Islamic Discussion Thread ٣

[Conserative Morality]

So your point is that the New Crusade narratieve is wrong and takes away attention from the real economical and geopolitical imperialist reasons for US warfare? If so, I must agree that you're right.

Well, I wouldn't say imperialist per se, but yeah, overall that's the point of my argument.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Having a fragmented religion sure sucks, doesn't it?

Al-Islam isn't fragmented, Muslims are

Christianity isn't fragmented, Christians are.
Somalia isn't fragmented, Somalis are.
This mirror isn't fragmented, the pieces are.

Islam is fragmented dude. You're not the authority on what is and isn't Islam.

I literally said there is more than one meaning for Jihad.

Terrorism ain't one of them

It is when it's in the name of Islam.

[Aillyria]

Al-Islam isn't fragmented, Muslims are

Christianity isn't fragmented, Christians are.
Somalia isn't fragmented, Somalis are.
This mirror isn't fragmented, the pieces are.

Islam is fragmented dude. You're not the authority on what is and isn't Islam.

Terrorism ain't one of them

It is when it's in the name of Islam.

Being "in the name" of something doesn't mean it's equivalent to being a sanctioned act of that particular faith or ideology. As a muslim these self proclaimed "jihadists" aren't muslims, they're kafir. Likewise as a socialist, Stalinism isn't socialism, it's state capitalism.

[Alsheb]

No, he didn't. Hafez al-Assad likely supported the PKK as a counterweight against Turkish imperialist ambitions in the region. That still bears absolutely no relation to any support to Al Qaeda.

The idea that Syria ever supported Al Qaeda against post-2003 Iraq is laughable. Relations between Iraq and Syria have in fact been excellent ever since the fall of Saddam.

Assad *did*, however, support Islamist terrorists in Iraq who were not Al-Qaeda so it seems more probable that his refusal to cooperate with him is more because Al-Qaeda hates his guts for not being orthodox enough.

Um... Assad is Shia. A bit more than just a difference in orthodoxy...

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

Assad *did*, however, support Islamist terrorists in Iraq who were not Al-Qaeda so it seems more probable that his refusal to cooperate with him is more because Al-Qaeda hates his guts for not being orthodox enough.

Um... Assad is Shia.

Eh... He's Alawite.

[Conserative Morality]

Um... Assad is Shia. A bit more than just a difference in orthodoxy...

Sect disputes are always somewhat confusing for me in terms of intensity, but the principle remains.

[Bhikkustan]

[
You're not the authority on what is and isn't Islam.

And I suppose you, a non Muslim who is highly against Islam, are?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Christianity isn't fragmented, Christians are.
Somalia isn't fragmented, Somalis are.
This mirror isn't fragmented, the pieces are.

Islam is fragmented dude. You're not the authority on what is and isn't Islam.

It is when it's in the name of Islam.

Being "in the name" of something doesn't mean it's equivalent to being a sanctioned act of that particular faith or ideology.

It's definitely enough to include them under that ideology.

As a muslim these self proclaimed "jihadists" aren't muslims, they're kafir. Likewise as a socialist, Stalinism isn't socialism, it's state capitalism.

Both of these statements are false, especially the former. People who undoubtedly believe Muhammad is the prophet of God can't be kafirs.

[
You're not the authority on what is and isn't Islam.

And I suppose you, a non Muslim who is highly against Islam, are?

Never made that claim. I just take it from Muslims that they're Muslim.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Never made that claim. I just take it from Muslims that they're Muslim.

¿De qué estás hablando? Most of the Ummah regards the Muslim hypocrite terrorists as just that: hypocrites or kafireen.

[Bhikkustan]

Never made that claim. I just take it from Muslims that they're Muslim.

¿De qué estás hablando? Most of the Ummah regards the Muslim hypocrite terrorists as just that: hypocrites or kafireen.

Not kafireen. Munafiqeen (or whatever hypocrites is). Kafir at followers of a different religion.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

¿De qué estás hablando? Most of the Ummah regards the Muslim hypocrite terrorists as just that: hypocrites or kafireen.

