Trump MAGAthread II: Donald and Mike go to the White House

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Which I'm not arguing against. Just that the solutions being applied to maintain such aren't always the best, nor most well thought out.

That is often the argument of open border advocates. "Why stop it if it doesn't work anyway?" I wrongly identified your position.

I would be interested to bring in the guys who designed the Turkish/Bulgarian border during the Cold War. They had a fairly low tech by highly effective system set up in a built up area.

Yea, open border advocates annoy me because they seem to believe in a naïve perception of international relations in that if we open our borders, other countries would feel obligated to. That's not how it works.

[Lady Scylla]

I've said it several times now.

I'm not familiar with such border, time to research!

For the record, its not the shitty fence they are now putting up. I will see if I can dig some photos I took of another guy's photos. The Turks are really open about their conscription days.

I found this, it was made by the Greeks and was known as the "Surveillance Area".

In Greece, a highly militarised area called the "Επιτηρούμενη Ζώνη" ("Surveillance Area") was created by the Greek Army along the Greek-Bulgarian border, subject to significant security-related regulations and restrictions. Inhabitants within this 25 km wide strip of land were forbidden to drive cars, own land bigger than 60 m2 and had to travel within the area with a special passport issued by Greek military authorities. Additionally, the Greek state used this area to encapsulate and monitor a non-Greek ethnic minority, the Pomaks, a Muslim and Bulgarian-speaking minority which was regarded as hostile to the interests of the Greek state during the Cold War because of its familiarity with their fellow Pomaks living on the other side of the Iron Curtain.

[The East Marches]

For the record, its not the shitty fence they are now putting up. I will see if I can dig some photos I took of another guy's photos. The Turks are really open about their conscription days.

I found this, it was made by the Greeks and was known as the "Surveillance Area".

In Greece, a highly militarised area called the "Επιτηρούμενη Ζώνη" ("Surveillance Area") was created by the Greek Army along the Greek-Bulgarian border, subject to significant security-related regulations and restrictions. Inhabitants within this 25 km wide strip of land were forbidden to drive cars, own land bigger than 60 m2 and had to travel within the area with a special passport issued by Greek military authorities. Additionally, the Greek state used this area to encapsulate and monitor a non-Greek ethnic minority, the Pomaks, a Muslim and Bulgarian-speaking minority which was regarded as hostile to the interests of the Greek state during the Cold War because of its familiarity with their fellow Pomaks living on the other side of the Iron Curtain.

Thats not a bad system tbh. Thats more like it.

[Gauthier]

And then I'm reminded people think like this

How does getting rid of a government program which already costs a lot of money cost more money?

Because treating ailments and diseases are significantly more expensive that preventing them. Also without healthcare more people will go to emergency rooms to get treated and that's real cheap of course. For the patient.

[Patridam]

Because treating ailments and diseases are significantly more expensive that preventing them. Also without healthcare more people will go to emergency rooms to get treated and that's real cheap of course. For the patient.

Ah. I don't know if the figure is correct, but it makes more sense than what I was thinking, as in if the government had to pay 1 the money themselves.

Anyway, please don't lecture me on what people without insurance do. I grew up without health, dental, or optical insurance and still don't have insurance, I know what it's like.

[Southerly Gentleman]

For the record, its not the shitty fence they are now putting up. I will see if I can dig some photos I took of another guy's photos. The Turks are really open about their conscription days.

I found this, it was made by the Greeks and was known as the "Surveillance Area".

In Greece, a highly militarised area called the "Επιτηρούμενη Ζώνη" ("Surveillance Area") was created by the Greek Army along the Greek-Bulgarian border, subject to significant security-related regulations and restrictions. Inhabitants within this 25 km wide strip of land were forbidden to drive cars, own land bigger than 60 m2 and had to travel within the area with a special passport issued by Greek military authorities. Additionally, the Greek state used this area to encapsulate and monitor a non-Greek ethnic minority, the Pomaks, a Muslim and Bulgarian-speaking minority which was regarded as hostile to the interests of the Greek state during the Cold War because of its familiarity with their fellow Pomaks living on the other side of the Iron Curtain.

Very smart on the Greeks' part, but I would go further -- the most effective border is a border where no one is allowed to live.

[Lady Scylla]

And then I'm reminded people think like this

How does getting rid of a government program which already costs a lot of money cost more money?

