Islamic Discussion Thread ٣

[Jolthig]

What is the overall Muslim view of Buddhism?

and Ramadan Mubarak. Probably gonna fast until eid.

A false religion, of course, but it wasn't always false.

Buddha (a.s.), from the perspective of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, was a prophet who was a reformer who spoke out against the pagan traditions of the Hindu religion and intended to restore the original teachings of prophet Krishna (a.s.).

But over time, his followers corrupted the religion and made Buddha (a.s.) into an atheistic philosopher. And plus, the Buddhist scriptures haven't been written doen until thousands of years after Buddha's demise if I am not mistaken.

[Jolthig]

Hello guys!
I'm not muslim, but I like the islamic culture and traditions!

Welcome!

[Hindia Belanda]

1. What are these commonalities that you find archaic and detrimental to progress?

2. I am a Twelver Shia. There exists within the Imami madhdab a variety of positions on a lot of issues and ijtihad is still used to arrive at these new positions (ironically Iran's version of velayat-e-faqih was devised through this very method, but not all subscribe to it).

3. We had a discussion about Iran's version of Velayat-e-Faqih and my opposition to it several pages ago. The Maraji within and outside Iran don't even have a consensus on this particular doctrine; some Maraji have even opposed it.



4. Yet you still referred to Takfirism as if it's something integral to Islam in general. Usually, it’s only the salafis/wahhabis who freely invoke Takfir on other groups.

5. Literalism isn’t a feature of Twelver Shia Islam when it comes to interpreting the Quran, which is very important since radical Muslims often cherry-pick the Quran and cite verses in the most literal way possible. Maybe the Iranian political establishment is moving towards literalism in regards to their justification for Velayat-e-Faqih, but this isn’t something that’s set in stone within Twelver Shia Islam as a whole. And it sure isn't something that the entire Shia clergy can unanimously agree on.

1- Attitudes towards apostasy, heresy, blasphemy, homosexuality, women's rights, and the theological arguments that create these problematic attitudes.

2- I know, I know that Shia Islam placed far more emphasis on Ijtihad than Sunni Islam has for quite some time. However, I understand Iran's growing influence is making Ijtihad rarer and rarer.

3- Ah, I apologize for not remembering our earlier conversation.

4- Indeed, it is my mistake, I should have been more precise. I know that Shia Islam does not practice takfirism and I know that Shia militias fighting against the IS even refer to them as the Takfiris. In my criticism of Islam in my discussion with the previous poster I overgeneralized Sunni Islamic problems (Takfirism is quite prominent amongst Sunnis, and not just amongst Wahhabis, I have met a shocking number of Muslims from North Africa and the Levant who will refer to the Shia as Kufar) to all of Islam, and I apologize for that generalization.

5- I know as much, but I see the Iranian ideology as being Shia Islam's response to the Muslim Brotherhood and Qutbism. Much like Qutbism and the Muslim Brotherhood (if not the even more sectarian Wahhabis), I see Iran's power growing across the Shia communities of the world, with only few holding on so far, mainly amongst the Alevis of Turkey and the Alewites of Syria. In short, I don't foresee a good future.

I agree with you. The hostile attitudes on these issues that many Muslims espouse are rather disappointing. I would go as far as to say that some of these attitudes aren’t in line with the spirit of the Fourteen Infallibles and their teachings.

Apostasy is a tricky issue. It is the opinion of Shia scholars who do not subscribe to Absolute Velayat-e-Faqih (Iran’s mullahcracy) that hudud cannot be imposed on those who merely change their religion, it can only be imposed when the act is coupled with an open and violent rebellion against a divinely-ordained government (there is none during this Age of Occultation).

The reality is, of course, more complicated since Iran has been aggressively expanding its absolute Velayat-e-Faqih ideology which now threatens any diverging view regarding the issue. Opposing views do exist within Iran as represented by some Maraji who are based in Qom.

As for the attitude towards blasphemy; yes this is something that needs to be sorted out. Getting triggered by someone who blasphemes God, the prophets and the scriptures is one thing, but issuing fatwas and rallying people to kill them? That's just fucked up.

