NATION

PASSWORD

Islamic Discussion Thread ٣

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What Denomination are You?

Sunni
132
28%
Sunni (Sufi)
31
7%
Sunni (Salafi)
26
6%
Ithna'ashari/Twelver Shi'a
30
6%
Other Shi'a
15
3%
Ibadi
13
3%
Ahmadiyya
11
2%
Qur'anist
17
4%
Nondenominational
50
11%
Other
145
31%
 
Total votes : 470

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Free Rhenish States II
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Posts: 404
Founded: Dec 21, 2016
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Postby Free Rhenish States II » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:59 am

Mahdistan wrote:
Free Rhenish States II wrote:This flag existed long before ISIS was created. It is the flag of all Muslims, apart from Alsheb and the Ahmadiyya, maybe, but they are a small minority.

Judgement of men is reserved to God; you may judge actions and offer advice, but you cannot claim to know the relationships between others and God and the prophets.

Alsheb rejects the Sunnah, Ahmadiyya do the same, believe in "prophets after Muhammad (saw)", "serving Britain", the list can go on... The hiwicrats already showed their relationship to the God and the prophets.

I don't care about the opinions of people I don't even think about. Est-ce que tu comprends? Ça m'est égal.
Wer in einem gewissen Alter nicht merkt, dass er hauptsächlich von Idioten umgeben ist, merkt es aus einem gewissen Grunde nicht.
- Kurt Götz
TGs are welcome, I don't bite at all... Or so do I think.
Быть русским значит быть святым, расистом, экстремистом, жидобоем, и мишенью стать для всех исчадий зла.
I am not trillingual, I am sexlingual.
The undisputed Führer of all Germans on Nationstates. Know your leader!
!I believe in the white race!

This is me.

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Alsheb
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Posts: 4415
Founded: Jul 07, 2014
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Postby Alsheb » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:59 am

Free Rhenish States II wrote:
Mahdistan wrote:Judgement of men is reserved to God; you may judge actions and offer advice, but you cannot claim to know the relationships between others and God and the prophets.

Alsheb rejects the Sunnah, Ahmadiyya do the same, believe in "prophets after Muhammad (saw)", "serving Britain", the list can go on... The hiwicrats already showed their relationship to the God and the prophets.


While I'm honoured that you seem to be thinking about me this often, I don't really see how I fit in your anti-Ahmadiyya statements, considering that I'm not Ahmadiyya, nor do I believe in any of those two tenets you mention here.
Anti-Revisionist Marxist-Leninist and Zaydi Muslim Pan-Islamist
About Alsheb: An Islamic people's republic, based upon the principles of Marxism-Leninism and Zaydi Islam
Member of the Committee for Proletarian Morality
Pro: Communism, Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, Axis of Resistance, Syrian Arab Republic, Ansarullah, Hezbollah, Palestine, Iran, Novorossiya, LGBTQ acceptance, feminism, internationalism, socialist patriotism.
Anti: Capitalism, imperialism, racism, fascism, zionism, liberalism, NATO, EU, Wahhabism, revisionism, trotskyism.
Freedom is nothing but a vain phantom when one class of men can starve another with impunity. Equality is nothing but a vain phantom when the rich, through monopoly, exercise the right of life or death over their like.
Jacques Roux

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Free Rhenish States II
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Founded: Dec 21, 2016
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Postby Free Rhenish States II » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:39 am

Alsheb wrote:
Free Rhenish States II wrote:Alsheb rejects the Sunnah, Ahmadiyya do the same, believe in "prophets after Muhammad (saw)", "serving Britain", the list can go on... The hiwicrats already showed their relationship to the God and the prophets.


While I'm honoured that you seem to be thinking about me this often, I don't really see how I fit in your anti-Ahmadiyya statements, considering that I'm not Ahmadiyya, nor do I believe in any of those two tenets you mention here.

Honored by your name becoming a bad word? :lol2: You're a Hiwi, and so are the Ahmadiyya. My statements are not anti-Ahmadiyya, they're just against Hiwicrats (A volunteer to serve the interests of the kaffirs in the democratic system, to the detriment of Muslim interests. A person who believes in the ideology of a vassal Islam) such as yourself. You reject the Sunnah, which leads to abominations, like supporting the LGBT., Putin, "modern values" and whatnot.
Go pray for the dead unbelievers.
Last edited by Free Rhenish States II on Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

I don't care about the opinions of people I don't even think about. Est-ce que tu comprends? Ça m'est égal.
Wer in einem gewissen Alter nicht merkt, dass er hauptsächlich von Idioten umgeben ist, merkt es aus einem gewissen Grunde nicht.
- Kurt Götz
TGs are welcome, I don't bite at all... Or so do I think.
Быть русским значит быть святым, расистом, экстремистом, жидобоем, и мишенью стать для всех исчадий зла.
I am not trillingual, I am sexlingual.
The undisputed Führer of all Germans on Nationstates. Know your leader!
!I believe in the white race!

This is me.

