*Germany to Greece: "Go sell off some of your country, lol"*

[United Russian State]

Spain, Italy, and France. Like the one whose external debt is 110%+ of their GDP.

And Portugal. Don't think France is faring too badly, though.

I am not sure if they are as bad as Greece, but they sure aren't doing good.

France actually didn't do so bad through the crisis. It did much better than the Anglo-Saxon countries, arguably better than Germany (depends on where you look), much better than southern and eastern europe . . . and much, much better than Russia.

Thier problems are still there, their debt 60%+ of their GDP, and being over a trillion dollars in debt.

[Braaainsss]

Strange this comes up today.

Shouldn't they be suggesting this to the ones who are in far worse shape than Greece, and are EU states?

Well, not really, no. But just which countries do you have in mind?

Spain, Italy, and France. Like the one whose external debt is 110%+ of their GDP.

Spain, Italy, Portugal and Ireland aren't in as bad shape as Greece (yet) . . . and France shouldn't be grouped with Spain and Italy in terms of finances.

Spain has higher negtive GDP, higher infaltion, their debt is higher too. Spain's debt is 455.95 billion.

Italy's debt is higher than their GDP. They will owe more money than they produce.

The absolute size of the debt means nothing. Spain's debt relative to its GDP is smaller than the US' or Britain's. The reason people are worried about it is because its economy is in bad shape and its bonds are not doing well.

[Aggicificicerous]

1. Socialism is a bad system of government.

Norway and Sweden would greatly disagree.

And they may. And I'll point out to Norway that it has tons of oil money and a small, highly educated homogenous population . .. thus their economic system works there. I'll point out to Sweden that it has tons of resources and a small, highly educated homogenous population living in a huge country, and thus their economic system works there.

So in other words, socialism is fine in certain countries.

No. And Nordic countries don't have socialism, they have welfare capitalism. They still have private corporations that compete on the international market, competition, etc etc

If you want to go that route, then no country has ever truly been socialist. Sweden and Norway both have government-controlled and planned economies with high taxes, and high rates of spending of social programs. It's quite similiar, and since socialism itself has grown into a very loose term, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say Sweden and Norway are at least quasi-socialist countris.

[Nobel Hobos]

Oh, right. So you can make a blanket statement like "socialism is bad" and consider it on-topic. But it annoys you when anyone talks about sovereign debt in any other country but Greece, because it doesn't ride your "socialism leads to bankruptcy" hobby-horse.

Socialism is bad, and has been proven so over the last century. But that's neither here nor there. It doesn't annoy me when someone talks about America's economics, it annoys me when it is in a thread about Greece and the European Union. Do you really not understand that?

Well OK. Talk about Greece then, without comparing it to any other country.

I think it is quite legitimate to compare one country with another. I think it is quite illegitimate to talk about one country's economomic problems as being caused by "socialism" ... if you reject comparison with any other country.

You have no reason to call Greece "socialist" except by comparison with other countries. That's your double-standard right there: we're talking about economics (which I admit is a weak suit of mine) and you reject comparisons of economic metrics like debt but reserve the right to make political comparisons between countries.

And socialism is alive and well, and living in your country too.

[Hegstoria]

Am I the only one that thought of Indian Jones. I can just imagine the Germans wanting one island in particular because it has Poseidon's trident on it, or some other BS, and then Indy swoops in and saves the day.

[United Russian State]

The absolute size of the debt means nothing. Spain's debt relative to its GDP is smaller than the US' or Britain's. The reason people are worried about it is because its economy is in bad shape and its bonds are not doing well.

It means nothing? huh?

So are the others. Spain seems to be more of a lost cause than the others.

Their unemplorment is out of control, their real estates are a mess, higher negtive growth, and so on. All worse when compared to Greece. Spain is putting their Euro at major risk too. I don't see why Greece gets most of the blame.

[Kamsaki]

Not at all. Cuba has a small population and a controlled economy....is that a good thing?

I suspect Cuba's poor quality of life has at least something to do with its militarisation and autocratic government. That controlled economy is not a good thing in what's effectively police state is fair enough; then again, I suspect that an absence of planned economic strategy in a police state wouldn't exactly be the bees' knees.

[Braaainsss]

The absolute size of the debt means nothing. Spain's debt relative to its GDP is smaller than the US' or Britain's. The reason people are worried about it is because its economy is in bad shape and its bonds are not doing well.

It means nothing? huh?

So are the others. Spain seems to be more of a lost cause than the others.

Their unemplorment is out of control, their real estates are a mess, higher negtive growth, and so on. All worse when compared to Greece. Spain is putting their Euro at major risk too. I don't see why Greece gets most of the blame.

Because Greece is in immediate danger of not being able to finance its debt. Spain actually has gotten almost as much negative coverage in the financial press, but Greece's problems are more pressing.

