Trump MAGAthread II: Donald and Mike go to the White House

[Uxupox]

Gonna enjoy seeing the Obama photo replacement with Trump's every time I walk in to my office.

His gaze is guiding you to do some shit.

Gotta do my utmost best now!

[The East Marches]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

Ah yes. That would undermine my argument, if it were actually valid. People believe the wall is going to stop immigration, ignoring that most illegals are here on overstayed visas, not crossing the border. Ignoring the fact that it's not too terribly difficult to get around, or even go under the border as has been done for the past 30 years. People think, it'll stop the cartels, ignoring everything stated above and throughout the discussion thereafter over how the cartels routinely thwart those barriers. I'm really sorry to burst your thin bubble, but it's a scam. You're getting scammed. Mexico won't pay for it, Mexico isn't responsible for the US' border security; and, as I pointed out earlier over the native american reservation, I will not condemn them if they take up arms, I hope they do, in fact, because it is their land.

Don't worry, the reservation stuff is so corrupt that I'm sure a bit of money will see it through. They really ought to be dismantled given the exceptionally poor outcomes they produce.

[Hittanryan]

I think it is important to treat everyone fairly. Everyone should have the opportunity to improve their lot in life by pursuing whatever career they wish. People should not be penalized for factors they cannot help, like race, gender, place of birth, parents' income level, or sexual orientation, or for holding peaceful political or religious views. It is vital to continue the fight for equality where it does not exist. Police brutality against unarmed criminals who have already surrendered and unequal pay for equal work are injustices and should be addressed. The opposition to these injustices must be focused, however.

For lack of a better term, "political correctness" can and should be safely jettisoned. Should transgender people be treated worse than straight people? Absolutely not. Should we police language for pronouns? It's a meaningless platitude, screw it. Should rape victims be given the support they need in the criminal justice system? Absolutely. Should all rape victims be automatically believed without evidence while all accused rapists be considered guilty until proven innocent and demonized for life regardless of the verdict? I would argue no.

I don't disagree with you on any of these points, and I think as a matter of principle, I can agree with this "equal treatment" doctrine.

The problem becomes when, say, white leaders from the left begin to tell minorities that we should be thankful because you brought progress to us and gave a considerable amount of time to our cause.

I think one of the lessons this election, as a takeaway, would be not to toot your horn simply because you have spent money and time advocating for a cause if you happen to be of a privileged class and you're trying to help the destitute and when these people disagree with you on something, not to be slighted and rub in their face the fact that you went out of your way to help them when you very well could have said "fuck'em". In other words, if you are going to help, do it because you want to help, not simply because you want to have the credit to say you did. Nobody needs that kind of help.

This is not directed at you, mind, but it is something I've seen pop up among certain circles that irks me.

Expansion: Let me be clear that this is not to say nobody appreciates help. Everyone does. But that, while we appreciate the help, we don't need the help necessarily if people are going to start trying to intimidate and "whip" us in line because they've done something for us.

In the same vein, I'm not going to deny that I've heard racist remarks by extremists claiming to represent Black Lives Matter. Part of this admittedly is due to BLM's total lack of organization or coherent manifesto. Anyone conceivably can claim to be representing BLM, and there's no one at BLM to deny that. This means that people who support BLM's original goal of addressing police brutality feel forced to defend violent assholes who are just using BLM to justify being violent assholes.

A better idea would probably be to just scrap the BLM label and create a new group with concrete goals and an actual organization dedicated to alleviating the hostility that exists between the police and general population.

[Wallenburg]

I don't know about you but i did hear a lot of "Rural > City" talk in the aftermath of the election.
Not saying you personally were involved in this but that's what i heard.

Only after the election? I've been hearing that shit for the last five or six years at least.

[Hurdergaryp]

Ah yes. That would undermine my argument, if it were actually valid. People believe the wall is going to stop immigration, ignoring that most illegals are here on overstayed visas, not crossing the border. Ignoring the fact that it's not too terribly difficult to get around, or even go under the border as has been done for the past 30 years. People think, it'll stop the cartels, ignoring everything stated above and throughout the discussion thereafter over how the cartels routinely thwart those barriers. I'm really sorry to burst your thin bubble, but it's a scam. You're getting scammed. Mexico won't pay for it, Mexico isn't responsible for the US' border security; and, as I pointed out earlier over the native american reservation, I will not condemn them if they take up arms, I hope they do, in fact, because it is their land.