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Alsheb
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Posts: 4415
Founded: Jul 07, 2014
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Postby Alsheb » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:04 am

"Serving the interests of kaffirs in the democratic system". Whoa. That is a heap of bullshit if I ever saw one. You think you got me all figured out, don't you?
Anti-Revisionist Marxist-Leninist and Zaydi Muslim Pan-Islamist
About Alsheb: An Islamic people's republic, based upon the principles of Marxism-Leninism and Zaydi Islam
Member of the Committee for Proletarian Morality
Pro: Communism, Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, Axis of Resistance, Syrian Arab Republic, Ansarullah, Hezbollah, Palestine, Iran, Novorossiya, LGBTQ acceptance, feminism, internationalism, socialist patriotism.
Anti: Capitalism, imperialism, racism, fascism, zionism, liberalism, NATO, EU, Wahhabism, revisionism, trotskyism.
Freedom is nothing but a vain phantom when one class of men can starve another with impunity. Equality is nothing but a vain phantom when the rich, through monopoly, exercise the right of life or death over their like.
Jacques Roux

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Gondolaulus
Diplomat
 
Posts: 626
Founded: Dec 27, 2016
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Postby Gondolaulus » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:25 am

Cut it, this discussion is going nowhere. Neither will it help us towards a good cause.
Also known as Aulus by some.
I am: Iron Pill, Muslim, native European
PRO: Integralism, Perennialism, Esoterism, Sufism.
ANTI: Salafism, Wahhabism, Daesh, interventionism.

Former history/Catholic theology/philosophy student.
RIP Jochy unjustly deleted defending Islamic pride ☪6-2-2017

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Bakery Hill
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11973
Founded: Jul 03, 2016
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Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:32 am

Free Rhenish States II wrote:
Mahdistan wrote:Judgement of men is reserved to God; you may judge actions and offer advice, but you cannot claim to know the relationships between others and God and the prophets.

Alsheb rejects the Sunnah, Ahmadiyya do the same, believe in "prophets after Muhammad (saw)", "serving Britain", the list can go on... The hiwicrats already showed their relationship to the God and the prophets.

Wait aren't you some sort of Salafist white nationalist? Why are you condemning Hilfswilliger?
Founder of the Committee for Proletarian Morality - Winner of Best Communist Award 2018 - Godfather of NSG Syndicalism

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Alsheb
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Posts: 4415
Founded: Jul 07, 2014
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Postby Alsheb » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:36 am

Gondolaulus wrote:Cut it, this discussion is going nowhere. Neither will it help us towards a good cause.

Works for me. I just wish I wouldn't basically have takfir invoked against me in every second post of his.
Last edited by Alsheb on Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Anti-Revisionist Marxist-Leninist and Zaydi Muslim Pan-Islamist
About Alsheb: An Islamic people's republic, based upon the principles of Marxism-Leninism and Zaydi Islam
Member of the Committee for Proletarian Morality
Pro: Communism, Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, Axis of Resistance, Syrian Arab Republic, Ansarullah, Hezbollah, Palestine, Iran, Novorossiya, LGBTQ acceptance, feminism, internationalism, socialist patriotism.
Anti: Capitalism, imperialism, racism, fascism, zionism, liberalism, NATO, EU, Wahhabism, revisionism, trotskyism.
Freedom is nothing but a vain phantom when one class of men can starve another with impunity. Equality is nothing but a vain phantom when the rich, through monopoly, exercise the right of life or death over their like.
Jacques Roux

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Free Rhenish States II
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Posts: 404
Founded: Dec 21, 2016
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Postby Free Rhenish States II » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:18 am

Bakery Hill wrote:
Free Rhenish States II wrote:Alsheb rejects the Sunnah, Ahmadiyya do the same, believe in "prophets after Muhammad (saw)", "serving Britain", the list can go on... The hiwicrats already showed their relationship to the God and the prophets.

Wait aren't you some sort of Salafist white nationalist? Why are you condemning Hilfswilliger?

I don't know, am I? Maybe that's because I'm not a Salafi and a white nationalist to begin with? I never stated either, it's just some very bright guys started to call me that way. Well, I don't condemn them, I let you be afraid, haha. Why do I condemn the Hilfswilligen? Because they were volunteer traitors, of course, and this part of the word (the "crat" part is an allegory on democracy, since the hiwis refuse the Sunnah and the Sharia law, democracy is the only law they can live under) clear allegory on the Muslim hiwis. Suits them well.
Last edited by Free Rhenish States II on Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

I don't care about the opinions of people I don't even think about. Est-ce que tu comprends? Ça m'est égal.
Wer in einem gewissen Alter nicht merkt, dass er hauptsächlich von Idioten umgeben ist, merkt es aus einem gewissen Grunde nicht.
- Kurt Götz
TGs are welcome, I don't bite at all... Or so do I think.
Быть русским значит быть святым, расистом, экстремистом, жидобоем, и мишенью стать для всех исчадий зла.
I am not trillingual, I am sexlingual.
The undisputed Führer of all Germans on Nationstates. Know your leader!
!I believe in the white race!

This is me.

User avatar
Free Rhenish States II
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 404
Founded: Dec 21, 2016
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Postby Free Rhenish States II » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:19 am

Alsheb wrote:
Gondolaulus wrote:Cut it, this discussion is going nowhere. Neither will it help us towards a good cause.

