a sudden swarm of offended US fanboys have been swarming all over this thread like flies on a turd just because someone said something bad about the US

Okay lads, you've had your fun. Now let us return to having an Islamic discussion forum.

I'M AMERICAN AND PROUD.

[Kubumba Tribe]

It is funny how a sudden swarm of offended US fanboys have been swarming all over this thread like flies on a turd just because someone said something bad about the US

Okay lads, you've had your fun. Now let us return to having an Islamic discussion forum.

I'M AMERICAN AND PROUD.

Of what?

[Kubumba Tribe]

There's another book called "Lies my teacher told me". I wanna read that too, always wanted that book.

[Luminesa]

And? What will it prove? How much you utterly hate your country? Move then. If all you've got as a response is to simply compile the crimes of the country, rather than being a good citizen and fixing them, then move.

Bro, citizens can't really do much to the gov except protest, and not all citizens do that. Many citizens don't know the crimes the US did/does. Also, no one here hates the country itself. We hate the gov. And why you tellin her to move? She can live where she wants as long as she's living by Allah's (SWT) standards. And why are you getting so antsy with her showing how bad the US gov is capable of being?

Because as a much wiser man than I once said:

[Luminesa]

I'M AMERICAN AND PROUD.

Of what?

Of my flipping country for being so awesome. I wake-up every morning to the smell of freedom and I thank God every morning for the place where I live.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Bro, citizens can't really do much to the gov except protest, and not all citizens do that. Many citizens don't know the crimes the US did/does. Also, no one here hates the country itself. We hate the gov. And why you tellin her to move? She can live where she wants as long as she's living by Allah's (SWT) standards. And why are you getting so antsy with her showing how bad the US gov is capable of being?

Because as a much wiser man than I once said:

Who's saying that no one's proposing a conclusion?

[Bhikkustan]

Knowledge of the crimes of America would definitely help the nation to make steps.
Allyria, have you read "the America I have seen" by Sayyid Qutb? It deals with much of what you have talked about. I can send you a pdf if you wish, or just post it so everyone here can have a read.

Ooooooo, I want to read!
Wasn't Qutb the dude who made that militant interpretation of Al-Islam, Qutbism?

Not necessarily militant. He was one of the founders of the Muslim Brotherhood, a peaceful organisation. It is true however that his ideology is one of many inspirations for groups such as al Qaeda, but I do not consider him to be militant.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByIbA5 ... sp=sharing

[Kubumba Tribe]

Of what?

Of my flipping country for being so awesome. I wake-up every morning to the smell of freedom and I thank God every morning for the place where I live.

Smell of freedom?
Dang you're patriotic.
What makes this country awesome?