Not kafireen. Munafiqeen (or whatever hypocrites is). Kafir at followers of a different religion.

That's what I consider them as too.

[Yanitza]

Alot of Muslims in this thread seem to support socialism, why is this?

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

Alot of Muslims in this thread seem to support socialism, why is this?

Islam is compatible with many socialist ideals. Islam revolves around the idea of the Ummah (community). Things are shared in the Ummah through systems like zakat and caring for your neighbor.

[Bhikkustan]

Alot of Muslims in this thread seem to support socialism, why is this?

Islam is compatible with many socialist ideals. Islam revolves around the idea of the Ummah (community). Things are shared in the Ummah through systems like zakat and caring for your neighbor.

Plus Islam has historically been left leaning, the rashidun Caliphate had a UBI etc. Also many Muslims are against America due to historical imperialism, and the struggle of socialism appeals to some.

[Aillyria]

Being "in the name" of something doesn't mean it's equivalent to being a sanctioned act of that particular faith or ideology.

It's definitely enough to include them under that ideology.

As a muslim these self proclaimed "jihadists" aren't muslims, they're kafir. Likewise as a socialist, Stalinism isn't socialism, it's state capitalism.

Both of these statements are false, especially the former. People who undoubtedly believe Muhammad is the prophet of God can't be kafirs.

And I suppose you, a non Muslim who is highly against Islam, are?

Never made that claim. I just take it from Muslims that they're Muslim.

HTF can they be muslim if they don't do anything we're supposed to do? They're just a bunch of idiots killing people. Is that what you think it means to be in our faith?

[Bhikkustan]

It's definitely enough to include them under that ideology.

Both of these statements are false, especially the former. People who undoubtedly believe Muhammad is the prophet of God can't be kafirs.

Never made that claim. I just take it from Muslims that they're Muslim.

HTF can they be muslim if they don't do anything we're supposed to do? They're just a bunch of idiots killing people. Is that what you think it means to be in our faith?

Tbh, apart from the whole killing thing they do practice Islam. You have admitted yourself that you drink and are not a perfect Muslim, can I say that you aren't? The correct word is hypocrites, for they claim to follow the way of the prophet but betray his teachings of mercy and not killing everyone. They are not favoured by Allah either way, but to call them non Muslims is incorrect.

[Aillyria]

HTF can they be muslim if they don't do anything we're supposed to do? They're just a bunch of idiots killing people. Is that what you think it means to be in our faith?

Tbh, apart from the whole killing thing they do practice Islam. You have admitted yourself that you drink and are not a perfect Muslim, can I say that you aren't? The correct word is hypocrites, for they claim to follow the way of the prophet but betray his teachings of mercy and not killing everyone. They are not favoured by Allah either way, but to call them non Muslims is incorrect.

Eh, I loathe the idea of calling them muslims, for their actions are an insult to Allah. And yes, I admit my personal flaws as a muslim openly, for I believe our Lord wills us to share our struggles and be vulnerable to our fellow believers. I strive not to be a hypocrite, I know my weak points, and I work to rid myself of them.

These "jihadists" aren't working on their sins, not being humble, they believe they are flawless and have the right to slaughter anyone else who refuses to accept their deranged cult.

[Shikihara]

Also many Muslims are against America due to historical imperialism,

In contrast to the historical imperialism of Muslim countries?

The US are no angel, but criticizing the US as "imperialist" is rather silly.

[Aillyria]

Also many Muslims are against America due to historical imperialism,

In contrast to the historical imperialism of Muslim countries?

The US are no angel, but criticizing the US as "imperialist" is rather silly.

Saying the US is "no angel" is a colossal understatement. Our government has probably been the most evil institution on Earth since 1776.