Works for me. I just wish I wouldn't basically have takfir invoked against me in every second post of his.

Did anyone invoke takfir for you, hiwi? I never invoked takfir against you, I personally didn't. I view you as a person of little faith and a traitor to Islam, the fact that you are a communist alone is one of the many proofs of this, Islam has an own political and economical system, and you are a communist, thus, you believe that the religion of Allah is not perfect, but that's it. You're still a Muslim for me.
Last edited by Free Rhenish States II on Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

I don't care about the opinions of people I don't even think about. Est-ce que tu comprends? Ça m'est égal.
Wer in einem gewissen Alter nicht merkt, dass er hauptsächlich von Idioten umgeben ist, merkt es aus einem gewissen Grunde nicht.
- Kurt Götz
TGs are welcome, I don't bite at all... Or so do I think.
Быть русским значит быть святым, расистом, экстремистом, жидобоем, и мишенью стать для всех исчадий зла.
I am not trillingual, I am sexlingual.
The undisputed Führer of all Germans on Nationstates. Know your leader!
!I believe in the white race!

This is me.

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Free Rhenish States II
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Posts: 404
Founded: Dec 21, 2016
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Postby Free Rhenish States II » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:50 am

Alsheb wrote:"Serving the interests of kaffirs in the democratic system". Whoa. That is a heap of bullshit if I ever saw one. You think you got me all figured out, don't you?

Building socialism is nothing other than serving Iblis.

All ideologies of kaffirs are built upon observing the existence. That is, pantheism, platonism, atomism, imperialism and socialism-communism.

Manifestation by the existence, and not by the laws of God is a weapon of Iblis. In other words, it is Shirk. You are adding a non-Islamic philosophy to Islam because you think that Islam itself is not enough, you don't trust it. You do it because there's a cognitive dissonance in your head: a seen existence and an unseen Allah that issues the law. You kind of believe in Allah, but obeying His laws is hard for you because your Iman is low, and Iblis makes you dependable on this world. You adhere to socialism because it is a material tangible propety, something you can see, touch and understand.

Islam is the opposite of this. We strive for Allah that can't be physically touched, nor understood with our mind, and we make conclusions from what is Haram and Halal instead of what is good and bad in this world. And we do not ask whether that is good or bad. We believe because we have the wherewithal to do so, a sufficient Iman.

If you stop believing, then your Iman is low. Treating a mundane thing as more important than the intangible laws of Allah is nothing other than falling in an integral system of values opposite of Islam.
Last edited by Free Rhenish States II on Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

I don't care about the opinions of people I don't even think about. Est-ce que tu comprends? Ça m'est égal.
Wer in einem gewissen Alter nicht merkt, dass er hauptsächlich von Idioten umgeben ist, merkt es aus einem gewissen Grunde nicht.
- Kurt Götz
TGs are welcome, I don't bite at all... Or so do I think.
Быть русским значит быть святым, расистом, экстремистом, жидобоем, и мишенью стать для всех исчадий зла.
I am not trillingual, I am sexlingual.
The undisputed Führer of all Germans on Nationstates. Know your leader!
!I believe in the white race!

This is me.

User avatar
Free Rhenish States II
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Posts: 404
Founded: Dec 21, 2016
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Postby Free Rhenish States II » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:31 am

Jochizyd Republic wrote:
Free Rhenish States II wrote:Why do you care about non-believers more than your brothers in faith?

Wahhabis and their kind are not my brothers in faith. They hold to a perversion of Authentic Islam.

Radical Islam is a cancer. A cancer that's holding the Ummah back from what it was meant to be. An example for humankind. I really wouldn't want to see that in the West.

Wahhabis, ISIS and others are our brothers and are completely related to us. I know there are many bad guys there, outspoken murthads and baathids that never cared about Islam at all. However, there are many Muslims in ISIS. And for that alone you can't generalize them and say they are all non-Muslims and inquire takfir. They are our people and we are at fault why our people are waging an unjust Jihad. The true bastards want you to repudiate every Muslim. They want you to repudiate anyone you don't like. This is how shaitan plants seeds of hypocrisy in us.

Every Muslim, good or bad, is a brother of ours. There are myriads of murtads, hypocrites who do not blow anyone but call themselves Muslims, but celebrate the new year, drink, smoke and do drugs, yet call themselves Muslim and insist on liberalisation/reformation of Muslims and often testify against us in favor of kafirs and the popular popular sentiments, against the background of the fact that ignoring the popular sentiments and ignoring those advocating for a new jahiliya is the point of Monotheism. A murtad that stands for the popular sentiment in the modernization of Islam, insists on "moderate Jihad" and apple-polishes the kaffirs, like many official muftis and kadyrov-like dogs do, does not blow anyone, but is 1000 times more dangerous to Islam than the most radical of takfirists. And we shouldn't inquire takfir against them, but preach to them, for Allah.

If a person sincerely said Shahada at least once, and does not hold on to shirk, they are a Muslim. EVEN IF, audhubillah, he gave in to his temptations, emotions and non-Islamic structures and became a "terrorist".