To be fair, we do need border security, and it is one of the points I do agree with people on his side.

However, to believe that just plopping up a wall in the middle of the desert will work without reinforcing our existing security measures is naïve, and in fact, we can reduce a lot more if we had a comprehensive idea of what actual border security might look like instead of 5 second snippets told to us by politicians in order to vote for them when they don't even have a clue as to what the fuck is going on in our borders.

The fact that our border security is resembling more of a patchjob of measures instead of a comprehensive system is an issue.

Maybe hire some former government officials from the Deutsche Demokratische Republik, they actually know something about hermetically sealing borders. Granted, that was just one city divided in two, but still. Just take that idea and blow it up to truly Wagnerian proportions.

[Gauthier]

I don't know about you but i did hear a lot of "Rural > City" talk in the aftermath of the election.
Not saying you personally were involved in this but that's what i heard.

Also, Mexican Drug-Dealing Rapists, Radical Islam (without skateboarding), Dishonest Media...

[Uiiop]

I don't know about you but i did hear a lot of "Rural > City" talk in the aftermath of the election.
Not saying you personally were involved in this but that's what i heard.

Only after the election? I've been hearing that shit for the last five or six years at least.

I don't go to the places where that kind of shit pops up shit pops up.

[Lady Scylla]

Houston's a swamp.

I mean that literally as well, it was built in a swamp. >.>

Oi! In Holland, we have plenty of parties, and we literally raised the damn land from swamps and waters.

Ideally, Trump should visit Flevoland soon for a course on how to really drain a swamp. He's not doing too well.

But Holland's cool.

[Uxupox]

To be fair, we do need border security, and it is one of the points I do agree with people on his side.

However, to believe that just plopping up a wall in the middle of the desert will work without reinforcing our existing security measures is naïve, and in fact, we can reduce a lot more if we had a comprehensive idea of what actual border security might look like instead of 5 second snippets told to us by politicians in order to vote for them when they don't even have a clue as to what the fuck is going on in our borders.

The fact that our border security is resembling more of a patchjob of measures instead of a comprehensive system is an issue.

Maybe hire some former government officials from the Deutsche Demokratische Republik, they actually know something about hermetically sealing borders. Granted, that was just one city divided in two, but still. Just take that idea and blow it up to truly Wagnerian proportions.

The Berlin Wall wasn't completely successful. Thousands of people still managed to cross it (Albeit with deaths as occurring as well).

[Lady Scylla]

Ah yes. That would undermine my argument, if it were actually valid. People believe the wall is going to stop immigration, ignoring that most illegals are here on overstayed visas, not crossing the border. Ignoring the fact that it's not too terribly difficult to get around, or even go under the border as has been done for the past 30 years. People think, it'll stop the cartels, ignoring everything stated above and throughout the discussion thereafter over how the cartels routinely thwart those barriers. I'm really sorry to burst your thin bubble, but it's a scam. You're getting scammed. Mexico won't pay for it, Mexico isn't responsible for the US' border security; and, as I pointed out earlier over the native american reservation, I will not condemn them if they take up arms, I hope they do, in fact, because it is their land.

To be fair, we do need border security, and it is one of the points I do agree with people on his side.

However, to believe that just plopping up a wall in the middle of the desert will work without reinforcing our existing security measures is naïve, and in fact, we can reduce a lot more if we had a comprehensive idea of what actual border security might look like instead of 5 second snippets told to us by politicians in order to vote for them when they don't even have a clue as to what the fuck is going on in our borders.

The fact that our border security is resembling more of a patchjob of measures instead of a comprehensive system is an issue.

I don't disagree. We still need the security. Security on the border right now is already pretty high-tech, they've gone to using sensors and other equipment to detect crossings.

[Lady Scylla]

Maybe hire some former government officials from the Deutsche Demokratische Republik, they actually know something about hermetically sealing borders. Granted, that was just one city divided in two, but still. Just take that idea and blow it up to truly Wagnerian proportions.

The Berlin Wall wasn't completely successful. Thousands of people still managed to cross it (Albeit with deaths as occurring as well).

People cross the Korean DMZ, heralded as the most armed border on the planet, all the time. Where there's a will, there's a way.

[Gauthier]

Maybe hire some former government officials from the Deutsche Demokratische Republik, they actually know something about hermetically sealing borders. Granted, that was just one city divided in two, but still. Just take that idea and blow it up to truly Wagnerian proportions.