Well, in that case, it'd be the strain on the consumer. I can't work to be able to afford my healthcare, so I buy TONS less and am having to rely on social security. I don't even have cable, anything and everything I could cut to avoid be homeless, I have. I don't have a working phone either, (can't afford the bill) Insread, I have an app on it that will allow me to SMS people (as if it were a text) and it's got free wifi access on it, so all I have to do is sign into restaurant's wifis etc to make calls or text.

Finally, conditions exist that get more costly the longer they go requiring greater and greater care to manage. I didn't have health insurance from the time I was 15 until I was 21. I had a mole I freely ignored because hospital bills are way too much without insurance. When I got indigent, I found out I had skin cancer that was just starting to spread. Had I waited another 6 months, I'd most likely not be here, or be horribly sick. Now consider my mental health, I have bipolar disorder. It requires medication to treat, it will never go away.

Unmedicated, I'm not as bad as others (since I'm type 2) but, especially in a manic episode, it's not a good thing since impulsiveness practically reigns, and I feel like I'm bullet-proof. And I'll stay up for several days in a row. Depending on how bad Type 1 and Type 2 manic states can get, police might get called to handle the person. Type 1 bipolar often have, or can have delusions -- such as believing they're the Queen of England, or they can fly. Not good, for obvious reasons. And the state and authorities have to deal with that to avoid them hurting themselves. These are easily controlled via medication, but it's hard to get a bipolar person to take them if they're manic, why would they want to? they feel great! But it's also expensive. My meds are a good $3200/mo as an example.

It also just puts a strain on other services.

[Lady Scylla]

I found this, it was made by the Greeks and was known as the "Surveillance Area".

Very smart on the Greeks' part, but I would go further -- the most effective border is a border where no one is allowed to live.

Which, again, is where I bring up the reservation. Their reservation is on one side, with their sacred grounds on the other. They cross that border all the time.

[Crockerland]

And then I'm reminded people think like this

It's hard to tell which is stupider, that post or what it was a response to.

[Lady Scylla]

And then I'm reminded people think like this

It's hard to tell which is stupider, that post or what it was a response to.

You could just say they're both pretty stupid.

Stupidity needn't be a contest.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

How does getting rid of a government program which already costs a lot of money cost more money?

Well, in that case, it'd be the strain on the consumer. I can't work to be able to afford my healthcare, so I buy TONS less and am having to rely on social security. I don't even have cable, anything and everything I could cut to avoid be homeless, I have. I don't have a working phone either, (can't afford the bill) Insread, I have an app on it that will allow me to SMS people (as if it were a text) and it's got free wifi access on it, so all I have to do is sign into restaurant's wifis etc to make calls or text.

Finally, conditions exist that get more costly the longer they go requiring greater and greater care to manage. I didn't have health insurance from the time I was 15 until I was 21. I had a mole I freely ignored because hospital bills are way too much without insurance. When I got indigent, I found out I had skin cancer that was just starting to spread. Had I waited another 6 months, I'd most likely not be here, or be horribly sick. Now consider my mental health, I have bipolar disorder. It requires medication to treat, it will never go away.

Unmedicated, I'm not as bad as others (since I'm type 2) but, especially in a manic episode, it's not a good thing since impulsiveness practically reigns, and I feel like I'm bullet-proof. And I'll stay up for several days in a row. Depending on how bad Type 1 and Type 2 manic states can get, police might get called to handle the person. Type 1 bipolar often have, or can have delusions -- such as believing they're the Queen of England, or they can fly. Not good, for obvious reasons. And the state and authorities have to deal with that to avoid them hurting themselves. These are easily controlled via medication, but it's hard to get a bipolar person to take them if they're manic, why would they want to? they feel great! But it's also expensive. My meds are a good $3200/mo as an example.

It also just puts a strain on other services.

There's also the fact that, added to you and Gauth's statements, that most of us non-insured also tend to self-medicate and brave out the risks of the drugs we're taking because we don't have a primary care physician and our drugs are the best we can afford/have.

For instance, I have psoriasis and I've had other diseases which are not bad, but I've had to learn how to self-medicate, self-monitor, self-nurse, and self-diagnose my own symptoms even though doctors do not recommend it because you can go to WebMD and find that you have cancer 99% of the time.

People having health insurance is good for them because most people are not diligent enough to do extensive research on their symptoms and monitor them, let alone find a good medicament or nurse themselves back to health in an appropriate way.