It's pretty easy for you to inquire takfir against any person who "blows up others" in your comment. Our people blow up others just because YOU and I do not support them and do not help them. I do not justify or blanch over the takfirists and the unjust Jihad, but how many wives, children and mother did our brothers lose before they broke? NEVER inquire takfir and don't try to judge who your brothers are, astagfirullah. If you don't like ISIS, make duaa for them, so that they could become righteous again.

Don't say anything to me, just ask Allah for pardon and ask Him to guide you. I am not telling anything bad to you.

Any state outside the Caliphate is an apparate of kufr and they all should be damned. We aren't going to excuse ourself to anyone. Non-Muslims can think what they want. We'll strive for the righteous dawaat and educate ourself to educate ourselves, so as to explain Islam to those who lead it to a new jahiliya, and we shouldn't care about the politicians' opinion.

We should regulate ourselves, asking only Allah, not the kaffirs.

We must strive for unity and subjectivity, despite our own drawbacks. Everyone nowadays tries to look smart and condemns their BROTHERS in order to play for the kaffir public, acting like: "Look! I'm not like that! These guys are wahhabis and I am not!" Alright, sure, extremities do in fact exist among some groups. Syria proved this perfectly, we lost Aleppo because of our brothers' nafs... But what do they offer as an answer? Don't complain, but help. If you don't like that someone becomes a "radical" and you don't like how he's trying to build a Caliphate, what did you do for your brother? What did you do for the ummah?

The problem has to be solved, and we shouldn't repudiate our brothers at the first possibility, and our internal social problems are our responsibility. Our task is to answer for each other, not to distance ourselves from each other, audhubillah!
Last edited by Free Rhenish States II on Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

I don't care about the opinions of people I don't even think about. Est-ce que tu comprends? Ça m'est égal.
Wer in einem gewissen Alter nicht merkt, dass er hauptsächlich von Idioten umgeben ist, merkt es aus einem gewissen Grunde nicht.
- Kurt Götz
TGs are welcome, I don't bite at all... Or so do I think.
Быть русским значит быть святым, расистом, экстремистом, жидобоем, и мишенью стать для всех исчадий зла.
I am not trillingual, I am sexlingual.
The undisputed Führer of all Germans on Nationstates. Know your leader!
!I believe in the white race!

This is me.

User avatar
Free Rhenish States II
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Posts: 404
Founded: Dec 21, 2016
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Postby Free Rhenish States II » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:49 am

Jochizyd Republic wrote:And I see quite a lot of non beleivers as my brothers, just as Muslims. They submit themselves and are more righteous than the Wahhabis. That's for Damn sure. In Character they're equal to Muslims.

﴿الَّذِينَ آتَيْنَـهُمُ الْكِتَـبَ يَتْلُونَهُ حَقَّ تِلاَوَتِهِ أُوْلَـئِكَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِهِ﴾
(Those to whom We gave the Book recite it as it should be recited, they are the ones who believe therein) (2:121)

وَإِنَّ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَـبِ لَمَن يُؤْمِنُ بِاللَّهِ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِمْ خَـشِعِينَ للَّهِ
And there are, certainly, among the People of the Scripture, those who believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allah) (3:199).

قُلْ ءَامِنُواْ بِهِ أَوْ لاَ تُؤْمِنُواْ إِنَّ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْعِلْمَ مِن قَبْلِهِ إِذَا يُتْلَى عَلَيْهِمْ يَخِرُّونَ لِلاٌّذْقَانِ سُجَّدًا - وَيَقُولُونَ سُبْحَانَ رَبِّنَآ إِن كَانَ وَعْدُ رَبِّنَا لَمَفْعُولاً
(Verily, those who were given knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, fall down on their faces in humble prostration. And they say: "Glory be to our Lord! Truly, the promise of our Lord must be fulfilled.'') (17:107-108)


You can say that these refer to those among the people of the book that converted to Islam or before the conversion to Islam. But that is incorrect. The pious among the People of the Book are definitely righteous, and Brothers of Muslims. The the righteous among them are held as allies of Muslims who hold to the Sunna. Against Kafirun, Hypocrites and Bandits like the "Radicals".

I don't see that as holding them above my actual Muslim Brothers. Just as equals.
And again, nah. Nothings going to convince me that I should be "tolerant" of people that Destroy Tombs of the Awliyallah, kill Muslims that don't agree with their deconstructionist radicalism and basically just act like ignorant brigands.

All of these verses refer to either people of the book that lived before Islam or the future converts. If the Christians and the Jews still followed their scriptures and the Abrahamic traditions, Allah would call them Muslims. It's the simplest logic. There are no righteous people among them, and they can't equal in character to us as they simply don't have their own Quran and Sunnah to have a character equal to ours. They are not our brothers and they will never be, Allah said that Himself.

9:19
Have you made the providing of water for the pilgrim and the maintenance of al-Masjid al-Haram equal to [the deeds of] one who believes in Allah and the Last Day and strives in the cause of Allah ? They are not equal in the sight of Allah . And Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.