Regarding homosexuality; I agree that most Muslims must change their attitude towards gays. But you can’t really expect Islam (in general) to legalise homosexuality, and by homosexuality I mean the sexual act because that would constitute changing God’s law. Homosexuality isn’t a sin in itself and Islam recognises that some people do have homosexual impulses from birth and have no sexual desire for the opposite sex.

Muslims should take the attitude that the Prophet had towards the effeminates of early Medina, which was to tolerate homosexual people (not the act) and not ostracise them. He even let them enter into women’s quarters by themselves, when cis men wouldn’t have been allowed to do so. You know, hate the sin but befriend the sinner and all that. They were never prosecuted during the Prophet’s time, it was only after his death that mass castrations were imposed on these people by the Caliphate which is disturbing.

Regarding heresy (and, If by heresy you mean Bidah), the attitude does vary amongst the schools of Islam. From the point of view of the Jafari school, any heresy which is good and doesn’t contradict divine revelation is permissible. I don’t see anything wrong with this attitude. If what you mean by heresy is the attitude of Muslims towards people who have heretical beliefs within Islam, who are often accused of being no longer Muslims, that is wrong. But then again Takfirism isn’t a Twelver practice, so it’s not a commonality as you suggested.

I do admit that Iran's growing influence on Shia communities worldwide is pretty worrying indeed, but the resistance exists and it's thriving. I am still optimistic about the future – as long as the opposition exists amongst the Maraji and Shias, there is still hope.

[Bhikkustan]

What is the overall Muslim view of Buddhism?

and Ramadan Mubarak. Probably gonna fast until eid.

A false religion, of course, but it wasn't always false.

Buddha (a.s.), from the perspective of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, was a prophet who was a reformer who spoke out against the pagan traditions of the Hindu religion and intended to restore the original teachings of prophet Krishna (a.s.).

But over time, his followers corrupted the religion and made Buddha (a.s.) into an atheistic philosopher. And plus, the Buddhist scriptures haven't been written doen until thousands of years after Buddha's demise if I am not mistaken.

An interesting view. However, the Krishna thing is a bit interesting. Also, Buddhism is not necessarily atheistic. I am agnostic atm, but more on the side of belief in god.

yes, it was orally transmitted for a long time.

[Menassa]

A very late Ramadan Kareem friends!

[El-Amin Caliphate]

A very late Ramadan Kareem friends!

Ramadan Mubarak to you too

[Bhikkustan]

Very interesting Hanafi perspective on Homosexuality
https://asharisassemble.com/2014/10/27/ ... -in-islam/

[Mongeley]

Very interesting Hanafi perspective on Homosexuality
https://asharisassemble.com/2014/10/27/ ... -in-islam/

Very interesting indeed, despite the negative words on other aspects of sexual liberty.

[Jumhuriyah Hindustan]

Very interesting Hanafi perspective on Homosexuality
https://asharisassemble.com/2014/10/27/ ... -in-islam/

Very interesting indeed, despite the negative words on other aspects of sexual liberty.

>sexual """liberty"""

*sexual promiscuity / immorality

fixed that for you bud

[Mongeley]

Very interesting indeed, despite the negative words on other aspects of sexual liberty.

>sexual """liberty"""

*sexual promiscuity / immorality

fixed that for you bud

Any communist should see the importance of moral relativism, religious beliefs notwithstanding.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

>sexual """liberty"""

*sexual promiscuity / immorality

fixed that for you bud

Any communist should see the importance of moral relativism, religious beliefs notwithstanding.

As Muslims, we don't give support to sin, or any other unIslamic practice.

[Mongeley]

Any communist should see the importance of moral relativism, religious beliefs notwithstanding.

As Muslims, we don't give support to sin, or any other unIslamic practice.

Which is why I addressed them as a communist, and relativism has nothing to do with 'support' of sin, but rather why I used my choice of words instead of his correction.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

As Muslims, we don't give support to sin, or any other unIslamic practice.

Which is why I addressed them as a communist, and relativism has nothing to do with 'support' of sin, but rather why I used my choice of words instead of his correction.

Still tho, you can't separate him being Muslim and being communist.

I guess this is part of the reason why communism's not entirely compatible to Al-Islam.