[Reavani]

Greece could sell islands to cut debt - German MPs
Thu Mar 4, 2010 3:40am ESTRelated NewsMerkel cool on Greek aid as voters and FDP resist
Fri, Feb 12 2010BERLIN, March 4 (Reuters) - Greece should consider selling some of its islands as one option to reduce debt, two members of the German parliament in Chancellor Angela Merkel's centre-right coalition said.

Josef Schlarmann, a senior member of Merkel's Christian Democrats, and Frank Schaeffler, a finance policy expert in the Free Democrats, were quoted on Thursday as saying that selling islands and other assets could help Greece out of its crisis.

"Those in insolvency have to sell everything they have to pay their creditors," Schlarmann told Bild newspaper. "Greece owns buildings, companies and uninhabited islands, which could all be used for debt redemption."

Greece has launched an austerity programme designed to secure European help to tackle its crippling debt burden. Opinion polls show Germans are overwhelmingly against taxpayers bailing out Greece.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6 ... 1322624:z0

Well, do you think Greece should start selling off public land? Does anyone here have some free money with which they wish to go half and half on a Greek isle with me?

Looks like EU Capitalist Imperialism to me.

America = Not guilty in this Imperialist arena of Europe

[Temeev]

A socialist country goes bankrupt

what a shock!

You are Billions in Debt after Ronald Reagan and his 'capitalist' policies.

It isn't capitalist unless the government gets the #!$% out of everything.

The government's role is to protect rights, not to provide for the needs of the citizens. Roads, education, etc.

That's private industry. Or, at least, it should be.

[The Atlantian islands]

Am I the only one that thought of Indian Jones. I can just imagine the Germans wanting one island in particular because it has Poseidon's trident on it, or some other BS, and then Indy swoops in and saves the day.

Hahaha, lol. I laughed. Beleive me, I live in Germany . . . nobody here wants the government to go buying up Greek Islands . . .


The clues start the tomb of the last crusader . . .

[Natapoc]

Does what is going on here remind anyone else of confessions of an economic hitman?

[BrightonBurg]

A socialist country goes bankrupt

what a shock!

You are Billions in Debt after Ronald Reagan and his 'capitalist' policies.

We are trillions in Debt after Franklin D.Roosvelt & LBJ's & Barry Obama's and their 'Socalist' policies.

^ Better,people who use the Reagan caused this don't have a fucking clue ,the US is in the crisis it's in BEACUSE of spending, Obama's spending dwarfs anything that ANY President has done since the founding of the republic.

This crisis was caused by U.S goverment regulations forcing banks to give bank loans to people who should have NEVER gotten a loan ok? you go back to the old methods,if you don't have 20% to put down on the house? you don't get the god damn loan,ok? NO DEPOSIT NO BLOODY LOAN!!! problem solved, too bad we don't have problem solvers in D.C we have politcal class gangters,we have parasites, the sooner we get back to real Federalism,and stop this central planning BS,the U.S will be a better place

Now I know what you will say,20% is not fair,what about the poor? and I will anser with my famous saying, FAIR?? nothing is fair,life is pain,anyone who says different is selling something,AND I AINT BUYING!

This is my opinon,will not argue over it.

[Reavani]

A socialist country goes bankrupt

what a shock!

You are Billions in Debt after Ronald Reagan and his 'capitalist' policies.

We are trillions in Debt after Franklin D.Roosvelt & LBJ's & Barry Obama's and their 'Socalist' policies.

^ Better,people who use the Reagan caused this don't have a fucking clue ,the US is in the crisis it's in BEACUSE of spending, Obama's spending dwarfs anything that ANY President has done since the founding of the republic.

This crisis was caused by U.S goverment regulations forcing banks to give bank loans to people who should have NEVER gotten a loan ok? you go back to the old methods,if you don't have 20% to put down on the house? you don't get the god damn loan,ok? NO DEPOSIT NO BLOODY LOAN!!! problem solved, too bad we don't have problem solvers in D.C we have politcal class gangters,we have parasites, the sooner we get back to real Federalism,and stop this central planning BS,the U.S will be a better place

Now I know what you will say,20% is not fair,what about the poor? and I will anser with my famous saying, FAIR?? nothing is fair,life is pain,anyone who says different is selling something,AND I AINT BUYING!

This is my opinon,will not argue over it.

I think I fell in love.

[Brutland and Norden]

Blech, Greek Islands are too small for my liking. Should Italy (Europe's longstanding debtor) default, I'll bagsy Sardinia. I hear it's as big but not as mafia-laden as Sicily. For a billion Zimbabwean dollars. As for Spain, which has few islands, I'll take Galicia, 'cause Portugal (my would-be rival) won't have any money to buy it from me.

[NotnotgnimmiJymmiJ]

and don't forget the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Consensus
where the Us treasury department, IMF, and world bank basically agreed to make ever developing country take up Reaganomics or lose their loans.

*SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH*

Some of the most vociferous of today's critics of what they call the Washington Consensus, most prominently Joe Stiglitz... do not object so much to the agenda laid out above as to the neoliberalism that they interpret the term as implying. I of course never intended my term to imply policies like capital account liberalization...monetarism, supply-side economics, or a minimal state (getting the state out of welfare provision and income redistribution), which I think of as the quintessentially neoliberal ideas. If that is how the term is interpreted, then we can all enjoy its wake, although let us at least have the decency to recognize that these ideas have rarely dominated thought in Washington and certainly never commanded a consensus there or anywhere much else except perhaps at meetings of the Mont Pelerin Society. [1]

Your claim falls flat on its face as none of the nations that actually went looking for IMF help (though admittedly I'm only familiar with Latin American countries) actually even came close to implementing the Washington Consensus, yet they didn't lose their loans... The actual requirements for receiving IMF help weren't all that tough. Unsurprisingly, once nations found themselves in the shitter, they generally listened to that set of advice from people who knew what they were talking about that also just happened to be politically expedient. The stuff that wasn't politically expedient, they didn't do. The stuff they were advised not to do, they sometimes continued to do. As for the Consensus itself. Most of the suggestions were only partially implemented, poorly implemented, or not implemented at all.
And much, much better

It would be a mistake, however, to assume that these differences emerged only recently. Early in the decade, Williamson acknowledged that not all of the assertions he included in his original "ten-best" policy recommendations enjoyed the same degree of consensus. According to his assessment at the time, in five of the ten policy prescriptions "consensus has been established". Three of the prescriptions [financial and trade liberalization and deregulation] were still controversial " in a non ideological way" meaning that, in his judgement, the emergence of a consensus was just a matter of time and depended only on finding the technical solution that would reconcile the differences that still existed among the experts. The remaining two, changing public budget priorities and according the same treatment to foreign and domestic firms, were, in Williamson's view, always bound to be controversial due to their inherent political nature9. Six years later Williamson went even further and noted that in some of his assertions about the Consensus he "was a bad reporter of the Washington scene".10

There was a third article even better that I can't seem to find now.

[Hegstoria]

Am I the only one that thought of Indian Jones. I can just imagine the Germans wanting one island in particular because it has Poseidon's trident on it, or some other BS, and then Indy swoops in and saves the day.

Hahaha, lol. I laughed. Beleive me, I live in Germany . . . nobody here wants the government to go buying up Greek Islands . . .


The clues start the tomb of the last crusader . . .

Haha can't you do it just this one time. I also loved that last bit.

[Benzei]

Sell some of their islands??? But those islands are greek. I dont think Leonidas and his spartans would like that

[BrightonBurg]

A socialist country goes bankrupt

what a shock!

You are Billions in Debt after Ronald Reagan and his 'capitalist' policies.

We are trillions in Debt after Franklin D.Roosvelt & LBJ's & Barry Obama's and their 'Socalist' policies.

^ Better,people who use the Reagan caused this don't have a fucking clue ,the US is in the crisis it's in BEACUSE of spending, Obama's spending dwarfs anything that ANY President has done since the founding of the republic.

This crisis was caused by U.S goverment regulations forcing banks to give bank loans to people who should have NEVER gotten a loan ok? you go back to the old methods,if you don't have 20% to put down on the house? you don't get the god damn loan,ok? NO DEPOSIT NO BLOODY LOAN!!! problem solved, too bad we don't have problem solvers in D.C we have politcal class gangters,we have parasites, the sooner we get back to real Federalism,and stop this central planning BS,the U.S will be a better place

Now I know what you will say,20% is not fair,what about the poor? and I will anser with my famous saying, FAIR?? nothing is fair,life is pain,anyone who says different is selling something,AND I AINT BUYING!

This is my opinon,will not argue over it.

I think I fell in love.

I am a old school Federalist/Constituional Conservative with a small pinch of Libertrian,thats how I roll.

[Israslovakahzerbajan]

A socialist country goes bankrupt

what a shock!

You are Billions in Debt afterRonald Reagan Bush's and his 'capitalist' policies.

Fixed Clinton had become paying off Reagan Debt.

It's a shame about Clinton. Whatever happened to him?

He got a blow and all those in favor of "morals" in politics did an Exorcist 360 spin

[Anime Daisuki]

I'll donate $1 to save one island

Yeah, that should be about enough.

[Hegstoria]

Sell some of their islands??? But those islands are greek. I dont think Leonidas and his spartans would like that

Forget him, all he did was defend a gay bar from Persian club owners or something like that .

[Risottia]

I shall bid on Skiathos.

I'd like Ithaca, but I could settle for Corfu.

[Greater Weedania]

Seems like quite a good idea. Does anybody think they'll actually do it?

[Natapoc]

Debt is slavery but governments go into debt without the permission or understanding of their people. The governments thereby pass this slavery onto their people. Germany is making it clear that they expect greece to submit to the norms of obedience to the master.