9:30
The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?

9:28
O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.

There are no verses that would make an exception for people of the Book, thus they are not and will never be equal to us.

I don't care about the opinions of people I don't even think about. Est-ce que tu comprends? Ça m'est égal.
Wer in einem gewissen Alter nicht merkt, dass er hauptsächlich von Idioten umgeben ist, merkt es aus einem gewissen Grunde nicht.
- Kurt Götz
TGs are welcome, I don't bite at all... Or so do I think.
Быть русским значит быть святым, расистом, экстремистом, жидобоем, и мишенью стать для всех исчадий зла.
I am not trillingual, I am sexlingual.
The undisputed Führer of all Germans on Nationstates. Know your leader!
!I believe in the white race!

This is me.

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Risastorstein
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Posts: 401
Founded: Oct 25, 2014
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Postby Risastorstein » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:58 am

Allah doesn't exist, stop being delusional.

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Risastorstein
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Founded: Oct 25, 2014
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Postby Risastorstein » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:15 am

Free Rhenish States II wrote:
9:28
O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.

There are no verses that would make an exception for people of the Book, thus they are not and will never be equal to us.


This kind of bounty? :lol:
Image

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Alsheb
Senator
 
Posts: 4415
Founded: Jul 07, 2014
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Postby Alsheb » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:49 am

Free Rhenish States II wrote:
Alsheb wrote:"Serving the interests of kaffirs in the democratic system". Whoa. That is a heap of bullshit if I ever saw one. You think you got me all figured out, don't you?

Building socialism is nothing other than serving Iblis.

All ideologies of kaffirs are built upon observing the existence. That is, pantheism, platonism, atomism, imperialism and socialism-communism.

Manifestation by the existence, and not by the laws of God is a weapon of Iblis. In other words, it is Shirk. You are adding a non-Islamic philosophy to Islam because you think that Islam itself is not enough, you don't trust it. You do it because there's a cognitive dissonance in your head: a seen existence and an unseen Allah that issues the law. You kind of believe in Allah, but obeying His laws is hard for you because your Iman is low, and Iblis makes you dependable on this world. You adhere to socialism because it is a material tangible propety, something you can see, touch and understand.

Islam is the opposite of this. We strive for Allah that can't be physically touched, nor understood with our mind, and we make conclusions from what is Haram and Halal instead of what is good and bad in this world. And we do not ask whether that is good or bad. We believe because we have the wherewithal to do so, a sufficient Iman.

If you stop believing, then your Iman is low. Treating a mundane thing as more important than the intangible laws of Allah is nothing other than falling in an integral system of values opposite of Islam.


There is not one Muslim alive who does not adhere to one or the other human ideology. Not one. Even the Saudi monarchy that I am sure you love dearly adheres to the very human and earthly ideals and ideologies of capitalism and absolute monarchy. Even in Islamic theocracies, there will be conservatives, liberals and socialists. It is a basic fact of human society that we will seek further ways to organise human society.

The Qur'an gave us the basic tenets of how to build up a society. And those tenets must be respected and carried out. However the way in which we go about this, and the way in which we carry out the tenets of an Islamic society depend on how we as humans work to achieve these. That is what ideologies are for. And capitalism, which is the continuation of how the Quraysh ruled and governed in the time of Jahiliyyah, is definitely no the way to achieve this.

Socialism, as understood by the many Islamic socialist thinkers that have been and still are, does not replace or supersede Islamic principle. Rather, it is the scientific way in which we strive towards the actual achievement of the just, fair and equitable society that the Qur'an mandates us to construct.
Anti-Revisionist Marxist-Leninist and Zaydi Muslim Pan-Islamist
About Alsheb: An Islamic people's republic, based upon the principles of Marxism-Leninism and Zaydi Islam
Member of the Committee for Proletarian Morality
Pro: Communism, Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, Axis of Resistance, Syrian Arab Republic, Ansarullah, Hezbollah, Palestine, Iran, Novorossiya, LGBTQ acceptance, feminism, internationalism, socialist patriotism.
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Alsheb
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Postby Alsheb » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:49 am

Risastorstein wrote:Allah doesn't exist, stop being delusional.

Yeah, you're not helping at all.
Last edited by Alsheb on Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Anti-Revisionist Marxist-Leninist and Zaydi Muslim Pan-Islamist
About Alsheb: An Islamic people's republic, based upon the principles of Marxism-Leninism and Zaydi Islam
Member of the Committee for Proletarian Morality
Pro: Communism, Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, Axis of Resistance, Syrian Arab Republic, Ansarullah, Hezbollah, Palestine, Iran, Novorossiya, LGBTQ acceptance, feminism, internationalism, socialist patriotism.
Anti: Capitalism, imperialism, racism, fascism, zionism, liberalism, NATO, EU, Wahhabism, revisionism, trotskyism.
Freedom is nothing but a vain phantom when one class of men can starve another with impunity. Equality is nothing but a vain phantom when the rich, through monopoly, exercise the right of life or death over their like.
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United Territories and States
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Postby United Territories and States » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:28 am

Risastorstein wrote:Allah doesn't exist, stop being delusional.



prove it boi
Please be nice and refer this country as "America", or "United States" when in IC.