The Berlin Wall wasn't completely successful. Thousands of people still managed to cross it (Albeit with deaths as occurring as well).

It'll be amusing to see what innovations smugglers come up with to get through the wall. Assuming that a Mexican company isn't ultimately contracted to Build the Wall and they incorporate some creative backdoors.

[Gauthier]

The Berlin Wall wasn't completely successful. Thousands of people still managed to cross it (Albeit with deaths as occurring as well).

People cross the Korean DMZ, heralded as the most armed border on the planet, all the time. Where there's a will, there's a way.

It would be ironic if illegal crossings spike up to Born in East L.A. levels under Trump's watch.

[Hurdergaryp]

Maybe hire some former government officials from the Deutsche Demokratische Republik, they actually know something about hermetically sealing borders. Granted, that was just one city divided in two, but still. Just take that idea and blow it up to truly Wagnerian proportions.

The Berlin Wall wasn't completely successful. Thousands of people still managed to cross it (Albeit with deaths as occurring as well).

Mainly while it was still in construction, but the number of successful escapees dropped abruptedly after all the concrete walls, watchtowers and no-go areas were in place. It could be said that the Antifaschistischer Schutzwall actually did what it was supposed to do.

[Lady Scylla]

And then I'm reminded people think like this

[The East Marches]

The Berlin Wall wasn't completely successful. Thousands of people still managed to cross it (Albeit with deaths as occurring as well).

People cross the Korean DMZ, heralded as the most armed border on the planet, all the time. Where there's a will, there's a way.

That doesn't mean there isn't utility in borders anyway. Its much easier to deal with one or two than say a 200,000 in a month.

[Gauthier]

And then I'm reminded people think like this

Because Liberal Elite Celebrities are so damn poor the ACA is the only thing keeping them alive. Yeeah.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

And then I'm reminded people think like this

Calling for death on twitter.

I'm happy to be in Canada. Away from all this noise.

[Patridam]

I don't know about you but i did hear a lot of "Rural > City" talk in the aftermath of the election.
Not saying you personally were involved in this but that's what i heard.

Also, Mexican Drug-Dealing Rapists, Radical Islam (without skateboarding), Dishonest Media...

What does any of that have to do with identity politics?

[Lady Scylla]

People cross the Korean DMZ, heralded as the most armed border on the planet, all the time. Where there's a will, there's a way.

That doesn't mean there isn't utility in borders anyway. Its much easier to deal with one or two than say a 200,000 in a month.

Which I'm not arguing against. Just that the solutions being applied to maintain such aren't always the best, nor most well thought out.

[Lady Scylla]

And then I'm reminded people think like this

Calling for death on twitter.

I'm happy to be in Canada. Away from all this noise.

Then you should enjoy the fact that one of the guys on my TS that's a massive Trump supporter and buys into the whole pizzagate bullshit is actually a Canadian.

[The East Marches]

That doesn't mean there isn't utility in borders anyway. Its much easier to deal with one or two than say a 200,000 in a month.

Which I'm not arguing against. Just that the solutions being applied to maintain such aren't always the best, nor most well thought out.

That is often the argument of open border advocates. "Why stop it if it doesn't work anyway?" I wrongly identified your position.

I would be interested to bring in the guys who designed the Turkish/Bulgarian border during the Cold War. They had a fairly low tech by highly effective system set up in a built up area.

[Lady Scylla]

Which I'm not arguing against. Just that the solutions being applied to maintain such aren't always the best, nor most well thought out.

That is often the argument of open border advocates. "Why stop it if it doesn't work anyway?" I wrongly identified your position.

I would be interested to bring in the guys who designed the Turkish/Bulgarian border during the Cold War. They had a fairly low tech by highly effective system set up in a built up area.

I've said it several times now.

I'm not familiar with such border, time to research!

[The East Marches]

That is often the argument of open border advocates. "Why stop it if it doesn't work anyway?" I wrongly identified your position.

I would be interested to bring in the guys who designed the Turkish/Bulgarian border during the Cold War. They had a fairly low tech by highly effective system set up in a built up area.

I've said it several times now.

I'm not familiar with such border, time to research!

For the record, its not the shitty fence they are now putting up. I will see if I can dig some photos I took of another guy's photos. The Turks are really open about their conscription days.

[Patridam]

And then I'm reminded people think like this

How does getting rid of a government program which already costs a lot of money cost more money?