[Mexican Aztlan]

I think it is very interesting when Muslims and communists fight each other. Islam tends to be far-right while communism is far-left. Those traits alone are enough to have an ideological conflict between the two. Military conflict can also be expected in certain situations. The Soviet Union would probably send troops to fight Islamists in the Middle East if they were still around. They did fight Islamists in Afghanistan in the decade leading up to their collapse. They lost that war and Osama bin Laden attributed the fall of the Soviet Union to Allah. Islamists went from hating the Communist Bloc to hating America and allies. It would be interesting to see them hate communism again and have communists hate them.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I think it is very interesting when Muslims and communists fight each other. Islam tends to be far-right while communism is far-left. Those traits alone are enough to have an ideological conflict between the two. Military conflict can also be expected in certain situations. The Soviet Union would probably send troops to fight Islamists in the Middle East if they were still around. They did fight Islamists in Afghanistan in the decade leading up to their collapse. They lost that war and Osama bin Laden attributed the fall of the Soviet Union to Allah. Islamists went from hating the Communist Bloc to hating America and allies. It would be interesting to see them hate communism again and have communists hate them.

Far-right? Al-Islam? I don't ascribe political spectrums to Al-Islam, I gues that's why I'm confused. But I do agree with you, Al-Islam would be considered conservative by today's political spectrum. Also, the reason the mujahideen fought against the Soviets was because the Soviets really didn't like religion. Also, the US supported what would become the Taliban/Al-Qaeda.

[Mexican Aztlan]

I think it is very interesting when Muslims and communists fight each other. Islam tends to be far-right while communism is far-left. Those traits alone are enough to have an ideological conflict between the two. Military conflict can also be expected in certain situations. The Soviet Union would probably send troops to fight Islamists in the Middle East if they were still around. They did fight Islamists in Afghanistan in the decade leading up to their collapse. They lost that war and Osama bin Laden attributed the fall of the Soviet Union to Allah. Islamists went from hating the Communist Bloc to hating America and allies. It would be interesting to see them hate communism again and have communists hate them.

Far-right? Al-Islam? I don't ascribe political spectrums to Al-Islam, I gues that's why I'm confused. But I do agree with you, Al-Islam would be considered conservative by today's political spectrum. Also, the reason the mujahideen fought against the Soviets was because the Soviets really didn't like religion. Also, the US supported what would become the Taliban/Al-Qaeda.

I personally consider various Islamic groups and factions to be far-right. These include the Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, ISIS, and the Taliban. The Soviets were materialist atheists fighting against devout Muslims. In the West today, socialists seem to tolerate Islam and the far-right tends to be against the faith. This is especially true in Britain. The Labour Party courts Muslim voters while the British National Party does not want Muslims in Britain.

[Improved werpland]

>sexual """liberty"""

*sexual promiscuity / immorality

fixed that for you bud

Any communist should see the importance of moral relativism, religious beliefs notwithstanding.

More like Marxists. There are plenty of ethical communists and socialists.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Eid Mubarak!!!

[Bhikkustan]

:D Eid Mubarak!!!

its tomorrow for us. Eid Mubarak though!

[Hindia Belanda]

:D Eid Mubarak!!!

:( its tomorrow for us. Eid Mubarak though!

Eid Mubarak!

[Bhikkustan]

:D Eid Mubarak!!!

:( its tomorrow for us. Eid Mubarak though!

Eid Mubarak!

Finally it is Eid! Eid Mubarak brothers

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Eid Mubarak!

Finally it is Eid! Eid Mubarak brothers

Eid mubarak

[Napkiraly]

You don't care that Muslim women are treated badly in a lot of places?

I do, and I said that because I don't really care what non-Muslims think about Al-Islam. I when I said "Muslim Women aren't treated badly" I was talking about in an Islamic sense, not about how people act.

You should though since perception matters. It determines how one is treated.

[Anollasia]

Happy bayram (Eid)!

[Menassa]

I am trying to make my way through the Arabic script. I'm approaching it the way I learned Hebrew when I was 3. First, learn the letters, their pronunciation, and forms etc. Does anyone have any advice or anything like that to help me with my studies?