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Risastorstein
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Postby Risastorstein » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:10 am

What do you want me to say?
Allah has the power to create an entire universe, however, his (or her, or its, I don't know) exclusive hobby is to choose whether some little creatures (aka humans) should rest during their "after-life" in his/her/its Paradise Resort or not. I mean, what a sad life... He/she/it has nothing more important to do such as constructing hospitals in Africa, killing Bachar Al-Assad, or whatever? All that matter to him is to know:
- Do you still have your foreskin? (Men only)
- Have you eaten some pork lately?
- How many partners have you had in your life?
- Have you ever drunk alcohol?
- Do you think that a desert hobo (aka Muhammad) is my prophet?
- and so on...
He/she/it is worse than I am with my Sims.

Even if God was a real thing, how can we know his/her/its will? Does he/she/it have a will at least?
Therefore, how can ayatollahs and imams judge if my behavior is wrong or not? Why can't I live my life as I want, respecting my own rules and my ideals, without any kind of Quran or Bible until my death? If God wants to judge me, I will let him/her/it judge me. God will be the only to know exactly my path and the reasons why I've acted in a certain way. But I won't let people like the sexually frustrated Khomeini or the infamous goat-lover Abu Bakar Al Baghdadi judge me.
Last edited by Risastorstein on Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Risastorstein
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Postby Risastorstein » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:17 am

United Territories and States wrote:
Risastorstein wrote:Allah doesn't exist, stop being delusional.



prove it boi


Steve Buscemi is a part of the universe,
If God exists and if he is the creator of everything,
Then God created Steve Buscemi.

Or no conscious being can imagine something as fugly as Steve Buscemi,
Thus, God is either unconscious or a nonentity.

EDIT: FOR THOSE WHO DIDN'T KNOW WHO STEVE BUSCEMI IS
Image
Last edited by Risastorstein on Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:56 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Mahdistan
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Postby Mahdistan » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:22 pm

Free Rhenish States II wrote:
Mahdistan wrote:Judgement of men is reserved to God; you may judge actions and offer advice, but you cannot claim to know the relationships between others and God and the prophets.

Alsheb rejects the Sunnah, Ahmadiyya do the same, believe in "prophets after Muhammad (saw)", "serving Britain", the list can go on... The hiwicrats already showed their relationship to the God and the prophets.

How can you know he does not follow the Sunnah? Being the practices of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him), this can only be known through authentic Hadith. The Hadith were not written by prophets, but ordinary men, often with scholarly knowledge. They may have been smart, but they had their own opinions, viewpoints, and judgement- I don't suppose you'd entrust a modern college student or professor to correctly record every saying and habit of a prophet, would you? Now, I do not claim this disproves all Hadith written today, but there is plenty of validity in questioning them.

I do not agree with the practices of the Ahmadiyya, but nonetheless, they are a people who believe this was what the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) wanted; intention has more purpose than practice. They are not rejectors of the Quran, even if their view on certain points it contains are unorthodox and unusual, in my eyes- and thus they should not reasonably reject any banner the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) would have intended us to use.
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Mahdistan
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Postby Mahdistan » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:48 pm

Risastorstein wrote:Allah doesn't exist, stop being delusional.

Finally! It's been far too long since we've had one of you people.

Risastorstein wrote:What do you want me to say?
Allah has the power to create an entire universe, however, his (or her, or its, I don't know) exclusive hobby is to choose whether some little creatures (aka humans) should rest during their "after-life" in his/her/its Paradise Resort or not. I mean, what a sad life... He/she/it has nothing more important to do such as constructing hospitals in Africa, killing Bachar Al-Assad, or whatever? All that matter to him is to know:
- Do you still have your foreskin? (Men only)
- Have you eaten some pork lately?
- How many partners have you had in your life?
- Have you ever drunk alcohol?
- Do you think that a desert hobo (aka Muhammad) is my prophet?
- and so on...
He/she/it is worse than I am with my Sims.

Even if God was a real thing, how can we know his/her/its will? Does he/she/it have a will at least?
Therefore, how can ayatollahs and imams judge if my behavior is wrong or not? Why can't I live my life as I want, respecting my own rules and my ideals, without any kind of Quran or Bible until my death? If God wants to judge me, I will let him/her/it judge me. God will be the only to know exactly my path and the reasons why I've acted in a certain way. But I won't let people like the sexually frustrated Khomeini or the infamous goat-lover Abu Bakar Al Baghdadi judge me.

God has given man the opportunity to know what they can do to be obedient and appreciative for their creation, but it is our choice whether or not to do so. Likewise, it is a child's choice to be appreciative to their parents for their creation, and obedient to them to honor their doing so. Nonetheless, if they choose to not do so, they are bad, and righteously should be punished. Disobedience for the sake of disobedience makes for a bad person, period.

God has much more to offer than hospitals, and much greater punishments for tyrannical leaders. It's up to us to choose to make such improvements to the world in our time here, because this is our test, not His. If you're so concerned about it, go to Africa and build one, or go to Syria and kill him. But it sounds more like you just want to complain about it to get others to do it for you.