In that sense, self-medication can cost the healthcare system more if you misdiagnose and mistreat yourself than if you have insurance and have routine checkups.

[Lady Scylla]

Well, in that case, it'd be the strain on the consumer. I can't work to be able to afford my healthcare, so I buy TONS less and am having to rely on social security. I don't even have cable, anything and everything I could cut to avoid be homeless, I have. I don't have a working phone either, (can't afford the bill) Insread, I have an app on it that will allow me to SMS people (as if it were a text) and it's got free wifi access on it, so all I have to do is sign into restaurant's wifis etc to make calls or text.

Finally, conditions exist that get more costly the longer they go requiring greater and greater care to manage. I didn't have health insurance from the time I was 15 until I was 21. I had a mole I freely ignored because hospital bills are way too much without insurance. When I got indigent, I found out I had skin cancer that was just starting to spread. Had I waited another 6 months, I'd most likely not be here, or be horribly sick. Now consider my mental health, I have bipolar disorder. It requires medication to treat, it will never go away.

Unmedicated, I'm not as bad as others (since I'm type 2) but, especially in a manic episode, it's not a good thing since impulsiveness practically reigns, and I feel like I'm bullet-proof. And I'll stay up for several days in a row. Depending on how bad Type 1 and Type 2 manic states can get, police might get called to handle the person. Type 1 bipolar often have, or can have delusions -- such as believing they're the Queen of England, or they can fly. Not good, for obvious reasons. And the state and authorities have to deal with that to avoid them hurting themselves. These are easily controlled via medication, but it's hard to get a bipolar person to take them if they're manic, why would they want to? they feel great! But it's also expensive. My meds are a good $3200/mo as an example.

It also just puts a strain on other services.

There's also the fact that, added to you and Gauth's statements, that most of us non-insured also tend to self-medicate and brave out the risks of the drugs we're taking because we don't have a primary care physician and our drugs are the best we can afford/have.

For instance, I have psoriasis and I've had other diseases which are not bad, but I've had to learn how to self-medicate, self-monitor, self-nurse, and self-diagnose my own symptoms even though doctors do not recommend it because you can go to WebMD and find that you have cancer 99% of the time.

People having health insurance is good for them because most people are not diligent enough to do extensive research on their symptoms and monitor them, let alone find a good medicament or nurse themselves back to health in an appropriate way.

Can confirm, I self-medicated. I abused alcohol, benadryl, norco, codeine, and vicodin up until I started seeing mental health services. I've had a few fun phone calls with poison control in my time.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Can confirm, I self-medicated. I abused alcohol, benadryl, norco, codeine, and vicodin up until I started seeing mental health services. I've had a few fun phone calls with poison control in my time.

I've never taken any hard drugs myself, but I know how to administer some of the common ones that are for diseases that run among my family.

However, I have bought prescription drugs for myself, and I know how much is the limit dosage of common OTC painkillers like ibuprofen to make really bad pain go away.

I mean, the only thing I do go to a nearby clinic for is minor sutures, but I try to keep track of my health so I don't end up going to the ER for a major surgery.

[Patridam]

Can confirm, I self-medicated. I abused alcohol, benadryl, norco, codeine, and vicodin up until I started seeing mental health services. I've had a few fun phone calls with poison control in my time.

I've never taken any hard drugs myself, but I know how to administer some of the common ones that are for diseases that run among my family.

However, I have bought prescription drugs for myself, and I know how much is the limit dosage of common OTC painkillers like ibuprofen to make really bad pain go away.

I mean, the only thing I do go to a nearby clinic for is minor sutures, but I try to keep track of my health so I don't end up going to the ER for a major surgery.

Is there a way I can un-confirm, at least for myself? I've had stress induced seizures and rather than self medicate I just paid out of pocket to see a neurologist, and now pay out of pocket for the generic version of my prevention medication.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I've never taken any hard drugs myself, but I know how to administer some of the common ones that are for diseases that run among my family.

However, I have bought prescription drugs for myself, and I know how much is the limit dosage of common OTC painkillers like ibuprofen to make really bad pain go away.

I mean, the only thing I do go to a nearby clinic for is minor sutures, but I try to keep track of my health so I don't end up going to the ER for a major surgery.

Is there a way I can un-confirm, at least for myself? I've had stress induced seizures and rather than self medicate I just paid out of pocket to see a neurologist, and now pay out of pocket for the generic version of my prevention medication.