[Bhikkustan]

Tbh, apart from the whole killing thing they do practice Islam. You have admitted yourself that you drink and are not a perfect Muslim, can I say that you aren't? The correct word is hypocrites, for they claim to follow the way of the prophet but betray his teachings of mercy and not killing everyone. They are not favoured by Allah either way, but to call them non Muslims is incorrect.

Eh, I loathe the idea of calling them muslims, for their actions are an insult to Allah. And yes, I admit my personal flaws as a muslim openly, for I believe our Lord wills us to share our struggles and be vulnerable to our fellow believers. I strive not to be a hypocrite, I know my weak points, and I work to rid myself of them.

These "jihadists" aren't working on their sins, not being humble, they believe they are flawless and have the right to slaughter anyone else who refuses to accept their deranged cult.

They are deserving of our pity, not hatred. For they have been led astray by powerful ideologues who ahve taught them wrong. While they should have been able to tell that these actions are against al-Islam and the teachings of Mohamed (PBUH), they have not and Allah shall rightly punis them for this. If we can guide them back to the true meaning of Islam then that is better than killing them. Allah has commanded us not to call takfir on other muslims, and we should not transgress against his commands lest we become hypocrites. http://www.islamopediaonline.org/fatwa/ ... unbeliever

P.S. sorry about if that seemed a personal attack, I missed a few words in my argument which made myself seem overtly aggressive.

[Shikihara]

In contrast to the historical imperialism of Muslim countries?

The US are no angel, but criticizing the US as "imperialist" is rather silly.

Saying the US is "no angel" is a colossal understatement. Our government has probably been the most evil institution on Earth since 1776.

More evil than Nazi Germany, which sent people to death camps and murdered the disabled? More evil than Fascist Italy, which committed mass rapes and desecration of mosques in Libya? More evil than Stalinist Russia, where religion was suppressed under a state atheist regime, and people were forcibly interned in insane asylums or put in Siberian labor camps to freeze to death? What about Pinochet's Chile which raped women with dogs or ISIS which has thrown gay people off of buildings?

Your sense of "most evil" is pretty warped.

[Bhikkustan]

Saying the US is "no angel" is a colossal understatement. Our government has probably been the most evil institution on Earth since 1776.

More evil than Nazi Germany, which sent people to death camps and murdered the disabled? More evil than Fascist Italy, which committed mass rapes and desecration of mosques in Libya? More evil than Stalinist Russia, where religion was suppressed under a state atheist regime, and people were forcibly interned in insane asylums or put in Siberian labor camps to freeze to death? What about Pinochet's Chile which raped women with dogs or ISIS which has thrown gay people off of buildings?

Your sense of "most evil" is pretty warped.

Evil over a sustained amount of time, one must remember. Those other ones, whilst they did bad things, lasted a very short amount of time. America has been responsible for huge things throughout.

[Shikihara]

More evil than Nazi Germany, which sent people to death camps and murdered the disabled? More evil than Fascist Italy, which committed mass rapes and desecration of mosques in Libya? More evil than Stalinist Russia, where religion was suppressed under a state atheist regime, and people were forcibly interned in insane asylums or put in Siberian labor camps to freeze to death? What about Pinochet's Chile which raped women with dogs or ISIS which has thrown gay people off of buildings?

Your sense of "most evil" is pretty warped.

Evil over a sustained amount of time, one must remember. Those other ones, whilst they did bad things, lasted a very short amount of time. America has been responsible for huge things throughout.

Such as?

[Conserative Morality]

Such as?

Horror of horrors, we've done things as unforgivable as having our longest lasting treaty of friendship with a Muslim nation, one of our first wars declaring us to have no enmity towards Muslims, defending ourselves against press-ganging, slavery, unrestricted submarine warfare, and surprise attacks, and worst of all, defending invaded nations.

Truly, we are the prince of darkness.

[Bhikkustan]

Evil over a sustained amount of time, one must remember. Those other ones, whilst they did bad things, lasted a very short amount of time. America has been responsible for huge things throughout.

Such as?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... ime_change
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
Pick your poison. And this isn't even complete, there are more