Now, the Quran contains 'clear and obvious signs' that it is true; there are miracles in that text which appear to those who care to look for them- any Muslim whose read it will tell you that. There si prophecy in the Quran and Hadith which comes true by the day- pollution, skyscrapers, ISIS (arguably, in Hadith), Israel, the Roman Empire's downfall, corrupt states in the Middle-East, and even people with your exact viewpoint, who like to try and stir the pot to upset us, have all been mentioned. It's a bit like reading a book for the second time around, where you still remember the important bits; it's clear to see for us.

Now I ask, why would a parent let their child have all the privileges of one who has been respectful and obedient, when that child chose to make up their own rules, ignore all the rules the parent gave them, and criticized those who did follow all the rules?
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Risastorstein
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Why God doesn't exist or at least why you shouldn't like him

Postby Risastorstein » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:35 am

Mahdistan wrote:God has given man the opportunity to know what they can do to be obedient and appreciative for their creation, but it is our choice whether or not to do so. Likewise, it is a child's choice to be appreciative to their parents for their creation, and obedient to them to honor their doing so. Nonetheless, if they choose to not do so, they are bad, and righteously should be punished. Disobedience for the sake of disobedience makes for a bad person, period.

I've been told that Allah is merciful. He will know how to forgive my rebellious behavior, I have no doubt about it. :)

Mahdistan wrote:God has much more to offer than hospitals, and much greater punishments for tyrannical leaders.

Which things? Virgins in heaven? Flames in hell? Imagine that thanks to scientific improvement, we could be able to live forever, we will never have to fear his "justice".
Moreover, God punishes and rewards his own mistakes and his own achievements! He created us. He is either schizophrenic, suffering from Alzheimer, or very narcissistic.

Mahdistan wrote:It's up to us to choose to make such improvements to the world in our time here, because this is our test, not His. If you're so concerned about it, go to Africa and build one, or go to Syria and kill him. But it sounds more like you just want to complain about it to get others to do it for you.

Right, God left us all alone :(
It's reassuring that you realize it.
But what you say leads us to another paradox. Even if I have the means to build infrastructures in Africa or eliminate a dictator, do I have the right to change his "perfect" creation?

Mahdistan wrote:Now, the Quran contains 'clear and obvious signs' that it is true; there are miracles in that text which appear to those who care to look for them- any Muslim whose read it will tell you that. There si prophecy in the Quran and Hadith which comes true by the day- pollution, skyscrapers, ISIS (arguably, in Hadith), Israel, the Roman Empire's downfall, corrupt states in the Middle-East, and even people with your exact viewpoint, who like to try and stir the pot to upset us, have all been mentioned. It's a bit like reading a book for the second time around, where you still remember the important bits; it's clear to see for us.

That's called the Barnum effect or even the confirmation bias... :? You don't need to be a genius to understand that if you leave humans all alone for 2 seconds, they will mess things up. If I search a little bit, I can find the same allusions in the Game of Thrones saga but that is no reason for worship G.R.R. Martin. Just let me write something imprecise enough and you will have your signs.

Mahdistan wrote:Now I ask, why would a parent let their child have all the privileges of one who has been respectful and obedient, when that child chose to make up their own rules, ignore all the rules the parent gave them, and criticized those who did follow all the rules?

Maybe because as you said earlier, in other words, God left us alone. Then he has no right upon us. In addition, if he was our "daddy", some kind of Divine Social Services would have take us far away from him because of his gross negligence! He left us outside, in the cold, for millions of years, just because Adam and Eve ate a f*cking FRUIT!
Last edited by Risastorstein on Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:42 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Free Rhenish States II
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Postby Free Rhenish States II » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:55 am

Alsheb wrote:
Free Rhenish States II wrote:Building socialism is nothing other than serving Iblis.

All ideologies of kaffirs are built upon observing the existence. That is, pantheism, platonism, atomism, imperialism and socialism-communism.

Manifestation by the existence, and not by the laws of God is a weapon of Iblis. In other words, it is Shirk. You are adding a non-Islamic philosophy to Islam because you think that Islam itself is not enough, you don't trust it. You do it because there's a cognitive dissonance in your head: a seen existence and an unseen Allah that issues the law. You kind of believe in Allah, but obeying His laws is hard for you because your Iman is low, and Iblis makes you dependable on this world. You adhere to socialism because it is a material tangible propety, something you can see, touch and understand.

Islam is the opposite of this. We strive for Allah that can't be physically touched, nor understood with our mind, and we make conclusions from what is Haram and Halal instead of what is good and bad in this world. And we do not ask whether that is good or bad. We believe because we have the wherewithal to do so, a sufficient Iman.

If you stop believing, then your Iman is low. Treating a mundane thing as more important than the intangible laws of Allah is nothing other than falling in an integral system of values opposite of Islam.


There is not one Muslim alive who does not adhere to one or the other human ideology. Not one. Even the Saudi monarchy that I am sure you love dearly adheres to the very human and earthly ideals and ideologies of capitalism and absolute monarchy. Even in Islamic theocracies, there will be conservatives, liberals and socialists. It is a basic fact of human society that we will seek further ways to organise human society.