Oh, that's why I said "most", which I should probably have said "many", because not everyone does it at any rate. Many people prefer to pay out of pocket for medical assistance if they can.

But if you can't afford to go see a doctor then that's what you gotta learn how to do.

[Patridam]

Oh, that's why I said "most", which I should probably have said "many", because not everyone does it at any rate. Many people prefer to pay out of pocket for medical assistance if they can.

But if you can't afford to go see a doctor then that's what you gotta learn how to do.

It depends on how you define "afford" I suppose. I almost an entire summer job's worth of income on that visit and on my prescription. You can make many things affordable if you make sacrifices elsewhere.

[Lady Scylla]

I've never taken any hard drugs myself, but I know how to administer some of the common ones that are for diseases that run among my family.

However, I have bought prescription drugs for myself, and I know how much is the limit dosage of common OTC painkillers like ibuprofen to make really bad pain go away.

I mean, the only thing I do go to a nearby clinic for is minor sutures, but I try to keep track of my health so I don't end up going to the ER for a major surgery.

Is there a way I can un-confirm, at least for myself? I've had stress induced seizures and rather than self medicate I just paid out of pocket to see a neurologist, and now pay out of pocket for the generic version of my prevention medication.

We make about $4800/mo. Avoid. Doctors. At. All. Cost.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Oh, that's why I said "most", which I should probably have said "many", because not everyone does it at any rate. Many people prefer to pay out of pocket for medical assistance if they can.

But if you can't afford to go see a doctor then that's what you gotta learn how to do.

It depends on how you define "afford" I suppose. I almost an entire summer job's worth of income on that visit and on my prescription. You can make many things affordable if you make sacrifices elsewhere.

See, I wouldn't spend three months of income in a visit.

I'd be willing to spend out a day of my income or two, but not three months.

[Lady Scylla]

Is there a way I can un-confirm, at least for myself? I've had stress induced seizures and rather than self medicate I just paid out of pocket to see a neurologist, and now pay out of pocket for the generic version of my prevention medication.

Oh, that's why I said "most", which I should probably have said "many", because not everyone does it at any rate. Many people prefer to pay out of pocket for medical assistance if they can.

But if you can't afford to go see a doctor then that's what you gotta learn how to do.

My funnest experience this last year was stepping on a toothpick that went through the nerve cluster and join of my big toe. Waited a good two days before I finally went to the doctor. Tried to pull it out, but there was no way in hell.

[Patridam]

We make about $4800/mo. Avoid. Doctors. At. All. Cost.

We? How many overall in the family?

My family of 3 made/makes a little bit short of $20,000 per year. That's less than $1700/mo.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Oh, that's why I said "most", which I should probably have said "many", because not everyone does it at any rate. Many people prefer to pay out of pocket for medical assistance if they can.

But if you can't afford to go see a doctor then that's what you gotta learn how to do.

My funnest experience this last year was stepping on a toothpick that went through the nerve cluster and join of my big toe. Waited a good two days before I finally went to the doctor. Tried to pull it out, but there was no way in hell.

Ouch, and I thought toothpicks didn't make injuries.

Turns out I was wrong.

[Patridam]

It depends on how you define "afford" I suppose. I almost an entire summer job's worth of income on that visit and on my prescription. You can make many things affordable if you make sacrifices elsewhere.

See, I wouldn't spend three months of income in a visit.

I'd be willing to spend out a day of my income or two, but not three months.

It's been paying for my admittedly cheap prescription for some time.

Plus it was a crappy job at less than minimum wage so I made $500 in a summer.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

See, I wouldn't spend three months of income in a visit.

I'd be willing to spend out a day of my income or two, but not three months.

It's been paying for my admittedly cheap prescription for some time.

Plus it was a crappy job at less than minimum wage so I made $500 in a summer.

Ah, I thought it was all at once. This makes more sense, because when I read it at first I was like "the only way I find it that it makes sense is if his doctor was expensive and his medication was expensive all at once to have 3 months of income gone".

500 dollars in a summer is rough though. I'd spend 500 dollars on going to a doctor if I needed it too.

[Farnhamia]

*watches in fascination*

[Patridam]

*watches in fascination*

"Come and get your tickets now for the war of the poors! Find out which of these faceless internet personalities has the worse life and has the least dolla dollas!"