The Qur'an gave us the basic tenets of how to build up a society. And those tenets must be respected and carried out. However the way in which we go about this, and the way in which we carry out the tenets of an Islamic society depend on how we as humans work to achieve these. That is what ideologies are for. And capitalism, which is the continuation of how the Quraysh ruled and governed in the time of Jahiliyyah, is definitely no the way to achieve this.

Socialism, as understood by the many Islamic socialist thinkers that have been and still are, does not replace or supersede Islamic principle. Rather, it is the scientific way in which we strive towards the actual achievement of the just, fair and equitable society that the Qur'an mandates us to construct.

Examples?

Are you going to say that Muslims have always been cosmopolitan, and a clean Caliphate and Sharia has never existed?

I don't care about the opinions of people I don't even think about. Est-ce que tu comprends? Ça m'est égal.
Wer in einem gewissen Alter nicht merkt, dass er hauptsächlich von Idioten umgeben ist, merkt es aus einem gewissen Grunde nicht.
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Быть русским значит быть святым, расистом, экстремистом, жидобоем, и мишенью стать для всех исчадий зла.
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Free Rhenish States II
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Postby Free Rhenish States II » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:11 am

Mahdistan wrote:
Free Rhenish States II wrote:Alsheb rejects the Sunnah, Ahmadiyya do the same, believe in "prophets after Muhammad (saw)", "serving Britain", the list can go on... The hiwicrats already showed their relationship to the God and the prophets.

How can you know he does not follow the Sunnah? Being the practices of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him), this can only be known through authentic Hadith. The Hadith were not written by prophets, but ordinary men, often with scholarly knowledge. They may have been smart, but they had their own opinions, viewpoints, and judgement- I don't suppose you'd entrust a modern college student or professor to correctly record every saying and habit of a prophet, would you? Now, I do not claim this disproves all Hadith written today, but there is plenty of validity in questioning them.

I do not agree with the practices of the Ahmadiyya, but nonetheless, they are a people who believe this was what the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) wanted; intention has more purpose than practice. They are not rejectors of the Quran, even if their view on certain points it contains are unorthodox and unusual, in my eyes- and thus they should not reasonably reject any banner the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) would have intended us to use.

He said it himself, or have you not been following the previous thread? The Hadiths were not written by God and the prophets, but they passed a vigorous test as only one in 1000 hadiths got approved to begin with. They are much more credible than the Bible, for example. We are able to find out what's authentic and sound easily, thus I have no doubt in the hadiths. The importance of the Sunnah and the groundlessness of those who claim they are false can be described by just one question: How did you learn to pray?
:-))

I don't care about the opinions of people I don't even think about. Est-ce que tu comprends? Ça m'est égal.
Wer in einem gewissen Alter nicht merkt, dass er hauptsächlich von Idioten umgeben ist, merkt es aus einem gewissen Grunde nicht.
- Kurt Götz
TGs are welcome, I don't bite at all... Or so do I think.
Быть русским значит быть святым, расистом, экстремистом, жидобоем, и мишенью стать для всех исчадий зла.
I am not trillingual, I am sexlingual.
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!I believe in the white race!

This is me.

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Gondolaulus
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Postby Gondolaulus » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:00 am

Risastorstein wrote:I've been told that Allah is merciful. He will know how to forgive my rebellious behavior, I have no doubt about it. :)

We're not forcing you to believe otherwise. That said, are you atheist?

Risastorstein wrote:Which things? Virgins in heaven? Flames in hell? Imagine that thanks to scientific improvement, we could be able to live forever, we will never have to fear his "justice".
Moreover, God punishes and rewards his own mistakes and his own achievements! He created us. He is either schizophrenic, suffering from Alzheimer, or very narcissistic.

No. We make our own mistakes and we do our own good actions. There is no use in punishment if free will is not involved.

Risastorstein wrote:Right, God left us all alone :(
It's reassuring that you realize it.
But what you say leads us to another paradox. Even if I have the means to build infrastructures in Africa or eliminate a dictator, do I have the right to change his "perfect" creation?

You can't change his creation. That's the point.
God did not leave us alone. Moreover we got our own hands and heads to solve problems. Sitting in a corner and complaining about problems, which this behavior exactly is, does not help.

Risastorstein wrote:That's called the Barnum effect or even the confirmation bias... :? You don't need to be a genius to understand that if you leave humans all alone for 2 seconds, they will mess things up. If I search a little bit, I can find the same allusions in the Game of Thrones saga but that is no reason for worship G.R.R. Martin. Just let me write something imprecise enough and you will have your signs.

Except that it these things are said explicitly and not in a fictional novel book.

Risastorstein wrote:Maybe because as you said earlier, in other words, God left us alone. Then he has no right upon us. In addition, if he was our "daddy", some kind of Divine Social Services would have take us far away from him because of his gross negligence! He left us outside, in the cold, for millions of years, just because Adam and Eve ate a f*cking FRUIT!

God gave you a head and hands. Use it.
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